Have you looked at the dreadnought build involving Spoils of the Vault instead of Tainted PAct?  I think it is a turn faster, and is far more cinsistent.  Albeit, the chance of a straight up death increases compared to pact, but this is an aggro deck...i piloted it sans power to some pretty decent finsihes...

I personally enjoy the collosus, weaver, baloth set-up for the counter oath deck.  You still need to have answers in terms of board position against an aggro deck...

Just an idea...

I had been tinkering (i love puns) around with a George W. Bosh type build of a deck in recent weeks, and have been looking for some fun ways to make the deck ridiculous.  

In the Type One environment, I think using thirst for Knowledge, and Welder can potentially bust this card wide open.  The memory jar that was brought up earlier in this thread is a perfect example of using a high-cost artifact with a great benefit to advantage with such manipulation.  The only discrepancy between the two being however, that additional mana is required to imprint and therefore make use of the mirror.  Null rod, although not stopping the ability, DOES stop the re-useable imprint...

I will test further and post...PLEASE keep this thread going...I would love to hear more ideas on how to build synergistic card relationships on this potential gem...

I think you have a solid three-color build.  however, i think i might be hashing up an old argument, but I wonder if you are losing a little bit of efficiency in the deck by running the Library...

I will never argue that dropping a Library first turn can turn into some seriously broken card advantage, but its one card of 60.  The math dictates this will happen only about 11% of the time.  I know that there is card-drawing in this deck where the card could become useful as the game progresses, but without the UR fish type draw engines of Curiousity, Cloud of Faeries, etc., Im not sure that the percentage of times the Library isnt a dead card in your hand in the mid or late game is in your favour...

In terms of a suggestion to replace it, I havent put as much though out.  The 4th Strand might be the best option for you, as a first turn fetch is almost always a strong drop.  It definetly provides stability to your mana-base, and even strenghtens it in this case because of the 3 color build...your thoughts??

I started playing Type One because it is the environemnt that requires the most amount of mental exercise and strategizing in my opinion.  Desipte the ridiculous speed of the environment, there aare a lot of things to remember to sucessfuly win in the environment.  That, and the prizes AND the competition are generally ebtter...

@ jebus:

I couldnt agree with you more.  Despite the fact that there are great and far reaching implications for allowing CE cards to be allowed into tourneys, the first point you made is the most valid.

Play skill, and deck-building knowledge are still the most fundamental assets to any player in the game.  While access to a greater card pool certainly changes any potential deck or matchup, there still has to be a knowledge present to fully and correctly implement the usage of these OOP cards...

I have to question the logic presented in the argument...by the same token you are improving the chance that he can draw a FoW in seven new cards, would you not be increasing your odds of drawing what you need to finish the game?  Likewise, you are also getting yourself deeping into your own deck looking for the cards you need to pull off the win...I just dont feel I completly understand the decision for meditate over a draw 7.  you need to play for the win...

I have to agree...while hesitation is a card that can be valuable, it is FAR to situational to be a mainstay staple in a deck like Landstill.  Playing cards like stnadstill and hesitation are skilled choics to begin with, and I just dont see hesitation ever providing a benefit worth slowing yourself down in the early game when you would be much better off with a standstill OR an additional counter.  I prefer mana leak myself in the place of the hesitations.  Who is honestly going to play a bomb from their hand to get the hesitation off the board?  Its a different situation then plying thorugh a standstill and taking the chance that your opponent doesnt draw a thing...

I think this is the best posting of the deck so far...my suggestion for affinity would be to focus the engine of the deck around getting out a threat or two...the broodstars and the enforcers are both insane options with affinity, but Im curious if only 8 threats is enough, albeit there is a sweat amount of search.  

What are the possiblities of moving chalices from the main deck to the board in place of Mana Drains, and then adding a morphling or two in place of a few chromatic spheres (since in a two color deck with power you won't often need to filter mana, and there is a fair bit of card drawing slots)?  Thoughts?

Vengeur is a good deck, and I have piloted it to several decent finshes in recent tourneys.  However, I dont think that a fair enough weighting of the viability and success rating of Spoils mask is being considered here.

In terms of sheer power, and ability to drive an opponent onto the defensive MUST find an answer position, Spoils is a superior deck.  The base of disruption that is included in the spoils build is also very unique.  Having the ability to disrupt an opponents hand for a NONLAND with unmask on turn 1 before you play a single card out of your hand is pretty strong.  This enables you to play a very skilled game with what might otherwise be a straight forward aggro deck.  Also, the card Spoils of the Vault itself is very highly UNDERrated as to its usefullness.  A lot of the discussion i have observed and taken part in immediately focus on Spoils being used to only grab pieces of the combo.  The card is so versatile for finding you an answer in almost any situation, and statistically speaking is a pretty low risk compared to the benefits that it can offer.  On the same token however, I have to admit that the potential for disaster with Spoils is substantially higher than that in Vengeur, purely based on the black card selections.  It becomes a balancing act of risk/security vs. tempo matching/game control.

I personally feel that Spoils is the better of the two decks at present, given that it can be so explosive, that there isnt a single matchup that would be considered poor or an autolose.  in my playtesting, the hardest matchup is BR fish, although even then its approx. 60/40 in favor the curious critters...

hope this helps you a bit in your analysis of deck choice...

I like some of the basic concepts in the deck, but I need to ask what would be an ideal start in your mind?  A duress first turn is obviosuly a viable option as it would be in many decks, but in all truthfullness, I dont see enough first or second turn options that could pose threats to a competitive deck?  Has phyrexian negator been considered as an early threat??

I REALLY like the synergy between Squee and Chains...cant say Ive ever thought of that before...

I fail to see how your deck will realiably answer any threats your opponent may put on the board in the early game.  You have to remember that in Type one, even a tempo loss of one turn can be the difference between a win and a loss.  I see that you do play with some ways to slow an opponent ie. force of will, but i think the lack of redundancy in your combo pieces will really cost you a lot of games by utilizing the mechanics (ie. pitdching cards), that make your answers viable for the deck.

To fix the deck, Im not sure i can really give a whole lot in the way of sugggestions.  I think the combo that is used to "imprison" your opponent is not even close to reliable enough or foolproof to give you the consistency you need to be a competitor at the type one level.  When playing a deck that needs multiple pieces to lockdown an opponent, the numberof cards that do about the same thing need to be maximized to give any sort of reliability to your deck.

If however, you do have a penchant for playing the lock type of deck, I think there are some excellent options, including the mud, stax, slavery, and george w. bosh decks that have excellent synergy with the cards that rae fundamental to the lock.  the primers and articles that are posted in the Vintage forum give very detailed analysi (?) of the tier one prison decks.

i can say 100% for sure that anthologies had the original symbol BUT are whitebordered...

I think both builds have an upside and a downside...by adding green i feel there is an increased CHANCE of going off a turn earlier, but on the same token, you have to take into account that the manabase has to be altered slightly as well, which very well may offset the CHANCE of going off a turn earlier.  Playing with taigas, karplusans and fetches helps, but adds a dynamic of play to the deck that isnt there in a mono-red version.

It is of note as well, that is just as feasible in terms of the redundancy in combo pieces between both builds, that the odds are about the same of comboing with a charbelcher/recruiter as it is food chain/recruiter/ringleader...it basically comes to preference, although I would lean a touch towards the monored build as being a little more consistent, if in nothing more than the stability of the mana base.

i think the new card Trinisphere can be looked at for a spot here potentially as well.  

I admit due to the lack of power it makes the negative almost as great to you, but it can definetly by you enough time to set-up the lock against an aggro deck when you have workshops on the board...

I think an interesting argument might be made for Spellweaver Helix as being an unbroken gem...Damping Matrix as well...

I wonder if anyone thought to use Reset as a unique way to potentially offset the negative lock effects on yourself?  

I was also curious about only using 3 of each of the true "lock" pieces...does this provide enough redundancy in lock parts throuhgout the build of the deck to ensure consistency?  My playtesting results (1000 simultions) showed a 4.68% decrease in the likelihood of having one lock component over the other by reducing the number from 4 to 3?  To me, this would probably result in a slightly (but probably significantly enough) increase in the times that a mulligan is necessary.  I think the deck is being hurt before it even tries to look at its matchups...

thoughts, comments?

Hey:

My name is Chris Moon, and i from a small town in Midwesterm Ontario, Canada.  I have played MTG and have benn addicted as they say, since I was about 12 years old.  

My scene is amongst the most active and competitive from what I gather by reading other posts.  My home town, as well as several other large cities hold frequent events in EVERY format that the game has to offer.  Competitve T1 is my favourite environment in which to compete, and I definetly have some great competition to learn from...including dicemanxx, shockwave, bebe, balzary, and many more too numerous to include in this list.  I wouldnt consider myself to be in the same play skill bracket as most of the people on that list, but am constantly improving.  

I am always on the lookout for that "secret" tech that will give me an edge in the ridiculously strong metagame i compete in, and will always have a love for the game.  My current decks I compete with on a regular basis are Dragon and SpoilsMask, depending on what i think the metagame will be more likely to feature.  I hope I can be of assistance (even if its marginal) to anyone and everyone on the site...smity_c@hotmail.com