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Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Dark Times Primer
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on: January 11, 2011, 11:57:34 am
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I recently started to build/test this and played it at the Grudge match this past weekend. My thoughts were a shops heavy meta, but alas that was not quite the case. I saw Oath, Tezz x 2, and Belcher before I dropped to eat/trade/tichu and was not pleased with how the deck ran. I can post my list sometime, but for now it is MB and I wanted to keep it that way, but with the current state, the green splash is probably necessary to get rid of oath/spheres/CotV@2, etc. I played 2 Null Rod main and 2 in the side and was happy with the disruption it caused; chalice I am unsure about currently but I will have to play around with it. I am also tinkering with Gatekeeper main for an edict effect/bear that puts pressure with a Bob and/or Hexmage; worked at getting rid of a Sphinx/I was able to play it as a bear against Belcher (granted, I know that this is not a deck that I will see often).
Please, post your list. We can discuss then |
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Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Dark Times Primer
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on: January 09, 2011, 12:11:45 am
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I'm also considering adding more nulls/chalices to 2nd lawls list. Aside from dredge, 99% of other decks use at least 5 0cc artifacts (lotus, 3 mox, petal, but could also include crypt, 2 other mox), IMO dark times is not proactive enough against these cards. Thoughts?
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Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Dark Times Primer
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on: January 08, 2011, 04:25:33 pm
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I want to try Unpowered first. If I want to play Tendril + Wil, I'll go for TPS or something like that. As I said, I'm going to run this list first, and then I'll add some power to it. I don't think it's too bad for the meta right now. Maybe I wouldn't reach to the top 1 at a big tournament, but that's okay for now. I've also got some other decks that need attention  . You basically asked for input and then disagreed with it. Overseer1234 is right, if you're going to play unpowered list, it makes no sense to not stop opponent's power from hitting the table. You are just permitting your opponent to accelerate his mana faster than you are. I'd support his suggestion to add chalices/nulls. This doesn't mean you can't play helmline main deck, but the null rod and helm is quite dis-synergic. I see no reason not to play 4 rituals. This also gives you the tendrils secondary kill option with only 1 added card (the tendrils itself), freeing up other helmline spots for other cards like the chalices, nulls, or grim disco. Whats the deal with the bitterblossoms? Seems like they'd be pretty worthless in any matchup except shops, since the chances you attack someone to death before you could get a marit lage on the table seems pretty slim (the entire deck is designed to get out the 20/20 token, and were talking 7+ turns for the bitterblossoms to do 20 dmg, assuming none chump block or get killed). Also, your argument against tendrils is pretty weak. Dark times isn't TPS, and not playing the better secondary wincon because you "don't want to" is not a very compelling argument. My 2 cents. |
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Eternal Formats / Northeast U.S. / Re: GRUDGE MATCH II - N.Y.S.E. Vintage for a Lotus
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on: December 31, 2010, 07:29:53 pm
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Anyone from the Boston area attending that has in the past? Interested in coming out to this one and would like to know best directions etc. Also if I'm available to go I wouldn't be opposed to car pooling (in my car or someone else's) in an effort to reduce the cost of gas. PM me please.
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Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Dark Times Primer
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on: December 26, 2010, 12:34:22 am
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First time checking back here in a while...anyways, i think the chalice list is really interesting. I'm surprised how well it did, is there any debate about which deck is better (chalice list vs non chalice list)?
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Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Dark Times Primer
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on: October 12, 2010, 05:28:12 pm
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I'm planning on going to a tournament this weekend and I can't decide if I should play Dark Depths or storm combo. I've played Dark Depths before but it was not my original plan. Take the metagame by surprise with DD or go with ole' faithful? Thoughts?
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Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Dark Times Primer
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on: October 08, 2010, 05:40:04 pm
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@ Cyberpunk I'm confused as to why you are suggesting Null Rod. It is in the list that 2ndLawl put and im pretty sure in every subsequent deck list posted here. To everyone: Do you think any alterations need to be made for the un-restriction of gush to deal with gro decks? Or should this be addressed in the SB? I've been putting together a Dark Times deck and this thread has been a help.
Question for you guys, has anyone thought about or tested Voltaic Key + Time Vault somewhere? I was thinking in the sideboard maybe in case Leyline is a dead card in a match-up why not side out 4 Leyline of the Void + Helm for Key/Vault + 3 more specific disruption cards like Bitterblossom for the Shops match-up? or what about throwing in Vault/Key in the main board as a 3rd 'oops i win' option?
The thing is, key and vault are also dead cards just like helm and leyline are when not paired together. Leyline does something on its own and so does Helm, you can actually use Helm in a last ditch effort. I don't think this really improves the deck, since there is already so much vault-key hate out there as well. Also, if you are going to tutor for vault key, why not tutor for Hexmage and DD, since one swing with Marit Lage is GG anyways. Dark Depths is also un-counterable. My Last thing is, do you guys play Dark Depths because you think it is possible to be a #1 caliber deck in Vintage, or because you are playing on a budget? |
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Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Dark Times Primer
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on: October 03, 2010, 02:12:37 pm
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Sooooo Yeahhhh Im an idiot lol
On the Tendrils Idea. I have been running 2nd Laws list for the past month in practice with the exception of adding 1 tendrils and 1 grim tutor. Tenrils has been good giving me several wins
What did you remove for these two additions? I'm more interested in how Grim Tutor has worked out for you. Beseech the Queen may be just as suitable as Grim Tutor in this deck? |
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Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Dark Times Primer
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on: September 27, 2010, 01:52:53 am
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Great primer. Can I ask why there is no Tendrils of Agony? With Rituals, beaters, yawg will, and several black tutors, the tendrils line seems very beneficial. Even one would add the option.
A second question: are helm/leyline really worth it? 5 slots is a lot. Maybe this is related to my Tendrils question inasmuch as I expect your answer to involve wanting a second line of play when jace or something shuts down your combo
In the past page or two, we've been discussing green and blue splashes instead of helmline, feel free to recommend anything else. |
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Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Dark Times Primer
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on: September 26, 2010, 10:24:53 pm
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No more comment about the black/green version ? What do you thing about this version : 1 Forest 1 Strip Mine 2 Dark Depths 2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 3 Bayou 3 Swamp 4 Verdant Catacombs 4 Wasteland 3 Vampire Hexmage 4 Dark Confidant 4 Tarmogoyf 1 Black Lotus 1 Crucible of Worlds 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Pithing Needle 2 Sensei's Divining Top 1 Necropotence 1 Darkblast 1 Diabolic Edict 1 Vampiric Tutor 2 Nature's Claim 4 Dark Ritual 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Imperial Seal 1 Living Wish 1 Yawgmoth's Will 3 Thoughtseize 4 Duress SB: 1 Perish SB: 1 Sadistic Sacrament SB: 1 Helm of Obedience SB: 2 Emissary of Despair SB: 4 Leyline of the Void SB: 1 Darkblast SB: 1 Pithing Needle SB: 1 Nature's Claim SB: 1 Dark Depths SB: 1 Vampire Hexmage SB: 1 Bitterblossom Nul Rod are replaced by Nature's Claim, no more demonic consultation but 2 Sensei's Divining Top, to help you getting the good cards, and keep life point with Dark Confidant Also, I'll try living wish. I might play this version in few days for a tournament, but I am not able to test it against someone  The most expensive spell in the deck is Yawgmoth's Will/Necropotence so the tops are not necessary to prevent damage via confidant. At most top is good to prevent extra land drawing but I honestly don't see the card in this deck. Also since the entire deck runs on only a few mana I would rather cast thoughtseize/duress and disrupt than top. Why would you remove the null rods for nature's claim? You have artifact removal now but you don't stop moxen/lotus/vault/key/misc artifacts but you can remove two of them and chalice @ 2 won't kill you. Not a good call in my opinion...too narrow. I can't decide how good living wish is since I haven't tested it, but I think that consultation would probably be better. Its on color and it accomplishes everything living wish does except getting emissarys vs shops game 1, and is an instant. What I mean by that is consulting for hexmage or dark depths is most likely a better play than living wish for either one since its cheaper and the odds that you kill yourself by casting consult with multiple copies in the deck are sooo slim. You can also consult out of desperation and take a chance on a game if you're gonna lose the game anyways. |
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Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Dark Times Primer
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on: September 16, 2010, 08:23:22 pm
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Has anyone considered any artifact creatures? Masticore is the first to come to mind, but that may be underwhelming. I was also thinking to somehow incorporate either Phyrexian Negator, Phylactery Lich, or Abyssal Persecutor, and you wouldn't have to splash another color. For Lich you would obviously need to add some more artifacts (I'd say at least 10 that are not either lotus), for Abyssal you'd need to add Cabal Therapy or something of the like, and with Negator you'd need bitterblossom or some sort of recurring permanent. Just a thought since we may as well try to stay mono black since there is such a plethora of cheap black creatures.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Three Black Fatties - The Concept, the Deck?
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on: September 13, 2010, 10:39:17 pm
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Null rod + grindstone seems pretty bad.
I did have some success a few months ago with a BR fish that used a transformative sideboard; it went from beats with null rod into a painter/stone, helm/leyline combo deck. Actually won a small sanctioned event! Then was crushed the following week.
So yea, I could see running null rods maindeck or grindstone main deck, but not both.
Ya, I know its not the best. Maybe 3 chalices instead would be better, obvious target would be chalice at 0 but chalice at 1 is definitely not the play and chalice at 2 doesn't seem that great either. I wouldn't include 3 chalices just to chalice at 0. Maybe add another painter's, another grindstone, and a Sol Ring or something. Maybe vault+key? |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Three Black Fatties - The Concept, the Deck?
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on: September 12, 2010, 11:23:10 pm
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Hypnotic Specter is too slow in this day and age. I wouldn't play it. I also would play Null Rod instead of Chalice, and then cut Mana Vault and Mana Crypt. I know you want to keep your artifact count up, so perhaps a Pithing Needle and Crucible in their places. I have no experience testing your deck at all but by looks I suggest:
3 Painter's Servant
3 Phyrexian Negator
3 Phylactery Lich
4 Dark Confidant
3 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Ritual
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Bitterblossom
1 Necropotence
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Consultation
3 Null Rod
2 Grindstone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
6 Swamp
Now you have an alternate wincon to beats with the servant/grindstone combo and 3 solid tutors to accompany it. I added Yawgmoth's so you can replay disruption and artifacts that may have found their way into the graveyard. Also by my count you have 15 artifacts(not including either lotus) so that should leave a pretty high chance of always having one for the Lich. I don't see how it would be possible to play Negator without Bitterblossom. Negator also doubles as an outlet to maybe destroy your own Null Rod if you want to shift your strategy mid game from beats to decking. as far as the SB, I'd start with:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Emissary of Despair
1 Trinisphere
Let me know what you think.
EDIT: Also, I can't think of it off the top of my head and I'm about to go to sleep so I will research it tomorrow, but maybe equipment would fit well in this deck as well. Probably to aid Phyrexian to be unblockable or just the standard Sword of blank and blank or umezewas.
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Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Dark Times Primer
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on: September 12, 2010, 04:37:16 pm
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What about instead of 5 Leyline/Helm, we go 3 Painter's servant/2 Grindstone, or something like that? You have a 2nd wincon and unless you get turn 0 leyline it is much cheaper, as it cost 6 mana total with the highest costing mana being 3, as opposed to two 4cc. You could also maybe do 4 Painter's/1 Grindstone, or maybe even 3 Painters/1 Grindstone, and a beats equipment to make the Painter's servants or Bobs a little more threatening. What do you think?
Doing this hurts your G1 plan against Dredge which is one of the benefits of playing this deck. We are discussing alternatives to Helmline, how is this idea any worse than splashing green for Tarmogoyfs or blue for power? With Tarmo and with blue you still have the same problem as being vulnerable to dredge, so I don't understand why you would post this. |
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Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Dark Times Primer
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on: September 09, 2010, 01:01:53 pm
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GREEN SPLASH - When you just want a good plan B
I played a friendly Vintage game against Conley Woods once. He was playing MUD, and I asked him "Everyone seems to be afraid of playing against Workshops. What are Workshops afraid of playing against?"
He said, simply, "Tarmogoyfs."
After my first tourney at Superstars, I axed the Helm and moved the Leylines to the sideboard. In their place, I added 4 Tarmogoyfs and a Mox Emerald. I suddenly felt like the MUD matchup was as unloseable as Dredge had once been. The first 'Goyf you play will usually trade with a 5/3, buying you lots of time against a deck that really only runs 8 threats. The second goyf tends to be a 5/6, and at that point you really can't lose.
Nature's Claim out of the board gives you even more game against 'Shops, and helps with the Chalice-at-2 problem the rest of the deck has. Claim is also good against Oath, a match-up admittedly made a little bit worse by the 'Goyfs.
My local shop is running its first Vintage event this Sunday, so I'm dusting off the Dark Depths again and getting ready to crush with some 20/20s. There will be a lot of first-time Vintage players in the room, many of whom will probably try porting their Legacy decks over to this format. In such an unpredictable meta-game, I want to be comboing. I want to be ignoring my opponent and just winning faster. So the question becomes, what is the best way to do that?
My friend, Phil (saspook on TMD), thought I should go back to the mono-black version. This isn't a terrible idea since I can name at least two Legacy Dredge players I know who are going to proxy some Bazaars and call it a day. But again... nauseous. So I've been tinkering with this:
Also, I'm curious to know how you altered your manabase to accommodate the green splash? |
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Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Dark Times Primer
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on: September 09, 2010, 01:00:17 pm
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What about instead of 5 Leyline/Helm, we go 3 Painter's servant/2 Grindstone, or something like that? You have a 2nd wincon and unless you get turn 0 leyline it is much cheaper, as it cost 6 mana total with the highest costing mana being 3, as opposed to two 4cc. You could also maybe do 4 Painter's/1 Grindstone, or maybe even 3 Painters/1 Grindstone, and a beats equipment to make the Painter's servants or Bobs a little more threatening. What do you think?
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Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Dark Times Primer
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on: August 30, 2010, 04:17:24 pm
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I'm wondering if anyone has used Chains of Mephistopheles in Dark Times, and what their experience was with it. Seems like you should almost run it main deck? If I'm not mistaken, card drawing through Bobs and Necropotence is not effected by Chains.
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Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Dark Times Primer
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on: August 29, 2010, 11:52:43 am
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Just Made t8 At the Grudge Match tournament with 74/75 of the list in the Original post. I might do a mini report later.
That would be great. What card did you change? -1 phyrexian tower in the SB for a Perish. And then I played against oath twice and fish 0 times :/. Went undefeated in the swiss anyway(only dropping 1 game) then got pared against MUD with maindeck Razormane masticore in the t8, I vomited out loud. Normally that's the case... At least you can rest assured knowing that Phyrexian Tower wouldn't have helped you in that match. What would have? Gate to Phyrexia? Nope, I never cast a creature in either game that I lost, and in the 3rd game he t1 chalice 2'd me. If I had 1 more turn, I would have been able to helm him out, but razormane is a nasty clock . On my last turn I needed to rip consultation for the win. Actually if I had EE in my sb as a 1 of I would have won the 3rd game I think, as I would have been able to seal for EE and kill his t1 chalice on 2, which would have let me edict his razormane, and play my bitterblossom. The other card that might have been good is some kind of creature kill that doesn't cost 2, but the options are kind of lacking, Snuff Out is probably the best one(but ghastly demise perhaps also deserves consideration, the problem I have with both cards is that they cant kill bob), I would consider adding it back to the SB as a 1-of. Im thinking of Tearing down the sb and rebuilding it from the ground up, as Sounds noobish but what is EE? Edit: Engineered Explosives just clicked in my head |
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Eternal Formats / Ritual-Based Combo / Re: Ritual Based Combo in Today's Metagame
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on: August 16, 2010, 09:03:41 pm
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Mike Solymossy playing ‘I’m on MeanDeck, so this has to be good, right?’ – 4th Place
Business (33)
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
2 Mana Drain
3 Thoughtseize
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Rebuild
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Meditate
1 Gush
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Mind’s Desire
1 Yawgmoth’s Bargain
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
2 Doomsday
Mana Sources (27)
3 Dark Ritual
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
3 Island
1 Swamp
Sideboard (15)
1 Tropical Island
2 Trygon Predator
4 Dark Confidant
4 Yixlid Jailer
2 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Tinker
1 Inkwell Leviathan
How has meditate worked out for you? I recommended possibly running meditate a while ago on these forums but never got to testing it. I'm interested to see how things have worked out for you. |
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Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [FREE Article] M11 Set Review for Vintage
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on: August 15, 2010, 07:24:41 pm
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I haven't really had a chance to extensively test preordain, so I will not assertively comment yet or give a polarized opinion, but I have read that it is mostly OK - nothing too great, but ok in some decks. Will anyone who has played this card in their deck in a tournament setting comment on their thoughts? I'm interested in finding more out about this card.
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Eternal Formats / Ritual-Based Combo / Re: Ritual Based Combo in Today's Metagame
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on: August 12, 2010, 11:18:13 am
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I initially wanted bobs in my deck but I don't believe him to be an auto include unless you're playing gwsx. There are so many cards that cause significant life loss like fow yawgbarg minds desire etc. In some cases other cards may be better, but that's just my opinion and also varies on meta. I am not saying bob is not good because he is fantastic when played right, just be careful. Also please spare any egregious spelling errors I'm typing on an iPod waiting to be selected for jury duty :-/
Bobs are the answer to almost all of the major problems that modern combo is faced with: - MUD - Spell Pierce - Mystic Remora Receiving damage from Confidant is not such a big issue in a Tendrils deck, as it is in control shells. You usually find a way to go off before a Confidant flip kills you. Thats exactly it, as I play a more controllish version of tendrils, and recently there have been a bunch of drain tendrils doing well, which confidant does not fit, which is why I say to be careful when playing with bob. (E.g., not to see a top 8 drain tendrils deck then throw bobs in it thinking it will get better, just trying to be more clear here, I know that Bob can be an all star in a tendrils deck). |
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Eternal Formats / Ritual-Based Combo / Re: Ritual Based Combo in Today's Metagame
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on: August 12, 2010, 09:42:37 am
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I've been out of the loop for a couple months and I was wondering where Rituals stand in today's metagame. The 4x Spell Pierce deck that won gen con looks like it could be a challenging matchup. I'm playing in a Blue Bell tournament this Saturday and I could really use some good information; I need to know what to expect and what popular counter strategies I should be prepared to play against.
Today I'd be more worried about MUD than SpellPierce.dec. Nevertheless, storm is still playable imo. Don't leave home without Confidants though! Leyline is an issue that cannot be ignored, so a plan-b (aka TinkerBot) and Chain of Vapor must be packed. But this is nothing new to storm. So in summary, basically nothing changed dramatically  I initially wanted bobs in my deck but I don't believe him to be an auto include unless you're playing gwsx. There are so many cards that cause significant life loss like fow yawgbarg minds desire etc. In some cases other cards may be better, but that's just my opinion and also varies on meta. I am not saying bob is not good because he is fantastic when played right, just be careful. Also please spare any egregious spelling errors I'm typing on an iPod waiting to be selected for jury duty :-/ |
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Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: The Dark Times Primer
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on: August 06, 2010, 12:18:27 pm
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I recently played dark times and I was very happy with it. However, my build was 4 cards different from yours. A couple things:
1. Yawgmoth's Will: I don't see why this card gets an inclusion. YawgWin seems like an auto include in any deck running black, but honestly, what are you playing out of the GY? The game is not in your favor if you are deep enough in the game for YawgWill to be a good play.
Will is one of the best cards in the deck, and I tutor for it in nearly every midgame situation since it allows you to replay all your disruption, replay the tutor and then win the next turn. it is especially good in the Tez and Oath matchups which can be a real grind. You need to be prepared to play the long game, especially against oath post board. Will is going to be the card that wins you alot of games by itself, and I wouldn't dream of sleeving up without one. 2.As far as edicts, I only ran one maindeck, and I thought that was enough. Running 3 weakens your match up vs the control decks very much since it will be a worthless card against Tezz and any version of tendrils.
edict is excellent versus tez, since you want to kill their bobs ASAP, and need an answer to tinker. You could move 1 to the sideboard if you think your local meta has almost no creatures, but in my experience, the best tez decks are now running trygon main in addition to bob, its obviously good vs oath, and needed in the shop and fish matchups. It is also fine against dredge postboard where they will be hardcasting creatures in all likelihood. 3. Pithing Needle: I had these in my SB (2) and I felt that was the right play. I believe its too situational and not worth an inclusion unless you know it is going to be worth it, and I don't consider naming a fetchland to be worth it, that's pretty much a stab in the dark.
Ive certainly won games off the back of swamp, rit duress, take a mox/lotus, needle fetchland, omperal seal for strip mine. Looking for spots to manascrew them is excellent. Plus it stops Jace, and is an answer to vault/key. I find that the mix of answers to threats (rod, and needle for vault key, needle/hexmage for jace/tez etc) is most effective with the tutor package, it also prevents you from drawing multiple null rods against decks where the card does nothing or close to nothing. Needle also lets you keep more g1 hands vs dredge. That said needle obviously isn't a critical deck component, I just find it to be a flexible card that does alot of good work. You could think about replacing necro also if you need the slots. With these 4 different cards, I had 3 more null rods and an extra dark depths. Running 4 nulls is something I believe in, but could be a meta game call. As far as 3 dark depths, I loved having 3, I seemed to always draw it with consistency, but it never was a dead draw.
It is a metagame call for sure, if your meta is infested with tez and storm then more null rods are going to be good. The problem is that they arent actually that good against storm which is really well equipped to find a bounce spell, and null rod will hardly phase them. The most important thing vs storm is that you use your dresses effectively. .
Lastly, I believe Chains of Mephistopheles is definitely a card to consider in the SB. Dark times is a great deck and I encourage anyone to try it out if you're looking for a competitive vintage deck.
I actually used to play this card, before the TFK restriction. I just forgot about it, oversight on my part, adding it now. 1. I concede to your point on Yawgwill, after further thought I think it is good in this deck. 2. I still think 3 edicts is a little heavy, and I should've gone into more detail on my thoughts. I know many decks run Bobs and its good to get rid of them due to the massive card advantage they provide, I just believe that a different card or two in place of said edicts can enhance your match up against these decks more than an edict could. Also, I purposely did not specify Oath because Edict is obviously good against Oath, even I know that . I guess we can compromise in the middle at 2 edicts  . 3. I think we both agree Pithing is a fantastic card. I just prefer it in my SB, no worth debating this since we are essentially in agreement. Also, I will try and dig up an article on fetching and "thinning". Someone did a lot of testing and has the numbers to back up the fact that fetching and the idea of using them to "thin" out your deck is more of a myth than an actual fact. P.S. I wouldn't cut necro, ritual necro on the first turn just provides insane card advantage, it is just so good. EDITED: to correct spelling |
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