Resolving both 2cc spells against Shop would probably be a challenge even if we didn't consider Chalice@2.

This.  Where's StP?  Also, Null Rod?

Long expends more resources to cast its spells.  Walking into Drain with Ritual -> Necropotence costs you 2 cards instead of 1, and the extra acceleration also means a lower threat density, which favors countermagic. Draw 7s are also naturally problematic against a deck with lots of countermagic since refilling the opponent's is more likely to end badly.

Just because it's an ETB removal effect doesn't mean you can remove the activation cost on Pridemage and call it a day.  The closest benchmark for an ETB artifact destruction 2 drop would be Tin Street Hooligan.  Your card is much, much better than Hooligan, and Hooligan already saw some Vintage/Legacy play.

It needs to either have a kicker for the ETB effect, or not have exalted, or be a 1/1.

Have you considered Ancient Tombs?  You have a lot of key spells that could use the : liquimetals, Magus of the Moon, heretic, Shaman (against higher 1cc+ targets).

If color screw is an issue, you could also pair them with Manamorphose with no drawbacks except against Shop, which you already destroy anyway.

Has anyone tested this deck against a control deck which includes Duress effects?  I'm curious how Burning Long fares against a mixed disruption suite with both counters and Duress (say, something like 4x Fow/4x Drain/4x Duress/2x Snapcaster), since some plentiful gas/little business hands will inevitably be vulnerable to Duress.  Granted, we don't see all that much Duress these days with how much Shops and Dredge are a part of the meta, but this would still be good to know.

Yeah, cutting the 3rd Snapcaster seems solid.  I also don't hate cutting the 2nd Bolt in favor of different removal, but not for Rack and Ruin...

Yeah, what the deck really needs is Brainstorms #2-#4 (or a comparable effect such as TfK or Jace, assuming it could fit) to filter out dead cards.

I'm under the impression that typical modern blue decks run fewer Flusterstorms when they have Mistep, so they usually have the same number of dead slots at something like 2x of each.

I'll assume that the point you're making, though, is that you have a strong Shop matchup already.


Sweet.

How Shop-infested would your meta have to be, before you consider cutting down on Flusterstorms in favor of Mana Drain?  Or is the Shop matchup simply secure enough post-board that this isn't necessary?

Also, no Sensei's Divining Top?  Do we have enough topdeck control from the 4x Jace that we don't need SDT or Preordains to protect ourselves from our own Bobs?

Did some playtesting with your list against control, Dredge, and Shops.  Thoughts:

1. How is your list superior to Grim Long in any way?  It appears that much of the time, you'd rather have Grim Tutors (especially with the ritual acceleration) and all of your bombs maindecked instead.  The versatility provided by BW seems wasted in a relatively linear deck that's not looking to play control.

2. Having to pay that 1 mana for Duress/Therapy actually gets in the way more than you'd think.  A singleton sideboard Duress for Wishing might be better.

3. Jace and Gifts are too slow for this deck.  We're not lacking powerful effects to burn mana on; if we're gonna drop any 4cc+ bombs they should really only be Tendrils, Bargain, or Desire.

4. Not enough filtering.  1 Ancestral, 1 BS, and 4 Gitaxian Probes don't really carry the weight of the missing Ponder/Preordains.

5. Land count is slightly short at 12.  We probably want 13 to reliably make our first two land drops.  Conversely, 3 Cabal Rituals is too many.  We're not as properly equipped to use them as well as a traditional Grim Long (which doesn't need  ).

6. Relying soley on Wishing for win conditions is awkward.  Tinker and 1 copy of Tendrils should be maindecked for the faster wins they provide.  With Mystical, Demonic, and Vampiric in the mix, it's nice to have some quick wins to tutor for, rather than be forced to tutor chain for BW.

7. Sideboard: I have no idea what the Chain of Vapors are for.  Only 4 slots vs. Dredge is essentially conceding the matchup, we need at least 7.

If we're going for a Grim Long type shell rather than all-out combo, we're going to want the extra disruption to hang with those control decks that play Flusterstorm and Misstep (although we're obviously not looking to trade FoW against those cards specifically).  Rather, we want the extra slots so we're not bringing only 4 Duress and 2 Cabal Therapys against a deck with potentially up to 4 FoW, 2 Mana Drain, 2 Duress, 2 Misstep, 2 Flusterstorm (not to mention better CA than us).  6 disruption slots won't cut it against 7-12 if we're running a Grim Long type shell.

Though it's not absolutely necessary, I'd say being able to Force a turn 1 Lodestone when on the draw makes a huge difference to the matchup.  Why give up one of the best blue cards ever printed if we're already capable of supporting it?

BW is not clearly better than Scroll.  Scroll grabs Ancestral, any counterspell, and Mystical, and also benefits from being blue (both for being easier to cast and pitchable to Fow).


Then you're missing out on opportunities for quick wins where you do not want to spend 1R for BW.  There's a reason why the original Long.dec (which played 4x BW) still ran a maindeck Tendrils.


Yeah, we need to get 4x FoW into the deck.

The problem with Izzet Charm is that it's -1 CA when you use it to filter.  We're also not running a lot of conditional chaff, aside from BSC.

Running as many draw 7s as possible greatly improves the deck's card drawing and give us the ability to overwhelm control decks instead of losing horribly after they sit back and counter one key spell.  The full suite of moxen should be included, since we have a bunch of spells that could use that extra colorless mana anyway.  Finally, if we're gonna run Tinker for Memory Jar, then we can have Blightsteel as a solid alternate win condition.  Here's how I'd do it:

Lands (11)
5 Fetchlands
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Volcanic Island
1 Island

Mana Acceleration (19)
1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
4 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song

Disruption (4)
4 Force of Will

Card Drawing/Filtering (12)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Manamorphose

Tutoring (8)
1 Mystical Tutor
3 Intuition
4 Burning Wish

Win (6)
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Windfall
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Memory Jar
1 Blightsteel Colossus


Sideboard:
1 Timetwister
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames
12 Other


I'm still not convinced that this would be viable, but the changes would help.  It might be necessary to splash black for the sheer power of Yawg and the tutors, but at that point, it's not particularly superior to a Ritual deck with Tendrils, which is fairly questionable already.  We really need 4x Brainstorms to smooth things out before any of these blue combo decks are truly top tier contenders again.

Perhaps I was ambiguous.  What I meant is that in general (against a wide field), you're usually better off with 1x Nihil + 1x Hurkyl's in your maindeck, because on average those cards are reasonable against all decks.  By contrast, Rakdos is both less efficient and more narrow.


Yes, but it's stronger in general.


That's a benefit, sure, but a negligible one.

1x Nihil Spellbomb + 1x Hurkyl's > 2 Rakdos Charms as versatile maindeck hate goes.

And EE is useful against both dredge and shops.

Nihil Spellbomb, Bolt, StP, Hurkyl's, and EE are all more efficient options for maindeck hate.

For most decks, dedicating only 4 sideboard slots to Dredge is essentially conceding the matchup.

Ahh, my mistake for missing that.

I used to play with both Intuition-AK and Fact in their respective heydays, so I'm not unfamiliar with their use. While I don't have extensive experience playing with Intuition/AK and Fact and Snapcaster, the testing I tried with your list suggests that it's too clunky and win-more.  In general, if you're capable of resolving Intuition or Fact, followed by AK and/or Snapcaster+AK, you were already winning in the first place.  Against Shops, it typically means you've got 4+ mana free or their board state is heavily in check.  Against Dredge, it means they're controlled by your sb hate or you drew the nuts.  Against blue decks, you managed to win the counter war to resolve it.  I do agree that Intuition-AK and Fact are generally underrated by most people who didn't play with them in the glory days, but I also think it should be fairly uncontroversial that Gushbond and Jace are generally superior engines today.


How often are you trying to cast Intuition on turn 2 anyway?   We already have a lot of turn 2 options, notably Drain, but also Ancestral, BS, TfK, Mystical, Merchant Scroll, Tinker, Vamp, Demonic, Time Walk, Timetwister, Fastbond->Gush, Regrowth, Snapcaster...  Intuition usually isn't the spell you want to cast first except when baiting counters.  As for Fact, Jace is usually playable whenever Fact is (except when holding back Drain), and is typically a more powerful/flexible (if less explosive) option.


Only if you're not actually interacting with your opponent, and only when I don't hit my explosive bombs and end the game immediately.


We also drop the mana curve substantially and provide more explosiveness, both of which help a lot with the Shop matchup.  We drop the number of basics by 1, which is more than outweighed by the sb hate options (as well as the sheer power of Fastbond) provided by green.  Duress and Mental Misstep (included to protect the additional bombs and for the synergy with Snapcaster) are admittedly poor vs. Shop, but the Shop matchup still ends up favorable with the game 1 Hurkyl's and the ability to bring in more Hurkyl's and Nature's Claim in games 2/3.
 

Your list gains more CA on average in a vacuum, and only goldfishes similarly because it lacks explosive finishing.  However, in an interactive game your list falls behind when it's not already winning substantially.  Mana Leaks are better against Shops (and only Shops), sure.  However, this is heavily outweighed by the strength of maindeck Hurkyl's (especially hilarious with Snapcaster) and greater explosiveness.

Overall, your list has more explosive (and expensive) CA, but has less explosive winning.  Most importantly, running 4 basics, 2 colors, and 0 Tendrils to hedge against Shops is less efficient than simply running maindeck Hurkyl's + Tendrils, and green for Gushbond and Claim.


Edit: I'm stupid and forgot about Mana Vault.

If you're not capitalizing on a storm win condition, what exactly makes your list Drain Tendrils as opposed to simply a Drain deck with a subpar draw engine instead of Bob or Gushbond?


It might help if you had 2x maindeck Hurkyl's Recall along with the Tendrils that they can fuel.  It might also help if you had green or red to sideboard Nature's Claim or Ingot Chewers (somethin that's more valuable against Shop than the keeping the deck two colors).  Finally, it might also help if you weren't relying on a draw engine that is not only expensive, but twice affected by sphere effects (the 2 Tiagos only add to this).

Here's a more thoroughly revised list with a much better Shop matchup (particularly with additional Hurkyl's and Claims in the sb), stronger draw engine, lower mana curve, similar goldfishing, and a comparable control package:

6 Fetchlands
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
3 Island (1 Snow Covered is fine)
1 Tolarian Academy

8 Artifact Mana

2 Mental Misstep
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
2 Duress

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Gush

1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Tinker
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Jace, the Mindsculptor

2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth
1 Blightsteel Colossus

Why not utilize the Gushbond engine and Jace instead of a clunky mix of Intuition/AK and FoF:

-4 Accumulated Knowledge
-4 Intuition
-2 Fact or Fiction
-1 Underground Sea
-1 Island

+1 Fastbond
+4 Gush
+2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
+1 Tendrils of Agony
+1 Timetwister
+1 Vampiric Tutor
+2 Tropical Island

You get the raw power/speed of Gushbond and Jace, the return of Vampiric with a few more juicy targets (Fastbond, Jace, Timetwister), and a lower mana curve.  The addition of green allows you to support some sb hate like Claims too, while only requiring a single additional nonbasic.  Oh, and the missing Tendrils.

My opinion is more nuanced.  Perhaps “threat” wasn’t the right word, the main issue is just that running high mana cost cards screws up the density of business by requiring too many mana sources.  The card you proposed would absolutely be valuable to your human deck.


In a vacuum, Chalice is probably stronger if you’re not running Rod/Stony.  However, in a meta infested by Shops and Dredge, Chalice is ineffective against both while Misstep is at least solid against Dredge.

The inefficiency isn’t the card itself.  The inefficiency is the fact that you have to substantially dilute your threat density to run the mana needed to throw around 4cc spells.

There’s a good reason why 4cc spells in Vintage are primarily the domain of blue (with mana drain and the card drawing to put together mana sources), are played off Shop, or are cheated into play.

“Threats” do include cards that deny the opponent’s ability to respond, and good examples from your list include Thalia and Revoker.  My main concern is that you’re going too far by playing 4cc creatures when you should be keeping aggro decks more efficient instead.  


Yeah, this is what I mean.  I don’t disagree in principle with the idea of protecting your threats, it’s probably just not optimal to rely on a large mana base and 4cc cards to do it.


Perhaps Loam would be a superior option to Crucible?

Is protecting your threats really worth reducing your threat density substantially in order to play the mana needed for 4cc creatures that don't disrupt the opponent?

Instead of playing 31 mana sources and 3 Restoration Angels + 2 Venser, you could be running 25 mana sources and 11 more threats.  That seems far more effective than trying to get a beatdown deck to play with reactive 4cc cards.

If it's somehow actually more effective for a beatdown deck to give up ~40% of its threats to support some pseudo-countermagic, then we really should be asking the question of why we aren't simply playing a control/aggro deck instead.

So now that we're down to only 3 archetypes, can we finally unrestrict Brainstorm, Thirst for Knowledge, and Ponder please?

Why 4x Flusterstorm as opposed to a more general counterspell?  Seems like a fairly key design choice since it's 4 dead cards every game 1 versus Shops and Dredge, yet it wasn't really explained in the article.  This isn't to say that I disagree with the choice, I'm just curious as to your reasoning.

For some reason I was thinking of Gemstone Mine even while typing Gemstone Caverns.  Disregard my stupid.