I want to apologize to everyone who has been posting. I was misunderstanding what some of you were saying and I seem to be antagonizing everyone another poster has informed me. I understand what you mean about not being cards that win on turn one. Necropotence can never win on turn one. I understand. I was playing it as back up. And yes Chalice, duress, and force hurt. I have not been trying to be passive agressive. Sorry. This was just a test deck. I had really good goldfish results and if you go first a lot of times its like goldfishing. I just wanted suggestions on how to improve it but it seems that is impossible? Like I said before I apologize to anyone I have antagonized. Thanks for your post. I have been testing out bargain over necro. But I have pretty much decided to scrap the deck unless someone else figures out something amazing or something new is printed.

There is a portal card that is called omen that I am testing in general. It is a two casting cost ponder!! It seems really good with a deck based around top, which is better when you shuffle stuff away!!

I have a deck similar to this for legacy. What about playing a genisis? He lets you continually bring back Macabre if need be?

What about playing Jailer instead of Mishra's factory? It would be a tutorable answer for dredge? How important are the mishras?

I posted above that there was a lions eye diamond in the deck but I meant in place of regrowth not channel. Sorry. I have had to mulligan before but never as much as the guy above states? Wow. I would love to add a bargain but dont know how to fit it. I would definitely love to hear what the guy who tested my deck on workstation thinks of how to add bargain or sideboard appropriately. My friend just started playing this and has fell in love with it. He is working on a version with more disruption. He has been trying Land grant to make it fewer lands and more like belcher but when we playtested it It did not seem anywhere near as consistent or good as this version. I have playtested this at least 4 or 5 hundred times and with and without a board. I have never had to mulligan as much as the above poster says? Either I have miswritten my list or workstation is not shuffling well maybe I am unsure? Many people have played my deck and those statistic dont even seem close? Like I said maybe its my fault I will have to check my current list card for card and repost. Thank you for you input. Here is the current sideboard but it seems to slow the deck down which I dont like. Maybe I am boarding wrong or something? Anyways:

4 Orims chant
3 Xantic Swarm
4 Hurykles Recall
4 Chain of Vapor

Thank you for your imput and even for your critisms.

P.S. Brian Demars You crack me up!!

Lemnear, wow your super arrogant. I would take that bet as I have also played storm decks since their inception. I have been playing since 1994. I believe I know a little about magic. Everyone who has actually sat across from me and watched me play this or has played it themselves once they figured out how it worked was like wow this is amazing. I just wish I could figure out how to get past force of will everygame because this would be the best deck in the format. for example my friend andy said basicly the same type of stuff you are saying, until he played it and now he has pretty much been working non stop on how to improve it he likes it so much. Possible board cards include normal cards for this type of deck. xantic swarm, orims chant, duress. Just because you dont know me or my name, dont assume I am bad. I try to be innovative. I thought up this list put it together and tweaked it till it stopped winning on turn three and started winning on turn one!! If you have play tested it over and over and you get differnt results then me please feel free to discuss those but I am betting you havent even touched this deck but will continue to talk about why its bad because its not the normal grim long or something similar.

I know lat nam legacy does that I just use the thirst to get rid of the extra copies and oath. This usually hits the gaeas so it doesnt matter, even with one tidespout in play I can normally win. Plus with legacy although less probable you could draw the tidespout again.

First of all thank you Harlequin. I did not know some of the things you posted about I really appreciate you taking time to explain to me. I believe I can more sufficiently post now. Also I wanted to answer Gunslingers comment with I have tried plannings and I didnt like it, it didnt seem to do what I wanted it to in the deck but maybe with a different build it might work but not in this one. And Portent does not draw a card immediately!! That is terrible for me. Impulse I tried out but it didnt seem as good as Omen. The ability to keep the cards if they are really good was outwieghing the seeing one more card ability of impulse.

Are you talking about Jessy Spirits's deck  that owne played when you say painter or another painter deck that Owen played? And yes that is what I was refering to by hiding the card of the three you want to keep or two in a row for say thirst for knowledge from off the top. I have only playtested 10 games each with the deck. I say that at the begining of my post. And I apologize for double posting I didnt know I could respond like that.

Why was this moved?

Also although impulse digs one deeper, if you draw the stains with impulse your just screwed but if you used omen then you can at least shuffle and hope to draw something. I have been trying to think if it would be better as impulse but each time it seems better as omen, except maybe one game. Its really good for setting up plays on turn one or turn two and not getting duress, thoughtseized, etc.





P.S. Dance your cares away!!!

I thought about that for quite a while actually because impulse is actually one of my favorite cards. Omen only digs three but you can keep all three if you like them or shuffle. This is better because if the cards are gas you keep them and if not you trash them and there is alot of draw to dig into better stuff. You only get one card with Impulse no matter what and the others go to the bottom but you can get all three to fix problems in say your mana base or drawing into an oath or getting a force or hidding the card you really want then drawing it next turn.
Thanks for the questions.




P.S. Dance your cares away!! Clap Clap.

I think adding a ruby, emerald, pearl, Black lotus would not hurt even with null rod similar to fish. This would speed it up. I know you didnt have extra power but for proxy 10 or if you picked some up this weekend

I was refering to augury adept as the backwards confidant in case that wasnt clear.





P.S. Dance your cares away!! Clap Clap

I would just play Matt Endresses deck it is updated. He crushed me playing back to basic this weekend at worlds and had just enough white to plow first game and control magic second game. The backwards confidant was nuts in some of his other games too. I have a similar build but I think his list is top notch.

P.S. Matt is a totally hilarious guy.


P.P.S. Dance your cares away!!

I was thinking about making a wall collage with some art I really like. The card was omen, but I couldnt find enough at one time to buy so I was talking to Chris Wolbereck at Starcity because they had a large number of them. He was really cool and had made a table he told me about. When I tell him what card I want to use he says oh the ponder like card? Later I started thinking," Wow this is ponder for one more!!!" So most of the day I have been testing it out!! It seem really really good in oath.

Here is a list and the results I had out of ten game with most of the major decks.

4 Forbiden Orchard
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Tidespout Tirant
1 Merchant scroll
1 Brain freeze
1 Demonic tutor
1 Vampiric tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Timewalk
1 Mystical tutor
1 Ponder
4 Oath of druids
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Force of wills
1 Yagmoths will
1 Black Lotus
5 Mox
1 Mana Crypt
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Omen
1 Misdirection
1 Gaea’s Blessing
1 Senseis Diving top
4 Mana Drains
1 Echoing truth

My result out of 10 games against each came out to the following but I am unsure if my playtest partner was playing new slaver correctly and no sideboarding was involved as I am testing it.

Stacks: 8 out of 10 games oath crushed it. Only if it resolve enough early threats to keep an oath off the board did stacks win and both games involved a chalice for two.

Pitch Long: 5 games out of 10. The omens really helped in this matchup because when on the play they pushed you into counters or oaths if you didnt have them already and helped give you better draws overall.

Aggro workshop: 9 out of 10 games. The omens helped dig and were cheaper then the thirst if you were not at enough mana. And it helped filter into land and oaths.

Dredge: 1 out of 10. I believe this matchup will get better after sideboard or maybe adding wastelands. Searching for echoing truth helped and omen helped search for cards and lands if a chalice for 0 was in play but it was usually too late.

Control Slaver: 7 out of 10. Although as I said my playtest partner may have been playing this incorrectly. Brian Demars is kinda like superman so I dont know. The omens help fix your bad draws then the thirst become amazing!! Putting you into either gas or something you need at the time.

Painter Control: 8 out of 10 games. The games that he won were on the back of a pyroblasted oath and tyrant and tormods crypting after gaeas trigger on stack.

I really think Omen is pretty amazing and should be tested more. It is really cheap right now. A set is like $1 right now.

When I have finished testing an adequate board I will test further results. I think there is probably a way to build a new ponder long also with Omen and I will be testing it in that also. Thanks for any comments or even critisisms.

Seems like you could drop the two smokestacks for two more vices since you lock the board with orb of dreams, chalices, and spheres and You could possibly play multiple vices on turn one? I tested a deck similar to this but did not play all the same cards so I am not sure how good that would be?

Very interesting. Do you know how this test yet?

This looks alot like aggro workshop. I would definitely add more crypts to your board or something for Ichorid. Playing nine spheres is helpfull agaisnt decks that cast spells. I would board pithing needle also.

I just noticed I dont have Lions eye diamond in my list, sorry, its suppose to be where the channel is. Also I just noticed that Owen turtlewald played a similar list with no disruption at the ICBM tournament.

I love demonic consultation but I dont see a vampiric tutor or imperial seal? Have you tested those yet? Or Sensei's divining top? And is quorion dryad playable in it too? Let me know. I like nether void alot too and I havent taken mine out in a while!!

I am not claiming anything. I was just putting it out there. I not much of a liar so I am not going to tell you my stacks matchup is 50/50 or something. The deck wins or loses based on who gets to go first. And if there is a force involved, althought sometimes I win anyways. I have not played this at a tournament because I playtested for quite a while and was losing to a single force!! I just wanted someone to help me figure out a little bit better list. That is why I suggested orims chants and hurykll's recall could be great too. Right now I cant fit that stuff without messing up the consistency. Belcher is similar in that it mostly wins or loses based on winning on turn one and two but nobody is saying wow belcher is not playable? I know it has welder so it has an alternate but it is affected by pretty much the same cards. I wouldnt play belcher in a tournament right now either. If you playtest my deck and figure out how to fix it let me know!! I can take critism but this is a test deck Im working on. If you want figures here:

I go first:
Belcher- I win
Control slaver w/ force- I lose
Control slaver w/o force- I usually win because of all the extra cards I will draw even if they draw a force later.
Stax- I win
Oath- Same as control slaver
Bomberman- same as above
Fish- No force I win

I go second:
If Belcher resolves and kills me I lose, If empty the warrens I win
Control slaver w/ force or able to play mana drain- I likely lose
Control slaver w/out force or able to play mana drain I win
Stax- Depends on what hits play- Trinisphere=I lose, Sphere is winnable depending on hand and draw, Chalice for 0, 1, 2 all are good. Sphere and Chalice= I lose
Oath same as control slaver
Fish- No force I win most of the time unless there is a daze that stop an important spell or null rod

If you just want to insult me and tell me my deck is bad please dont reply. I already know what it loses to. I am trying to fix it. If you figure that out, please let me know. Or if you have tested it 10 or more times and think its the worst thing ever. Then feel free to ask me about certain card choices or why this over another thing or why its not working for you. I had to explain several times to friends how to win with it.
P.S. Long looked like a pile of bad cards too, as did draw7 deck. (Please dont say this is no long, I know!! ) Thanks for looking and replying!!

I think dimir cutpurse is really good unless there are a lot of fish decks. If so then it gets considerably weaker. It depends on how the new metagame turns out to how good he will be. I have always been a fan of keeper style decks but I really think Control slaver is the new keeper.

Wow!! You know what is really useful before commenting on something that you have never played?!!! Um... Playing it. Then understanding that there are intricacies that you dont see from looking at it. Helm of awakening makes the whole deck tick. I am a first time poster and I appreciate at least that you replied as no one else did, but at least proxy it up on workstation or real life and see how many times you win on turn one. And see how bad thorn or sphere hurt really bad since helm decreases the cost each time you play one. I have tested this deck quite a bit and like belcher it wins on turn one a lot of the time. I am not going to claim a number b/c I am not sure what it is. But I will play you for money against belcher if I always get to go first b/c my deck wins that often on first turn.  

This is kinda off the type 4 subject but in your article you didnt mention Thrasher? You dont think it is a possible playable in vintage? It only required one blue and two colorless!! Then everything you payed to play it untaps the next turn and it becomes at least a 4/4. That seems playable with all the mana acceleration and mana drains running around right?

I have seen this deck on workstation a lot lately and it seems to win through hate a lot of the time!! Fish playing stifle gives it a hard time.

Please let me know what you think after you have had time to play test this.  Thanks. If I get enough comments on this I might add one of the decks I may actually play. I like the consistency of turn one kills but not the lack of disruption I have. 

Mystic Remora!!
Regrowth
Fire and Ice
Demonic Consultation

I have been working on a better turn one kill. This deck is pretty good at winning on turn one but has no disruption or counter backup and can just scoop to force of will. I am thinking of sideboarding Orims chants to fix the problem but I have been very busy lately. Here it is anyways. I have some other list for different new decks but I am testing them for Chicago. I have decided against playing this unless someone can tell me how to fix it. Otherwise it seems worse than grim long, but with just as many or more turn one wins consistently.

The gist of the deck is to ritual out or cast a helm of awakening leaving a black floating to cast more rituals since cabal ritual also cost one black then. Then play all the one drops for free and manamorphisis gets you extra mana, your colors you need, and a card. Then play a draw spell. Then keep doing it till you tendrils for the win. I am also looking for vintage team to join or start. While I do not get a lot of time to travel up north to play in a lot of vintage, I keep up with the format,I enjoy playtesting, dont mind playing the same deck over and over or switching out to figure out the weaknesses. I have a lot of new ideas and tweaks, and vintage rating is pretty decent. This is something I am very unlikely to play or I would not have posted it. I have at least 3 other new decks I am testing also. (over 1850) (If that is important, since most tournaments are proxy?) I also own alot of extra vintage playables that could be shared if needed. (2 sets of workshops, 2 sets of Bazaars, etc.) I hate playing on workstation with just random people so even if your not a team but just need a play test partner who doesnt totally suck let me know in a post or something?

4 city of brass
4 Gemstone mine
1 Glimervoid
1 Tolarian academy

2 Elvish Spirit Guide

1 Sensei's Divining top
4 Manamorphose
1 Crop Rotation
1 Yawgmoth's will
1 Memory Jar
1 Brainstorm
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Demonic tutor
1 Vampiric tutor
1 Mystical tutor
1 Regrowth
1 Channel
1 Necropotence
2 Tendrils of agony
1 lotus petal
4 Helm of awakening
1 Chromatic sphere
4 Chromatic star
1 Wheel of fortune
1 Windfall
4 Darkrituals
3 Cabal Rituals
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Black lotus
5 Moxes
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Ancestral Recall