Myr Retriever:
"When Myr Retriever is put into a graveyard from play, return another target artifact card from your graveyard to your hand. "

Suppose you sacrifice Myr Retriever to another card, say Ashnod's Altar, can you use its ability to return itself to your hand? Or does "another target artifact" mean "besides Myr Retriever"?

or all you casual/multiplayers in the New England area, there's a gaming convention this weekend. There aren't any magic events scheduled, I believe, but I'll be there to play in the 40k event, and there are various RPGs running throughout the day.

http://ogc-con.com/

If anyone thinks they'll be in attendance, post here and let me know. I'd love to play some magic, especially Highlander or some of the other variant formats (Type 4 or Cube would be great, but I don't have one built). I'll be there Friday-Sunday, and you should be able to find me pretty easily (I'm the one in the 'Capt. Rob' hat).

You forgot to mention blue and green, which might be viable if you run all 9 of the "strip"-effect lands and terravore/tarmogoyf for the kill. Terravore will typically be over toughness 4 if he's worth playing.

Just making sure.

Suppose I play Chalice of the Void at 0 and Multani's Presence, then 12 kobolds (which all get countered).

Do the countered kobolds add to the stormcount for a brain freeze that may be drawn? Would my freeze go off with 15 copies (1 original, 1 chalice played, 1 multani played, 12 kobolds countered) or would it be only 3?

This situation seems very unfun. Is this rule necessarily to prevent an opponent from asking tons of silly game-state questions you -must- answer to waste time until the clock is up?

Add Gaea's Blessing to Ichorid? As Wizards prints more cards/mechanics that directly impact library manipulation, i.e. dredge, a card like this would become more effective, likewise with cards that trigger when they are placed directly from a library to somewhere.

I think having the card faceup in a library would more or less negate a need to put it in the same sleeves as your opponents deck, so using a clear sleeve (which I don't think get used too often at tournaments, but you could have some firetruck red and shiny purple ready to go) would more or less always allow you to identify the card.

I don't really see interacting with other faceup cards in the library as a problem, unless Wizards decides to keyword some abilities/special rules for faceup cards in the deck, but then we get into a a more tangential discussion.

It's not cheating if the card is face up in the deck, and everyone can see it? Card rules get priority over regular rules. I think that adequately addresses the card ownership concern, and it's a good warning to both players about what is coming up.

I think it'd be interesting to be able to throw a card of your own into an opponent's deck to mess with their combo/engine, or to throw a card into your deck at instant speed that might save you from losing. Is something off with that idea, or at the idea level is it alright?

Everyone seems to be more interested in the logistics of playing the card, which are some valid points, but that doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the card would be effective, or even if this effect might be "overpowered." This isn't really a similar issue to Shahrazad, because this card would take about as much time as a fetchland to play.

Because, your opponent doesn't get to cut your deck after you shuffle.

That's interesting, Nydaeli... but not quite what I was getting at. What if it read "Take a card you own from outside of the game and put it into target player's library faceup. That player shuffles his or her library."

What about Landstill in Multiplayer? Draining into a Disk is always fun, and everyone likes the guy who plays Standstill.

Suppose the wording was "Take a card you own from outside of the game and put it into your library. Then shuffle your library."

That kind of takes away from what I was trying to get it, which was a card like the opposite of Extract, but it would be easier to use. Would this sort of thing be useful?

Edit: the total wording would be
Twist of Fate

Instant
Remove Twist of Fate from the game.
Take a card you own from outside of the game and put it into your library. Then shuffle your library.
Draw a card.
"Sometimes you have to leave things to luck, you know."

Those are more the "logistics" of playing the card, they're not really relevant to what the card does itself. I think this is a useful ability that could provide for some interesting board interactions, especially if similar cards get printed to promote these sorts of combinations.

I don't think it's too unreasonable to borrow an opponent's sleeve to slip the card in, but I guess I'm probably wrong?

Twist of Fate

Instant
Remove Twist of Fate from the game.
Take a card you own from outside of the game and put it into target player's library. That player shuffles his or her library.
Draw a card.
"Sometimes you have to leave things to luck, you know."

I had two thoughts. What if you could throw Gaea's Blessing into your deck if someone was Brainfreezing you to death? Or throw Phage into someone elses deck when they were Oathing?

That's a great idea! You've got me skimming through the Mirrodin block now, looking for interesting artifacts.

Well, when the decks parts just sort of "click" during a game it becomes the one at the table people are usually trying to knock out. I usually don't end up winning much after people catch on to what I'm doing, so unless I could open with a Tangle Wire or a Trinisphere or something else to slow the game down, people will do what they can to knock me out... but I have fun being the guy people are trying to knock out. It keeps the game interesting, from my point of view, to watch the other people at the table try and make deals "I'll kill his tangle wire before your turn if you'll attack him with your dudes."

So I guess I'm looking for cards to effect everyone at the table. I consider cards like Memnarch and Mana Crypt to be more fun than effective, since it's silly to watch Memnarch steal things or to die from Mana Crypt damage (even though Crypt makes a turn 1 Colossus possible).

Cards I would consider adding for the sake of fun would be something like a Timesifter, which I'll probably throw in as a 1-of and see how it works next time I play. I'm willing to cut the "effective" cards for more"fun" options, so long as the deck stays competitive in a multiplayer environment.

So I wouldn't say I'm the top dog, but I do play a deck I've spent a while collecting cards for and like to update from time to time that puts out threats other people at the table have to deal with. Otherwise, a multiplayer game can become draw, untap, play land, read all the cards in your hand, go, which gets boring.

Does that sort of give you an idea about the cards I'm looking for?

Ophidian doesn't have evasion, which is why I mentioned the Adept. They seemed similar, except for my next point.


I was thinking more "dealing damage AND drawing a card" is somewhat relevant.


That's the thing. Is 1 more toughness and a slightly easier casting cost better than dealing damage, drawing, and a little life gain? Most of the cards that kill the 'phid will still kill the Adept, pyroclasm and shock would be among those that might only hit the Augury. And when you're blocking with the Adept, I don't know if the extra point of power is better than the toughness of the 'phid.

Those were the thoughts I had, just wondering. If I had the means, I'd probably run something similar to this deck.

What about Landstill? Is Drain/Disk too slow, even in an unpowered environment?

This is a deck I've been using for the past few years at my local card stores, it's undergone various tweaks and whatnot. What I am interested in is making this a "multiplayer control deck." Right now, it's built so it can lockdown a game with 2+ people and then win slowly with Factory beats or win quickly with Colossus beats.

I try to keep to the Type 1 restricted list, and some cards are in there for their "fun" factor over their "effectiveness" factor. I'd appreciate it if you could offer advice and input on artifacts that have a "mass" effect and would help lock the table down, so if you can see any cards that are strictly superior than a card on the list, or you don't get why something is in there, post a question and I'll answer the best I can.

Lands ( 22 )
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Brass
4x Mishra's Factory
2x City of traitors
2x Wasteland
1x Tolarian Academy
1x Strip Mine

Creatures ( 9 )
4x Goblin Welder
3x Sundering Titan
1x Darksteel Colossus
1x Memnarch

Artifacts ( 20 )
4x Tangle Wire
4x Smokestack
3x Crucible of Worlds
2x Sphere of Resistance
1x Trinisphere
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Vault
1x Mana Crypt
1x Grim Monolith
1x Mox Diamond
1x Zuran Orb

Spells ( 9 )
4x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Tinker
1x Crop Rotation
1x Balance

Do you think Ophidian will be replaced with Augury Adept in future versions of your decklist?