i have played mono black stax in legacy in the past so some of this should transfer over nether void is the nuts and ups the amount of 3 spheres you can run, when playing legacy the basic concept for my deck was either throw out an early stax effect( ran 8) or get out a 3 sphere (ran 6, 4 trini and 2 nethervoid). skull clamp is quite strong but i think it starts to take away from the stax concept because chalice at 1 is super strong and what lock peices do you take out for it, im not saying blossem and bloodghast dont belong im just saying it might be tough to fit them in and still have all the lock peices you want, hope this helped

ok so it seems that everybody agrees that the green and red should be cut so i made the following changes.

-1 intution
-skeletal scrying
-ancient grudge
-recoup
-regrwoth
-fact or fiction
-tropical island
-volcanic island
-2 misty rainforest

+1 jace
+2 thought seize
+ imperial seal
+ grim tutor
+4 polluted delta
+1 swamp

So now that the mana base has been turned into only blue black we are less afraid of wastelands. The idea behind the change is to add more mana sources and tutors and cut down on the off colour and mana heavy cards. The reason behind adding the tutors is that if intution is not getting the win or Ak then you want tutors or mass card advantage. Intution can now find 3 jaces or three tutors and come ahead. i like imperial seal because the deck powers through its cards so fast that top deck tutors dont feel like card disadvantage, Grim tutor i still need to test but 2 colour mana base and able to get some amazing things sounds good to give it a test. The less colours the more focused we are so now there is room for 2 thought seize. DA i personaly jsut do not like because it loses life which is bigger now that we added 2 more lose life tutors and thought seizes plus its a sorcery which the only other draw spell that is in the deck is jace. I am going to try and put some match results up but it might be slow due to school mid terms, thanks for the advice all of you and i hope to get some on the new deck list. Also any opinions on me cutting fact and scrying? fact was hard but another jace seemed good and scrying well thats just a personal favorite and i actualy like it over thirst which has gotten some good disscusion with my play group.

   Thanks to the admins for helping me to realise my mistakes, I do want to be able to help the community so im going to take another crack at a previous post, How ever before I start i would just like to say that the last warning came off as quite rude to me and I ask that anything that may happen in the future is dealt with politely.

   The idea behind this deck is to mimic the old power of unrestricted gifts. I am trying to do this through the use of intution which is generaly worse than gifts but can do many the same things, as well as a few things that gifts can not do. So to start we must look at why gifts is good. The ability to search four restricted cards and get two of them is the most obvious, Now lets look at some of the others. Gifts was able to find piles that if you had  an advantage could just push you way into the lead. An example would be gifts for duress,thought seize, force of will , mana drain. This is not the most exciteing set of cards but getting at least two cards that will slow down the opponent. Other piles could be pure card advantage such as Ancestral recall, jace, fact or fiction, gush.

   So now that why gifts was so strong has been said we need to talk about why intution can mimic gifts. Again lets start with the most obvious it can get three broken cards, While true that tradeing intution for one restricted card is not nearly as good as getting two it is almost always good enough to be worth it, And of course there are cards that can reverse this anyway yawg will, regrowth, recoup ect. So now im going to talk about how you can just win, So there was the classic pile with gifts that was tinker,time walk,yawg will, recoup/ regrowth. So the idea is that you could just tinker and timewalk and swing, intution can do the same thing except from personal experiance reoup is better because it lets you get every thing, Time vault would be easier to put together nowadays.

   The difference is clear now and yes intution is weaker but is it really so much weaker that it cant do nearly the same things? It can also do somethings that gifts cant, finding three of the same cards can be very important depending on the situtation. There have been many times when i have cast intution to get 3 mana drain and it has saved me from dieing on the spot. Also we can run AK with intution. Now normaly i am not a fan of this card, but in decks that would run intution anyway such as the gifts style deck i am describing it becomes more apealing because we are doing the reverse of the normal thing. Alot of deck that run AK run intution to grab Ak but the ability to get three cards is powerfull enough on its own that gifts style decks could run it evenn if Ak did not exist. In closeing i made a list that can use intution as a very powerfull tutor engine and does much of what i described above ( this deck is designed for a local meta where MUD is underplayed and blue based is the norm)

4 force of will
4 mana drain
3 intution
4 accumalated knowledge
2 jace tms
ancestral recall
brainstorm
mystical tutor
chain of vapor
vampiric tutor
skeletal scrying
voltaic key
merchant scroll
timewalk
demonic tutor
ancient grudge
recoup
regrowth
time vault
tinker
yawgmoths will
gifts ungiven
fact or fiction
myr battle sphere

sol ring
mana vault
mana crypt
lotus
5 moxs
mox opal

LOA
tolarian academy
4 underground sea
tropical island
volcanic island
2 islands
2 misty rainforest
2 scalding tarn

This deck can pull way ahead very earily runs slightly more artifact mana than normal and can set up stage wins where you may have to take 2 turns to put everything together but is quite difficult for another player to fight through. There is no sb posted because agin this is a local meta deck but it does have forest,mountian 3 grudge and a rebuild for mud which is by far the worse match up. hope this is up to TMD standards and i hope people will share there thoughts on either the idea of mimicing gifts or the deck list.

so i have been playing a gifts style deck for a while now and thought i would share and ask peoples ideas. Basicly its the idea that gifts is the most insane restricted card cause it can find the rest so i tested intution and though it is weaker i dont think its so much weak as to make it bad

regrowth
recoup (makes gifts insane)
ancient grudge (just a solid card and flashback makes it good to intution for.)
skeletal scrying (insane idk why more decks dont run this)
vampiric tutor
demonic tutor
yawg will
brainstorm
ancestral recall

mystical tutor
chain of vapor
timewalk
merchant scroll
tinker
fact or fiction
gifts ungiven
2 jace
3 intution
4 accumulated knowledge( i normaly do not like this card but the way the dec plays your running it because you run not intution not running intution because you are running ak's like most decks with this engine)
4 drain
4 fow
myr battlesphere
voltaic key
time vault
mana crypt
sol ring
mana vault
black lotus
mox opal
5 moxs

library of alexandria
tolarian academy
2 island
tropical island
volcanic island
4 underground sea
4 fetchs

you want to save fetchs as much as possible cause you only have 1 green and 1 red land source g1 but i run a forest and mountian sb and up the number vs stax and grudge sb is insane cause you go for 3 grudge with intution and end up with 4 things dead comments welcome

wow already building the oath list with two of these guys and iona in my head. seems way to powerfull in a tinker popular format like vintage at least it doesnt pitch to force?

So there is a store near where i live that has started doing sancanted vintage events. But at the same time they are trying to get new people into the format so there is prize for the highest "budget" deck thats what im going to try and get even though i can borrow power i want to show new players you dont need it to do well so i would as for the great players on TMD to help me out. Now the restrictions for budget is no big jace and no cards over 100$. this deck is designed to be good at fighting the top players all of which are playing at least in part blue based control. The biggest issue is that they have power to throw out bigger spells quicker to help my deck counter this i have 2 very good turn one plays that causes greif chalice of the void and mystic remora. so here is the deck as it stands.

4x chalice
4x mystic remora ( the fish)
2x spell snare( didnt want only spell peirce and it hits alot in the format)
2x spell peirce
2x sensei's divining top ( helps us select out remora draws and is just good filter)
brainstorm
4x counterspell
4x standstill ( it help with the card flow is on the cheap and in testing so far i have never broke it)
echoing truth
ancient grudge( for tezz decks)
merchant scroll
2x meditate
tinker(for the quick win)
fact or fiction ( this is the only high cc card we hard cast most games)
4x force of will
3x commandeer ( less arrow then misdirection and we almost always have 2 pitch cards plus stealing a fof or a gifts just feels so good)
inkwell leviathan ( the shroud matters here alot)

mana
solring
mana vault
4x mishra's facoty ( were playing standstill and our mana isnt bad plus we only have bs to shuffle inky back in.)
volcanic island ( grudge plus sb cards)
tropical island ( same as above)
seat of the synod ( keeping artifact count high for tinker)
3x misty rainforest
3x scalding tarn
7x islands

so that is the deck any comments or advice would be very welcome the sb is more geared to random creature decks that sho up but they are not big in the meta so i like the md as being weak to them in order to be good againest the bigger decks.

 ok i changed the deck slightly to take out more of the dead or subpar cards first i took out lat-nams for a show and tell i changed the impulse into Skeletal Scrying which seems to give a little more reach against the blue decks and BUG decks are not super fast but mroe controling so i think its fine in that match, the hurkl's changed into rebuild because i dont feel fine leaveing no artifact bounce due to the style of stax played but at least this can cantrip in dead g1. the blessing has yet to be replaced because i dont know what i want in its place right now im thinking FOF or an extra duress effect any ideas?

I have started to play oath recently but havent had much testing done except for my local meta, so i thought i would ask the great minds here if there were and suggestions for my list .

1x inkwell
1x iona
1x progenatis
1x terastodon

4x fow
4x spell peirce
2x duress

1x vamp
1x mystical
1x demonic
1x merchant scroll
1x gifts
1x yawg win
1x hurkyl's
1x tinker
1x timewalk
1x cov
1x impulse ( need to find a better replacement)
1x Ancestral Recall
1x brainstorm
1x lat-nam's legacy (not sure but has been fine so far)
1x ponder

4x oath
1x blessing

2x sensei's top
5x mox
1x lotus
1x solring
1x mana vault

2x misty
2x scalding tarn
2x bayou
2x tropical
1x sea
2x island
1x forest
4x orchard

so this deck was made for my meta which has a few stax players and lots of random control decks in the testing which is the reason for the fatties i choose all the guys are hard to deal with either they have shroud cut off a colour or can just spred their power over many bodies. the mana base is a little off but those are the only duel land that i have acess to. i have been turning up results and im glad of the 4 dudes because alot of decks around where i play have been adding a maindeck sacrament because of all the bluebased control and the low amount of win cons. any advice would be welcome im basicly only worried about the switch from my meta to a larger tournament where BUG is big with md trygon as well as the mirror match being a reason to smash your head into a wall, however the other oath decks are mostly of the dragon kind with sb dons

i have tried differnt versions and i have tried Commandeer
and found that it works but is some times awkward to pull off but i will give it some more testing

So i have built a deck that is slightly meta gamed for my local store. There are lots of mono blue control decks running around and maybe a couple stax and one oath player and then there are none regulars sporting deck x. This deck was made to win by just burying the opponent under long term card advantage and then win with some huge unfair beat stick.

lands 15( light land count but the amount of draw makes it so you almost never get screwed on mana)
4 polluted delta
4 underground sea
4 island
3 swamp

creatures 6
4 dimir cutpurse ( card advantage less chance of hurt then bob and not many creatures with all the mono   decks so he hits)
1 psychatog ( DR. TEETH is just giant)
1 inkwell leviathan( got to have the tinker target and is harder to deal with the DSC against the blue)

artifacts 11(just mana and tops)
5 mox
sol ring
mana vault
lotus petal
black lots
2 sensei's divining top

sorcery 7
4 duress ( take those cards away)
ponder (worse brain storm)
demonic tutor (do i got to say it?)
tinker ( by tinker i mean a 7/11 islandwalking trample shroudy creature)

instant 17
4 force of will ( free counter magic is good)
3 mana drain ( second best counter)
3 repeal (bounces mystic remora to keep the super card advantage and bounces any thing that needs be)
vampiric tutor ( again dont really got to explain)
mystical tutor ( just good)
ancestral recall ( best card advantage)
brainstorm( still bitter about not being able to use 4)
rebuild ( in case they tinker you first or for stax)
chain of vapor ( just another bounce)
darkblast( hits bob to keep other players advantage down)

Enchantment 4
4 mystic remora ( again just great card advantage and keeps long term and combinded with cutpurse hits will usaly be a 3 point card advantage swing in your favor)

so any advice would be welcome   and advice on how to unmeta it a little would be great too

I have a friend that has been testing this card since brainstorm was restricted.It has worked well for him because it is simply a decent card as well as the fact that his metagame has a decent amount of black control with main deck graveyard hate. this works for him because it stops what ever he needs from being duressed/thought seized away. I'm not saying this card is good for every one but depending on play style and meta it could be a decent card.

This is just a deck that i have put together. The cards in the list are the things that i have been able to find to make the deck and it will change as i get acess to more cards. Any advice would be very welcome.
land:17
4x gemstone mine
3x terramorphic expanse
3x island
2x swamp
2x esper panorama
2x urborg tomb of yawgmoth
1x city of brass

creatures:0

spells:37
4x dark ritual
4x rite of flame
4x serum visions
3x pulse of the grid
2x pyroblast
1x squandered resources
1x lim-dul's vault
1x ponder
1x brainstorm
1x frantic search
1x gifts ungiven
1x fact or fiction
1x merchant scroll
1x gush
1x relearn
1x windfall
1x mind's desire
1x demonic tutor
1x vampiric tutor
1x ad nauseam
1x yawgmoth's bargain
1x cabal ritual
1x hymn to tourach
1x tendrils of agony
1x recoup

artifacts:6
1x lotus petal
1x sol ring
1x mana vault
1x sensei's divining top
1x darkwater egg
1x darksteel ingot

  There are a few cards on my list i run most of these in one deck or another but have not seen them alot.
-tolaria west (i love the uncounterable search)
- manamorphose (mana fix with a card draw)
- shadow of doubt ( anti search opponent with card draw)
-lat-nam's legacy (most people have never even heard of this card but i love it it shuffles back one card in your hand into your deck then draw two cards next upkeep)
lim-dul's vault (sets up next five draws) 

i am just wondering u are clearly mono blue in colour anyway so why are you running mana leak should u not use counter spell same mana for a solid counter?

This is not even the same deck he was running a dragon storm deck yes it is good i just happen to like this deck for its power to pump out many tokens and the burn spells in it yes simliar to his deck but imho i think that this deck is about the same true no dam right away but is not so reliant on one card so extripate does not equal game.

I need some help with this deck im likeing it so far and am thinking about playing it in a tournament at the local card store however i have not played in standered for a long time and need some advise to weather or not this can stand up to the current meta game.


deck list


creatures/plainswalkers
1x garruk wildspeaker(most likely comeing out)
1x bogardan hellkite(lots of mana makeing and is big flyer with big abilities)
1x pardic dragon(not shure about him suspend is no way but is still 4/4 pumpable for  flying dragon)
2x grinning ignus(big storm or mana maker for dragons)
3x simian spirt guide(mana/ not a bad creature)

instants
2x shock(enough said)
2x incinerate(same)


artifacts
1x thrumming stone (yeah bigger storm or grapeshot x2)
1x chromatic star (for balanceing deck as well deck does not have much seach)
2x holwing mine(agian not alot of search)

sorcerys
1x browbeat (no down side)
3x rift bolt(delay so makes you start with a storm count of 1 before your turn realy starts going)
4x riddle of lightning(scry is search as well this is a burn spell)
4x rite of flame(... easy one)
4x empty the warrens(main win with big storm count)
4x grapeshot(other win harder to win with but more reliable)

enchantments
1x muraganda petroglyphs(yeah 3/3 goblin tokens pyroclasm can bite me or 5/5 beasts from garruk wild speaker)

LAND
2x molten slagheap
1x fungal reaches
1x saltcrusted steppe
(all the above are the same mega mana)
2x forest
1x snow-covered forest
16x mountain

so i could use some help on this thank you to any one who posts here.

                                                                                                                                    -gold eyes

Well I came up with this idea. Phyrexian processor, staff of domination and metal worker. Staff of domination with metal worker can make infinte mana so this with stroke of genius can deck your opponent to death. Another way to win would be artifacts in hand with metal worker and staff however this can also make infinte life that can be used to make realy big tokens with phyrexian processor which with as much life as you want can make one attack game winner token. So if this is going to happen then you will need alot of control so main mana sources will be colourless or will be u/b. So what i truely need help on is what kinds of control should i run? Duress is a must force of will mana drain. mana drain im not shure if that would be super usefull and of course tinker and darksteel colossus because the can always knock out your combo. So any one who can give help i would be happy to hear it.

                                                                                                                                                       -gold eyes

well does not seem to bad one thing i would think about though is street wraith it is draw for no mana and only the cost of two life you have a win condition of the shade so urborg is a good idea another thing to think about is bog witch its not bad for your deck and since your running so much control you can most likely get of will when you want it to get back any thing you pitched to it and  mean while u deal 3 more damage. Another thing you might want to think about is cabal ritual can make 5 black with threshhold which can be very bad for your opponent i do not know whats going to happen when you play because even though you run many discard spells it can still be bad because you are not running blue so almost no counter also if you happen to play a opponent playing goblins you could be in for some big trouble because you do not have anything to realy help you exept balance which is only good for one time unless you are able to play will after but you did not say goblins will be played and if they are i dont think too many will show up so i would not worry thats all i can realy think of to help you good luck with your deck.

                                                                                                                                                                          -gold eyes

I already asked you to improve the quality of your writing. Then you write this. I really can't discern what you're trying to say; the next time you post, please make the effort to write something which can be read. Verbal Warning.

Rich

ok takeing these ideas i have made a deck

1 tolarian academy
4 seat of the synod
4 vault of whispers
4 underground sea
1 island

1 darksteel colossus
2 metal workers
1 vampiric tutor
1mana crypt
1 mana vault
1 crucible of worlds
1 ancestral recall
2 force of will
1 voltaic key
1 black lotus
1 demonic tutor
2 infernal contract(i just like em)
3 dark ritual
2 high tide
2 ak
2 stroke of genius
4 staff of domination
1 yawgmoths will
4 brain storms
2 phyrexian processor
1 tinker
2 storm cauldron
1 regrowth
1 lotus petal
1 mox diamond (agian i just like em)
5 moxs


ok so what happens in the testing games ive done is metal worker out artifacts in hand staff out infinte mana/ life make infinte like 1,000,000/1,000,000 tokens or stroke them for there deck though this deck is still heavliy under testing it seems to be doing well so far so poast about my list now if u plz and thx to any 1 who does

                                                                                                                                                    -gold eyes

so whats the goblin thing for? i mean i know u said to leave it out but it might work that or processer with the infinte life combo u said then u could make like 800/800 tokens

how would that work simply pay all before it gets saced?

ok thx alot for the help i will try and find some way of useing it to keep up with newer decks alltough lets face it t1 does not change too much

ok so gifts is useless now or is there some other good use for it though u would not base a deck around it

i know i should know this but i am kind of new to t1 i have played tog,tendrils,stax,oath,dragon, and a few more decks but i came a cross a gifts ungiven that my friend gave me and i know this card is broken i was just wondering can any 1 give me an example deck list of were this card is so broken it makes u want to cry thx to any 1 who posts.

                                                                                                                                    -gold eyes

i like the deck i tried it to get a better under standing of how it works and it worked well but decking is maybe not the best way to go more in the lines of barbarian ring? how ever i like the deck and i jave tried and found it works just letting ur oppent potenaly finding a answer is realy realy bad

u need to remember u can use those land out side of u/r because most decks run u any way so if u got b/u/r then ur deck can increase amazingly tog comes to mind gush is  amazing brain storms (i know u know just thought i say) the good tutors thought seize deep analize(spelled wrong most likey) i have been useing the bazzar with tog latly to get a will in or just toi have big grave yard with some flash back also ee is good leyline of the void (sb) run tinker and what ever u want as second win condish stink weed imp is anoth chooice to make tog big though u need to have control in have (crypt stoping) also tendrils/minds derire if u want to stay away from tog well good luck

Verbal Warning for a really poorly written post. See rule #1 of the site rules.

ok thx and i do run tutors thats a u kind of have to thing adn i do not lean on it though with my play group no 1 has answers any way but it has been working out as for the deck it tendrils so i was thinking maybe make all the blue train of though because replicate works as palyed spells unlike storm does it not?
 

ok i understand that it is a 5 mana artifact but most t1 decks could play that on first turn witch would then set up for the rest of the game so like the how ever many floating blu could go to stroke of genius?

no storm cauldron sayd 2 lands per turn its out already so 3 taps of it

hi i am new to mana drain and have only been playing t1 for about 3-4 months but i have got this nice little thing set up but im not sure how to use it to its full power. it is basically tolarian academy with maybe 5 artifacts in play then tap get out storm cauldron( 5 mana artifact during each player's turn that player may put 1 additional land into play whenever a land is taped for mana return it to its owner's hand)so now 6 artifacts into play pass the turn on your turn tap academy 6u goes to hand play it tap 6 more u goes to hand play again tap 6 more u so 18 floating blue i have just been useing to do what ever was needed at the moment how ever i have a felling it is not being use at full power if any 1 has any ideas i would love to hear them.

                                                                                                                                                    -gold eyes