Great idea Ben!  Sounds like fun.  I will be there.  I knew holding onto my playset of Foil Gushes would pay off.

Let's not forget that the +2 ability can potentially combo with Tunnel Vision.  This card looks good reguardless.  Maybe it won't see play in Vintage.  But it will for sure in Standard, and possibly Extended. 

DAkilled, sooo good!

looking foreward to playing some Vintage again. orangenicky and i will make the trip. hope we get a good turnout. see you all there.

No free bye this year Jimmy.  I won't be playing a deck I have never played in a tournament before....Or maybe I will....but either way you can bet there will be no Grim Tutors in my deck this year. 

I am in.  And Lou, I hope you are going to make it this year.  I would like to repay you for your KINDness last year.  I am pumped for this event.

Missing cards from my list are 2 Tropical Island.

My (Derek Wochinski) top 8 list...

3x Phyrexian Dreadnought
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Stifle
1x Trickbind
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
4x Negate
4x Null Rod
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Misdirection
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Brainstorm
1x Ponder
2x Telling Time
1x Trinket Mage
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Sapphire
4x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
3x Tropical Island
5x Island


SB
3x Anull
2x Trygon Predator
4x Sower of Temptation
1x Threads of Disloyalty
1x Echoing Truth
1x Pithing Needle
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Relic of Progenetis

The deck did what it was supposed to do, beat the top decks.  But, in top 4 I ran into Naya Aggro.  Never saw any of my Sowers or Threads.  My lone Goyf just looked scared. 

Memo to all ICBMers....I can get you a Mystery Machine,  if you guys can come up with the A-Team Van you will all get free entry!!!

Hey Jimmy, this is Derek.  If I drove to Milwaukee, would I be able to get a ride with you to the tourney? 

I think what Owen meant to say, was that giving 4 Brainstorms to Time Vault Combo, would make Vault more of a problem, not less.  Jamestosetti, where are you from?  Italy?  I think there is a healthy Vintage scene in Italy.  You should try and find some Vintage players, so you can get to know the format.  I know it can be hard to grasp when you can't actually cast the spells against anyone.

Let me start by saying that I am one of the people who plays the Time Vault/Voltaic Key Tez deck.  And while I do think it is the best deck right now, there are many cards that can stop it.  The problem is that people just don't seem to be playing them.  I can think of at least 8 cards, that would really give the Tez deck trouble.  These cards are Vintage playables, and I haven't seen them played yet in the Time Vault era.  I really don't care to list them because I enjoy the success I have been having with the Tez deck.  Besides, these cards have been played in the past, and are no secret.   

That's just my 2 cents on this thread.  What I really wanted to respond to is what Jaco and Co. were talking about.  I have only been playing competitive Vintage since 2006.  And the idea of a Vintage rebirth, via mass unrestrictions, is exciting to me.  There are many decks and archetypes that I missed out on.  Personally I regret not playing Gush when it was recently unrestricted.  At the time I was playing only Workshop strategies.  When I finally decided to put the Gush deck together, it became re-restricted before the next tournament.  There are other things I never got to explore because for me, they have always been restricted.   

All this being said I think the metagame is fine right now.  We just need to give it a little more time to evolve.  There are ways of dealing with the Tez deck, that don't involve restricting Mana Drain or Thirst for Knowledge. 

But, if it does prove to be too powerful to handle.  I would be in favor of a figurative reset of the restricted list.  Perhaps this would even bring people back into Vintage?  Some people may have quit playing, because some of their favorite cards or decks were no longer playable?  Perhaps this would also bring some new Vintage players in?  I know some people have been concerned with declining numbers in attendance.  Maybe I am wrong and 95% of the restricted list is where it belongs.  But personally I would be excited by the idea of unrestricting everything that doesn't obviously belong on the restricted list.  And then re-restricting from there. 

I agree with you James, I definitely got lazy and didn't mull some hands I should have against Jimmy in top 8.  But, this makes 4 top 8's in a row for me, and I will definitely be more focused in the future.  Getting close is making me hungry.  Along with renewed focus, and some fairly major changes to my deck, I won't be satisfied with anything less than a finals appearance next time.

I've done it again...  Another top 8 (ICBM Open # 8) with Intuition Vault Combo.  I'll have some observations tomorrow. 

@ Heiner

You are right, I didn't give you any examples of why 3 Reconstructions is the right number. 

If your hand has 2 Intuitions, no combo pieces and no Reconstructions, you can cast IT for Reconstruct, Reconstruct, Piece.  And then on the next turn again for Reconstruct, Yawg Will, other piece.  I realize this is pretty weak, but it could be relivant if both yours and your opponent's hands are depleated. 

Here are some situations where you might want to have Reconstruction in hand.

Having Reconstruction with either Demonic or Vampiric Tutor is just like having Tutor and a counterspell that costs 1.  Because assuming you Tutor out a combo piece, if they counter it you get it back.

Another thing to consider is Reconstructions interaction with Thirst for Knowledge.  Say you cast Thirst, with no artifacts in hand, and you draw Time Vault, Force of Will, any Blue card.  Having Reconstruction in your hand allows you to pitch the Vault and also have counter backup for when you try to replay your Vault. 

Another interaction is Reconstruction and Black Lotus.  Crack Lotus for 3 mana, Reconstruct it and crack it again.  This could get you a first turn Tez, or any number of other things. 

Some of these things were talked about in Meadberts original post.  Are 3 Reconstructions needed?  NO.  But add the fact that you can pitch your 3rd Reconstruction to Force and not worry about it, and I like it.  I guess it is preferance for the mix of cards you use in your deck.

As far as Tez goes. Say your game goes long, and you can't get your combo through Intuition.  This is when having Tez could win you the game.  You will have the mana, and he will get you the pieces.  He is really just a backup plan, and second win condition.  Plus he can be pitched to Force/Misdirection. 



As for this whole discussion, I wasn't saying that playing bad artifacts increases the value of TFK.  I was saying that DSC is uncastable in your hand.  Therefore pitching any other artifact and holding onto DSC, even a mox, makes no sense at all.  When you have a mox in hand TFK does not read 2U draw 3 cards.  Because the Mox can be played, and used to create mana.  DSC cannot be played 98% of the time.  Therefore it is a dead card in your hand.  A mox is almost never a dead card. 

I don't play TFK because it makes DSC better.  I make the case for playing TFK better.  Because it gives you a way to get DSC out of your hand, where it is dead, and back into your deck so it can be Tinkered out if need be. 


@ rilegard

Frantic Search seem like it might have something to add to the deck.  Let us know what your testing reveals.

I absolutely agree that I had the surprise factor.  I completely understand the arguments for Mana Drain.  I would love it if it fit into the deck better.  But this is more of a combo deck, where most Time Vault decks using Tezzeret are pure control.  Realisticly, Mana Drain can't be cast until second turn.  This is the turn that, all things in place, you want to be casting Intuition.  Now I can understand how some people might say, why not Mana Drain on your opponents second turn and then cast Intuition on your 3rd turn, with the Drain mana.  This could be the right way to do it.  I decided to try Negate, and it seemed like the right card.  It was a late decision to go with Negate over Mana Drain.(I decided the night before)  I will continue testing both, but for now, I have to go with Negate.  Keep in mind that this deck wants to start winning as soon as it gets to 3 mana. 

Dear Soly, 

I understand that Mana Drain fuels things like that.  But unless you draw Black Lotus or Mox Sapphire in your opener,(I know you don't know anything about having Lotus in your opener) then Mana Drain is impossible to cast first turn.  I like having the ability to Negate my opponents first turn Ancestral or Null Rod or Oath of Druids etc... 

Like Meadbert said, I don't care about creatures.  There are only 2 creatures I need to worry about, and one of them doesn't see much play.  Say a deck has to deal me 16 damage before I combo off.  Say they are lucky and have first turn Goyf followed by second turn Bob.  That still gives me at least 4 turns to combo.

I wasn't trying to rip on Ryan.  I'm sure you would agree with me that he is a good player.  And that he has played control decks featuring most of the card he played in his deck last weekend.  I was just trying to make the point that the control matchup is good. 

I know most of the world thinks Reconstruction is garbage, and it probably is, in your deck.  In this deck, I would rather have Reconstruct than Regrowth.

I will be playing this deck at the next ICBM open, and I hope we get to test the matchup again.  And I hope you don't start each game with Black Lotus, Ancestral Recall, or Tinker like you have been doing to me in the last 3 tournaments.  Honestly, it would not matter what deck I was playing.  Like you said before, you open with Black Lotus into Tinker, and have Reb for my Force.  What can I do about that? 

All my love, Derek.   

What I meant to say is, I felt like I should win every match I played.  I didn't feel like I got any bad matchups. 

I would not play entomb.  I would rather Intuition and get the cards in my grave.  Intuition gives you a card you want, plus puts cards you want into the grave.  It seems better than entomb.  Transmute is something I have considered.  But I have not tested it enough to have an opinion on it yet. 

@ Heiner.

Do I ever feel like Keys, Reconstructions, and Tez are dead cards?  Not at all.  Tez is a one of in the deck, and he can win you the game, so he is not dead.  Having a Key or Reconstruction in hand when I cast Intuition is the exact situation the deck is hoping for.  The problem is when you don't have any Reconstructs or combo pieces in hand.  In this situation you have to see what your hand looks like and Intuition from there.  If I have just disruption left in my hand I will Intuition for Reconstruct, Reconstruct, Time Vault.  If I have some Thirsts or Gifts in my hand I will Intuition out Reconstruct, Reconstruct, Key.  Having a Reconstruction or combo peice in hand when I Intuition you just grab Reconstruct, Reconstruct, and the other combo piece.  Or Both combo pieces and reconstruct.  This is why 3 Reconstruction is the right number.

The matchup vs. combo.  You say I cannot keep up with combo.  In round 1 of the top 8 I played against U/R/B Grim Long.  I beat him in 2 Games.  Game 1 I probably got lucky.  But post board I have a very good matchup vs. combo.  My deck will contain something like 3 Duress, 1 Thoughtseze, 1 Mind Twist, 4 Force of Will, 3 Negate, 1 Misdirection.  Assuming I get a turn I will probably have some disruption for them.  If I don't get a turn, then I have 4 Force of Will and that is about all any deck can do without getting a turn.  

In the match I won 7 games in a row.  The games went early Intuition leads to the win.  I think once I had first turn Tinker DSC.  Control really can't out-control you when they are using the same draw spells you are.  Plus extra Duress effects can really swing things in your favor.

You say DSC in not better to pitch to Thirst than any other artifact.  Pitching a DSC to Thirst feels Great because it is Great.  Last time I checked that bad boy costs ELEVEN to cast.  The place for this guy is in my library so I can Tinker him out, not in my hand.  When he is in my hand Thirst for knowlege reads 2U Instant Draw 3 cards.  I don't understand why you would rather hold onto it, and pitch another card, rather than shuffle it back in fear of drawing it again.

That's right, I did pilot this deck to a 4th place finish.  And with all respects to Brian Fisher I think it should have been a Finals apperance.  I mulligained away any card advantage I might have had there.  The reason I think this is that, in my opinion, the Intuition/Reconstruction/Argavian Find version of Tez decks is the fastest.  There were at least 6 Time vault combo decks at this tournament.  Most of them focusing on Tezzeret.  All except mine were 3 or 4 colors. 

The reasons I think Intuition/Vault is better than other Tezzeret decks are...

#1 The manabase.  2 colors allows me to run 4 basics.  Meadbert I know you questioned the Swamp, but what should it have been?  The only spell in my deck that costs double blue is Tezzeret.  I could understand another Fetch, but I don't like to run more Fetches than lands to Fetch with them. 

#2  The endgame.  In Tezzeret based decks they are trying to win the turn after they play Tezzeret, a 5 cc spell.  In Intuition/Vault decks you are trying to win the turn after you play Intuition, a 3 cc spell.  Seems like a no brainer to me. 

Other Tez decks might like to play a better control game, but this is Time Vault Combo.  And that is what this deck does.  In round 5 of the swiss I was paired up against another Tez deck.  I won pretty easily both games, one of them casting 2 Ancestrals thanks to Misdirection.  My opponent (Ryan Meyrand) was interested in my build of the deck, and asked to play some more games just for fun.  Including the 2 games we played for the round, we played 7 games.  I won them all!!  I think only 1 game went longer than 4 turns before I was taking infinate turns.  After the 7th game I got up to report our results to see that there were still people playing the round.  Ridiculous!

Some observations on the list that I played...

Like some others who have posted in this forum, I too think this deck should be Blue/Black.  The only thing I miss white for is the sideboard.  I will get to the sideboard in a little bit.

Negate over Mana Drain.  In testing I very rarely cast Mana Drain.  It was getting pitched to Force more often than being cast.  So I decided to try Negate, since there are really no creatures that this deck is afraid of.  I loved Negate, the ability to have a first turn counterspell that you don't have to remove a blue card to cast, is very powerful.   

Thirst for Knowledge.  I think this is the right draw spell for sure.  At least 3 times I shuffled my DSC back off TFK.  When this happens it is like drawing 3 cards.  Thirst is the most synergestic draw spell with Reconstruction.  You almost never care about discarding a mox to it because the deck runs off 3 mana.  Accumulated Knowlege is too slow.  And Impulse is like casting Thirst and never finding an artifact to pitch to it.

Ponder.  Ponder is a good card and it worked but.  In the future I think I will try Sensei's Top in it's place.  There is staying power with Sensei's Top, and it can be pitched to Thirst.

Tezzeret the Seeker.  I was very happy with ONE and ONLY ONE Tez.  I added him because I felt I needed a second win condition.  Every time I randomly drew him I felt like I was cheating.  He has the ability to win you the game, can be pitched to Force, and is a win condition.

The sideboard.  I was very happy with my 3 Duress 1 Mind Twist package, to go along with my 2 maindeck Thoughtseize.  The card I am most afraid of seeing is possibly Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast.  These black cards clear the way nicely, so I don't walk into a Blast.  You might be saying Mind Twist? Really?  This deck has a lot of mana.  Mind Twist can take advantage of that nicely.  In game 2 of round 3 it was second turn and my opponent had Pithing Needle naming Vault and Etherium Sculpter in play.  I cast Hurkyl's Recall on him followed by Mind Twist for 6!!  That was game right there. 

I agree with Meadbert that I would have liked to have one more piece of Ichorid hate.  I had 1 Extirpate, 2 Jailers, 1 Tormod's (which I reconstructed one game vs. Ichorid), and my maindeck Echoing Truth. 

The Sowers I never used, and the Spell Snare was a late throw in.  I think the 2 Hurkyl's and 1 Rebuild were good. 


In conclusion, I loved this deck.  I will continue to play it.  Thank you to Meadbert for coming up with this deck idea.  I felt like I should win every game I played.  I hope this is helpful for anyone wishing to play this deck.  Any question, feel free to ask. 

Cheers, Derek.

On Sunday I played at the College of Dupage.  There were only 14 people, but no lack of competition.  3 members of the 2008 Vintage champs were in attendance.  We played 4 rounds of Swiss cut to top 4.

Here is what I played...

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Cursecatcher
1 Ohran Viper

4 Force of Will
3 Mana Leak
4 Stifle
3 Null Rod
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
3 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
1 Echoing Truth
1 Merchannt Scroll

1 Black Lotus
4 Mox Emerald, Jet, Sapphire, Ruby
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand

SB
2 Pithing Needle
3 Yixlid Jailer
3 Sower of Temptation
2 Krosan Grip
2 Maze of Ith
2 Trygon Predator
1 Extirpate


In the swiss I played 4 VERY different Tez decks.  The match up is very good vs. Tez and I went 3-1.  My opponents were Round 1 Brian Fischer, Round 2 Mike Solymossy, Round 3 Jimmy Mcarthy, Round 4 Danny Freidman.  My loss came from Soly.  His deck featured a lot of draw, coupled with him having Ancestral and Tinker early in both games.  Game ! he just out drew me even after i double Duress/Thoughtseized him.  Game 2, I was on the play and led with Cursecatcher.  He played Mox, land, Ancestral, and there my Catcher sat.  I managed to get Tarmo and double BOB on board.  But I could only get him to 1 life before he had stolen my Goyf and 1 of my BOBs.  He finds Sensei's Top a turn before my stolen Bob would have killed him.

I made top 4.  It was...
1.  Owen Turtenwald (ICBM) BUG Faeries w/Tarmogoyf and Chalice of the Void, no Null Rod
2.  John Donovan (GWS) BUG Fish
3.  (Me) Derek Wochinski (Team ICEHOLE) BUG Fish
4.  Jason Jaco (BHWW) Confidant Tez

Round 1 of top 4 I get the mirror match.  Going into the game I am very confidant, because I have made some favorable metagame choices with my deck.  In testing, the only decks that were giving me problems were other aggro decks, namely Jamison Bryant's WGR Zoo deck.  I thought it was very likely that Jamison would be at this tournament, so I decided that I would have to be able to beat him.  I main decked Ohran Viper, and Sided 2 Maze of Ith for the aggro match up. 

Game 1 of top 4.  I am on the draw.  I win ea sly with Stifles and Wasteland/Stripmine keeping him from casting anything, while I beat with Goyf and Bob. 

Game 2.  I take out 4 Cursecatcher, and 3 Null Rod.  In comes 2 Sower of Temptation, 1 Krosan Grip, 2 Maze of Ith, and 2 Trygon Predator along with my already main decked Ohran Viper.  The game starts, and I get a Bob and Goyf on board only to see them stolen with Control Magic.  I never see any of my sideboard cards and lose. 

Game 3.  More of the same, never see a sideboard card.  Lose to my own dudes.  ]

John Donovan and Owen split the finals after Owen convinced him that it wasn't even worth playing, because Owen would crush him. 


Some observations on the deck I played....

4 Stifle.  This card is amazing.  It was never dead all day long.  Early game it acts as a Strip Mine.  The rest of the game it protects your mana base, and has so many other uses.  It can buy you the turn you need to drop Null Rod vs. Tez, Key, or Time Vault.  It stops Tendrils' Storm.  It stops the Dreaded Sundering Titain's comes into play ability.  I think it even stops Sower's from ripping off your creatures.  It will stop an Engineered Explosives at 2 from killing all your dudes.  The list goes on......I think the reason people haven't liked it in the past, is because they did not play 4 of them.  I love this card.

Mana Leak over Negate.  I figured with 4 Stifle, 3 Null Rod, 4 Wasteland, 1 Strip Mine, and 4 Cursecatcher to control the opponent's mana base, Mana Leak was better.  There was only 1 time when the difference came up all day.  It was when I Leaked a creature that negate would have just watched go by.  There was not a single time that Leak was dead in my hand.  I know it was possible, but it never happened this day.  There were plenty of times, late game, where my opponent was trying for a big turn to win because I had pressure on the board.  Mana Leak worked for me.

Ohran Viper and Maze of Ith.  Like I said, these were just metagame choices.  I did miss the Demonic Tutor that I had to cut.  Never saw the Maze, so I don't know if it was good or not.

Cursecatcher.  I didn't like him.  All day I wished he was a creature that would draw me cards.  People would see him and just play around him.  Anyone with a mox in their opening hand just didn't care about him.  Maybe I should put the 4th Null Rod back into the deck before I make a decision on him?  But I kept wishing he was something else...Cold-Eyed Selkie???

Overall I loved the deck and will continue playing it.  It won me an Unlimited Tropical Island.  I hope I have provided some good feedback on this deck.