I wasn't going to say anything, but thought you might like to know.  This is why I have a hard time reading anything you write or any of the forum posts.  This is an example of the ego-stroking i mentioned in a previous post; it does you no favors to compliment yourself in such a way.  There's a reason that Narcissus is a fable and not a fictional story. 

In reponse to my previous post, you asked for proof of my "accusations."  I wasnt going to bother, in fact I didnt bother responding, but this post jumped up and I have the time and patience to point it out right now.  If the design of the article is not yours, you did not mention that anywhere.  It does in fact look like you are taking credit for being a brilliant designer of the immaculate articles which other mortals could not possibly construe on their own.  While that is jumping in steps, given the image you already present to many in the vintage community, it is no more a step than saying that your own article was designed incredibly.  I really think you would be more successful if you ate some humble pie.

Extraneous apology is under consideration.  I fail to see why anybody would apologize for disagreeing or trying to shine light on a subject, but that's just me.  Please do not apologize to me if you wish to dissect my response; I welcome the criticisms.

Allow me to clarify what is being said as I understand it, as it seems a few people have msised the point entirely.


See, this is where the confusion comes into play.  If you play a deck with 4 of a single card, you are going to see that card in more games than if you played with 1 of them.  Logic/math/etc will tell you this.  This is not really debatable, and it is not the point.  The point that I see being made is that vintage is at a stage where it is "too broken" and that the fun factor diminishes significantly as the starting 7 restricted bombs lead to near 100% win chances. 

Now that your eyebrows are raised as fuzzy math, let me show you a couple examples of this happening.  The best example would be an opening trinisphere followed by a smokestack and crucible when your opponent has no force of will or other answer for any of the aforementioned cards.  In this case, you are helpless and the game is not fun.  Wasn't that the reason trinisphere was restricted in the first place?

Another example is a turn 1 kill taking 20 minutes and pretty much wasting everybody's time who bothered shuffling cards in the first place.  Don't get me wrong, it's cool to watch the first 20 times it happens but evnetually it gets old, right?  Can we agree that the seconds tick more slowly when your opponent builds up lethal storm before you make a land drop?  I realize that the probability of this happening is low, and I realize that by playing decks that do not pack 4 FOW I open myself up to these possibilities.  What amuses me is that decks that do not play 4 leyline open themselves up tot he same thing from ichorid and ichorid sees so much hate on these boards, but I digress.


Again, the point missing is that with both players having 80 card libraries the chances of this happening diminish significantly.  You are still 4 times as likely to start with that force of will as they are to start with that yawgwill which has won so many games with an opening 7.  What happens is with 80 card libraries they become diluted enough to foster other strategies being employed than sstalling until a lethal yawgwill can be played as will becomes harder and harder to find.  The best cards will probably still be the best cards, but your decisions on turns 1 through 3 will affect the game in turns 5 and 6 and beyond.  OMG, turn 6 in vintage?!  Seriously?!


It's not that I disagree, but as the boards are filled with stories of people leaving vintage and nobody is replacing their ranks, maybe its not a good idea to point people towards other formats? 

What is missing from most of these replies is addressing the "fun" factor.  I know that lots of people play the game specifically to win tournaments, and I feel sorry for people who cannot enjoy the game the way I do.  If I wanted hardcore tournament pro focus I would play type2, but I dont.  I enjoy the brokenness of type 1 to a certain extent, but I do believe that it is nearing a level which is dangerous to the preservation of the environment.  Honestly, the closer t1 gets to being coin-flip dependent, the closer I get to flipping quarters and using that money that would have gone into cardboard on something more interesting.

If type 1 becomes too broken, it will cease to be interesting.  If that isn't the point the OP is trying to make, then it's the point I'd like to make.

Actually this would kill several of the archetypes that run everything as a 1of, and I think that is the point of what is being said in the post above.  The point is that there are only 7 slots up for even borderline discussion in many decks and the idea is to raise that from 7 slots to 27 slots.  This means rethinking some strategies and by thinning out the percentage of broken plays you could actually revive other strategies that simply cannot function in the current metagame.

What this does is bust things wide open for new ideas and decks and that is always a good thing.  Everybody could say "oh but storm wont be playable anymore!" and those would be offset by the people that would no longer be "bored by the return to a previous metagame" which I have been reading about on these boards for some time.

This would actually allow the dci to unrestrict brainstorm and ponder and to take the unfairness of flash out of the equation.  The odds of the unfair busted "unbeatable" hands would go face down.

On aonther subject, I think that type1 has quite a few decks that are flat out not fun to play against.  Does anybody enjoy playing against ichorid turn 1?  How about walking into a counterwall for the first 5 turns that is incredibly consistent followed by a 20 minute yawgwill turn while I sit back and wonder if I should be spending money on women instead of cardboard (and yes I realize for some of you the two are one in the same).

Other unbearable situations include watching a combo player see if he can hit storm of 40 before playing the stupid tendrils in his hand or playing against 7 resolves spheres in the first 2 turns against a stax deck.  These are exaggerations but we have all been there.

By dilluting the availability of these cards we could make the format actually FUN again.  I think that adding 20 cards to the deck size would be met with resistance by most players simply because they would have to recalculate probabilities and learn new mana ratios, which is much like what happened with the restriction of brainstorm and ponder.

There are many many ideas which could shake up the format and make it more fun.  Why would adding cards not help in this endeavor?  And this isn't a call to secede from DCI or whatever, its just an idea being thrown out to make people think.

Arctic, could you do all of us a favor and list the cards which you would not consider "subpar" versus the cards that are "on par" or "good enough" to go in the open forum?  I would love to see a list and dissect it.  The idea of what is "good enough" to go on one forum or another has always been a little gray for me.  I would much appreciate if you could clear it up for those of us who lack the ability to categorize all cards and decks the first time we see them on paper.

Updates please!

It doesn't help to antagonize people you play against by asking if they want an autograph, or just general condescention.  Shit like that sticks, in fact its stuck enough to put me off ever buying a premium on scg.  The fact that youd see a penny my money if i bought a premium account is enough to turn off me.

It's no wonder you dont play on mws as smennen - I doubt half the people would accept you into a game anyway; at least I sure as hell would not.

And yes you come across as arrogant, pompous, condescending and in general alongside the vast majority of the vintage community, a touch elitist.  It's been a dicsussion ive had with many people who play vintage who i have met.

As long as I'm on the subject, I might as well branch it out to the reset of the TMD community.  There are rules on these forums that ideas do or do not belong on the opem forum, entire threads are moved becuase they lack substance and people are given warnings for not punctuating properly and then vroman posts a list using abbreviated terms referring to cards with no explanation for the deck other than it uses 4 bobs and 4 bazaars.  While I did run the deck on mws a few times, the fact is that much of the community even complained about lack of content yet it was never moved.  Then, somebody who is less known posts a tweak on an old deck (see:  keeper with welder & stars) and is crucified for it sucking.

To respond on this point, vroman received a moderation sanction for that post.  His first post in that thread was weak enough to justify it being moved to improvement, but by the time I saw the thread, it had gotten enough good replies that a productive discussion worthy of staying in Open had started.  -DA

What has kept me from going all-in back with vintage is not the lack of skill - it exists.  It is not the luck factor or the expense of the cards, it is the community.  I cannot stand that the game has turned into forums of people putting down unknowns when they praise others for posting piles of crap that make it into the open forum, or shit, even a paying article.

If flores is a pompous ass who feels he is above criticism, who believes anything he writes is gold and that condescending remarks and replies are the best way to answer questions people may raise about his deck, then yes smennen you are flores.

Just to end on a high note, much of what you do (in the articles that are free) is valuable and i can see its value.  The fact of the matter is that if the messenger is a douchebag, the message is lost. 

This is what is wrong with TMD and type1 in general.  If you are not one of the well-known elites who netdecks everything and places in tournaments, you have no say.  In fact, I remember beating the hell out of the "metadecks" of the time with an RG build where a resolved magus was GG against the field on mws.  I would have people leave screaming noob nobody plays that card and then I'd read TMD about how nobody can play that card, that card sucks that card cant work and all the sudden omg vintage is stagnant.  Then the only person with the "juice" to innovate and have said innovations reach the community is a pompous ass, and then we all wonder why vintage is stagnant?

Everybody needs to pull their heads out of their asses.  Steve, if somehow this penetrates into your brain and you take any of it to heart, then perhaps your audience would be bigger and more willing to pay for premiums.

If not, I'll save my pennies and just play t2... just not with cards bought from scg.

Well in the new build you use against stax, you might wanna consider throwing in a black lotus

If mindlock orb sees lots of play, Cunning Wish may find its way into decks as a solution to resolved threats.  This card fits nicely into a wish sb.  As a 1of you do not have the fear of flipping more over while reloading a hand.

So does SSG and in the mid/late game it doubles as a 2/2 beater.

I find this funny as personal tutor as a 4of can be found rather reliably.

Tinker => Colossus is pretty devistating, followed by a Time Walk it can be good game.  Throw the potential to find Regrowth or Recoup or Will to follow up the walk and you're in good shape.

Here's what I'm reading:
"Leyline of Lifeforce"
Info:  Color = Green     Type = Enchantment           Cost = 2GG       Edition =  Guildpact (GP)

Errata:  If Leyline of Lifeforce is in your opening hand, you may begin the game with it in play. ; Creature spells can't be countered.


Nowhere does it say:  "Creature spells you play cannot be countered." 
All creature spells would fall under this category.  Your opponent gains the same advantages.

If I'm wrong would somebody please point out why?

It seems to me like this card actually negates Nether Void for creatures, meaning aggro will likely run you over.

Unless MWS is lying to me, Leyline of Lifeforce is not one sided - their creatures are also voidproof.  As an aside, why is leyline better than Vexing Shusher?

Funny, because when crusher first came out i thought...

Land tax + scroll rack + countryside crusher = giant growth + draw more cards + gruntfood

Although, I guess it does force you to run basics.  Maybe loam would be better alongside bazaars.  But that land tax combo gets you the benefits this turn, and it is not GY dependent.

I think the legal term is "bait and switch" and it has been on the books for ages.

Just because SCG reserves that right does not mean they have that right in the first place; i cannot hang a sign on my resturant that says "we refuse the right to refuse service to black people."

They are completely screwed if you go after them.

legal costs would be more than 80 bucks but the same would be true for them, not to mention the bad publicity they're already getting here.  This is horrible business practice and you should keep them honest for the sake of other people who might want to buy any cards from them.  Same goes for CCGHouse.

How funny... I work for ESRI.

Yet I have no idea what the system requirements are, or if you are even using our brand.

PM me if you're using ESRI software and want me to poke around for requirements for you, I need to know which software and what version you'll need me to look up for you.  But do it tonight, I have no TMD access at work.

All DELL hardware is proprietary.  You cannot take it to the local shop to get it replaced - its either them or nothing, and you'll find it needs to be repaired often.

This is the second DELL I have bought and the first one's power supply basically crapped out on me randomly.  It did not even want to start up for months then pulled a jesus and started working again, but it's been sidelined because the battery life sucks.

The most common problems with laptops has to do with the power charger - if the connection isnt secure or the power cable is heavy, it will push the holster for the power cable out of place.  All of the laptops I have used for a prolonged period (DELL and HP) have run into this problem.

I would recommend staying away from DELL and HP because they tend to break often.  Anything you get will do what you're asking of it, provided the video editing is not insane.  I'd also suggest you get an internal wireless card if you plan on using wireless - the external (usb) ones are TERRIBLE and the notebook slot cards tend to break, not to mention both make the laptop bigger while they are inside it.

It would force them to either sacrifice their lands or lose the creatures to the Tabernacle and then sacrifice their lands.  With the way the Tabernacle interacts with Smokestack, you can sacrifice creatures to Smokestack without paying for the Tabernacle which means your mana remains unmolested.

Okay, here's the working list that hasn't really been modified since RIGHT after the b&r announcements:

// lands - 18
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
5 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea

// dudes - 13
4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Mistblade Shinobi

// brown - 9
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Chalice of the Void

// Additional Counter - 10
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Annul (shop/oath heavy meta, Annul beat out Spell Snare which hits bobs now)

// Rest - 10
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Standstill
4 Bitterblossom
1 Time Walk

SB:
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Echoing Truth
4 Energy Flux
4 Leyline of the Void (I never liked this in this slot)
1 Rebuild
2 Hurkyl's Recall

This deck has not been touched since RIGHT after the restrictions and before the new meta was setup, the Annul is strong against the deck's two worst matchups at the time:  oath and shops.  The ichorid plan would be to find leyline and guard it, or use E truth to bounce stuff (or leyline to jitte your own creature and nuke their bridges)

There were lots of possibilities, the Sb is definitely not optimal.  This deck slows the game down in the same way Landstill does, and has a fuckton of counters.  Jitte was added to handle the board control, and usually ended the game quickly because a 5/5 flyer every turn is pretty hard to deal with.

Factory was included instead of Mutavault becuase the additional faerie for SpellStutter Sprite was not worth the extra mana, whereas the 3/3 body was very useful for killing creatures (even Juggernaut!)

With drains running around everywhere, I do not know how I would modify this list but I would definitely start here.  Much of the deck may raise an eyebrow, but this is fine-tuned to match my playstyle in a meta where combo meant gushbond.

Good luck!

I control a The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale:
"The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale"
Info:  Color = Land      Type = Legendary Land        Cost = None       Edition =  Legends (LG)
Errata:  All creatures have "At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice this creature unless you pay ." 

and a Smokestack
"Smokestack"
Info:  Color = Artifact  Type = Artifact              Cost = 4       Edition =  Urza's Saga (US)
Errata:  At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a soot counter on Smokestack. ; At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player sacrifices a permanent for each soot counter on Smokestack. [Oracle 1999/05/01]

with 2 soot counters on it.

Can I stack the effects so that the Tabernacle resolves before the smokestack on my opponent's upkeep?  My initial thought is no because the upkeep ability is given to their creatures (static) and triggered at beginning of upkeep (APNAP) so therefore it is my opponent's ability to stack as he sees fit, meaning my Smokestack would resolve before the Tabernacle.  Could anybody verify this for me?

A more control-oriented approach was tried on this thread:  http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=35407

You may want to consider the following:

1) if your #1 goal is to resolve standstill, you want reactive countermagic, not proactive disruption.  Drawing Duress and Thoughtseize is terrible when StandStill is on the board.
2)  you DEFINITELY want Force of Will.  Perhaps I did not see it in the list but I believe its missing.
3)  the deck has almost no game vs shops.  The null rods will help but the mana curve is so high that Sprite turns into an overcosted 1/1 with instant abilities.
4)  Bitterblossom is a nightmare if your opponent drops oath the next turn.  The card is insane when it gets going, dont get me wrong, but you want to make sure you can stop your opponent from winning on one insane turn which is normally what people try to do when Standstill is on the table. 

If you PM me I will send you the list we came up with, I would post it here but I have to get to work   It was developed for the meta before the b&r list and really didnt lose a whole lot when blue was restricted, but with shops and ichorid expected everywhere, it definitely lost some of its potency.

Note that Djinn Illuminatus *cannot* create infinite mana with Dark Ritual becuase the replicate costs must be paid at [del]hte[/del] the time the spell is cast - not upon its resolution.  Therefore you cannot use the mana it creates to replicate its effect - I thought the same thing once upon a time but this is a very real limitation.  Hightide is interesting - another consideration is that copies of the spell with replicate are never "played" but placed on the stack the same way storm [del]cards[/del] copies are placed on the stack.  This means that you cannot resolve a Djinn Illuminatus and play a lone Dark Ritual and replicate it x times to get X copies of Tendrils to hit your opponent in the head.  Djinn Illuminatus is OBSCENE with Regrowth + Time Walk though.  2GG grabs your Time Walk and also finds your Regrowth (because it *should* be in the graveyard in its final stage of resolution - right?  I may be mistaken here)  If not, you can something like Recollect to do the same thing (it will also bring back dark rituals to generate massive mana using this strategy).

Edit (and above marked with the del tag):
Of course another infinite Time Walk strategy is to use Spellweaver Helix with Time Walk and Recoup - intuition is your best firend in this scenario.

Happy tinkering with the Djinn - one other thing you might want to consider if you want to go that route is Show and Tell.  It's pretty strong against anything but Yawgmoth's Bargain or the ever-annoying Duplicant/Stingscourger.

3 Trinket Mage + 4 Stfile + 0 Dreadnought = wtf?

Edit:  My bad... one in the trinkets section, not the dudes section.  Odd.
Note to self:  read entire decklist as other people may distribute cards differently than expected. 

Well
Magic is a collectable cad game - the value of collectables has to hold.  If they reduce the value of collectable they lose their credibility as a collectable item.  This in turn acts as another roadblock to bringing in new customers.  You can add this to the impact it would have on the community that already owns the cards - if the cards lose value altogether then how confidant would the players who lost that value be in purchasing future cards?  The great thing about magic has been that you can dump money into cards (especially power) and use them and pretty much get back what you paid for them when you're ready to stop playing.  Threaten to take that away and you give people a good reason not to get involved in the format in the first place.


The number of cards put into circulation is something for r&d to digest - I don't pretend to know what the metrics are for how many players can make zero-proxy vintage decks but my guess is that the number is small enough to be a major factor in the obvious lack of sanctioned T1 events.  Perhaps a TMD poll could be setup to get this data if it is necessary?  I saw a poll on a recent thread regarding whether or not to use the b&r list in a tournament.  This would collect data from people already involved in the community and give an idea to how lacking these cards really are in the first place.

And, while the skilled players would obviously have the greatest chance of acquiring these cards, there would also be a huge number of casual players who had the same shot at it - and the prize would hold value if they were legitimate reprints of the original cards.  If a pro player won the cards and was not interested in becoming active in vintage, or already owned the cards, he would most likely sell the winnings to make it available for somebody looking to break into the vintage scene.  It would turn that card he already owns into one more vintage player or make one more vintage player closer to being able to play in zero-proxy events which in the long run is good for the community.

The whole point is that the secondary market is important as long as Wizards claims that MTG is a "collectable" card game.  And that the reprints would have to bring a profit to them.  It seems like rewarding participation in environments that are the bread and butter of their profits would solves this problem, and without flooding the secondary market, prizes seems like the best way to keep the numbers down.  AND you can cycle through the cards so that there will always be a path for the casual players to get into T1 by using T2 as a springboard.  Seems like it would be good for the health of all formats.  And the demand is already high enough for these cards that players who did not want to spring into T1 could sell the cards and get a huge number of T2 staples.

I'm still looking for the downside.

The problem is that a set of reprints will have the one of the two following impacts: 
1) it will drive the secondary market prices down due to influx of large numbers of cards
--OR--
2) if the limited edition is not printed in abundance then it will have limited profit potential for Wizards. 

Either way, there is a price to pay by Wizards because they either:
1) neuter the value of older cards and therefore neutering the idea of cards holding any long-term value which currently only happens in eternal formats and particularly with the cards that we would like reprinted
--OR--
2) makes so little money that reprinting this set is hardly worth it.

Handing out the cards as prizes for participation in sets that are already in print seems like it would drive up their profits by selling more packs and it would open more people up to playing all formats.  This also saves them the trouble of worrying about a newly printed set being legal in Standard because they could simply say that these promotional tournament prizes are not T2 legal.

Also you are forgetting that not all players will gravitate towards trying to acquire beta pieces.  Personally, I would rather have a set of cards that were in NM/M condition becuase to my mind they would have a longer shelf life (we have all had cards that look like they go old on us, even if they arent in use) as opposed to looking for a beta piece.  I actually think that the reprints, if they are only able to be acquired by winning tournaments and such, might even be worth more than the original beta pieces.  Note that they could print T1 staples in rotations and that over time there would be a large number of promotional prints that were seperate from each other:  you could start with printing ancestral and lotus as the first place prizes for the next set release, then move onto moxes and forces and on and on (not necessarily those pairings) but after you've gone through a whole rotation you could start over again and keep this tournament reward as a prize for a long-term profitable busnessplan because to have a chance to win these pieces you would have to win a Standard event which keeps people buying cards without neutering the prices in secondary markets.

If Wizards were to make these cards finite but able on request from shopowners, my guess is that you would see tournament numbers skyrocket which would also encourage more people to participate and not be restricted to limited tournament opportunities and might even bring in new markets.  It would show that they are really pushing for this thing and that the cash value of the prizes could be enormous.

As far as the long-term investment of out of print staples, the demand for those might go down slightly and they may lose value.  However, if the process works and you drive more people into the T1 community the demand for such pieces would likely go up and they would regain their value if not soar afterwards.  Think of it in terms as giving up some of the equity in the cards with the hope that they would go up even higher.  And most people I know who own vintage staples would lose 50 dollars on each of their power pieces if it meant there would be more tournaments.

If Wizards announced that this was going to be their new policy a few months ahead of actually going through with it (like say, before the release of the next set) then those worried about value of their pieces would have a few months to unload them. 

Note that this process would bring more pieces to the community and allow for more sanctioned T1 events that did not require proxies - this is something the DCI could get behind.  It seems to be winning on just about every front - if anybody sees any flaws in my reasoning PLEASE tell me because I'm typing this thinking that I'm some kind of genius.  Maybe I should email this to Wizards R&D and see what they say.

Well, this *might* be what you are suggesting but let me take a crack at this -

The reprinting of the "promotional" cards would fit into their business plan if these cards were rewarded for <del>participation</del> winning in sanctioned <del> zero-proxy </del> T2  events; vintage players who wish to get ahold of these promotional cards MUST participate in a T2 format with legitimate cards that could still be purchased off the shelves of a local shop.  Wizards could print a finite amount (say, 1000 of each?) and sell them to shops who would use these specifically for prizes in sanctioned events.

If the availability of these cards is low due to a finite number bring printed and they are legal in sanctioned vintage tournaments, they might actually be more valuable than the original cards.  Wizards could actually do this for the entire P9 series over the release of the next 9 sets (~ 3 years, right?  I don't keep up with how often new sets come out).  This of course could be applied to reprinting multiple vintage staples (FOW, duals, etc) and given out as prizes to persons placing 2-4 or 2-8 (depending on value of the original card).

This would have the following effects:
1)  Push T1 players into other formats.  I have seen many arguments that T1 players tend to have more disposable income than the average player in other formats - this would help push some people who would normally deal only in the secondary market into buying cards that are actually T2 legal and making money for Wizards right now.

2)  Promote participation in T1.  Many people look at T1 and go "wow that entry barrier is INSANE" even though it is cheaper than Standard (after a full rotation, at least thats my opinion) because vintage is a one-time investment.  More insane restrictions aside, printing cards that will forever be restricted (moxes, lotus, ancestral and yawgwill all come to mind) given out as first-place tournament prizes seems to benefit everybody.

I realize that the counterargument would be that these prints would neuter the current value of vintage staples - I argue that a limited number (maybe 1000 isn't the right number, I don't know) would mean that the market would not be flooded with a plethora of new cards; rather the newer cards (especially if they are foils) might even have a chance of being more expensive than the originals.  The benefit would be that these new players would have an incentive to play T1 and keep the demand on the original pieces just as high.

This is of course all based on the honesty of the middlemen between Wizards and the players are honest with their use of the cards as tournament prizes; however if they are restricted to being used EXCLUSIVELY as prizes for sanctioned T2 tournaments then Wizards could rather easily keep track of these things.  This seems like it could make money for everybody as people will pay obscene amounts of money for a chance to play for power already - and T2 players who are not at all interested in getting involved with T1 could sell that foil vintage-legal lotus for enough money to pay for their T2 addiction for the next year or two.  Everybody wins - talk about incentive!

I dont see a yawgwill and flash is nerfed.  Unless you're expecting academy rectors or something equally problematic, planar void is a lot better than leyline.  That way you can cast them as you draw them too.  I guess if Ichorid gets stuff in the yard turn 1 (3 cards max, usually with bazaar) but if you mull into planar void the same way that you would mull into leyline you are only susceptable to the first turn unmask in general.

This of course excludes mana ichorid, but that's one matchup and it turns dead cards into castable, redundant threats.

In my testing with RG and Rx I have always seen its major weaknesses to be fast combo and Oath.  When Painter's Servant was first printed, I thought it fit perfectly into a TMWA shell and it seems like vroman had a similar idea with a RBW shell.  I just stuck to RB with painter's servant and 7 blasts - painter seems to run over Oath and 8 blasts seemed to do lots of damage to combo (especially after painter hit).

I know it seems like it takes the deck in a different direction but would a RB shell that instead of beats for a win used painter/stone as a win condition be better?  It seems to take bad matchups and make them better.  This is the list I was testing pre-restrictions - obviously much of it has to change but I had great luck against some of the more dominant archetypes for a while:

Lands: 17
4x Swamp
4x Mountain
2x Polluted Delta
3x Badlands
4x Bloodstained Mire

Creatures:  11
3x Magus of the Moon
4x Painter's Servant
4x Dark Confidant

Spells:  32
// win
3x Grindstone

// disruption
3x Duress
3x Thoughtseize
4x Red Elemental Blast
3x Pyroblast
4x Chains of Mephistopheles (MVP)
1x Extirpate (meta call)

// utility and tutoring
1x Yawgwill (weak in this build - also debatable)
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Iimperial Seal
1x Demonic Consultation

// Acceleration
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Lotus Petal


This deck was crushing everything.  Yawgwill is weakened by the demonic consultation, but EOT finding a grindstone usually says GG.  The sb included artifact hate mostly because chalice @ 1 makes me a sad panda (and a dead one at that) and the deck was too early in development to really know what else it needed besides that.  The chains WRECKED the gushbond engine and the 7 blasts usually meant it was going to stick around.  Of course now that blue has been nuked, my chains are nowhere near as strong as they were just a week ago

Anyway, older TMWA builds used to run 8 blasts as a sb plan back in the olden days, at least some versions I played against did.  I don't see any reason to not incorporate them if it solves a HUGE weakness, although naming blue is dangerous as it improves both FOW and MISD.  I realize that not every deck is going to be running blue in the new meta (or so people think) so the blasts may seem weaker, however the blasts are still going to be strong and painter's servant just makes them ridiculous.  Just my two cents.

I think all the decks would have to be made beforehand by the shop for this to work.  This takes out all the games of people bringing anything.  Does anybody want to play with my deck that makes use of 3 kjeldoran royal guard and 4 floating shield?  No?  Oh well.  I guess tendrils would have a field day.

I see your point though.  The format actually sound REALLY fun and I would love to participate in something like that.  If it was unlimited proxy and decks were built specifically for the tournament to be equally powered and the distribution was completely random, I think it would be fun.  If you are suggesting that players bring a proxied deck to the tournament to be added to a pool of decks, then you would have problems.

Anything to take away the high price of getting into the format and participating in events would have my thumbs up!

Anybody can get into the "Standard Scene" by buying packs of Shadowmoor.  You can see what you rip for your 4 bucks and put them together and make something that's legal in their format.

I've yet to rip a lotus/mox/drain/etc out of a booster pack.  I somehow doubt it will ever happen.  To play T1, you have to buy singles.  You dont buy packs, there's rarely any "luck" in what you might get out of a booster pack  as a T1 player.  You snipe individual cards, and I can't speak for anybody else, but after playing T1 the other formats bore me.  In general it's too slow and there's never that inevitable topdeck that will get them out of a nasty situation.  In fact the brokenness of T1 is the reason I choose to play it.  Most of the few cards that I have left aren't even T1 playables but still I choose to pay attention to what's going on in T1 because I find it more fun.

I think that the major difference is that a player who plays predominantly Standard will see a new set and buy booster packs to get staples for the format.  T1 players will see a new set and pick a few cards to snipe from it - case and point would be vroman's predictions stated in another thread.  The rest of the set is more or less worthless in a (competitive) T1 deck.  Net effect - people buying booster packs find that there is nothing within the sets that can make them competitive in a T1 environment.  Instead of buying boosters, they have to search ebay or any of the online stores for singles just to stay competitive - staples which in playsets cost more than an entire box of boosters of the newest set (and this is byepassing power and duals altogehter).

I hate to say it, but I really think that the only way to incite massive interest in T1 would be to reprint all the broken cards so that the gaps between the formats would shrink.  Would you rather spend 50 dollars for 2/3 of a box of cards or a playset of cards only playable in T1?  While it is true that T1 is actually cheaper (over time) than T2 to play, people would rather spend that small amount of money getting boxes of the new set and being able to play T2 than they would saving the money over a long period of time to get staples for the least common format.

I know that the cost of cards is prohibitive enough where I will not attend local tournaments unless they are unlimited proxy.  Even then, it's pretty lame to play a deck with 75 islands and a dead sharpie.

Add to this the fact T1 tournaments are much more scarce than other tournaments and you run into this chicken-and-egg situation.  If there arent any T1 tournaments, nobody will buy T1 cards.  If nobody is buying T1 cards, shops wont host T1 tournaments.

I don't see this changing anytime soon.

If you use the Oona kill in response to Flash they will have no library left to use hulk to grab their win conditions.  There is no reason to let them grab all of their pieces if you're using necromancy.  Don't forget they can win with the Reveillark killi n response to your attempt at trying to combo.