This looks awesome. Time to dust off the shops.

Sounds like fun. I'll be there nick. Please pre-register me.

WTB black bordered power at white border prices. 

Perfect timing. I was just going to ask for that info as well. Unfortunately I had to work today ;(

I'll be bringing a car down from CT. Good times.

It's my fault CT isn't showing up, although in retrospect, Nick doesn't give us enough notice on events, so I'm blaming him   

In all seriousness though, it was just a bad day and I had plans. Hopefully next time.

I'm not into dicks, or rats......or even rats with dicks, but it was the funniest 9th place prize ever.  Apparently it was also better than winning the tournament.  150 Plague Rats, 148 of them were Revised, 1 of them was Unlimited, and surprisingly enough 1 from Summer.  Anyone want to buy a Summer Edition Plague Rats?

I had a great time Nick. Thanks for having us down. My 9th place prize was epic, too.

Hybrids lean toward one side.  If it's a combo deck with bob/tombstalker/colossus, then it's still combo even though it can win through creatures.  If it's a control deck with delver/snapcaster/stoneforge, then it's still a control deck.  Every deck has alternate means to win, that doesn't change the fact that they are geared towards winning in a certain way and they can run creatures that help with their primary means of winning and still offer a back up plan.

There isn't a single game against any deck that I "roll over".  Although game 1 against Oath is fairly bad for me, just like it is for you/msg.

As for six drops costing the same as their two drops because we have better lands....Other decks will always have the mana to cast their 1-drops on turn 1, their 2-drops on turn two, and their 3-drops on turn three.  Their mana curves are consistent (barring our disruption).  We on the other hand cannot guarantee a six drop on turn 1, 2 or even 3. Also, we deal ourselves damage in order to hit that curve (Ancient Tomb).  The deck MSG listed has zero card draw or deck manipulation so you're literally betting on luck to win the game.  You won't even see Chalice in most of your games since you have no way to find it or draw extra cards.  You hope to outdraw your opponent or get one beast that he can't answer.

Ravager is NOT a two for one.  You get a minor effect out of him when they 1 for 1 your other creatures.  Triskelion is rarely a 2 for 1.  Usually he's not even a 1 for 1.  I'd rather have Grim Poppet in most of the matchups (No, I don't play him either).  Sure, you can't play ravager tricks, but thankfully you don't have to waste room on ravager either.  You're squeezing two sub-par creatures together just because they happen to have some synergy, but again, without any deck manipulation/tutor effect the odds are against you getting (and resolving) both of them in play at the same time to take advantage of the interaction.

We obviously play in very different metas.  I wish more people in my area played dismember.  Spend 2-3 mana and 4 life to kill one of my creatures?  That's the best 1 for 1 I could ask for.  It probably took up their entire turn just to cast it too.

There are three archtypes (pillars) of magic.  Control, Combo, and Aggro.  There are many ways to go about each and there are some hybrids, but those are the basics. 

Control is better at beating combo at the expense of being weak to aggro
Combo is great at beating aggro, but it's weak against control
Aggro beats control, but loses to Combo

Magic is a huge game of rock, paper, scissors.  When I said that Workshops are designed to beat blue decks, that's because fundamentally, they kick ass at doing that.  We have the tools to beat up blue decks.  We have spheres, thorns, lodestone, tangle wire, etc that blue decks hate to see.  We screw with their game plan and they have a hard time winning.   Creature decks don't care about those cards.  All of our "good" cards are cheap, the one's that are good against our natural enemy (combo), while all of our cards that we want to see against aggro are expensive (since it's supposed to be our weakness).  You and msg are obviously trying to build a deck to beat aggro, which is very doable, but workshop decks are best at beating up on combo.  It's what we're good at.  If there are alot of creature based decks in your meta, you're going to have a much more difficult time winning with workshops than if you changed decks to oath or combo.  Looking at the situation in reverse, aggro decks have a much easier time beating up on us workshop decks, since all of the cards that we don't want to see are super-cheap.  You guys want to run ravager just to offset the loss of their 1-cc kill spells, yet you're not stopping to think that, "oh crap, I just spent 6 mana on that and they killed it for 1".  Aggro is supposed to have an easier time beating us.  We ARE their good matchups.  To beat them you have to warp your deck so much that you almost scoop to combo.  No spheres?  You're running creatures to beat creatures, but their creatures are WAY more efficient than ours.  We have trouble dealing with Tarmogoyf, Trygon, Kataki, Ooze, Knight of the Reliquary....ALL of them cost 3 or less mana, yet it costs us 6 mana to deal with them.  This is not a battle in our favor no matter how much you two want it to be.  MSG, your list looks pretty decent from the other thread, but you will still lose to creature based strategies with that deck. It doesn't matter if it's U/W delver/snapcaster/kataki/stoneforge or if it's G/W kataki/ooze/knight/tarmo or even U/G trygon/tarmo/ooze/etc.  They all have 1 mana answers to our best cards and they have a hell of alot of them.

Instead of trying to fight through the avalanche, trying to beat an archtype that's difficult for us to beat, it's better to concentrate on what we're GREAT at, and that's winning against combo/blue control decks.

Workshop decks, first and foremost, are designed to beat blue decks.  So of course I'm prioritizing planeswalkers and control cards.  If your store's playing a ton of Dredge and Kataki then you're playing the wrong deck.  The reason those decks have been doing so well lately is because they're playing against workshop decks.  Triskelion is fine in the sideboard as a 1-2 of, but Razormane Masticore is better against the decks that play Kataki/Bob/small creatures with toughness 5 or less.  Why risk losing to Null Rod or stoney silence at all?  For many of the creatures the fish decks are playing you're using trike to kill a single creature (Trygon, Ooze, Goyf, etc).  If you're going to spend 6 mana to kill one creature, you might as well run Duplicant instead, since he can also be used against Oath targets, Colossus from tinker.  Things that Trike is dead against.  Triskelion hasn't been great since the M10 changes when they got rid of damage stacking.

Yes, I've read this thread.  You haven't posted a list so I had no information to go off.  Even in aggro mud lists there isn't alot of room and you don't need eight 2-drop creatures.  So even though the two creatures are doing different jobs, they are competing for the same slot.

As for Trike, he's terrible against Jace and Tezzeret.  Sure, in an ideal world, you get him in play and then kill a planeswalker, but that's unlikely to happen and even if it does, you're usually too far behind to catch back up.  In Tezzeret's case, he already found his artifact, namely time vault or voltaic key.  Whichever part of the piece they were missing.  Even if they don't have the other piece yet, they'll find it off tutor's or cantrips before you do lethal damage.  Afterall, you just spent six mana for a 1/1.  He's not winning the game anytime soon.

As for Jace, they're not going to cast him if you have Trike already in play unless they have a second jace already in their hand or they know that they're going to win if they get a single activation.  Assuming Jace is in play, then they already brainstormed and found Steel Sabotage, Force, etc to protect him.  Even in the unlikely event that you get him resolved, They spent 4 mana, got a free card, increased the quality of their hand, and are better prepared to win, whereas you just spent 6 mana and ended up with a 1/1.

Ravager is better against Plainswalkers.  They're shut off before they're even cast.

Both Triskelion and Ravager are useless before Null Rod and Stony Silence, which many decks main deck.  Triskelion is really only playable against aggro decks and those are the decks you're most likely to see the above mentioned cards.  Even as a late game win with goblin welder recursion he's inferior to many other beaters.  Most importantly, neither creature helps your gamestate immediately. 

For a creature to be playable in any workshop deck he must do more than just attack.  Phyrexian Revoker is better than Ravager in many circumstances.  He shuts off Time Vault, Voltaic Key, Jace: TMS, Tezzeret 1&2, he stops mana production Moxen, Sol Ring, Mana Crypt.  There are extremely few situations where you want to top-deck a Ravager or a Triskelion, where there are hundreds of instances where you want a Revoker to keep you in the game.  Revoker is Sphere/Strip/Meddling/Null all wrapped up in one little package.  Ravager cannot compete with him for a 2-drop slot, not in vintage and there's just not enough room to run them both.

I've traveled to Gencon each of the last five years and I'll be going again this year as well, but I can't say for 100% certainty that I'll be playing in the vintage/legacy champs.  I completely agree with Rich.  Every single year tens of thousands of dollars are stolen in the CCG hall and the level of security is unacceptable.  Thieves are getting bolder since they're rarely ever caught.  Decks are being stolen right off the table, even during play.  Good luck catching the thief with that bag wrapped around your legs (to protect the cards they just ran off with).  Rich, if you change your mind, there's a TON of other stuff to do there besides play Magic.  Although I really wanted to avenge my loss to you last year, I've always wanted to take a run through True Dungeon, but never found the time.  Chances are Pastimes won't do anything about it until they start seeing a drop in attendance.  It's not just Pastimes though, GP level events are just as prone to theft and there's no security there either.  As our pieces of cardboard continually climb in value, we should really be pressuring the TO's for more security.

I'm just thankful that we have a close bond as vintage players and we don't have to worry much about theft at local events in NY/NJ/NE. 

I'm in Connecticut, so I don't have any information about stores in that area, but generally trading at stores is acceptable as long as it's cards for cards.  Buying and selling at card stores is usually frowned upon.  Also, since we use proxies over here, and because vintage is rather unpopular, it's fairly unusual to find power at a local gaming store.  I should probably mention that out of all 50 states, Texas is the most "gun friendly". Expect everyone you talk with to have a gun. I'm sure you'll be fine, just be aware of where you meet people and don't put yourself in a dangerous situation with a lot of cash/cards. If money is going to trade hands at a card store it's commonplace to do it outside in the parking lot our out on the street, not inside the store. Just don't go down any dark alleys and you should be fine.

I really hope you enjoy your time over here. Let us know what you fine, Scott.

But, but, but....it's not possible....grumble....extrem e variance....grumble

Connecticut would've been there, but I ended up working 

Tom Dixon     David Ata   Raf Forino   Josh Butker   Jesse Martin
Josh Potucek   Scott Hughes    JP Kohler   Shawn Griffiths    Ashok
Mike Egan     Mike Hajduk   Scott Hughes  Vin Forino   Phil Spinella
Ryan Glackin   Brian Carey   Visna Harris   Allen Fulmer   Jimmy Hangley
Paul Mastriano   Dan Mason   Joe Brown   Greg Fenton   Ray Robillard

Bah, it had to be the 5th? I had planned on going to a wedding that day.....but a bye at a lotus tourney? Curse you Nicks. Maybe I can return my gift....

It's about time you had a special tournament for Karn's framed artwork.  Even if it's on Cinco de Mayo, I'll be there to claim him 

There were ALOT of workshop decks in the field.  Rounds 1, 2, 3, and 4 were all against fellow shop players and after ID'ing (rounds 5,6) into the top 8, I faced shops again. 

That's a good day when you're mono-red workshop aggro.

We're coming down from CT and as the Grudge Match proved, we're the best state in new england, so look out. (Yeah, we're still worse than NY/PA, but we're smaller'yo)

Things to be careful of when at a large event:

1) Professional thieves show up to these events.  YES! It's true.
2) Keep your bag zipped up and inbetween your legs at all times. 
3) When sitting, keep your shoulder straps wrapped around your leg.  When you're playing, you'll notice if someone grabs your bag. 
4) Only carry ONE bag with you.  If you have extra bags, leave them in the car/hotel.
5) Don't take multiple items out of your bag.  If you have a deck out, don't trade.  If you're trading, don't have a deck out.
6) Don't trade with multiple people at the same time.  One binder at a time.  Want to take a second binder out?  Put the first one back in and zip up your bag.
7) Don't leave anything with other players unless you know they'll replace the stuff if it gets lost/stolen.  Sure, you *trust* the people you know, but how responsible are they?  Can they afford to replace your collection if they lose it?  If not, then why risk it? 

You are responsible for your own stuff.  If it gets "lost", it's YOUR fault.  If it gets stolen, it's YOUR fault.  Expect every single person there of being a thief, out to get your stuff.  Above all else, be extremely wary of people without a backpack, or with an empty backpack.  The easiest way to steal a bag, is to not have one.  You pick it up and walk out.  Everyone there will have atleast one bag, so someone walking out with a single stolen bag doesn't get noticed at all, he looks like everyone else.  The next easiest way is to pick up a bag and actually put the entire stolen bag inside your own empty bag, then walk out with your own bag.  Camera's won't even catch the thief since you know what color your bag is, but he's not leaving with that bag on his back. 

Be careful and you will have a great time, be lazy and your day will be ruined.  Hopefully I didn't scare you, since large scale events are a ton of fun and you get to meet a lot of great people.  Have fun at the event, Scott.

Well, two people cancelled on me, so only two in our car now.  If anyone in CT is interested in going, contact me.  We're leaving from Waterbury at 7:30am.

I just want to say, "well done TO's".  I account for atleast 4 of the people who showed up to only a handful of events last year.  Living in CT, but having no Eternal scene whatsoever anymore (barring 4-6 days out of the entire year for a Straterbury), we have to drive 4-8 hours to any event, roundtrip.  That gives us a ton of options, but unfortunately that also gives us.....a ton of options.  Last year my car was coerced into going to more and more Legacy events.  Every single time I brought up a Vintage event, I was met with lukewarn or even all-out hostile reactions.  I could spend an entire day talking about the reasons why, but it doesn't matter as far as this post is concerned, all that matters is the result, which of course was  rare vintage appearances.  I've always considered myself a vintage player, but I've spent way too much time playing Legacy the last 2-3 years.  That will change this year. 

Coss, Det, Grimm (listed alphabetically), you will see my car at the MAJORITY of your events.  I'm finally putting my foot down and saying, "to hell with the people in the back seat who don't pay for gas, sleep the entire time while I drive them to events, then loan them money for which I never get paid back, just to hear them complain about how they lost and suck at magic, and then that they don't want to stop and eat on the way back because they don't have any money because they didn't win any prizes".  Wah, fucking, Wah.

Thanks for getting together and creating this series so that I can finally vent my frustrations and do what I really want to do, which is play vintage.

Full car from CT coming down.  We're really just going to NJ for Harold's, but we can play some magic on the way.

If you're gonna go anywhere near NYC, you might as well go an hour further and get the "best pizza in the world" in New Haven, CT.  If the 1-2 hour wait in line is too inconvenient, the second best pizza in the world is on the same street, too.  Pepe's has opened up a few other locations, but they suck in comparison.

http://www.pepespizzeria.com/
http://sallysapizza.com/

Replace my ELD wish Ashok please.

Andy Probasco        Mark Hornung            Matt Elias            Oli Beaumont            Brian Demars

Bill Copes             Steve Menendian         Matt McNally         Nick Detweiler          Stefan Ellsworth

Joe Brown            Ross Meriam              Paul Mastriano          Mike Lydon               Nick Coss

Travis Laplante       Andy Farias                 R. Forino             Scott Hughes             Rich Meyst

Eric Dupuis             Chris Pikula                 Joe Brown              V. Forino                Jesse Martin         

You guys make it sound like theft has only been a problem at Gencon.  Every single "major" event has tens of thousands of dollars stolen.  Don't carry multiple decks, don't carry trade binders, don't leave your bag with other players, don't carry a lot of cash, don't leave your wallet inside your bag.  If you're going to play in an event, bring a single deck and nothing else.  If you want to trade with your fellow players, then bring your trade binders, but nothing else.  Still want to play a game in between trades?  Then proxy up a deck to play.  Keep as few items/cards in your bag as possible.

It's a terrible thing that we have to suspect everyone, but there's obviously some level of organization involved in these thefts.  When you sit down to play a game, put your leg through the shoulder area of your backpack.  If someone tries to grab your bag, you'll know it because your leg gets yanked to the side.  Just about every theft I've heard about has been a spectator watching the game.  They'll watch, get as close to the table as possible, then use their foot to pull the bag out from under the table, all the while looking interested in the game.  As our cards continue to increase in value, these problem will also increase.  The fact that local police officers rarely take it seriously also makes it easy to steal.  Response times are slow, even then they want a complete list of all the cards that were stolen.  Your chance of getting your cards back is almost zilch.  You can get insurance on your collection while traveling, it's not cheap, but I suppose that until TO's start providing security guards at large events, then it might be worth looking into.  Maybe we should start requesting security/police officers at events from larger TO's.  They're expensive and it'll obviously come out of the already meager prize pool.

By the way, always look out for spectators without a backpack.  They'd look suspicious if they tried to leave the hall with two backpacks, so many thieves arrive without one, so when they leave with one, it's not suspicious.

I'm sorry you were one of the people who were stolen from Rich, this isn't directed at you, but rather at everyone as a general warning to watch your own stuff.  Many items are "stolen" because they're left somewhere and forgotten.  It only takes a minor distraction to lose thousands of dollars.