I totally had a ride there and everything, then the night before we got in a near fatal car crash, otherwise, I would have been so all over that bitch!

I'm in love with Nick Coss, he helped me finish my deck

Hey, so I made top eight at the last blue bell after a long slump.
I lost to 5-c stacks in the top 8.
And at GenCon my two losses which knocked me out of contention were too, you guessed it 5-c stacks.
So I need to work on that mathup and thats what this thread is about.
Here is the current list:

4 x Dark Confidant
3 x Meddling Mage
3 x Aven Mindcensor
2 x Vendillion Clique
2 x Kataki, War's Wage

4 x Force of Will
3 x Spell Snare
3 x Thoughtseize
2 x Negate
2 x Null Rod

3 x Polluted Delta
3 x Tundra
3 x Underground Sea
3 x Wasteland
2 x Flooded Strand
1 x Island
1 x Swamp
1 x Mishra's Factory
1 x Strip Mine
1 x Mox Pearl
1 x Mox Jet
1 x Mox Sapphire
1 x Black Lotus

1 x Darkblast
1 x Vampiric Tutor
1 x Demonic Tutor
1 x Ancestral Recall
1 x Brainstorn
1 x Hurkl's Recall
1 x Time Walk
1 x Rushing River
1 x Sensei's Diving Top
1 x Crucible or Worlds

Sideboard

3 x Extirpate
3 x Energy Flux
2 x Path to Exile
2 x Duress
1 x Diabolic Edict
1 x Tormod's Crypt
1 x Relic of Progenitus
1 x Echoing Truth
1 x Seal of Cleansing

I was running three path in the board at blue bell, but I'm starting to think with a darkblas main, there isn't a need for so many path.
With school and work I'm only getting one day of testing in a week right now, but my current board in is as follows:

+3 Energy Flux
+2 Extirpate
+1 Seal of Cleansing
+1 Path to Exile

-3 Spell Snare
-2 Null Rod
-1 Top
-1 Clique

I think this plan is closer to what I should be doing, but not close enough.
I'm going to ammend this article a little later.
Advice is appreciated, as for the haters I've heard it all before.

This is Sean, my deck is called Rebel Fish, and the missing card is crucible of worlds. Come on people, I can't beleive no one pointed that out.

Alright I was doing some testing, and looking back at the older variations of my list and wondering when is it good to try to get back to your roots, and when is it time to tweak and innovate.
That being said have a look at what I got third place with in Nov:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Force of Will
4 Meddling Mage
3 Spell Snare
3 Stifle
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
3 Null Rod
3 Thoughtseize
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Flooded Strand
2 Mishra's Factory
2 Wasteland
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Brainstorm
1 Strip Mine
1 Time Walk
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Rushing River

SB:
3 Duress
2 Energy Flux
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Extirpate
2 Smother
1 Darkblast
1 Echoing Truth


And Here is what I have going now:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Force of Will
3 Meddling Mage
3 Spell Snare
3 CurseCatcher
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland
3 Aven Mindcensor
2 Null Rod
2 Thoughtseize
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Flooded Strand
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Brainstorm
1 Strip Mine
1 Time Walk
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Rushing River
1 Duress
1 Misdirection
1 Darkblast
1 Diabolic Edict

SB:
3 Energy Flux
3 Path to Exile
3 Extirpate
3 Engineered Plague
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Diabolic Edict

I got third place at a tourney while only running twelve guys and two man lands.
I've since increased the threat count to fifteen in the form of cursecatcher whom I'm still unsure of.
So the question is, whats better cursecatcher or stifle?

I ran STP main until inkwell came out then one had to become an edict and running just one STP main didn't make sense so it became a darkblast so I could deal with opposing Confidants and Welders and other fish decks.
So the question is, how good are MD STP effects in a no proxy field.

I cut ethersworn cannonist out of my board because long has taken a huge dive, due to the fact that tez decks win with two cards and long needs ten.
So the question is, should I expect to see some form of long at Gencon?

I found myself only playing with 17 blue cards, so I decided to fit an 18th.
Right now its a misdirection, however it could become a ponder, another spell snare, or a repeal.
Which is optimal?

I'll come it with some more questions, and hopefully I'll get some good feedback.
Thanks Guys

RIP Dan Herd

To Everyone:

A note one path/swords main.
Before the days of Inkwell Leviathan, I did used to run two swords to plowshares in my main deck, and i loved them.
However with the advent of Inkwell, I changed it to one path and one edict main.
Then I realized slowly through tournements and testing that taking one crack at swords/pathing a welder wasn't good enough.
The Goyfs and Sowers are in sideboards unless I happen to have to face bug fish, or Noble Hierarch fish. So I decided to switch the path and put in a darkblast. Darkblast does so many things, it kills Confidants and Welders, including my confidants if my life gets to low. It holds down ichorid since most of their fancy tricks involve having the ichorid make it to the main phase. It helps you keep them under the dred return cost. When you dredge it, it can put crucible targets in the yard. It'll keep orchard tokens in check while you look for the wasteland or bounce spell.
Trust me, you see Darkblast in many good sideboards as a one of, I'm trying it in the main.

To Everyone:

Sorry I've been off the com for a few days.
I'm testing my list with the crucible back in the main, everyone seems to think that triple extirpate is too much, so I'll take that advice and move it to two and put the crucible back. Then I'll switch it for the fourth duress effect.
But a note on extirpate that no one has seemed to notice.
The most powerful blue decks are turned off very quickly when I waste thier underground sea and then extirpate the rest away.
Extirpate combined with waste effects can devestate a frail mana base.
Against dredge, if I extirpate Narcomeba and ichorid my opponent cannot win.
Getting two out of two can be difficult, so I was running with three.
But I'm inclined to agree that I can get away with just two considering I have tutor effects.

A not about Swords to Plowshares.
I dilligently ran Swords up to the point when path to exile was released.
I understand that Path can be counter-intuitive to my mana denile package, however Swords is counter-intuitive to my win condition, creature damage.
When I'm put into a situation where I have to race against my own Dark Confidant, giving my opponent a large sum of life from a DC, or Titan, or large Goyf or Grave Troll puts me back 2-3 turns, which I cannot afford to do.
I'm running triple Aven MindCensor, and many decks are fetching out their basic lands against me as a precautionary messure to begin with. Odds are 50% of the time Path will net my opponents nothing, the other 50% they get put ahead one land which doesn't time walk them at all.

To policehq:

Duress effects are necessary for leading into Meddling Mages so you don't have to call them blind.
Duress effects also fill the graveyard with extirpate targets.
Keep in mind I'm expecting a lot of dredge at Gencon at least in the first few rounds.
In a tourney so big you can't even lose once, I cannot afford to lost to dredge game one.

To vassago:

Fitting the four duress effect has been on my mind.
Cutting Rushing River for it is a suggestion I haven't taken into consideration yet.
Rushing River is there mainly to work around Chalice of the Void which will normally be set at two or one.
Its my only main deck bounce spell and it clears the field for the alpha swing.
I have been advised to cut an extirpate to fit the fourth duress, what do you think?

To FAVO!!!!1:

I used to run a single path to exile in the main, but I had to nix it in favor of Darkblast.
The reason being with fish on the rise, and lots of dark confidant's and welder's running around, I can't afford to lose to having path countered.
It does nothing against inkwell and is too one shot if you know what I mean.
I used to run one path main and two in the board, so now I have all three in the board at the moment.
Thank you for your imput, I will see if I can fit a path main again.

Hello folks,
Admiral Ackbar here again.
This time I'm gearing up for Gencon in Indy.
I wrote up a preliminary list off the little information I have to currently work with.
I'm hoping people will find the time to read and critique what I have so far.
I only have a month to prepare, so I need help.

-Mana-
3 Polluted Delta   
3 Underground Sea   
3 Tundra
3 Wasteland
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Strip Mine
1 Mishra's Factory

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl

-Pressure-
4 Dark Confidant
3 Meddling Mage
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Cursecatcher
2 Kataki, War's Wage

-Counters-
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare

-Disruption-
3 Extirpate
2 Null Rod
2 Thoughtseize
1 Duress

-Answers-
1 Rushing River
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Darkblast

-Good Stuff-
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Vampiric Tutor   

Board

3 Path to Exile
3 Energy Flux
3 Engineered Plague
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Echoing Truth


Now the idea here is I hate budget decks.
Gencon is a no proxy event and as such I have to assume that the first four rounds will undoubtedly involve the three cheapest decks in vintage, Elf Bomb, Goblins (Vial or Food Chain), and Dredge (Mana, or no Mana).

In my last post I was muddling over playing RootWater Thief in my main.
I've decided that at the moment there is no room for that Tez hater.
From information I've attained on the drain it seems that Tez players are adopting spell snare into their mains, which makes sense since they now are nearly forced to play Dark Confidant to replace those thirsts and it counters mana drain the best counter printed.
Out of fear of getting wiped out by combinations drains and snares, I've swapped that spot out for cursecatcher despite my old hatred for twenty turn clocks.

Extirpate main is an idea I've been attempting to implement for a long time, I used to run it back in the day when I was stuck on playing black white fish.
Now that I've matured some and improved some that card eventually made its way to the sideboard slots.
However for Gencon it just might be necessary to see them game one.
Extirpating Narcomeba and Ichorid more often than not wins you that game one.
And typically Dredge is a lose win lose situation for me, so with extirpate main I'm hoping instead for a win lose win situation.

Against Goblins and Elves I bring in my standard critter hate package, spiced with my experimental twist, Engineered Plague.
I'm hoping that fills in the whole against those two matches which are honestly not very good for me at all.
The card may even find itself getting sideboarded in against Oath just to name spirits.

With Enlightened Tutor unrestricted I'm posed with the question of running them somewhere in my list.
I don't think they can make it main with the only targets being null rod or Black Lotus main.
In the days when I ran crucible and top main potentially. But I had to cut them to make room for extirpates.
I'm testing two in the board right now to fetch other board cards like energy flux, engineered plague, or relic.
They may end up being cut in favor of pithing needle or engineered explosives or something else.


That's it for now, I'll leave with some sideboard tech and hopefully start hearing things soon.
-Admiral Ackbar, Team Rebel Alliance. R.I.P The Wookie

Stacks or Mud

+3 Energy Flux
+3 Path to Exile
+2 Enlightened Tutor
+ 1 Diabolic Edict

-3 Cursecatcher
-3 Spell Snare
-2 Thoughtseize
-1 Duress

Tez

+3 Path to Exile
+1 Diabolic Edict

-2 Kataki
-1 Rushing River
-1 Time Walk

Dredge

+3 Path to Exile
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+2 Enlightened Tutor
+1 Echoing Truth
+1 Diabolic Edict

-3 Spell Snare
-2 Null Rod
-2 Thoughtseize
-1 Duress
-1 Kataki

Goblins

+3 Path to Exile
+3 Engineered Plague
+2 Enlightened Tutor
+1 Diabolic Edict

-3 Extirpate
-2 Null Rod
-2 Cursecatcher
-1 Duress
-1 Kataki

Elf Bomb

+3 Path to Exile
+3 Engineered Plague
+2 Enlightened Tutor
+1 Diabolic Edict

-3 Extirpate
-2 Null Rod
-2 Kataki
-1 Duress
-1 Cursecatcher

Mirror

+3 Path to Exile
+1 Diabolic Edict
+1 Echoing Truth

-3 Extirpate
-2 Null Rod

Oath

+1 Diabolic Edict
+1 Echoing Truth

-2 Null Rod

To Darklanter:

Thanks, its really wierd but I was just looking for room for sol ring.
I mean its good already and soon it can't even mana burn me
Ring pushes out hard Fows, censors, tops with activation.
I might try it but then I'd need a foil sol ring

To Lurker:

Rushing River gets chalice for two off the field, and it used to synergize with the crucible I ran.
I eventually cut stifles from the main, so I couldn't stife past chalice for two anymore so I have to have a way to get that off the field.
Beiing able to hit two targets also seemed good.
Echoing truth is in my board.

I know what your saying about dude being mana intensive.
I added him to the list for fourreasons.
1. He ups my threat count too 15.
2. He ups my blue count too 20.
3. Two swings against any combo deck should be able to do it, grab vault then grab inkwell and they can't win.
Or grab tendrills, or oath targets, you get the idea.
4. He has 2 toughness, which keeps him out of the range of mog fanatic and darkblast and such.

I'd only play cursecatcher were I'm running noble fish, cause he gets some balls.
The null rods went in the board cause they are great against tez, and belcher, but kinda terrible against everything else.
I've only played tez once per tourney in my last five. So I moved the rods to the board.
For gencon they'll most def be in the main, but for random blue bell nonsense I think I should be ok.

                                 Mana

3   Polluted Delta
3   Underground Sea
3   Tundra      
3   Wasteland   
2   Flooded Strand   
1   Island   
1   Swamp      
1   Strip Mine
1   Mishra's Factory      
1   Mox Sapphire
1   Mox Jet
1   Mox Pearl
1   Black Lotus

                              Creatures

4   Dark Confidant
3   Meddling Mage
3   Aven Mindcensor
3   Rootwater Thief
2   Kataki, War's Wage   


                               CounterMagic

4   Force of Will
3   Spell Snare
3   Negate

                                 Disruption

2   Duress
2   Thoughtseize

                                 Answers

1   Rushing River
1   Diabolic Edict
1   Darkblast

                                 Good Stuff

1   Time Walk
1   Ancestral Recall   
1   Demonic Tutor
1   Brainstorm
1   Sensei's Divining Top   
1   Vampiric Tutor   

                                Sideboard

3   Path to Exile
3   Extirpate
3   Energy Flux   
2   Null Rod
2   Relic of Progenitus
1   Echoing Truth   
1   Diabolic Edict         


So this is the list, I'm gearing up for Blue Bell on Saturday and I wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts or ideas on what I should do to improve this pile.
This is Sean Lind and those who know me know I'll never change deck. (unless its to another fish varient)
My last few experiences with the greater Philly meta has been thats its slightly chaotic.
I've only played Tez in any form once per event in the last four.
So I tried to gear my list to be able to take a more chaotic variety of decks.
Please be cruel I wanna hear what needs to be said.
-Ackbar

R.I.P. The Wookie!

Hey its Sean Lind here.
Those of you who know me, know me because I've been playing the same wizard fish deck for about three years.
I was wondering if anyone had one or two spaces in a vehicle for myself and a friend to ride up to the next TMD.
We're in the philly area, so if anyone could possibly accomodate, I would be greatly appreciative.
Compensation for gas and other expenses like tolls and stuff with gladly be given.

Hey its Sean,
Your compliment of me is highly undeserved, and I thank you very much for that.
Quick question, with the Meta moving in the direction it is do you think the EEs in my board, might be better off as a fourth spell snare and perhaps an additional duress effect? Or is four snare in the board a bit too focussed?
My list is in the main ELD post, let me know if you get a chance to mull over it.
Thanks again
-Sean

Hey its Sean Lind, the fish player.
My opening thoughtseize only saw two lands in your hand, so a mana denial strategy didn't sound too terrible.
The only thing I would have done differently in hindsight is hold a waste effect for a turn, so I could have Demonic Tutored for my deck's crucible.
When I did tutor, I only had two lands in play and none in hand.
A grevious mistake in deed.
Good work on the 100% win percentage.
I hope to see you at the next event, Where I will have my revenge!
lol
Good Work
-Sean