Actually, why would you need to attack at all? Just shoot the opponent, then let the creature, whichever it is, shoot itself with it's last counter.

Ancient Hydra costs red so if you don't play some red mana producing lands I guess Trike is easier to hardcast.

@UR
If you were refering to my analogy with Triskelion what I mean was that if you play Gaea's Blessing in the deck the Triskelion will sooner or later come back into play. If you play two Triskelions it'll be just about the same effect as Ceruelan Sphinx (except ofcourse you can shoot your opponent as their welders etc.)

If you like it's shuffle ability I think Triskelion is better. It can kill itself, which will have the same result, and it's also castable via Mana Drain.

It's not that I dislike the new cards, although if the new(er) cards make the older ones obsolete then you're probably right.

On the other hand, I could definetely see "new" cards like Kukemssa Pirates and Rishadan Cutpurse combine together with Pirate Ship, Sindbad and Ramirez DePietro in a "Seafarers/Pirates" themed highlander deck, hell even Keiga, the Tide Star could make an appearance.

Hi.

I want to be able to play with cards such as Two-Headed Giant of Foriys, Icy Manipulator (from Alpha/Beta/Unlimited), Serendib Djinn and Scarwood Hag.

For example, Scarwood Hag is obviously just worse than an Eager Cadet, however this is not about winning, at least not just about winning. It's about winning in a great fashion, or just about playing with good old cards with nice flavour.

I've been thinking of 5-color magic with ante, Prismatic and Highlander. The thing is that most of the cards I took up in my example above wouldn't make it into any of these formats, so what I am looking after is another format. Anyone who has got the answer?

What I've been tinkering with is "Theme decks", which could be highlander, could be not.


Sincerely

Arvid

In the Mishra's Factory/Standstill version blue is superior, in the other versions white could IMO actually be better. I mean, what do you want to FoW anyway? Chances are big it can either be Seal:ed or StP:ed and the white cards costs 1 card instead of 2. You'll lose Stifle but Shadow of Doubt replaces it. The only downside is that FoW can be played before you've even played your 1st land, like countering opponents 1st turn Trinisphere, while the white cards can not.

The thing with combo isn't it to be able to go off fast? I mean, what does this deck offer compared to a deck with -10 combo pieces +10 cards that could be Ophidian, Mana Leak, Impulse, Chalice, Powder Keg, bounce, Cunning Wish, Fire/Ice, Isochron Scepter, Vedalken Shackles?

If they resolve a Bargain they've won, right. But their chances to play Bargain are reduced by Null Rod. I guess they're reduced by Crypt aswell, since they can break off a massive Will, Rituals, replay a Tutor and hardcast Bargain, but Crypt hoses one card, Rod hoses 8 cards, maybe more. Yes, I know Will is not only one card, it's the card. Anyway, I think you've got a point, but I still think I've got one aswell, especially since Null Rods also are some good against CS, Stax and Fish, every deck with power, and also other, more random, stuff like Affinity, Skullclamp and Illusionary Mask. I have to playtest, I guess.

Anyway, I actually could consider playing Pyrostatic Pillar maindeck. But what does it do in the non combo matchup? I guess taking lots of damage yourself doesn't matter against control either. So it's a good card except against aggro, or?

@orgcandman:
Since you seem to follow me and my posts I'll summarize it for you:

-3 Disenchant
-2 Lava Dart
-1 Genju of the Spires
-2 Tormod's Crypt
-1 land

+4 Null Rod
+4 Kami of Ancient Law
+1 Lotus Petal

..meaning I only sprung through the Katakis and Seals, I only cut the mox for a blink of a second, and the 2 "cards" eventually got to be Genjus, so I havn't cut it, just lowered it to 2 (for the moment).

What it comes down to is:

Kami of Ancient Law vs. Disenchant/Seal of Cleansing
Null Rod vs. Tormod's Crypt


I can agree that Kami is a narrow card but please can you specify "it's ability is only relevent in a matchup that you have game against anyway (unless enchantress is showing up in your area)." I don't know what matchup you are refering to. If it's Oath I'm surprised it's considered an easy matchup, please let me know. I know a bear isn't very exciting but I fear cutting so many creatures leaving the deck with only a few win conditions and very many Disenchant/Shatter-effects.

As for Null Rod, I never stated that it meant game vs. combo. I simply said that the other artefact destruction spells/creatures are somewhat irrelevant to combo since it can drop the moxen the same turn it draws ~lots of card from Yawgmoth's Bargain or does something like it. Ofcourse, Null Rod can be bounced (and chances are big they draw into bounce if the draw that many cards), but the fact that Null Rod actually is better than Goblin Vandal/Hearth Kami against combo, can you argument against it?
 

Wow, much ado about noth... a Mox Pearl. I'll put it back into the list immidiently. (As a sidenote, when I cut the mox I at the same time cut a land for a Lotus Petal.)

The bad thing about Kataki (and Vandal and Shaman) is that combo only needs to drop and use its moxen once. This makes me consider Null Rod (obviously cutting the Crypts in the process). What do you think? I mean, I don't see any Jittes here anyway. As for "Null Rod can be owned by Echoing Truth" imo is like saying I shouldn't play creatures because of creature removal. If my opponent drops a lot of moxen with a Null Rod in play, and I am afraid of a bounce spells coming, I could start eating moxen with Vandal even though they for the moment are nullified.

This is my theoretical swithes:

-3 Kataki
-2 Tormod's Crypt
+4 Null Rod
+1 Mox Pearl

which (since Null Rod takes a lot of artifacts) also may lead to:

-2 Seal of Cleansing
+2 Cards


(My switches just made the Mox Pearl a lot worse now, cutting a lot of white cards and using Null Rod. Anyway, a 1st turn white Kami against Oath is nice, or a 2nd turn with Pyroblast backup if you rather want to).

@LouGodKingofDustBunnys:
Yes, the Weather Wayfarers actually seemed to slow, after some more testing. This deck is more aggro than WU so they were cut for Kataki, which could be Null Rods.

My decklist differs:

-3 Disenchant
-2 Lava Dart
-3 Genju of the Spires
-1 Mox Pearl

+3 Kataki, War's Wage
+4 Kami of Ancient Law
+2 Seal of Cleansing

I think Lava Dart are overkill (in my meta), I still got 12 spells that kill welders. I think Kamis are better than Disenchant, sure they're sometimes dead, but not more dead than a red Kami without a target, they're bears and thats ok in an aggro deck. I play Seals because I have space, they could swith to more Crypts. Katakis are good but maybe it's better to just play Null Rod or Gorilla Shaman, please tell me what you think?

As for the Genjus I don't have any good argument really, I guess I just don't consider them good Vintage material, I rather play small hosers instead of a big beater.

@Onslaught:
I still see no reason to play a worthless card instead of a good one. The ideas I came up with only costs one blue and you still got 4 Polluted Delta, 4 Underground Sea, 1 Island, 1 Mox Sapphire and 4 Aether Vial. If the mana cost is such as problem (which it isn't) just add a few more fetches or pain lands. If you still want to include cards that you aren't supposed to play I think Misdirection is superior pitching to FoW than Dimir Guildmage, since it occasionally can be played pitching a Stifle/Shadow of Doubt.

@Rafka:
Here comes a decklist, as you can see it's not very hard to get 2BB and storm count 9 when drawing ~19 cards. This decklist came second in a swedish proxy 10 tournament. Personally I think it has some odd card choices such as 3 FoW, no Duresses, Wheel of Fortune. As I rememered the deck from some years ago it was only 3-colored. Anyway, since I havn't played the deck for some years I think it's better to post a decklist that actually has been played/tweaked than some old decklist.


CREATURES (4)
4 Academy Rector

ENCHANTMENTS (3)
1 Future Sight
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth’s Bargain

SORCERIES (14)
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Timetwister
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Wheel Of Fortune
1 Windfall
1 Mind’s Desire

INSTANTS (14)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Force Of Will
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Chain Of Vapor

ARTIFACTS (13)
1 Memory Jar
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mana Vault
1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal

LAND (12)
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City Of Brass
2 Forbidden Orchard
1 Glimmervoid
1 Tolarian Academy
   
SIDEBOARD
2 Oath Of Druids
1 Form Of The Dragon
3 Seal Of Cleansing
1 Force Of Will
1 Balance
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Chain Of Vapor
2 Ray Of Revelation
 

I've playtested this deck a bit. I like Weathered Wayfarer too much (from my wwu) so I just had to include i t in this one too. What do you think about it?

Another thing. I replaced 3 Disenchant and 1 other card with 4 Kami of Ancient Law. It must be better, it's a body too? You'll still have the same amounts of enchantment removal, you'll lose some artifact removal but 8 should be enouch imo. (As a sidenote I would play Seal of Cleansing over Disenchant).

If Dimir Guildmage only pitches to FoW wouldn't it be better to replace it with a useful blue card, such as Waterfront Bouncer, Ninja of Deep Hours, Rootwater Thief, Magus of the Unseen or Gilded Drake?

What does this deck/combo offer over Academy Rector for Yawgmoth's Bargain, drawing ~19 cards, eventually casting Tendrils of Agony? I don't mean to be negative, I think it's fun using a new card and all, but is it on par with the bargain combo or is it better/worse?

I've been working on this deck ever since I saw the Ravnica spoiler. However my latest decklist differs from yours on more than some point, first of all I cut black. I don't think this is an opted build, but hopefully it can give you some thoughts and/or new ideas and maybe you could give me some criticism too.


CREATURES (20)
12 kobolds
4 cloud of faeries
4 xantid swarm

ARTIFACTS (9)
4 cloudstone curio
4 skullclamp
1 memory jar or Darksteel Colossus

SORCERIES (6)
4 glimpse of nature
1 timetwister
1 tinker

INSTANTS (6)
2 brain freeze
1 ancestral recall
1 crop rotation
1 mystical tutor
1 rebuild

MANA (19)
4 ESG
4 tropical island
2 gaea's cradle
5 moxen
1 black lotus
1 chrome mox
1 lotus petal
1 mana crypt

Sorry, my mistake. Didn't read nor remember the card properly.

@Das_Boot:

How do you play Shadow of Doubt? Only with Mox Sapphire and Black Lotus? You should at least put 1 Underground Sea in between main and sideboard, and while you're at it add 1 Ancestral Recall and 1 Time Walk aswell.

Could you post the MBC decklist so we know what we are talking about?

1a. You play answers (Fire/Ice, Echoing Truth, 2x Gorilla Shaman) where i play 4 Duress. What do you think of it? I always want to improve and toy around so getting your input would be nice.

1b. If you think answers are better than duresses (which I think you'll answer, just want to know why) would you still think so if your meta was filled with combo?

Actually, I playtested your decklist and I wasn't very impressed. Ofcourse, I only played one matchup, which randomly got to be u/w Landstill, but even when I won I wasn't excited. It felt slow, and I a number of times fell victim to my own hate, like having to tap for Null Rod, having to play lands tapped when I needed my mana, and being land screwed due to mana light deck and Land Grants getting countered when the opposite where supposed to happend. I'm not saying this is a reliable verdict, since it was only one matchup, but I think fish or some tweaked goblin deck might do better.

Anyway I might test Bebe's list to get some more input on this color combination.

Telling Time could be useful i Gro. However, Gro is not really a viable deck type at the moment, or is it? I think not. If it could make a comeback maybe this card could see play in that type of deck.

Has anyone teched on a Cloudstone Curio decklist?

I've been very unsatisfied with KoboldClamp, a BG list. So, anyway, I want to try a curio version of the deck. How should it look like? I'm thinking UG instead of BG. Blue gives me the bllue powercards, Tinker (Memory Jar). We will miss the rituals and tutors, however the deck will be more of an Aluren type of deck, so much mana isn't really needed in the same way. BrainFreeze obv replaces Tendrils, I'm thinking of playing something like ~3 Brainfreeze, since you don't actually need Glimpse to combo out. Glimpse I think is very good in this deck, so I think G should stay before B (if we play U, that is...). Maybe Living Wish could make it in this deck.

If you consider this R/G Fish why don't you play the typical R fish creatures, such as Grim Lavamancer and Gorilla Shaman? I get that the old mox monkey might be a little outdated seeing Chalice of the Void hoses the same permanents, but lavamancer?

Yes, I have but I chose Kor Haven over it since it at least could produce colorless. However I think I'll play 1 Maze of Ith in SB since both Kor Haven and Karakas are legendary.

Suppression Field kills your Mongrels, Rootwallas and Wastelands - yes - but it also kills (slows?) welders, bazaars, fetches (even more!) etc. Anyway, I can totally see why you don't want to play it. Although you could playtest a version that replaces Mongrel/Rootwalla with some combination of Savannah Lions, Isamaru, River Boa (no regeneration tough) , Rogue Elephant etc. etc. It'll be a different approach, vanilla creatures with high p/t instead of techy ativated abilities - but I can't see why this approach is the wrong way to go. I mean - Watchwolf is just a plain vanilla beater, right?

Hm, I think I'd rather cut the Karakas for a plains since Kor Haven is (almost) as good as Karakas against Oath (which is Karakas main (only?) use).

If you don't play full set of Savannah, you're right.

Pulling a 2nd Kataki is as non-sexy as pulling a 2nd Null Rod imo.


Ever considered Suppression Field?

I think you instead of 2 Kataki, 4 Null Rod should play a 3/3 configuration. Extra Null Rods are useless and Kataki can join the beatdown.

The new dual from Ravnica could be tech (with Root Maze) if you want more duals or don't like Land Grant enough.

I play a similar archetype (WW/u) and what I miss most is a Seal of Cleansing- or at least Oxidize-type of creature (Kami of Ancient Law exists but it's too narrow), since I don't want to play the actual spells (Seal etc.) since they can't attack. So if I were to play the color green I would strongly playtest Viridian Zealot or Elvish Scrapper.