Sounds like a good plan. The setup will leave you vulnerable to wasteland, but I guess that can´t be helped.

I´ve been wondering about the value of Time Walk in this deck. Its worth probably lies in the extra land drop it allows, but with such a light land base, does that come up enough to warrant its inclusion over another cantrip like, for instance, Gitaxian Probe? I guess you'll often need the extra land drop to be able to cast Doomsday.

Also, how often you you find yourself unable to cast Doomsday at all after having one or multiple of your Underground Seas wasted?

I was joking. I can see the smiley looks a bit mean though. I actually tried buying your latest, but paypal didnt work.
Ill keep on trying at the solution. Good luck to people trying to solve this kind of puzzle during a tournament!

So I paid for your sh*tty articles, and now you are making fun of me? Lol, can't wait for the next one

I figured as much, as i couldnt find a winning doomsday pile. Chalice @0 becomes inevitable, and without the ability to play 0 mana artifacts it seems impossible to produce enough mana to play maniac next turn. Fastbond costs 1, and you only have so many lands to fool around with, even with gush involved. Your land being a fetch messes up some possibilities, too.

So i guess that leaves picking a chalice, countering the other and building a pile with plenty of mana to cope with the pile of sphere effects that will follow. If they draw another chalice, that might prove to be problematic because they could play it @ 3.

So when is the podcast due?

I bought the doomsday combo platter last week. I liked most of it, except a couple of spelling mistakes, and the tournament report could have been more in depth. Perhaps you should take more notes during play ,or have some one tape your games, Stephen?

Ive been trying hard at the workshop puzzle. So far I didnt get further than concluding lotus is the right pick with thoughtseize. Im still trying to build a doomsday pile that'll allow me to win with chalice @ 0 in play. Any one solve it yet?

2 Thrun in play would be impressive, indeed.

Isbthe lab maniac oath list available?

If you happen to be on double black, I think Withered Wretch is a pretty good answer to Snapcaster, too. For green, Scavenging Ooze.

Torpor Orb actually doesnt stop Mage entirely; it just stops the CITP trigger, but doenst remove the 2/1 body.

It's too bad Yixlid Jailer's static ability doesn't nullify the CIPT trigger. That way, you'd have been able to stop the ability and trade bodies.

So now that we've established Snapcaster is quite good, what do you guys think are the best ways of fighting him? Cards that remove the spell in the graveyard still leave you facing a 2/1 beater. Removing the beater after it hit the battlefield will not prevent your opponent casting an important instant or sorcery from the graveyard. So I guess countering mr. Snaps is the best way?

Counters
REB/Pyro
Spell Snare


Creature Removal
Fire/Ice
Darkblast
Lose Hope
Piracy Charm (also quite a good target for Snapcaster itself)

Graveyard Removal
Leyline of the Void
Coffin Purge
Ground Seal
Tormod's Crypt
Extirpate

Do you guys know any spells that arent counterspells that'll take care of Snapcaster entirely?

On a side note: Echoing truth should probably be in most decks running multiple mages. Beware of opponents responding by casting their own mages, though!

Given the importance of protecting maniac, how about good old misdirection?

Another thought to make the deck less vulnerable to StP; how about including a single Living Wish? It'll allow you to fetch Laboratory Maniac from your sideboard in case it gets removed. In other caes, it'll fetch utility creatures like Divining Witch or Sacred Guide, or utility lands.

How do you like this sideboard card? This probably doesn't belong in Oath, but I'd like to talk about it any way.
Volcanic Spray

1R
Sorcery

Volcanic Spray deals 1 damage to each creature without flying and each player.
Flashback 1R (You may play this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then remove it from the game.)

I don't think I would ever cut mystical because I really like tutoring for Time Walk. I'll give Y's Will a try though, cutting a Chalice.

A small comment huh? If this is such an obvious point, how is this not huge?

So you think the win should be included. Do you mean in every kind of Oath? How about my build, for instance?

  Black Lotus
4  Polluted Delta
1  Flooded Strand
1  Lotus Petal
1  Mox Emerald
1  Mox Jet
1  Mox Sapphire
2  Underground Sea
2  Tropical Island
1  Snow-Covered Island
1  Island
1  Swamp
4  Forbidden Orchard

  

The Win

1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
4 Oath of Druids

 Protection

4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Mana Leak
4 Duress
1 Echoing Truth

Draw/Tutor/Utility

4  Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Crop Rotation
1 Gaea's Blessing
  
Hate    

2 Null Rod
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
  
Sideboard

1 Simic Sky Swallower
1 Tinker
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Massacre
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Echoing Decay
1 Stifle
1 Pithing Needle
1 Trickbind
1 Oxidize
1 Naturalize
1 Darkblast

(lately I did this to the maindeck: -1 duress, +1 repeal).


What should I cut?

This sounds weird to me. I would have said that because the resolution of gamekeeper's ability is one action, you'd have to complete it entirely and then check for triggered abilities.

As far as I can tell the wording is different just because gamekeeper can affect only its controller. I don't think it was meant to work differently.

So I tried to a creature with my Kiki-Jiki Mirror Breaker, and my opponent responded with Echoing Truth on that creature.

Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker 2RRR
Legendary Creature - Goblin Shaman       

Haste. Tap: Put a token into play that's a copy of target nonlegendary creature you control.  That creature token has haste.  Sacrifice it at end of turn.

2/2


Q: do I still get a copy?

Indeed it doesn't. My comments werent meant to keep you from sharing your thoughts on Oath.

Got a good sideboard in mind?

On fish having less dead cards: sure, those creatures you can play at any time, but their abilities will be dead some of the time and they kill so much slower that I wouldn't say Fish is  that better off than Oath dead card wise.

Just thought combo Oath players might enjoy reading this

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/af39

Control Oath huh? My build is more of a tempo Oath. How do you justify playing Oath as a control heavy deck when Gifts is around as an alternative? Is it just that Oath isn''t bothered by graveyard hate?

Also, I tested Razia/Akroma but in practice it never killed in two turns, so I decided for me the Dragon is better (MWSplay isn't a meta where opponents deal themselves 2 that often. Annoying creatures run rampant, though).

Fish do...

Hi guys! I love discussing oath as it's the deck I've been playing on MWS over the last couple of weeks.

In building my own deck, I was inspired by this list.

Christian Schäfer

Hate-Oath

4x Oath of Druids
1x Gaea's Blessing
1x Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1x Razia, Boros Archangel
1x Crop Rotation
4x Force of Will
4x Mana Drain
4x Brainstorm
3x Duress
2x Null Rod
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Polluted Delta
2x Underground Sea
4x Forbidden Orchard
2x Tropical Island
2x Wasteland
2x Island
1x Strip Mine
1x Tolarian Academy
1x Swamp
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Emerald
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric tutor
1x Mind Twist
1x Time Walk
1x Ancestral Recall
2x Misdirection
1x Echoing Truth
1x Thirst for Knowledge

Sideboard:

3x Ley-Line of the Void
2x Massacre
1x Simic Sky Swallower
1x Duplicant
3x Energy Flux
2x Pernicious Deed
2x Extract
1x Trickbind


(which came from http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=31638.0).

What I'm currently running is this:



Mana

1  Black Lotus
4  Polluted Delta
1  Flooded Strand
1  Lotus Petal
1  Mox Emerald
1  Mox Jet
1  Mox Sapphire
2  Underground Sea
2  Tropical Island
1  Snow-Covered Island
1  Island
1  Swamp
4  Forbidden Orchard

   

The Win

1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
4 Oath of Druids

 Protection

4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Mana Leak
4 Duress
1 Echoing Truth

Draw/Tutor/Utility

4  Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Crop Rotation
1 Gaea's Blessing
   
Hate   

2 Null Rod
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
   
Sideboard

1 Simic Sky Swallower
1 Tinker
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Massacre
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Echoing Decay
1 Stifle
1 Pithing Needle
1 Trickbind
1 Oxidize
1 Naturalize
1 Darkblast


I'm not running the off color moxen, because I don't like getting stuck under my own chalice (0) or null rod. Lotus petal is there though, because I do like getting the right color of mana. Not having the full set of moxen is one reason for me not to include Academy, aswell as not having a thing to spend blue mana on late game except for FoW's and hardcasting critters...

I've fallen in love with the Bogardan Hellkite main. So far I have not lost a game when I got to Oath... this did have something to do with killing Confidants once in a while...  A maindeck copy of Darkblast might give the Oath player with the ability to do this but the Darkblast could get countered...

As you can see, I don't like mana drain. 'Double blue I often don't have or it forces me to make too many orchard tokens. There's nothing to sink that mana into any way.

4 Duress have been so good to me, as have the Wastes...

Sideboard could use some help... What can come out of the maindeck, and which cards would be good in the sideboard to combat the Stax players I've lately been encountering in large numbers on MWS?

one of my favorite wish targets is mogg salvage. you might want to give that a try aswell.

Eternal witness is another way to get Y's will back into your hand and has a bit more flexibility. Granted, it's slow.

Getting a date to the prom is the hardest thing in the world? I'm intrigued by this comment and I'd like to hear the entire story of your girl problems. Please? 

Ophidian good in a fish environment? Wouldnt you be better of with a couple of swords of fire and ice?

How is this much better than sapphire medailion?

For those of you who don't like the Colossus kill; is DSC something you might put in your sideboard or remove from your deck altogether? If so, you also might not need the clunky Recoup. Perhaps when doing so, you could substitue the Colossus with Memory Jar or Sundering Titan, or  even go without Tinker. (Although not playing Tinker sounds wrong to me.)

Could Daze possibly fulfill the same role Misdirection does? When you're on the play I could see it being the better card; freeing up an entire (blue business) card in your hand (which you won't have to pitch) would lead to a higher probability of a first turn kill. A large part of the business card in this deck are non blue though, and when your opponent has got mana Daze gets kind of silly. It also forces you to fetch U-Sea every time and the returning the land part would hurt you trying to go off on later turns. I was just wandering if it was ever considered. (If daze would get popular in first turn kill decks, I imagine so would ESG.  :lol:) 

Maindeck Brainfreeze? Hm, it is blue and therefore easier to cast and pitchable. Does require a high storm count aswell though, and is a dead card versus most decks. If the entire meta becomes storm running it main might not even be such a bad idea . In the sideboard though Grapeshot being a sorcery and doubling as creature removal have to be taken into account.



How about this new card? I'd say at 2(U)(U)(U) there's more interesting things to do in this format. Control is the matchup it might be useful in, and there's probably better/more versatile sideboard cards against control. Anybody got good ideas for using this card?

Would this be the right thread to discuss Grapeshot?

Grapeshot (1)(R)
Sorcery 
Grapeshot deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
Storm (When you play this spell, copy it for each spell played before it this turn. You may choose new targets for the copies.)
Mages often seek to emulate the powerful relics lost to time and apocalypse.
Illus. Pete Venters
#160/301


Let's see how useful this card might be in vintage.
The first thing to examine is whether this might actually be a better finisher than Tendrils of Agony.

Things it has over ToA: (yes these are rather obvious).
-Converted mana cost of 2 instead of 4
-Requiring only one colored mana instead of two
-Requires red mana instead of black. This is not very useful in ritual decks, but it just might be in Gifts variants. After using Will to get a high storm count it might be easier to get red mana to cast the finisher. (Not saying I'm positive on this).
-Can target creatures, making this less of a dead card. Using this as creature removal often might require you to run more copies though...

Thing ToA has over this:

-Requires a lower storm count to do 20. Two copies of Grapeshot will kill at the same storm count though, for the same converted cc.
-Lifegain might be more useful than creature removal. When you've got a low storm count I could see Grapeshot being more useful, removing creatures giving you more turns to breathe than a low amount of life. You'll be more in need of those turns though, as it will be harder to actually kill your opponent using just Grapeshot(s). (When using Yawgmoth's Bargain the lifegain definately wins out here.)

I think as a main deck kill card ToA definately wins out. (Some) modern long decks not running red any more and I imagine they won't want to go back to running red just for multiples of these, because you'd need multiples.

As a sideboard card though, Grapeshot might actually be worthy. Not getting shut down by a Meddling Mage chanting Tendrils sounds nice, it's kind of wishable (granted you'll need double red) and costs two mana only. I can see this as an alternative combo kill for Gifts variants. Now that Time Spiral has brought us Wipe Away, your DSC might not be able to get in two hits. Why not use this baybe to do the second one at a nice mana cost, or just be wishable creature removal.

I think it'd be wise to at least test it in Gifts sideboards, I suggest instead of the second copy of Pyroclasm that's usually there.

How does Dark Confidant, in your opinion, compare to other card drawing creatures, like Ophidian, Shadowmage Infiltrator and Dimir Cutpurse. Obviously you prefer Dark Confidant, but on what grounds? Is mana cost the main issue or is the fact you don't have to turn it sideways its main advantage?