I would like one, as I can't seem to find anyone anywhere. Would be much appreciated.

I like this more.

I can't really agree with the Portugal part. Angola is a physically strong team, putting intense pressure on every attacker, and they aren't afraid of using foul play.

Portugal kept control the entire time, and the total lack of cordination in the Angolese attacks surely didn't scare any of the portuguese players. Just look at how well Nuño Valente, Figo, Zimão, C. Ronaldo played, and how many fouls were comitted at them, especially Ronaldo in this case.

Underestimating Portugal is a stupid case. Their team is stronger than two years ago at the EC, and I'm sure their skill will be showcased versus European and South-American teams.

Dutch guys doesn't rate anything better than 0-6 anywhere.

Sway of the stars is so hot if I have my Verdant Force in play when I manage to resolve it.

MOTL and eBay are both excellent places to buy power, I have picked up aprox. 15 pieces combined on both so I have learned a little.

I believe this is basic stuff, but still I'm amazed buy the amount of people who don't realize this is simply etiquette and guidelines that should always be followed.

First rule is always check feedback, as this is your most reliable source for knowing how to trust a person.
On MOTL you want to first: read the comments and remember that a low # (E.G.: 4 or 3) in overall rating does not necessarily mean that the person is a bad trader. I have a 3 from a guy who thought that recieving 3 days after wasn't impressive.
On eBay that you can check at least about 25 recent references where you can check what the person has sold before.
Often, you might see a lot of MTG references, but do generally not buy power from people who hasn't sold anything before over like 1.29$.

You probably won't need more than 50 MOTL references to trust a guy and from 250 and upwards with recent sales on eBay you should be good.

Bottomline when it comes to references is it isn't that important if people communicate well and act friendly and reasonable.

Second rule: You can always back out of a deal.
This is also such a basic thing that for some reason a lot of people don't do.

Third rule: If it's too good a deal, it is too good - back out.

Forth rule: Be patient. Do not abuse of ripping the first day after, things do take their time and for some reason often things do get in the way.

It is not always easy to figure out who is legit, so i've put together a list of trustworthy people on MOTL with power, for those interested:
(Dealt with all these people)

hispls
Bigballashotcaller (JACO)
Fredrik Haugen
Michael French
Grandeur84
Foilmonger
Buffness4
Refried Jumping Bean
Mr.Volrath

Will update it with more names when I have time.

Accumulated Knowledge for 0.50$. Foil, of course.

Additional 4 Swords to Plowshares DCI Foil - 12.95$

Metalworker S. Chinese foil - 7.00$

Beta Tropical Island for 97.00$

Trading a Beat Volcanic Island for a Unlimited Sea, signed.

To FBB Volcanic Island for 2 Beta Volcanic Island + 80$

This isn't insane, it's just bragging. The point is it is amazing that people still have no idea what the prices are on cards.

I. Hate. Nightmare.

I managed to trade a 4 x FBB Tundra (Seriously NM), 1 x FBB Demonic Tutor for 1 x BEAT Mox Emerald. This I then traded for a pretty nice Twister + a FBB Demonic tutor (I love those - have 6). Then I'd figured that my Beta twister beat a shitty WB one 8 days a week, and traded it down for 4 x FBB Tundra, 4 x FBB Tropical Island, 4 x Quirion Dryad in foil + 2 x FBB Sol Ring.

It might have taken me over 20 days to achieve that, but I ended up with mad more cards, plus the final deal was absolutely crazy. That is approx 500 dollars for a 200 dollar card.

Other notables:

Beta Regrowth for 4 x Force of Will
Vampiric Tutor Korean for none. He never replied.

It requires 8 slots though, it is based on a enchantment that gets creature into play cheaper.

This is exactly like mask, except that mask just two slots less (Creatures). As  mask didn't win games the same turn, neither will a 6/X flyer.

I think people will have success with this deck as long as the metagame in down in tempo, which it won't be forever. Mask was hated out, so will oath be.

The entire thing is not whether it is easy to remove oath or disable its ability - it is about how easy it is to remove a creature.

--Jacob

I'd stick to my normal foils - who would EVER want those over the old foils?

You can play ONE card with your Workshop?

She [Ashnod] absolutely came in contact with Urza several times, although not in any friendly way, a exchange of armor were probably not the reason they met up.

My guess would have to be that it is Ashnod, or some miser.

Favorite art - Tropical Island. That card is awesome.

So is the old Shivan Dragon and surely also the Serra Angel.

Pyramids, Mishra's Factory (Spring) and Presence of the Master (Good one, bebe!) from the old sets rock.

Ball Lightning DCI foil, Two-headed Giant of Foryies, Priest of Yawgmoth(AQ), Gate to Phyrexia(AQ) and the Pentavite token.

That was what struck me, too.

It is probably because it is such a hard card to find (I didn't do a search.)

The real amazing thing is the prices of Summer Magic. Rares for 7-800 a PIECE?! :I

Mox Sapphire?

Excellent coverage, MM, brilliant work at that paganic hour.

BR4M is right. I once bought 3 workshops off my TEACHER in grade school, for approx. 35 bucks a piece. I didn't glitch a second, cause it is his fault, and his alone, that he would sell those cards for that little.

Great report. By the way, do you dislike Trevor or were it all in the name of sarcasm?

I think, as a dane and as a Vintage player, that it's a fun fact that the swedish people makes so much fun of the american metagame because of their own metagame.

If your Stax truly is the deck that can beat every other deck, it probably would be played as well in the states.

Your metagame consists of Stax and decks prepared for that match. That is not healthy. That is what every magic player know as: "WotC will have to restrict something", and that is definitely not the right answer. Sweden should stop thinking their metagame, with its onesided results and decks, is the right metagame, and should start actually improving their own metagame to something that is worth attending. I don't honestly think USA has the problem, I think sweden has it. And I also think they will figure it out.

Note: Not saying swedish players are bad or anything, just thoughts.

Congratulations to Windfall!

At least, I figured that it was UBG, played Drains and Daze's and could cast a Smother turn1?

EDIT: http://www.neutralground.net/Forums/ForumItem.asp?NewsID=2406&BackupLink=Main.asp

Stax wasn't named Stax because Smokestack.

Even for basic community, this post is lame - only tangential to the discussion, a one-liner...it's not even a sentence. Do better.[/color]

I have a foil Intuition. Not a trade request, but drop me a pm.

EDIT: and a lot of the other stuff, I dunno why I forgot to include it.

This is exactly the sort of thing that YOU should pm'ing HIM about, instead of cluttering up a thread./color]

omg, I combined my Tog and GAT sideboard.

4 Blue Elemental Blast

Instead.

I don't think running red or having a single volcanic is a good idea, either. The manabase should definitely stay at 3 colors.

I think Kerz is trying to actually proove that just because Zherbus or some other wizkid posts one list, doesn't mean we have to follow it like a bunch of brainless morons.

I, as well, has lately been wondering alot of where all the METAGAMING went. Kerz made a right choice, as well as cutting Decree as it is obviously useless unless you face excessive aggro, especially fish.

It is funny as people went from innovating to returning to one supreme deck list when considering k3eper. Nobody remembers Zherbus article about METAGAMING k3eper?

--Jacob

Wouldn't Dragon be a better choice with all the sui.black? It loses brutally to DeathLong, but yet again...

Gilberry > Unless you are running a workshop deck, which deck like a T1 Trinisphere?

Against workshop, you first of all need to assign a role. With a deck packing 5 Lotus, 7+ mana producing artifacts and some of the most efficient fat ever printed, control is often the obvious role you need to take. That is one of the reasons I play Strip Mine, to handle that Workshop or Library.

Often, these decks run a minimum of countering, hoping they can outbroken the opponent within the first 3-4 turns (the critical turns.) If you resolve a dryad, you just changed the decks focus entirely, and now they need to deal with it. Running 14 hard counters and 14 drawspells give you nearly 1/2 of your deck devoted to making your dryad survive. That's one of the reasons I don't run a Duress or two in the deck, the weak match against workshop decks.

Resolving a dryad seems key, at least to me. Resolving dryad against anything seems key, as people always go into defensive, and when they finally kill the bastard they either lost so many turns dealing with it that you resolve a next turn dryad or outdraw them in a glitch. That is the strength of GAT.

Not drawing a Dryad within turn 3 is so rare that, with my decklist, I don't even thinks its a liability. I'm not lying when I think it never happened once.

My sideboard changes very often, but I wouldn't leave home without:

1 Berserk
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Snuff Out
1 Accumulated Knowledge (>>> Fact or Fiction, even if I include both.)
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Oxidize
1 Teferi's Response
1 Naturalize
1 Coffin Purge

Metagame the last 3 spots. I prefer having a totally wishable sideboard, which I believe is the most efficient way of using GAT, even though I sometimes run 2 Berserk SB to side in, shifting out a Serum Visions for the faster kill.

Addolorisi, the discussion of fitting in red in GAT is as upheated as the color symbolize itself. Artifact Mutation is an fantastic tool, but so much more in Hulk-based decks. Where you sometimes just can't outdraw the opponent and make the Tog lethal, a snap AM can totally change the game in your favor. GAT doesn't need this game switch possibility, as GAT doesn't play like Tog anymore. Again, resolving the dryad and countering his stuff is the answer to most problems you will face.

The beauty of the manabase, at least my version, is it's so hard to get mana screwed. 12 duals, including the Polluted Delta, a lone Island and two of the three best lands ever printed. If you worry about the base, remove the Strip and add a Forest.

Fire/Ice is insanely good in any deck it fits the mana base, but dealing with Welder's is just easier with hardcountering. Running red is, imo, the wrong decision and again changes the deck onward to the slower Hulk-like build. I don't think it would be as easy to do the turn2 kills with red as well.

As Fifth Dawn brought two cards that radically changed Grow-A-Tog, I think it would be quite useful to have a discussion in open about the deck.

First, I will post the list that I found the most efficient, and later on discuss the card choices and most importantly, the role of GAT today. I bolded the special choices.

Grow-A-Tog, skefied, suited for the common meta:

Mana (19):
4 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
1 Island
R Strip Mine
R Library of Alexandria

R Black Lotus
R Mox Jet
R Mox Sapphire
R Mox Emerald

Beatings of tomorrow (5):
4 Quirion Dryad
1 Psychatog

I Can Trip a.k.a. Draw (14):
4 Night's Whisper
4 Serum Visions
4 Brainstorm

R Ancestral Recall
R Gush

Resolving +5 spell stacks with wicked sick moves (14)
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
4 Misdirection
3 Daze

National/International tutorage (4)
2 Cunning Wish

R Demonic Tutor
R Mystical Tutor

Awesomeness in large doses (3):
R Yawgmoth's Will
R Fastbond
R Time Walk

The skilled calculative mind already figured out this list to be 59 cards only, I will get back to this later. First the special choices, in listed order:

Strip Mine - This is the only card where I don't think it is the GAT playing style that depends on the card, more the current meta. Sui.Gat has a great matchup against Hulk, but a early LoA can take the steam out of the game. I have more then once faced a LoA that drew 6-8 cards in an game, which is more then I probably drew that entire game. You get the picture. Same counts with 4cc and "the better Slaver.dec".

Misdirection and Daze - it is a personal choice, first of all. First how many of each should be included, if they should be included at all. I always liked Daze (And happens to own 3 foil asian). Ric_Flair (or David Hernandez? One of them, at least) has always said that Misdirection is underrated. Misdirection is bloody gawd. I bow in my blasphemous body beneath the great power of the flying blue faces in the picture.

The drains. These are, as the closed debate already prooved, very much up to discuss.

Playstyle and the issues involved

Those who remember old GAT, the amazingly streamlined, Gush-Powered(TM) draw house it surely was, will have a hard time realizing that the playstyle of GAT has shifted a lot. The primary reason is, of course, the restriction of Gush. Lets see a situation with Tog on the table, 1 Mox, 4 Lands in play, 2 Gush in hand.

Tap two lands for blue > Gush. Draw 2.

In theory, tog just gained: +6.5/+6.5

Tap another two lands, play another Gush, tog is now, with discarding ONLY the cards that Gush gave as merit of its casting cost/ability, +11/+11. Considering you have 4 free mana, Cunning wish > Berserk is now a very likely possibility.

That is why the deck is named Grow-A-Tog, not Grow-A-Dryad or GAD, the amazing ability to just totally wreck your enemy, even at instant speed. Today's GAT went from immensely powerful draw to Cantrips replacing themselves, and that has so surely changed the focus from 'Smiley' to 'Elvy', and that is the point; GAT combos out in an entirely different way today compared to before, and therefore the playstyle should be adjusted in that way. Psychatog is still a house, granted, but its role in SuiGAT is outplayed. As an conclusion, the evolution of GAT can be explained like this:

GAT changed from powerful draw cards onwards to the other end of the scale, the cantrips, merely replacing themselves.  Â´

This bring me further to Mana Drains, and why you would want to play them, even today. When people argue for using Mana Drain in decks today, the reason is either, for some damned reason, Cunning Wish > Fact or Fiction or Let's make that SKEletal Scrying 'damn huge, ma' (Nothing wrong with scrying, note the name, no coincidence.). The reason why I would not play GAT without drains anymore is first of all because a Drain of a 3-4cc card is not fueling a power play, it is fueling 3-4 small counter-plays.

Example:
Drain FoW, 5 mana in mainphase. Tap Underground Sea > Night's Whisper. Draw 2. Tap blue, Time Walk. Tap Black, Demonic Tutor. Tutor op Ancestral Recall if its still in your deck, play it. Now you probably either drawn into more cantrips, and surely counters and 1-2 mana pieces.

Even if the deck doesn't have huge amounts of cards it can blow, Mana Drain is too god to give up. I am amazed by it every time. That is also exactly another reason why the deck's focus has changed. Where you wanted a powerplay before to pump tog, you now strongly focus your mind on the Dryad with many small plays. Because of that, I strongly advocate Mana Drain.

Playing against creatures that start gay and end fat

People tend to make the same mistake every single time they play against GAT; they go into total defensive and try to avoid losing to the dryad, but this is the sure way to actually lose.

The best example in magic is without doubt Xantid Swarm. Deal with it or lose.

Change 'Xantid Swarm' with 'Quirion Dryad' and you have the exact same situation. GAT can't play the inevitable style that Tog bases so much of its play on, but even turn 3-4-5, a resolved Dryad is simply just turning the game around and saying: now we play my game. The cheap cantrips always net you bunch of countermagic, note that my GAT plays more disruptive counterspells than Keeper.

To play against GAT you need to disrupt the early game instead of trying to outcounter the Dryad when the time comes. Some people will try to rush the Dryad through (Aggressive role) and other will wait a few turns, building up a powerful hand (Control). The role is as always very important, missasignment equals gameloss, as we all were told by our mama's at bedtime when we were young (/younger.).

What I would like to discuss is how to optimize GAT and how to play it correctly. The deck, straightforward as it may be, often surprise me in the array of possibilities very early in the game due to the low mana curve, technically ending at 2. After all the intensive testing I done with GAT, I find the deck to be surprisingly resillient and incredibly powerful. The deck could surely be a defining deck of the fall, I find no decks where its matchup is that bad.

EDIT: For the 60th card, throw in Merchant Scroll, or whatever.

This will be one of my few posts so I will make it quick.

The above quote is the exact problem that D7 doesn't make T8s. I am an arrogant, better-knowing jerk when it comes to Draw7, but I know the exact reason it doesn't win is because it doesn't have a game plan. The deck consists of the restricted list+a few multiples here and there.

And Goober, not to be personal or anything, but you always say Draw7 is bad, and you're basing it on the large amount of goldfishing you have done with it. Obviously, you haven't learned yet to navigate with it.

It is damn hard, but as I play D7 now, I win against most decks and I absolutely think it is one of the most obvious Tier1 decks - It isn't long, but its nearly as crazy when piloted well. But the deck sure is the definite hardest deck to play 'perfect'.

Anyone, pictures of a Mox Crystal, please?

I think the battle between JACO and SamiteHealer is getting way out of hand. They should just post their entire list of cards ans we could work it out that way.

They do have different oppinions on what is pimp, so obv. people will consider their lists in different lights. Where JACO have the DECKS Samite have the CARDS.

But damnit people, BRING IT ON!

... Why even post such a topic? You absolutely did nothing except post a c/p'ed decklist, and then you expect us to do everything for you.

Read the rules.

There is a specific mention in the rules of how you should not post to topics you know will be locked. Don't lecture others on the rules. -Dr. Sylvan