Indeed, keeping up with the opponent on a 1-for-1 basis (1 LD spell per land destroyed) is not getting this deck anywhere. Plus the considerable mana cost (at least for Sinkhole, at least 3 mana for others) and slow speed (sorcery) of LD spells will  probably turn a LD deck into a case of "to little, to late". The Crucible of Worlds-Strip Mine-Wasteland combo is much more effective, especially in combination with fastbond.

A faster way to thwart my opponent's strategy is using lots of other black disruption spells (Hymn to Tourach, Duress, etc.). I've found a decklist for a mono black control deck (much like the decklist posted by AbdullahTheButcher) which does exactly that (also combined with the CoW-SM-WL combo), so I think I'll use that as a starting point. And even though my signature states is my colour, I've always had a weak spot for , I hope the aforementioned deck will suit my playing style.

Thanks for all your feedback and insights, I think I became a little more up-to-date with the current Vintage environment thanks to it.

Thanks for your comments.

Indeed, I overlooked Tarmogoyf as a creature when turning to green. Howver, I'm not entirely sure if it would be the best creature in this deck. Negator and Demigod always have a toughness of at least 4, meaning they're out of range of most direct damage spells.

With regard to switching to other colour combinations:

  : Fixes the current lack of card drawing ability. The addition of counters is also an advantage, but I think too much land destruction and damage dealing options will be lost.

  : Strongest combination of damage dealing and land destruction, but lacks card drawing options.

  : Fastbond, Crop rotation, Tarmogoyf and lots of other playable cards. However, still no fix for the card drawing.

All in all I've figured land destruction may not be the way to go. As mentioned by Soultaker this deck will probably have to little edge against most decks out there. It's rogue factor may hamper some decks, but that won't be enough. I think I'll focus my efforts on another deck design (until I get a revolutionary insight to help this deck) and let this one rest for now. I'm also new to Vintage, so I'll go read up on current events first and see whatever type of deck suits my playing style. Once again, thanks for all your feedback.

Thanks for all your feedback, this is more than what I've hoped for (shame on me)! Too bad all your ideas can't be put into one and the same deck.

The Crucible of Worlds-Wasteland-Strip Mine engine (possibly combined with Fastbond) sounds really good, especially since a lot of Vintage decks rely heavily on non-basic lands. This would mean I should add green instead of red to the deck. I have 4 spare Icestorms for land destruction and could add Root Maze and Crop Rotation. The only problem with switching to green might be the damage dealing abilities of the deck: I like the backup of Beacon of Destruction and the suggested Demigod of Revenge. I could add Berserk for the final blow, but I don't see too much other possibilities. Advantages of green may also come in the form of Life from the Loam and Regrowth.

So should I replace red with green or splash green? I have the appropriate dual lands and all the green spells mentioned have just one green mana in their casting cost, but I don't want to be to dependent on non-basic lands myself.

Though I like Raze (thanks for the hint, forgot that one myself), I'm not entirely sure of it's effectiveness in this deck, since I need quite some mana myself to keep the deck and damage going.

Howling Mine-Winter Orb-Relic Barrier is a nice combo (wasn't that played in 1994/1995 in the Titania's Song-Balance deck? So broken ), but I think it's too much of a hassle to set up next to the land destruction and damage dealing. Maybe I'll add Wheel of Fortune after all. Let's see:

#------------------------------#

// Mana Sources

Black Lotus
Sol Ring
Mox Emerald
Mox Jet
Mox Ruby
Badlands 4x
Wasteland 4x
Bayou 3x
Taiga 3x
Strip Mine

20 mana sources

// Land destruction

Sinkhole 4x
Ice Storm 4x
Stone Rain 3x

11 Land destruction spells

// Creatures spells

Demigod of Revenger 4x
Gorilla Shaman

5 Creature spells

// Other spells

Demonic Tutor
Fastbond
Regrowth
Berserk
Crop Rotation
Wheel of Fortune
Crucible of Worlds 2x
Terminate 2x
Beacon of Destruction 4x
Hymn to Tourch 4x
Browbeat 2x
Dark Ritual 4x

24 other spells

Total of 60 cards

#------------------------------#

Looking at this decklist, I'm not sure whether Demigod of Revenge will be an improvement over Phyrexian Negator. It becomes more clear however that the deck will only be viable in a more casual environment.

Would it be possible to construct a competitive black / red land destruction deck in Vintage? The main idea would be to disrupt the opponent's mana resources by either destroying lands in play or forcing him/her to discard lands. Victory would be achieved by dealing a total of 20+ damage through creatures / spells. Based on these specifications, I came up with the following decklist:

#------------------------------#

// Mana Sources

Black Lotus
Sol Ring - Need all the (fast) mana I can get, same goes for Mox Emerald / Pearl / Sapphire
Mox Emerald
Mox Jet
Mox Pearl
Mox Ruby
Mox Sapphire
Badlands 4x
Sulphurous Springs 4x
Mountains 2x
Swamp 2x
Strip Mine

20 mana sources

// Land destruction

Sinkhole 4x - Only 2 mana
Rain of Tears 4x - More mana-expensive version of Sinkhole
Stone rain 4x - Only one coloured (red) mana needed
Pillage 4x - Two coloured (red) mana in the casting cost, can take care of Crucible of Worlds and Moxes as well (no need for Shatter or Gorilla Shaman)

16 Land destruction spells

// Creatures spells

Phyrexian Negator 4x - Cheap, what are the chances of getting damage?

4 Creature spells

// Other spells

Demonic Tutor
Terminate 3x - Better than Terror IMHO, can deal with the likes of Dark Confidant, Painter's Servant and Phyrexian Dreadnought
Beacon of Destruction 4x - Cheaper than Fireball with x=5, goes back to library after being cast
Hymn to Tourch 4 x - Additional disruption, let's opponent discard land cards (compared to Duress / Thoughtseize)
Browbeat 2 x - Either card advantage or damage
Simian Spirit Guide 2 x - Mana acceleration, may also be involved in damage dealing
Dark Ritual 4 x - Mana acceleration

20 other spells

Total of 60 cards

#------------------------------#

So, this is just a very crude idea of what I'm looking for. It leaves me with a lot of questions:

1) How to optimize the manabase? A lot of spells require either two red or two black mana and I'm not sure the current mana sources could handle that. I could make the deck more "black" by relying on cards like Choking Sands and Icequake.

2) Are there enough land destruction possibilities in this deck? Should I add Wasteland?

3) How to improve card drawing? Adding Wheel of Fortune is not the right option, I guess. Browbeat may show some promise, but it gives the opponent a choice and can frustrate my strategy. Should I splash blue (don't think so, personally)? Necropotence (3 black mana casting cost), Yawgmoth's Bargain and Necrologia are all to expensive or impractical. Same goes for Infernal Contract. The latter and Necropotence may be used when turning to a more black-oriented deck.

4) What cards did I overlook or should definitely be in the deck? I have some ideas myself:

Black Vise - Cheap, when opponent has not enough mana to cast spells, this card will help tremendously with the damage
Molten Rain / Choking Sands - Helps against decks relying heavily on non-basic lands
Tormod's Crypt - General GY hate, also helpful against Crucible of Words, Timetwister, Life from the Loam, Bazaar
Yawgmoth's Will - For recasting all those great spells
Juggernaut - Almost as cheap to cast as Negator, but without the "risky" disadvantage
Pithing Needle - General disruption
Gorilla Shaman - Instead of Pillage?
Infernal Contract - Cards drawn can be cast the same turn (compared to Necroptence / Necrologia), this is a big advantage considering most of the spells are sorceries

All feedback on decklist, deckdesign, manabase, sideboard etc. is more than welcome.  Looking forward to hear from you.

Hi all,

My name is Piet (pronounced as Pete) and I hail from Nijmegen, The Netherlands. I started playing back in 1997, around the time Weatherlight hit the shops. My first starter deck (4th edition) contained a Shivan Dragon and a Serra Angel, both of which I traded for far too many useless Craw Wurms and Scaled Wurms (I realized 3 months later) . Played a lot of local (unsanctioned) T1.5 tournaments back in the day and even managed to win some using Counter-Sliver.

I love the look and feel of the really "old" Magic cards, such as the ones inluded in the PC game "Shandalar". I think 99% of the cards I own are from the Urza Block or earlier, I took a long break (in buying new cards) after Urza's Destiny (but don't worry, I know what a Tarmogoyf is  ). Over the years my interest in MtG has had its ups and downs, but at the moment I'm looking forward to playing some Vintage tournaments for which I'll be doing some background research on this site, amongst others.

See you around!