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1  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: New Mulligan Rule on: October 07, 2015, 10:35:23 am
So what implications do you think the new restricted list will have on the new mulligan rule?
2  Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Free Article] Dredge: The Once and Forever Boogeyman on: October 06, 2015, 01:11:37 pm
Fit 4 Gitaxian Probes in there before you start calling your lists "optimal."

Also, what art is that with the caption "No hope, no resistance, only Dredge?"
3  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Treasure Cruise on: September 16, 2014, 03:34:19 pm
New Ancestral
U
Sorcery

As an Additional cost to play New Ancestral, remove your graveyard.
Draw 3 cards.
You cannot play New Ancestral in the first three turns. You cannot play New Ancestral if you played a New Ancestral card in the last two turns.

I think this is pretty close to what the card does - not talking about tiny differences and the occasional first turn that could enable it. I helps me understand the card better, and I think I'd almost never play such a card in any of my decks. If you factor in that the real card might be even more restrictive than just "wait three turns" .... I don't see it.

Are you serious? You wouldn't play the card you just described? How reliably can you Snapcaster Ancestral before turn 4? And even then it still costs 2U vs U. And you can never do it again..

I have snapcastered turn 1, turn 2 and turn 3 a lot - and I don't even like Snapcaster and never force it by playing the full set. The thing in Vintage is that you want to have strong lategames in some decks, but you don't wanna have an insane mana draw (which is what the format is about in my view) and just do nothing because your cards are turned off in the first few turns. I'm not willing to work for +2 cards when I have options that can be used in the first two turns consistenly and are almost as good (see: thirst, night's whisper, preordain, etc.).

And a word on Jace: If Jace could not be played turn 1 or turn 2, it would see play only in the slowest control decks, maybe as a one-of. Jace is broken because you can play it turn 1 or 2 and be in a position that is as close to winning as it could be. Of course you can't rely on that, but it happens and wins you games.

I would say that you want to have a strong mid-late game in some decks, without sacrificing the early game too much. The main problem with this card is that it is pretty bad in the opening hand. Much worse than fact/gifts/jace/impulse.

Yawgmoth's will is pretty bad in your opener, I've never heard people say you shouldn't run it because of that reason.
4  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Tormenting Voice on: September 12, 2014, 03:54:48 pm
This card saw no play when it was named Wild Guess and it will see no play now.
 
Dangerous Wager does look worse and worse with every new red card printed though, huh?

Dangerous Wager is better than this. Just play it as your last card in hand and it's discard 0, draw 2. This card is better than Wild guess, but still unplayable.
5  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Dig through Time on: September 12, 2014, 03:01:55 pm
I mean let's just roll back here a second and realize that even the naysayers of this card are basically only comparing it to cards from the restricted list.

I'm not sure I'm a nay-sayer as much as I am mildly skeptical, but I think you misinterpret the comparison.  By and large the only cards we use in Vintage for drawing and tutoring cards are restricted or named Gush or Impulse.  So any card that tutors or draws is going to be compared to them; the price of admission in Vintage is being better than these existing options in some reasonable circumstance.

First off, where do you play that you see competitive decks running Impulse? Secondly, please stop comparing this card to impulse, they are not even close to being similar. Just because they both dig dies not make them similar cards. This gets you 2 cards for the price if one.

Imagine if these cards existed:

U instant - draw a card. Unplayable
U instant - draw 2 cards. Would be restricted.
6  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Dig through Time on: September 12, 2014, 12:32:37 pm
Well, hello to you too, good sir.  Nice to meet you.

Anyway, the proof is in the pudding.  So, if you have faith in these cards, brew with it and prove everyone wrong.  It's not like anyone here will argue with actual results.  Heck, with Vintage being online, the data should flow like water and we'll know in a few months whether these cards work or not.

That being said, yes, this card draws you the best two of your top four.  It's a tutor with card advantage.  Sure.  And you bring up one situation in which you WOULD rather have this than Demonic: you need to get both a win condition and a counterspell to back it up.  That's fair.  I'm not sure that that alone is enough to warrant replacing your tutor with this, since you can't use it early game, but it's an answer to the question.

The card digs 7, not 4. And gives you 2 cards. And it's an instant, and you can often times play it for UU. It's not even comparable to demonic or mystical except that they are both MTG cards. But if you really need to hear more arguments on why this card might be good, first if all the 2 cards I mentioned are both restricted, secondly, if you've played as much Vintage as I have, you know that a great way to lose is to get the spell you Mystical'd or Vamp's for countered. Any time you get 2 for 1'd early on in a control mirror you set yourself way far behind.

I'm still trying to figure out which card is better between this and Treasure Cruise. Probably Cruise but I think a 2/1 split might be the best fit. These cards should be restricted but obviously won't be because there is not enough competitive Vintage being played to yield size able results that would prove they're too good.
7  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Treasure Cruise on: September 12, 2014, 12:21:36 pm
New Ancestral
U
Sorcery

As an Additional cost to play New Ancestral, remove your graveyard.
Draw 3 cards.
You cannot play New Ancestral in the first three turns. You cannot play New Ancestral if you played a New Ancestral card in the last two turns.

I think this is pretty close to what the card does - not talking about tiny differences and the occasional first turn that could enable it. I helps me understand the card better, and I think I'd almost never play such a card in any of my decks. If you factor in that the real card might be even more restrictive than just "wait three turns" .... I don't see it.

Are you serious? You wouldn't play the card you just described? How reliably can you Snapcaster Ancestral before turn 4? And even then it still costs 2U vs U. And you can never do it again..
8  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Dig through Time on: September 12, 2014, 12:10:23 pm
It's probably better than Mystical Tutor and Fact or Fiction in many situations.

I think this is absolutely the correct question to ask.  Is this card actually better than a tutor effect? 

Fact or Fiction, as a semi-tutor, never gets cheaper than U3.  So it's easy to construct a late-game situation where Dig is superior because it only costs UU and even potentially avoids shop lock pieces.  That's trivial to explain away.

But I still don't see any compelling reason why Dig -- on it's best day, when the yard is full of chaff -- is really better than tutors.  The only edge it has over Demonic is that it is instant speed.  The only edge it has over Vampiric and Mystical is that you get the card right away, but since you can do this right before you draw anyway, that's just paying U to draw a card on top of the tutor.  I think you have a harder time justifying running Dig over these cards that you're giving credit for.

Assuming you can't really explain why you would cut tutors for Dig, the next question is whether you run both.  Is there a deck out there that would really want that kind of effect badly enough to add a fourth or fifth conditional tutor like that?

Oh my god, the card is not just dig. How hard is it to understand that it gets you not one, but 2 cards?? The card advantage combined with the dig effect is what makes this effect so powerful. Mystical Tutor us card disadvantage, and FOF/Gifts cost 4 mana. Have you even had to counter something to not lose the game? If you FOF, Gifts, or Mystical into a drain, you either don't get it in hand it you don't have the mana to cast it. This and Treasure Cruise are the first Vintage cards to actually get my excited that have been in the past 6 years. The arguments people are making against these cards are just plain stupid. In fact, I just remembered why I haven't even bothered to visit this site in half a decade. I'm done. You guys have your heads up your ass.
9  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Dig through Time on: September 12, 2014, 11:34:26 am
has tombstalker seen vintage play?  No.  But it does see play in Legacy, and it is used primarily in black delver variants to get the edge over delver decks that don't run tombstalker.  So if the metagame continues to shift to more creature based decks in vintage, Tombstalker seems reasonable.  

Dig through Time also seems reasonable.  I'm not sure if it's good, but it certainly is powerful if you can cast it.  

5/5's don't matter in vintage. Ancestral Recall>>>Tarmogoyf. Sorcery speed BB is also much worse than Sorcery speed U or Instant speed UU.
10  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Dig through Time on: September 12, 2014, 11:30:12 am
Jesus, another bomb for big blue. I think everyone is grossly undervaluing these cards. I'm not sure which one is better but they are both way better than cards where you have to pay a lot of mana like Gifts, FOF, and Scrying. The effect is not even close to Impulse. If Impulse drew you 2 out if the 4 it would have been restricted way long ago. After life points, cards in the graveyard are by far the most expendable resources. I think everyone is underestimating how fast graveyards fill up. Casting this EOT for UU and then main phasing Cruise for U is not even far fetched.

That's the thing.  These are potentially late-game mega bombs the same way that Ancestral Recall and Demonic Tutor are, but they're constructed in a way that makes them unable to function in the early game.  We're all wrestling with whether that makes them playable or not.

I'm pretty sure you can easily pull one of these off turn 4 with drain mana open, something that Gifts and Jace do not allow you to do.
11  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Dig through Time on: September 12, 2014, 11:01:37 am
Jesus, another bomb for big blue. I think everyone is grossly undervaluing these cards. I'm not sure which one is better but they are both way better than cards where you have to pay a lot of mana like Gifts, FOF, and Scrying. The effect is not even close to Impulse. If Impulse drew you 2 out if the 4 it would have been restricted way long ago. After life points, cards in the graveyard are by far the most expendable resources. I think everyone is underestimating how fast graveyards fill up. Casting this EOT for UU and then main phasing Cruise for U is not even far fetched.
12  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Treasure Cruise on: September 11, 2014, 09:17:02 am
Is this really that good? Sure, drawing 3 cards is nice and all but this completely takes you away from Yawg Will late game. I'm not sure I'd give up Will in order to draw 3 cards, when Will can often let you do just that by reusing everything.

I played 4cc back in 2005 with 3 Scryings and Yawgs. They worked against each other but it didn't matter, they still both won games and once you draw 3 extra cards, the GY fills back up very quickly. This card is an absolute bomb and is an auto include in any big blue deck not running Confidant. I'll be using anywhere between 1 and 3.
13  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Sea Stompy on: December 21, 2013, 05:27:01 pm
I would add Mox Sapphire, Brainstorm, Thirst for Knowledge, and fetchlands.
14  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [COMM] Toxic Deluge on: November 11, 2013, 07:46:01 am
This is an auto include as at least a one-of in every blue control deck's SB and a 4-of add to every Vintage player's collection.
15  Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Free Article] Theft: The Game Has Changed on: May 17, 2013, 09:58:46 pm
For what it's worth, I think this is an additional avenue of leverage on the Reserve list, and the general unstated policy of not-reprinting to reduce card value.  (Even Modern Masters has been described as a quite limited print run testing the waters for additional reprintings.)

Players have the right to tell large tournament organizers (SCG) and WotC that they're not willing to risk their safety or financial well-being to play a game.

Yes, the cards have always been meant to be collectible, but people are getting hurt and people are losing tens of thousands of dollars.  Why does that have a place in our game?

No ring of organized thieves is salivating over the chance to steal chess pieces.

Are you saying we should devalue cards so that people are less likely to steal them?
Yep.  That's ONE benefit of 'devaluing' cards.  The other benefit is that the barrier to entry would fall, so that: 6 person tournaments become 20, 16 becomes 40, and 50 becomes 200.

I mean, I'm in favor of having greater attendance and less theft.  Do you have some other priorities?

I'm not even going to justify this with a response.  You're silly
16  Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Free Article] Theft: The Game Has Changed on: May 16, 2013, 10:00:51 pm
For what it's worth, I think this is an additional avenue of leverage on the Reserve list, and the general unstated policy of not-reprinting to reduce card value.  (Even Modern Masters has been described as a quite limited print run testing the waters for additional reprintings.)

Players have the right to tell large tournament organizers (SCG) and WotC that they're not willing to risk their safety or financial well-being to play a game.

Yes, the cards have always been meant to be collectible, but people are getting hurt and people are losing tens of thousands of dollars.  Why does that have a place in our game?

No ring of organized thieves is salivating over the chance to steal chess pieces.

Are you saying we should devalue cards so that people are less likely to steal them?
17  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Rumors/Previews/mtg.com articles on: May 09, 2013, 07:44:24 pm


Sexy.

Wah wah waaaah.

New Slivers are just kind of a slap in the biscuits, aren't they.  They don't look like old Slivers, they don't act like old Slivers... the only thing that makes them Slivers is their creature type.  I'm all for innovation but Slivers work on certain principles.  This makes them identical to every other modern tribe ever, except they exist in too many colors.

Agreed, what a dumb, ugly magic card.
18  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Best of the Best on: April 30, 2013, 01:47:47 pm
Why is artifact mutation not in here?
19  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: RIP Quinton Hoover on: April 21, 2013, 09:43:16 pm
I'm sorry, but what did he die of?
20  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Ral Zarek on: April 08, 2013, 09:02:06 pm
This card is really really strong...in draft
21  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Old frame cards on: April 07, 2013, 08:05:51 pm
I've been trying to draw interest in playing a format where you can only use cards printed before the new frame (reprints with the new frame would be legal).  The argument that I always get is that it would never change since the card pool would always be the same but I think it would still be a lot of fun.
22  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Alleged Magic jackpot found on: March 21, 2013, 08:24:13 am
Wow, I'd probably pay the 5 dollar shipping if they wanted put the buy it now price at 0.
23  Vintage Community Discussion / Card Creation Forum / Re: Created some funny Super Mario Bros 3 Cards on: March 14, 2013, 08:33:03 pm
There are awesome!  i would make the starman a common.

1-up Mushroom (rare)
0 - Artifact
T, sacrifice: You gain 1 life.
''What did you expect it would do?!''
 
I thought that this would say "If your life total would be reduced to less than one, sacrafice 1-up Mushroom and reset your life total to 20.  Remove all damage from the stack.
24  Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Free Article] So Many Insane Plays -- Rogue Hermit: The Fastest Deck in Vintage on: February 18, 2013, 09:37:29 pm
Also, why play 1 SSG maindeck and 4 ESG, instead of 4 SSG and 1 ESG?  How can you reliably cast ETW with that configuration?  That mana configuration doesn't even make sense.

You cut the Pact/ESG package when the ETW package comes in, since both are horrendous for your storm count.  In fact, for future brews I would place much less reliance on Summoner's Pact as a method of fixing your mana if you want to include Empty the Warrens in your maindeck.

Flash was largely irrelevant, as I drew it once after I had already mulliganed to oblivion.  I can't say for certain if it was good or not, but having the 4th Gitaxian Probe is a reasonable consideration.

The deck does want the 4th Informer and wants the 2nd Cabal Therapy, but it also wants to pack Force of Will as a way of fighting disruption.  As much as I want Mental Misstep to be relevant it simply isn't.

DON'T PLAY THIS DECK EVER, but if I configured it with the knowledge I now have, I'd run this maindeck:

4 Balustrade Spy
4 Undercity Informer

4 Narcomoeba
1 Angel of Glory's Rise
1 Bridge from Below
1 Dread Return
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Wild Cantor

4 Force of Will
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Pact of Negation
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Flash

4 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Cabal Ritual
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Opal
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Sol Ring

I like your build, but didn't you say Flash was irrelevant?  Also,  How do you win with this kill if the opponent has blightsteel colossus in their deck?  Don't they draw him for turn and then on your turn you go to draw and lose?
25  Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Free Article] So Many Insane Plays -- Rogue Hermit: The Fastest Deck in Vintage on: February 14, 2013, 10:12:48 pm
Gitaxian probe might be a great inclusion to help storm up with ETW, and also works well with Cabal Therapy.  Street Wraith is also helpful if your usiing the Sutured Ghoul kill and need more power to trample over an opponents blocker if you've exiled a bunch of Spirit Guids already.
26  Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Free Article] So Many Insane Plays -- Rogue Hermit: The Fastest Deck in Vintage on: February 13, 2013, 10:58:21 pm
"Against a control opponent, you can play Leyline and cast Empty the Warrens before they get a turn.  Without Mindbreak Trap, there is nothing they can do."

- Doesn't the game begin in the opponents first main hence why there is no draw for the turn?  If so, they have priority and if you put a Leyline of Anticipation into play, the obvious move is to start with a land since it doesn't use the stack.
27  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Illusory Angel on: February 12, 2013, 11:27:28 pm
Yeah, I'm with Duck here.  This is a fine card, but it seems like just another in a long line of awesome 2U fliers that see no play. We got:

Serendib Efreet
Sea Drake
Esperzoa
Fettergeist
Illusory Angel

All of these are good.  Esperzoa seems the best right now, since it dodges Thorn and Golem, can tinker and be tinkered, and potentially generates mana.  One of my favorite things to do is run a Grixis fish deck that has Tangle Wire.  Set up your upkeep stack like: Tap->Bounce->Fading, so you Fade, then bounce the Wire, then tap 3.  Hopefully you can replay the Wire and keep your opponent stuck under maximum wire-age.  If you have Hex Parasite at the party too, then you can avoid tapping anything. 

Anyway, Illusory Angel seems fine, but there are times you won't be able to cast it.  When you do, it's just a beat stick.  All said and done, I just don't see how it gets there if its competition does not.

Why wouldn't you set up the stack as Bounce, Tap, Fade so that you can tap the wire before bouncing it?
28  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: What's Your Favorite? Worst Card Art Edition on: February 11, 2013, 04:57:19 pm


Cavern of Souls naming ... Fungus ... no ... Demon ... no no ... FUNGUS.

Wow oh wow! I did not know they made a card this awful! My least favorite art would probably be Dark Confidant. If they switched it with the original Sengir Vampire I would rock 4 of them in every deck I play.
29  Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: Building around Izzet Charm on: February 03, 2013, 09:33:01 am
Yeah, I noticed that when I started building the deck to test.  I had a long testing session today and it didn't really go anywhere so I didn't update the list.  I ended up with one Welder being a good number and Izzet Charm being pretty bad.  In the end, it ended up just being another typical blue deck once the Charms got cut and the Welders trimmed to one.  If I was playing against a bunch of two toughness creatures or 4 Jace decks all day, Izzet Charm would be better.  Taxing a 4 mana spell is pretty good and having 4 removal spells against Fish is good but the deck sucked against Shops and other blue decks.  I didn't play against Oath but I imagine it's not very good with 4 Welders and 4 Flusterstorm with no way to remove a resolved Oath.  With Vault-Key cut, you can't even goldfish them.

Based on your testing it sound like izzet charm isn't the card to build a deck around but do you think it is a good one of utility card for blue or was it just crap all together?
30  Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: Building around Izzet Charm on: February 02, 2013, 11:47:21 pm
Cool deck idea, gotta get some underground seas in there, city if brass might fit in well too
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