I was at the event he assaulted the player at.  He has a 10 year for sure.  My friend was the judge who sent the ban through.  Somehow, he has a physical store now.  Too bad no one who knows anything in Chicago will go there...

I did, he  was my only loss in swiss

Colin,

The Judge was my friend telling me I needed to go do my interview.   I am sure people were making comments, but none of them were sitting there getting type 1'd out. 

I have had more time to soak it in and calm down about it.  You were a rough matchup, and I feel like it's winnable, but not that day.  That day, you had the better deck and the better draws, and nice job on the top 2.   Ask about anyone, and they will tel you that's the first meltdown I've had in years.  I am usually better at taking losses, including my only other loss to Itou in round 3, to which I just signed my slip and said, well, I go x-0 from here...   I was on tilt that day from listening to friends bitch about how bad their day was going, and let it all get to me at the wrong moment.  I was wrong.   I'm not apologizing, but I will admit I should have been a better loser that day, and taken the making top 8 with that deck as good enough for the day.   I would hope we can move from this and hope you'd get to know me as the decent guy I usually am at events, and not the person I was at the end of that match.



And in response to the me feeling I had a solid chance... If he didn't drain the rod in game 3, he's stuck with 4 artifacts, a hurkyl's and not enough storm count to get there when I was holding teeg and cannonist in hand...  Should I have lost 0-2, yes, but I was given a chance, but the type 1 gods took it quickly giving him a very nice hand

yes, I was upset, but not to the point that a judge had to pull me aside.

Yes, I know it's type 1, that stuff happens, but honestly, after watching you punt game 2, I thought I would have a solid chance because I thought you were a bad combo player to make that grievous of an error in the top 8.

I ranted, I was upset, it happens.  I am not going to apologize for being upset, and feeling you were a bad player when you made that obvious of a bad play and let me win the game.

However, congrats on the day, but don't make it more than it is, I walked off on my own to get my prize and leave, there wasn't a judge involved with removing me, so don't start shit like that.

Donovan

I wasn't going to post, but after reading the whole thread, I will.

My name is John Donovan, I have hosted and ran MANY successful vintage events in the Chicago area, including as the TO for the last major P9 Weekend in Chicago ran concurrently with Star City Games.  I want everyone to know who I am, and that I am talking with a relevant amount of experience here.

First, as for the comments about the staff...  Remember that decisions that a staff make are usually in the sake of time.  If you weren't signed up for an event on time, you and your friend deserve to play each other for not doing your part as a player ahead of time.  
       At the same time, there was an instance that involved a close friend of mine who was not allowed to play in the extended side event because he missed registration.  The event was the previously mentioned side that was severely delayed in start time, and they weren't allowing preregistration.  We were told by the people at the desk that they would ANNOUNCE sign-ups, which never happened.  So it was quite a shock to find out that not only had registration closed, but the event was already starting.  We were VERY frustrated, and brought it to the sign up area, but received NO help.  Was it our responsibility to walk up every 5 minutes and ask when we were told that the event sign up would be announced?   I don't think so...  Either way, I can understand your frustration, but in the end, in our case, it was just plain lack of attention by the staff in this situation.  In the previous situation, the fact that you were allowed to play AT ALL is a bonus we didn't receive.

I am very good friends with two of the staff who work closely with Alan, and I can tell you that they run things right, but everyone makes mistakes, especially in a weekend as hectic and insane as the Grand Prix was.  That being said, the frustration is with the situation, not the individual.  Insulting a staff member on a public forum is not acceptable.  What you say on your own time is one thing, but the moment you post it on a forum, it's going too far.   I get frustrated at one of the local TO's from time to time, but I let it go as understand that it's not easy running events.  You can't please everyone.  You have to make the decisions that benefit the majority, not the few.  Should they have added my friend?   Probably... He just wanted to play, and the round had JUST been paired when he went and talked and found out.  It wouldn't have been hard to add him with a round 1 loss so he could have at least played.  In the case where two people went to register late...  The staff did exactly what I would have done.  No way am I going to make 81 other people suffer for your inability to register on time, when the announcement was made, and there was no delay in the event as there was in the extended side I am referring to.  

Now, for the 800lb Gorilla...

Prize Support....

Ok, let me start with this.  I have been attending Alan's events for a long time.  I will continue to support a majority of Alan's events.  He is a PTO, he keeps majors events coming to Chicago, and I have to travel a lot less thanks to his presence.  

That being said...  I have to say that the support in this event was less than stellar.

$2025 Entry Fee
1100 - 1300 Prize Support...  (closer to 1100)

Ok, so, now that we are all being honest about card prices  (I sold a MT/NM Beta Sapphire for 900, so 1100 is not unreasonable) we can talk percentages.

In no case should a TO every give 100% back.  Even as a store owner who lives on singles.  A few things to remember here...

1. The TO's time is worth Money
2. The Judge's Time is worth Money
3. The Venue cost's money (even in a store, lighting, that comfortable heat/ac all cost money!!)
4. The "agreed upon" prices of cards will always vary.

That said, I believe that even up to 30% is acceptable based on the circumstance  (i.e. the high cost of a GP venue).  In this case, that comes out to about 1400...   Look at fair market value, would we be having this conversation of the 5-8 was a decent condition Underground Sea?  Probably not.  But I will say that for top 8'ing an event with 80+ players, 5-8 should get double their entry fee in prize more often than not.  (thus the ex+ Underground Sea).  I believe that they could have paid more at this event.   In any other circumstance, depending on the use and payment of a judge or not, I would say 20 to 25% is MORE than fair.    To put that in to dollars, you give $5 out of a $25 entry fee for the staff and facility, and the rest goes to prize.  I firmly believe that is more than acceptable.

I personally have only every guaranteed the first prize for any event, never the 2-X.  I always base the rest on attendance.  Ex, I had to cut the support a little short at the 2nd day of the p9, as the entry fee BARELY covered the cost of the power we were running the event with.  I only had 95 players.  Once I paid my staff, I was left with a whopping beat mox ruby I was able to buy from a friend with the profit and part of my personal money.  This was after expecting closer to 120, and giving me the room and ability to pay out Much better.

In the end, what I want people to remember is that we do in fact WORK at events.  And for that, we deserve something for our time, BUT I personally believe that there should be a lid on how much you take out of an event like vintage for profit.  45% is a touch much...  

restricting brainstorm and ponder means mana bases have to GROW.   it means we can't run 17 or 18 mana sources anymore, now we have to run 22 or so...  I think this is better

35 cards to dig IS a problem...   I'm including Gush and scroll with the previous two on this...   With that much digging and tutoring, you are goldfishing more than interacting with the opponent.  Is brainstorming really interacting with the opponent?   No, it's a way to dig for something to be interactive with.  Now, people have to construct decks that have more than one answer to problems instead of tutoring up every single one.  It might actually require some... OMG, Skill!!!   Now you can't rely on seeing any card you want, instead, you have to game plan on playing the game, with the portion of luck that's there... which is part of the skill!!  You have to gamble on your chance to draw cards, not find them the moment you want them.  This may actually lead to people holding that mana drain or force of will for the one thing you only have 1 answer for in the deck... and have to draw to have... 

I believe it's the best idea ever because it's going to FORCE creativity on people.   As of the 20th, decks have to start over, not start with 40 of the same cards...   they are suddenly down on the average of 14 cards, leaving them with 26 cards, of which 7 to 8 are power, and the rest are mana   I for one look forward to a format where the 7th brainstorm/ponder finds the answer, that instead, that player had to play magic to win, not dig from turn 1 til the end of the game.

As I said... i was showing PART of why they are

Fine, I'll break down why i believe they are resticted

Gush - mistake unrestricting it in the first place

Scroll - See Above

Flash - Probably could have been left off with the changes they made, at the same time, still leads to retarded 1st turns

Brainstorm - Ponder  -   Where do I begin...   well, how about they make the game LESS fun...  a lot of people hate sitting through the time it takes to resolve a brainstorm.  I've been on both sides, and ive' been and have seen the frustration. 

As was quoted from Owen Turtenwald this morning, when was the last time 35 cards in a format did nothing but dig



Now as for the rest of the cards that you are mentioning...  I'll repeat that MANA BASES WILL NOT BE RESTRICTED...  They prefer stable mana bases.  Thus keeping fetchs in extended for another year, and for printing the new filter lands in shadowmoor.  They LOVE stable mana bases, and will not change that.

FOW was left unbanned because they killed all the cards that helped it remain good, but it's still necessary in a format with 1st turn wins.   

I was made this post to point out PART of why these cards were restricted, NOT THE ONLY REASON... 

Fetchs and duals are parts of mana bases, and only help produce 1 mana... not 3 like shops (which may be next) and will not get the axe 

as I said before...

And I could have made my points on why they all belong restricted, I'm just showing the facts on part of why they are

Prevalence of a card is a major part of restriction.  You need to look at the history of magic to understand that.

But it's a combination of the prevalence of a card and it's ability to warp the format that lead to the ultimate decision.

FOW holds the format together

Fetchs and duals are parts of mana bases, and only help produce 1 mana... not 3 like shops (which may be next) and will not get the axe

Duress, well, you got me there... except it wasn't a part of the current format  rather, not as large a part as Brainstorm   but that may change

At the risk of being flamed...

I completely agree with this. As a TO and a judge, there were MANY times I was on the border of having to issue a game loss for slow play on brainstorms and ponders. Honestly, with them in the format as 4 of's Round times should have been 75 minutes.

Gush, Scroll, and Flash, anyone who's intelligent should have seen this coming.
http://teamicbm.com/2008/03/19/one-thousand-dollars-says-that-flash-does-not-get-restricted-this-year.aspx

In all seriousness, this is going to do nothing but open up the format. Wizards restricts or bans cards when it's becoming necessary to play 4 of something because everyone else is.

Here are some numbers from the last SCG weekend. A list of the cards, and the number of copies played. If everyone played 4, we'd have 64

Brainstorm 48 of 64
Gush 36 of 64
Merchant Scroll 40 or 64
Ponder 23 or 64

the only decks not running 4 Brainstorm were 2 Dredge, 1 Stax, 1 Workshop aggro. This should be a sign that something was fundimentally wrong with the card. Same with gush, in more than half the decks. Merchant Scroll, same problem... And Ponder would have been the same, but they put the early restriction on it.

If you really look at it... These cards made up 75% of the field... Something if fundamentally wrong with a format that includes EVERY CARD EVERY PRINTED, and most of the decks start with the same 40 or so cards...

I think this will finally break the lull of NO deck originality we have suffered through for the last 3 years.

Good job wizards!!!

If you actually look at the cost of gas in US vs our average salary and compare it to Europe, it's not even close.  We pay A LOT more on gas percentage wise when you put it in to full perspective

Oh, and SCG didn't even cover the Chicago event with NO type 2 going on the same day...  I'm starting to think they don't care about the event anymore. 

If I get the support from the community, I'll make it happen at least once a year in Chicago as a two day event...

I'm going to attempt to make another Chicago 2 day event happen again, regardless of SCG's attendance or not.  But, we will see how that goes

Any interest anyone?

If a judge finds evidence of collusion at ANY time, the play can be DQ'ed.  A player was talking about it after a last round at a PTQ, and a judge overheard...  the guy was DQ'ed on the sport.

First off, I feel horrible for all the people who have been screwed over by him.
I have been in the Chicago area all my life, and feel bad that I am even associated with the piece of trash by location.

Second, I was the TO running the Chicago Day 2 with a big help from head judge Goblin Nick.  And I hope it was enjoyable, because we want to do it again, with or without SCG.

Now, here's what I can say for those of you that have been screwed. 
If you can get to Chicago, I know what event he goes to weekly.  I just don't want to see someone screwed out of 12k

If anyone want's to contact me, get me at drummer79@aol.com

We were wrong in what happened that day... it was dumb I screwed up.  The situation was fixed, AJ top 8ed.
I felt like we all moved on from it.

Also, I'd like to apologize to the ICBM guys about the greedy comment.  I understand wanting to play, and when it benefits the team.  Playing again reminded me of that.  I haven't been there for a while.

I haven't been on the forums lately, but you misquoted the name of the event.   Though they were in attendance briefly on Sunday, Sunday's event was NOT in fact SCG's, it was Mystic Gaming.  Thus it being called the Vintage Mega Weekend.  Star City Games Saturday, Mystic Gaming Events on Sunday. 

You seem to be upset when people mis-quote you, I was upset when I read that you dropped the name of the event, and cost my organization advertising by a major over site.  I hate to seem petty about this, but in fact, you are wrong in calling it SCG Chicago Day 2.

As for the article, well written, and ICBMers are notorious for exactly what he did by not scooping up the cards and letting you in.  They are an alright group of guys, but not so much when situations like that come up.  Case and point...  TK and I can both draw the last round at an event, and he chooses to play me for position instead of letting me eat like I wanted, oh well..   And recently, Dan Carp is playing Jerrett Rocha in a Pastimes event, and last round, the entire top 8 can draw, but Dan chooses to play Jerrett instead of just drawing and letting Jerrett take a break after 5 rounds of Stax.  Both players were totally within their rights, however, it's a reputation they have, and in my opinion, it makes them look like a team of greedy players.

As for the time change suggestion, from a TO's standpoint, I would never run 60 minute rounds in swiss.  I have read in the past what you have written about how much time is spent shuffling, and how many decisions are there to be made, but we all do it.  I used to play Keeper back in the previous era, and had a control/combo that went for infinite turns with Burning Wish and Time Walk, with Recoup and Mirari.   VERY slow deck to set up, however, I managed to finish every round in reasonable time, even when a single turn involved casting 10 spells with 4 or 5 copies made, which including using a lot of dice and counters to show the number of turns "floating."   I have had brainstorms that mean I either win or lose a game depending on the decisions I make.  They do take longer, but not 10 minutes.  Not more than 1 minute is even close to acceptable.  I remind players in a match with them that I need them to make a decision.  I will push when they take an excessive amount of time.  Judges need to be called more often to watch for slow play.  If we all do our part to both play at a more acceptable pace, and not allow other players to slip from that, this problem will go away.

hey guys,

I just got done typing these and sending them to Pete

here is my link to the day two lists

mysticgamingevents.com

I have the top 8 decklists, but I don't think I can post until SCG has them up, but, let's just say that there were some interesting card choices, and TK's stiflenaught deck is REALLY good.

I don't know how soon Gat will go away... 

Manuel had a turn like this..

Your turn, drain gush

My turn

Duress, Will, Gush, Recall, Fastbond (to which steve replies with "That card should be banned"
Land, Land, Merchant Scroll, Gush, Time Walk with a Goyf in play...

Broncos... all the way...  even though I'm a Chicago boy

The team name was developed well before smenicakes was well known...  you have about a 0.0001% chance of guessing it... I know these guys after being teammates for almost two years, and I don't have a damn clue yes...

As posted in the top 8 report of Matt Morrison's rise to 2nd vs vroman, i was quoted saying  I'm on the team, and I don't even know what the name is. 

However, I can release this... Gay White Supremecist does has something to do with the team, but it's not the name of the team itself.

My submissions have been...

God We're Shit
God We Suck
Gotta Win Sometimes
God What Smells
Girls With Shlongs
Guys Without Shlongs
Gay White & Single
Gooey White Seamen
Gooey White Smmnenan
Geeky White Sluts
Guys Without Scrodums
Glamourus Witty Schoolgirls
Guys Who Swallow
Girls Who Swallow
Guys Who Suck
God Worshiping Servants
God Wants Satisfaction
God Wants Sucky Sucky
(Any G Word) Wants Sucky Sucky
Guys Worshiping Satin
Guys Want Sparticus
Guys Watching Sparticus
Guys Watching Sports
Guys Winning Struggles


One of my personal favorites for the meaning to teammate Rhyno

Golf road, What?!   Shit!!

There are my guesses so far... but, there are tons more... And no, I still don't know the true meaning... and when I do, none of you will know anyway...