What about playing natural order--> progenitus in the sideboard??? Or oath of druids -->progenitus??
Is a non graveyard dependant win con.
thoughts?

I was thinking about the deck and i´ve found several things i consider interesting so i´m going:

First of all we have 2 win con so first match we are soooo fast that we can win easily.

For second and third mmatches with SDB i think we don´t need a "transformer deck" to win. In the side we can play krosan grip (leylines, cripts, ......) along with null rod i think is enough to win again.

Maindeck i think we can play wordly tutor (because our combo is a creature card) that is improved a lot with street wraith.

There are lot of posibilities of drawing any of the graveyard combo cards in opening hand (breath, sutured, lord, dread or even multiples moebas). I think we need an effective way to discard them. I´ve thought on :
Breaktrough, imp, tireless tribe, putrid imp, zombie infestation.......).

because new rules we´ll can reorder the grave as we wish, could be viable playing ashen ghul or something like that as another win condition? the deck has lot of creatures and reordering them in the grave let us to play every turn all ghuls we need to kill.

My thoughts. Any idea or suggestion?

Becuse we need to resolve a druid, why not playing vexing shuser? This creature makes easy to play druid uncountereable so we can play it for sure. About the second win condition i think tendrils of agony is the best option, you can always beat with your creatures and finish the game with tendrils.

PD: remenber we can hardcast LOE to win the game.

What do you think about the cards Nick plays and are not common like :

Knight of the Reliquary

and

Heartwood Storyteller

When i was building my GW deck i thought on both of this guys but costing 3 makes me think that they weren´t good enough in vintage to be played. Nowdays i don´t know what to think.

The knigh is a huge mosnter in this deck because between wastelands. fetchlands and canopys grows to infinite and can search for the waste effect when needed. The only problem is that it cost 1GW.

The stroyteller is a monstruous draw engine because is like a mistic remora with legs that attack while you are drawing tons of cards with the opponent trying to recover the table position.

The problem is that we have 14 creatures of 3cc (mindcensors, knights, ESG(well they couldn´t be counted as 3cc creatures but at the end they are) and storytellers). I think this is a lot. 

And the deck doesn´t count with one of the greatest creatures green provides (vexing shuser).

Sideboard i think could be improved and choke is a card i love to play in it.

I don´t like mishras in this deck because it´s very mana intensive and i think man-lands here are counterproductive.

Can anybody tell more about the deck, what where its match-up along the tourney, why nick chose that cards and so on.


Lot of thanks for the help.

Hi everybody,

I´m going to play this deck in a really big tournament soon and i would like to improve it as much as as i can (if it´s possible, of course).

I was thinking that Qasali pridemage is a very interesting card in this deck but i´m not self confident in which are the cards that must leave the deck in order to have room for Qasalis(Because perhaps most suitable could be trygon but i would like to have at least a couple MD).

Well, i think this creature fits in this deck perfectly, is a 2/2 or 3/3 for WG that provides 5-9 exalted hability to goyfs and selkies and can be used to destroy lot of stuff like time vault, voltaic key, and all kind of artifacts and enchantments  if needed. (if you have null rod and qasali in play a tezzeret´s deck must answer both of them to combo out so this provides you enough time to kill)

The only problem is what cards can be removed from the deck in order to play the qasalis. A first aproximation (i´ve seen it in other side but i don´t remeber who designed it, so thanks to him/her) could be :

3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (8):
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
4 Null Rod

Creatures (19):
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Meddling Mage
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Cold-Eyed Selkie

Instants (15):
4 Force Of Will
4 Stifle
4 Daze
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Hurkyl’s Recall

Sorceries (1):
1 Time Walk

SB
3 Children Of Korlis
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Trygon Predator
3 Swords To Plowshares  or PTE 

But i´m not fully sure that is optimal. I´ve tested it a little by MWS  because work doesn´t leave me enough time to test more but I have some ideas/questions about it.

We don´t have any way to find hurkill´s to answer inkwell leviathan everybody is playing against fish, so only 2 hurkill´s couldn´t be enough but we don´t want to draw them in multiples and is a solution so the right way would be to have anything to look for it, but 1 merchant scroll, 1 mystical tutor  could not be enough and don´t have room for them.

Another topic is that we only have 4 hard counters because daze is really good at the begining of the game but sucks in middle game. Besides of that good players can play around daze so i would like to try using negate/misdirection or something like that, but the problem is that i´m not sure about it at all.

I don´t know if 4 stifle is the best option because usually we want to play Noble in the first turn so we haven´t open mana to cast stifle when the opponent is craking his fetch to search for a basic. After that they are not as useful as before. What do you think about it. 

thoughts? Ideas?

What about playing trinket mage as a tutor for grindstone, explosives and so. Beside of that is a permanent you can sacrify with abjure and Perilous.

Hi everybody,
I was attemptint to create a deck with this card because i think is good enough to build a deck around it and it has lot of sinergy with lot of cards Vintage. The deck i was thinking about looks like:

4 Isla
4 Tundra
3 Flooded strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Sol ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus petal
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Shappire
------ 23 Mana sources

4 chalice of the void
1 Tinker
4 Force of will
2 Misdirection
4 Negate
4 thirst for knowledge
1 Ancestral recall
------20 Spells

4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Master of etherium
4 Esperzoa
1 Inkwell leviathan
-------13 Creatures

Please don´t suggest increasing more pieces of P9 becuase i would like to play the deck in non proxys torunaments and I only have the cards of P9 included in the list.

The deck has 4 free slots to fill with any card we consider good enough for the dech (as any changes we made on it).

I think the deck would be faster if we play ancient tomb/ city of traitors in order to play the zoa, master or anything in the first turn, but i don´t know if it would be good.

Another think i was thinking about is to play any creature that isn´t an artifact creature so if the opponent plays rebuild or hurkills we doesn´t lose everything on the way. I was thinking about sea drake, serendib efreet or Vendilion Clique.

Another thing i realised is that we had no removal maindeck so could be possible to play echoing truth, tariff, Curfew, STP, Rushing river, or so (I can think about lot of cards here, but which are the best??).

Thanks everybody, and please help me.

Well. in some scenarios is better to refueling the opponent deck putting IN THE BOTTOM (yes, fetches mixes cards again but til, then bombs remain on the bottom) than waiting with a lotus or so in the grave where can be easily replayed (bomberman, Y WIN,artifacts for weldering,.....). The only thing i don´t like about grunt is that they die alone, but in this case opponent´s goyfs will be very small to care about them. I like goyfs too but in this deck i see them as a win more card.

I don´t play trigons MD because there are lot of cc3 cards in the deck. My version looks like the one posted by stromanimagus, but with little modificactions:

Land (17):
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (8):
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
4 Null Rod

Creatures (19):
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Meddling Mage
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 JOTUN GRUNT
4 Cold-Eyed Selkie

Instants (15):
4 Force Of Will
4 Stifle
4 Daze
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Hurkyl’s Recall

Sorceries (1):
1 Time Walk

So as you can see there aren´t any Trigon MD .

Merchant, mystical and more hurkills is a good idea, but i´m not sure is the best because always is good to have several ways to handle a problem.

I´m not saying 4 stifles is enough to combat tendrils, for sure they´ll combo you out, but children of korlis doesn´t seem good to stop them too. I´ll test them but i don´t like them.

I was thinking about using a couple of lorescale coatl in the deck because we usually draw a lot so why no use that making a monster to eat the opponent(the only thing i don´t want is that it cost 3cc too).

I was thinking about the configuration of the deck and playing it against opponents and the wall and i realized that there are several things i don´t like at all. The deck is very funny and is good too but:

• 1. I don´t like tarmogoyfs in this deck. I´m going to explain it now. Everybody knows that tarmos are the best creature beating in magic but in this deck we want selkie beating with exalted for 2, 3, 4, 5 or greater so if we have goyfs on the table they are only chumpblocking creatures. Beside of that this deck doesn´t fill the grave very fast so goyfs grows slowly. I´m thinking of replacing the 3 goyfs with the Jotun grunt of SDB. The explanation of this change is the following. We doesn´t have anything to avoid a brutal yawgmoth´s (fow or daze, but usually decks with yawgmoth has disruption too) so if we have a creature that cleans the grave preventing the opponent cast a Y.Win and making opponent´s tarmos smaller is a good adition to the deck.
• 2. The only response we have to Inkwell is 2  hurkill´s Maindeck. I´m not ver sold of this being enough to avoid the inkwell plan lot of decks have. What about using a couple of tariffs or sculting steel or something to combat the octopus. I know we had 3 mindcensor on SDB but i think they are little slow sometimes and if inkwell is in play the doesn´t help enough to win the game.
• 3. What about playing a couple or three serenity´s on SDB to combat stax decks. I don´t like children of korlis on SDB because i think they are there to combat strom decks but we have 4 Stifle MD so why we need the children there wasting 4 spots of the SDB
• 4. What aabout playing a couple or so rancors (moldervine cloak os something like that) IN MD to maximize the selkie power to draw. In my testing this little girl make me draws tons of cards so why don´t improving this awesome hability to reach it´s maximum exponent?. 
• The sinergy between noble, qasaali and cold eyed is really awesome. What about playing any other exalted creature witn another nice ability in the deck?

Well, What do you think guys about all things said above?
Nice day.

What about combining this creature with goblin welder??
You can sac a mox to have a beater and a new card. And if you play more artifacts this titan can kill the opponent in an alpha strike.

Try sculpting steel. Is much better than membrane and helps you against inkwell and any artifact deck.
I´ll play goblin welder too to combo with shaman, and perhaps take out incinerates or so. 

Lot of thanks. I´ll try them and make public the results when open a new thread to talk about the deck with tombs and cities.

Well, i´ve always playing WU fish in T1 but now i want to test something new and because i´ve always loved blood moon, magus and so i´ve decided to test a deck with them. Red provides me lot of hate to overwhelm tier1 decks so i´ve designed a deck that is similar from yours but focusing more in red cards than in artifact cards so it´s possible playing it without workshops because there aren´t lot of artifacts i want to play. Welder (+ mox monkey) provides me a way to deal with artifacts.

In the deck the only artifacts i´m playing are rods, mox ruby, lotus and crypt. I´m thinking to use chrome mox too to have artifacts to trade with and help me to get hellbent fastly.

I would open a new thread but first of that i would like to play the deck in a real tournament to prove is good or not. The only testing i´ve done is by MWS and is not conclusive.

When i´ve open a thread please feel free to give any ideas you´ll have about the deck but for now if anybody want to help me in the design please send me a message or something like that.

Thanks and sorry.

Hi everybody,

First of all sorry for my English because i´m Spanish.

I´m testing a deck closer at yours. The deck will be played in a non proxy tournament and i haven´t workshops so i´ve had to use city of traitors and ancient tomb as colorless mana-sources. I´ve tested lot of cards in the deck (painters, juggies, ...) and finally i´ve decided not to play them.

The deck has lot of hate (4magus of the moon, 2 blood moon and 4 null rod) to destroy lot of strategies and uses gathan riders to put a fast clock. I´m playiing 3 mox monkey and 4 welders to complement it.

I tested mauler but results were very strange. If you can play it on first or second turn of the game it will be a monster and in this scenario is a very powerful card. The only problem is that is cost 2R so in the begining of the match is easy to daze it. The othr problem it has is that in middle late game is a very bad draw because youll have a 2/2 bear for 2R. It hasn´t any type of evasion so i´ve decided to remove completely them from the deck.

I´m trying lot of cards to make the deck as good as it can be and in this moment there are some cards i´m not sure about.

I´m trying figure of destiny because we can use the unsused R at the end of turn to make a monster on the table. They are not bad so probably the will remain on the deck.

Because i´m not playing triskelion (i´m playing rods over them) i´m thinking what can i play to kill creatures. In my deck is easy to get hellbent (and i like to get it because raiders become a 4 turn clock) so i´m trying lightning axe. It´s a very very very bada card but it had sinergy with raiders and welder (discard a robot with axe, kill opponent´s tarmogoyf, use welder to change mox with robot) is a very good situation. The only problem is that axes are only useful agaisnt fishes and decks with creatures. I´m not very sold of the quantity of this card will be neccesary to play.

I´m looking for a robot that could be used to kill the tier1 decks and that will be played via welder from the grave or from hand (cheap?). Paltinum angel doesn´t solve any problem, leviathan is blue (so we only can play it from the grave) and so.     

Now in the main i´m playiing a set of REB because they solves the problem of rebuild, hurkills and so. In testing they are being very useful but several decks like ichorid doesn´t care about it.

What do you think guys about alll of this.

What are Vectis Silencers? I´m looking for that card and i can´t find it anywhere.

I think it could be a very playable deck because two color can fill the bad things of the other. And you can vindicate !!!!!!!

Hello there!!
Nobody have answered about the deck i posted time ago? (page 2). Is it so bad that nobody likes them. I´ve been testing it and is good enough to be care of. There are any problems to solve (like graveyard hating) but it´s monocolored and with rods i can´t play tormod´s but i´m still thinking to solve the problem. Any other idea? Please tell me what do you think about it. thanks

I've thinking in a deck like the following:

// Lands
    1  Strip Mine
    4  Wasteland
    14  Snow-Covered Mountain

// Creatures
    3  Gorilla Shaman (1)
    4  Magus of the Moon
    4  Simian Spirit Guide
    4  Martyr of Ashes
    4  Figure of Destiny

// Spells
    2  Blood Moon
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mox Ruby
    3  Shattering Spree
    3  Dead/Gone
    3  Null Rod
    3  Pithing Needle
    4  Skred
    3  Red Elemental Blast


i think it can be good against almost every match up (the only card i would like to play is vexing shusher but i haven't room for it, so it could be in the side).

The deck is version 1.2 but have lot of hate to all decks are playing by now and i think it could be an option to consider when you are playing with TMWA.

Skred kills all fatties opponent can play for only one R, pithing, null rod and Magus are lovers to be afraid of because they hate a lot of cards tiers 1 plays. You have 3 REB (I've thinking to replace them with sirocco so opponent must discard ancestral, counters, thirst, etc or suffer lot of damage). Dead gone is only for DSC and shaman and shattering are for killing all artifacts people nowdays plays. Martyr of ashes is a huge card, she kills goblins, zombies, Little goifs, confidants, Magus, ....and so on. Last i have the figure of destiny which is a very huge card. For only R you can play a weenie that grows a lot by itself. Usually it would be a 2/2 or 4/4 and is a beater opponent must kill before it could transform itself in a autowin condition.

I'm thinking on including shaman's trance. What do you think about it? When the opponent says yawgmoth´s win, you can say nooooo, I'm going to play all instants of your deck and in the worst case op onenet can't plays the will to win because in response you can play it and plays nothing form his deck

Side is not complete but suppose i could play gargadones, pulverize, and faerie macabre (because tormos is not a friend of rod).

What do you think about my deck. Suggestions? Ideas??
Thanks.

i feel that now we must think on another direction. After testing the deck i´ve decided to play 4 cabal therapy, to cut maulers and shusers and try to win as fast as possible.

In my deck-list i have lines and therapies as disruption but i´m not sold on it. Why not using extirpate instead of lines? The reason for this change is the following. Because we had terapies we can make the oponent discard anything (that could be a win condition) and after that we can extirpate them so we had a similar effect  to the earwig squad ( i have 4 of them in my list too). Beside of that you can play 3 copies or two copies instead of the 4 of the lines. And if you draw it you surely can cast it (lines not). Beside of that players of flash can wait till can bounce your line to win but they are not prepared to an extirpate (usually they don´t play tgz or duress). The only situation in wich lines make me feel better is agaisnt ichorid (but you have prospectors, extirpates and fanatics to handle with them) and to a turn1 win from a flash player (but it´s not always as simple as that). I don´t know what to do so please any advice would be very well recived.


Another point to talk about is that i think we must run now in the main tin street hooligans but i don´t like them because:
1. If you have a warchief( what is good to us) you can´t play TSH to shatter an artifact.
2. We must include green to play with them.
I think we need an isntant artifact kill because painters and dreadnoughts  (and all stax types) people are playing now. I´ve tested with vandals (they are very bad) and with welders (they are bad too to this mission and if you play lines they don´t work well toghether) and with tinkerers (they are better than the others but is bad too) so i don´t know what can i use to solve that problem. Why none of the winners like Pikula, budde, etc. design a goblin witn 1cc that destroys artifacts sacrificing itself? It would be very well recived and make goblins to go to the top. XD XD XD.

Well thanks for reading and please make me know what do you think about all i´ve writed before.
thx

The problem is that we are running goblin warchief, and they are necessary, but if you play them you can´t play tin street because lot of times you wouldn´t be able to cast the G mana to destroy an artifact. I´m trying other alternatives like goblin tinkerer, but i don´t like them. I don´t know haow good are suhsing but it culd be fine to the control meta we have now.
If anybody have a real good decklist or any idea of how can we build a solid decklist please post it.

Have anyone tested vexing shusher on the way.
I´ve found this list on a recent tournament. It makes 4th place.

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
4 Earwig Squad
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Warren Weirding
3 Vexing Shusher
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Mogg Fanatic
2 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger

Lands (16):
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mountain
2 Taiga
2 Wooded Foothills

SDB
3 Extirpate
3 Krosan Grip
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Shattering Spree

About painters i don´t think so gempalm is the solution because you need 3 goblin on line to kill painter. The good thing about using gemplam is taht they can´t be countered so it could be a good choice but if you play vexing S. you probably can use weirdings or so.

Another thing i´m now thinking is that could be helpful playing cabal therapy NOW. i think metagame is changing to combo a lot so now could be time to play with therapies again.What do you think?

Have anyone a good deck list to comment?

Now i´m thinking how we can combat painter decks with goblins. I think so the only way to do it is killing painter very very fastly at instant speed and with a card you have no in play. using gaia´s blessing in the deck is not a solution because they can play leyline, stifle, estract, estirpate, jester, etc so we need to kill painter before they can play painter grindstone and run it. There are another complication with painter and is that if they play the painter and we can´t remove it fast, they´ll begin to blas all our permanents(lackey, lands, critters) and we´ll lose the game. How can we solve this situaion?? Think we can´t use any permanent (like null rod or so) because the play painter, blast null rod and play grindstone for the win.

thanks. i´ll be waiting for your answers

I think like you but not with ringleader. I like this guy, but he has 4cc and you usually are going to play it when you are making damage with lackey. Otherwise is a 2/2 haste for 4cc. The other problem with this guy is that if you have 36 or more goblins in your deck he is going to be a good drawing tool but using leylines and aceleration you are not going to play as much goblins anymore. He usually gives you one or two cards (great, my matron does the same but i can choose what i want) and casting it for 4cc is very hard.
I´m not saying is a bad card, the problem is that 4 of them are too much when you are playing in t1 i think.
I´ll be testing with one or two of them and will write here with results.

I´m testing now a card i always have loved. It´s goblin lookout. When you have a warchief and play it for a single mana giving all your dudes +2 /+0 is incredible. I´m playing with a toolbox (thanks to matron) of one of this dudes, one sharpshooter, one stingscourger and one RINGLEADER. Yes, i´ve been testing the deck and usually yow play the ringleader loooking for it with a matron(like i´m actually doing) but you don´t want to have 2 or 3 of them in your opening hand. Beside of that, people now plays lot of creatures in T1 so there are matches were lackey can´t hit opponent so your ringleaders asre in your hand and you are not going to play it for so long. Another reason not to play four of them is because if you play bitter ordeal, cabal therapy, leyline of the void, etc its very easy ringleader is not going to give you lot of advantage. (you have 18 lands + 5 mana sources (lotus, moxes, etc) + 4 utility cards (leyline, etc). they are 27 cards that are not goblins. Thiese are the reason because now i think 4 ringleader are lot of them.  I like taurean mauler but they have a serious problem. They cost three mana and the mana curve is so hight on cc3. You have 4 warchief + 4 matron + 1 sharpshooter (9 cards) + 2 maulers(11 cards). They are too much for this casting cost so i don´t konow if they are good enough to play with them and how much of them are the right quantity.

Ok, i´ll be waiting for your answers and observations.

Mantis:
We know you love Cabal therapy but reasons given by chief are very important. You say "if you are playing against..". but you don´t know what are you playing with until second game, so in first they are unuseful. If you are afraid of FOW, use vexim Shusher (the new uncountereable goblin) that make all your goblins uncountereable too. And against flash you have leyline of the void so flash must remove it (and fanatic) before trying to combo off.

Chief:
Can you explain a bit more the deck, wich cards are better than others, why did you choose them and why this number of them, the pairings, (why maulers are golden, why you use sharpshooter, etc. XD). Lot of thanks for your answer 

I´ve thought of replacing stingscourger with:
--> warren weirding.
--> Goblin welder.
--> goblin tinkerer.
--> tin street hooligam


All of them have disadvantages and advantages, but i can´t decide what´s better for the deck.

I don´t like stingscourger because when you cast it you are only buying a few more time and usually you can´t afford paying its echo cost. Beside of this it never attacks because dies before and sometimes it´s unusefull (imagine you have a tarmogoyf in front of you, you only can remove it for one single attack but sometines a few more is required.)

Warren weirding removes the danger but it´s black(we already have enough black cards in the deck to support more) and it isn´t a creature so you can´t attack with it. The advantages is that you can made piledriver becomes greater (sacrificing one of your weenes) and that you can kill big cratures like colossus, tarmos, platinum, etc. The problem is that if thew opponent has two or more creatures he is going to choose the worst of them.

Goblin welder makes the tinker plan unviable because if they use tinker you are going to bring his moxen again killing the monster at the same time. The problem is that it only serves you when the oppoent is playing tinker but is useless when he palys tarmos, dreadnoughts, Oath platinum, etc. But another advantage is that if opponet plays controlslaver(or any kind of staxx) you can control him with your own welders.

Tinkerer is goood removing dreadnougts(awesome), platinum, sundering, etc but it doesn´t save you from colossus so....


And hooligan is not bad but the deck has already black so making the manabase more fragile to play them i think is not a good solution.  (and he doesn´t kill colosssus too).

What do you think about? Any ideas??

I like gargadon. In fact i´m thinkint to put one copy on main because it can do HUGE ordeals that win the match instantly. Imagine a gargadon and an ordeal in your hand. I´ve been testing it (this time only me and the wall) and it can be superb.

So Gargadon rules!!!

The maulers are good too. IOf you play them fast they become bigger, enormous, giant, ....

On side i´m testing pulverize vs stax. It´ñs wonderful because it cleans all artifacts and then you can play a giant ordeal that puts almost the opponent´s deck on the grave. Wonderful.

Another good ideas or suggestions?? 

i´m not suggesting you must change one for another. Look at the deck that made a second place in a tournament of 45 person.

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
4 Earwig Squad
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Mogg Fanatic
2 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
3 Taurean Mauler


Lands (16):
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
6 Mountain
2 Wooded Foothills

3 Extirpate
2 Goblin Bombardment
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Shattering Spree



The only changes i´ve maid to the deck is changing the 4 LOTV for bitter ordeal and changing the side removing 2 goblin bombarment + 1 extirpate for the 4 LOTV. i´ve removed the sharpshooter and stingscourger from main to use 4 prospector on main.


As you can see this deck don´t use confidants, therapies, .....

i´m going to try to explain my thoughts in a better way. You said that therapies is the only way for the deck to survive third turn and so on. But when are you planning to cast therapy?
First turn prospector,
second fetch ordeal (you have removed 3 win conditions from the opponent´s deck) so what are you afraid of?

Beside of that therapy is only useful when you know what´s playing the opponent so if you like them you could use it in side nor in the main because in first mutch up are useless.  In staxx match-up therapies are not good too so i think they are not good enough for the deck.

Magus of the moon was an option to sideboard to fight vs GAT and decks with a bad manabase but i think if yu want them ithe mus come in in second game when opponen´t doesn´t expect them. Only in sdb.

I don´t like confidants on this deck because confidant is not a goblin, you can´t put it into play with lackey, you can reduce it´s casting cost with warchief (and it hasn´t haste too). You can´t not find it with matron, it doesn´t pump piledriver, etc. I´m playing with ringleader (only 3 of them) because this deck is not a control deck so you want to win as fast as you could. Confidant is only going to give you 3 cards (if you play it in first turn and you are going to take several damages too) till 4th turn when the deck MUST kill. With ringleader you can play ir for free(lackey) and it can give you 4 cards but usually gives you a couple or three. The only disadvantage of ringleader is that it cost 4 so lackey is required. But don´t be afraid, if lackey doen´t appear you can cast it with warchief very early.

As you can see i´m playing a goblins deck with ordeal and earwig because there is more sinergy and because it works good. I´m not saying that therapy or confidant are bad cards. I´m only saying that they are good cards but not for this deck.

I hope you understand what i´m trying to say.

I´ll be waiting for more answers. Please give your oppinion. 

I´ve been testing the deck again and i think it´s quite good. I´ve arrived to the next conclusions.

1) The goon are not good enough for the deck. Casting cost of 4 is very slow and they are very good if you play them by lackey, but not always is possible and then they are in hand lot of time.

2) i don´t like cabal therapy in this deck. I´m going to explain it before you blame me for saying such thing. The end of the deck is to play an ordeal or an earwig as soon as you can and preferibly on second turn. To do that you need to play a turn 1 prospector or have any aceleration (moxen, crypt, lotus, petal). If you have aceleration is ok (but remember you need a turn one guy to earwig so you are not going to play therapy anyway) but otherwise you will want to play turn one prospector turn 2 your threats go home. In this case you are not going to play therapy till third turn and by then you must have removed the win conditions of the oponent, so therapy is bad.

3) i´m running 4 warchief because if you begin with mana lackey, in second turn you can put a warchief with lackey and then play an earwig for two mana so it´s another way to remove threats on second turn.

4) i don´t like ringleaders (cc4 and in this deck you are not going to draw a lot with them) and i´m trying to cut matron because they are slow. (anyway, matron could stay but ringleader is not an option).

5) Dark confidant is not another good card for the deck because is not a goblin, you can take much damage easily (warchief, earwig, ordeal, etc.) and is not a goblin.

6) i´m going to give another chance to Taurean mauler because it´s a goblin that can hurt GAT and storm decks easily. it si not going to stop them but if they give you a turn this machine will eat your aponent saying "muuuuu".

7) I´ve tested skullclamp, mirror entity, tutors (vamp, demonic), and they aren´t good anough for the deck.

8) i don´t know what to do with goblin welder. It helps you to cast a bigger ordeal( i.e.changing mox for lotus) and save you from colossus but i´m not sure if they can enter here.

9) a guy that i think is very strong in the deck is magus of the moon. I´m thinking on playin it in main or side. They are great.

10) Can the new goblin of shadowmoor that made your spells uncountereable enter in the deck?

Ok, i´ll be waiting for your ideas and answers.

Hi again. I´m from Spain and in the last vintage tournament i´ve gone (40-50 players) there was a guy playing goblins with bitter ordeal. He was who gave me the idea of testing a deck with this card in it. He entered in top8 (he lost the match with a staxxx so i figure he made a 5 o 6 place on top8).

I think the deck can be a nightmare for combo decks and for decks like DT, Oath, flash, etc since they usually have 3 win conditions or so.

I´ve tested skullclamp but it doesn´t work fine in the deck.
i´ve tested confidant and is not bad but i don´t like him.

I think ypou must play or piledriver or any other big beater in deck because only having earwig to win is not a good idea.

I think 3 Ordeal + 1 in side is the right number of them because you usually only want to play one of them and win. Other you draw after the first will be very less powerful.

 any other ideas?


PD1: what about knucklebone witch?? it could be fine with any other kamikaze goblins.
PD2: I tested mauler but i still prefer goon.
PD3: what about  Sensation Gorger?  could it replace confidant? It could be fine because if you are few lucky you can use its ability to fin the ordeal or any other thing.

Well, the deck i´m playing now is solid and is more agressive then fish. I still play piledriver and warchief so i can play earwig, goon or piledriver and trust me, they are great killers. About playing vs Stax i use pulverize on the side. It´s free(ok, probably you´ll pay three mana for it because trinisphere or any sphere but it kills stax 4ever.).

Baubles are not good, i know it, but in this deck make you can play an ordeal of 4 or greater in second turn sio i´m still testing it.

You said about eat my wiil in an oath matchup, What wiil if i´ve removed it from the game wuith my oprdeal or the earwig?? oath usually plays 2 tidespout tirant a brainfreeze (and sometimes  a simic in the side) i can remove alll win cponditions for sure.

i don´t like confidant because isn´t a goblin (and my deck is more goblin oriented) and because it can hurt you a lot. Beside of this i don´t like ringleader because it cost 4 mana and in this deck usually you only draw 1 card or two with them, so i´m trying to find another replacemernt for them.   

if you want, tell me and  I´ll post my list here so you can test it and tell me what do you think about.