All the Italian Vintage Community is now aware of this horrible thing.

We'll watch over the Internet and in the selling lists for cards like the ones of Jacob and Roland.

Stealing cards to a player is the most disgusting and vile action another player can do. We hope Roland and Jacob con find the strength to pass through this day.

All Italian Vintage players are with you.


The Staff of TheAbyss.biz and the Italian Vintage Community

Sol Ring
Black Lotus
and Moxen
 

rebuild is much better than hurkyl's recall.
so you can bounch your permanents as well and improve your 10-spell-count.
really worth a try!

Now I say what I think:
 1. Unpowered decks can only be aggro decks
 2. there's no way for an unpowered aggro deck to beat hulk smash or keeper
 3. TnT and Madness are the only two aggro deck that can try to beat a blue based control deck.

But at a price: that you can cast threats fast (like negator was for suicide black) and for that purpose you must run your engine in 4x. So 4xWorkshop and 4xBazaar.

Restrict Workshop and Bazaar (are already on DCI watch list): you kill madness and you cant really play TnT with ancient tombs and city of traitors only.

So you kill those deck. Now what?
Can you beat more than 50% times a keeper with a sligh? or with a zoo?
No.
You must become a hulk smash or keeper or whatever control player.

Back in the years I played SuiBlack, Zoo, 8land-Stompy, Sligh cause I love aggro mode. And losed.
Then TnT arised.
I started play TnT and started to win?
No.
Look at the stats: here in Italy we have T1 tourneys of 130+ players, more than 60% of them powered every tourney, every week and did you see TnT or Madness win? Or finishing 2nd? No.

If you want to play aggro, even powered, even workshop/bazaar, it's difficult to win.
And then what? All the Magic community shouts to restrict workshops...

Then, why not restrict FoW? or ban dragon?
So unpowered players can start to win tourneys and you can easily restrict dark ritual...

Back in 1994 there was only 1 Type, and was T1.
Then wizards invented T2 to avoid power shortage problems, and we are here to discuss to become all EXT/T2 players for the sake of T1?
To discuss how to stop decks that doesnt win to make place to other decks that cant win?

I think that's not the way.
The answer is in people, and in our community that thinks all the day a way to make better decks.
I think we will see later this year a Modular/Affinity T1 deck make some top8 around the world.

Like Darth Wader once said: "Dont underestimate their chances"

Hi, I'm italian like you but missed Milan last week.
I play TnT and like you I think that's the funniest deck for an aggro player to play.

My actual build is similar to yours:

mana:
4 fetches
2 forest
2 mountain
4 taiga
4 Mishra's workshop
7 SoLoMoxen
3 wasteland
1 stripmine
1 grim monolith
--
28

you can notice that I play 1 mountain more (and a taiga for a forest) but I actually play 4 pillars.
Now I use 3 wastes but can test the 4th.
I use the monolith to avoid su-chi mana burst and to cast ws+monolith=4cc fat 1st turn.

best creatures:
4 juggernaut
4 su-chi
2 triskelion
1 karn
2 solemn simulacrum
1 platinum angel
--
14

I agree with the 2nd trisk: welding in and out  is great for direct damage even for madness and gay/r and you can suicide it before artifact mutation or mindslaver.
Here in Turin where I live lots of people says me that simulacrum is bad: I think an early simulacrum can change the odds adding 1 permanent for smokestack or let you fix your mana (with un-wastable lands) and you can easily block whatever creature to draw.
But in mid and late game I hope not to draw it cause I use 4 basic lands and more than often I have already all of them in play.

what's left:
4 SotF
1 Squee
1 Anger
4 Welders

4 pyrostatic pillar
3 sylvan library
1 quirion ranger
--
18

Now you can notice I use 3 Sylvan: I played with 1, then 2, now 3. I really think it can change the game with all the in-game shuffling TnT can give you. And is a spell that your opponent wish to counter and let you sneak something after.
I use the ranger but I'm testing it: a lot of american players put ranger on the must-play list so I give it a chance. Ok, it's useful to untap welder or to gain 1 mana if you suffer of mana shortage and is a 1cc spell that can smooth the mana curve.
(and can untap phyrexian colossus!)

Now about the post:
I've posted yesterday a post on Yann Levet's monobrown deck where I support 3sphere for a good control card. And I think it.
3sphere is pure control: you have early mana and your opponent doesnt.
But our deck is about doing damage to the opponent.
I've noticed that control players (smash/keeper and blue based) really get scared of pillar and that can give you a valuable psychological advantage. No matter that a walk or ancestral or balance can worth 2 damage, but brainstorm? duress? impulse/intuition? 1st AK? Most control decks (and combo) are based on low-cc spells and you put a clock of 10 of them.
In a pillar game vs. control you can play welders or SotF and take your damage, you are not the one that must be beaten to death: when a control player takes control can easily kill you with a 1 or 2 turn blow. But the control player must keep himself alive for longest time possible (How many turns can Benga keep himself alive at 1 life?) and pillar is a serious threat.
3sphere can really slow down every opponent (better non-workshop opponent) but an post-sideboarding chalice for 1 can really wreck zoo, stompy, sligh, and a chalice for 1 or 2 can seriosly damage a gay/r or madness player.

I think 3sphere worth a try, keeping in mind that in a deck that I want to keep really aggro, I cant afford more than 4 MD slots for control purposes: playing with 4 pillars AND 3 blood moons is too control-ish for me...

Let discuss more about this deck!

This is the deck I'm testing at the moment:

Mana:
7 SoLoMoxen
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt

4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Wasteland
1 City of Traitors
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine

4 Metalworker
--
31

Creatures:
4 Juggernauth
4 Triskelion
2 Arcbound Crusher
2 Arcbound Ravager
1 Platinum Angel
--
13

Equipment:
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Sword of FIre and Ice
--
4

Lock control:
4 Trinisphere
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Chalice of the Void
--
12

Ok, It seems pretty strange and un-professional.
It's no stacker, uses equipment and hyped arcbounds.
At first glance it can seems like some strange attempt to mess new T2 creatures and equipment in a T1 deck.
I've played TnT for years then Lock&Stock/Prison with Smokestack and Tangle Wire but I ever wondered if there can be an aggro deck that uses the incredible power of metalworkers.

This deck, that in a similar shape was first used here in Italy by french player Yann Levet, placed 2nd over 130 players in Massa 03/21/2004, 2nd in Milan 02/29 over 134 players and 5th in Turin 02/15 over 74 players.
(you can see metagame analysis and deck breakdown of such events in http://www.theabyss.biz)

Looking at the list you can say there's a lot of fast mana: 10 land give 2 or more mana, and you have artifacts and metalworkers.
You have to reach 3 mana to play 3sphere, but 3 mana had to be reached anyway to play this deck.
You can count on a exceptional amount of mana in firsts turns.

So factories and metalworkers needs no explanation.

So is for juggernaut and the angel.

Now about the news:
4 triskelion is a dream for almost all workshop players: they're 4/4 with direct damage.
Arcbound ravager, greatly hyped in T2, can be a real finisher in this deck with triskelion. And you can get rid of crypt damage and unwant spheres and 3speheres.
Arcbound crusher: is a 4cc 1/1 and thats bad, but growing ability and trample can represent a real threat in most of cases. And it grows even when your opponent plays artifats.

Equipment: in a T1 deck all the cards must be useful (better broken) and I know that equipment can be a dead card sometimes. But:
Lightning greaves: its equip cost of 0 lets you give haste to every new creature that hits play AND you can protect every key creature like metalworkers in early game or crushers/juggernaut in mid game.
Sword of fire and ice: that's the BOMB.
+2/+2 and that's great
protection from blue AND from red: so stops fire/ice red burn spells, stifle and can block 'tog, every gay/r non-flying creature and a lot more.
when hits an opponent can do 2 damage to any target AND you draw a card.
And you have a trampler.
Assuming 1st turn workshop-mox juggernauth or crusher (or whatever) you can drop 2nd land on turn 2, cast sword with workshop and equip it with the other two mana, having a 7/5 or 4/4 protected with 2 direct damage on turn 2.
And it's not so strange to happen.

About the control:
You can always set chalice for 1 (you lose only the mana vault/sol ring).
You can set chalice for 0 if you are in 1st turn playing moxes or if you dont have any in hand.
Chalice for 2 (that you can play on turn 1) stops ravagers, greaves and spheres and it can be bad but playable.
Chalice for 3 can be played in mid/late game but stops metalworkers, 3sphere and sword and that's bad.
(but chalice for 1 and for 3 can stop keeper/hulksmash/combo pretty well).

But there's some problem:
-Equipped greaves sometimes stops your own combos (so Mr. Levet cut it away in his last tourney)
-You dont draw, and in T1 it's bad. But you gain a lot of tempo.
-You can add memory jar, but 1x in a deck that doesnt draw and with no fetches is pretty lost.
-You dont have so much SB options. Jester caps, Tormod's, Mind's eye, Geth's Grimoire (for madness!), Sundering titan, darksteel colossus but I have to think about it.
-You are extremely vulnerable to null rod and damping matrix, and you have no way to destroy artifacts (I have to think about it too, suggestions?).

What do you think about it?

So, that's my list:

4 Juggernaut
4 Su-Chi
2 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Triskelion

4 Goblin Welder
1 Karn
1 Anger
1 Platinum Angel
1 Squee

2 Sylvan Library
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Wheel of Fortune

4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
4 Mishra's Workshop
3 Wasteland
2 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Grim Monolith
1 Sol Ring
5 Moxen

but I want to test some changes:

-1 wheel of fortune
-1 windswept heath

+1 sylvan library OR +1 Quirion ranger
+1 duplicant

I've already played duplicant, and it's good. But against creature based deck, like madness or sligh, it's not so useful and your welder get bolted/incinerated/fireiced very fast so you have to hardcast it. Then it cant target keeper tokens and roar of the wurm. With smash you have to guess the good time.
I like to test Sentinel from Legends: it's 4cc and it's an awesome blocker (better than karn).

I dont think sylvan library can really slow you down: I want to quit using jar and wheel and I think library can fix my draws.

I played the ranger before packing the pillars and was cool with phirexian colossus. I think I cant start playing it again to protect green mana.

My SB is:
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Blood Moon
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Rack and Ruin
2 Artifact Mutation OR Naturalize

I've played TnT since 2002 and I think it cant flourish now: Stacker and/or prison are better at the moment.
But I still play TnT cause it's the funniest deck I ever played.
That's what I think:

I will add green mana instead of colorless: I will have 3 forests and 2 mountains (or 3-1, or 2-2) then 4 fetch, 4 taigas, 4 MW, 3 wastes and a strip: this will cut mana vault, a waste and (I know that's sad) the monolith.
With 7+4+mox green mana sources you could play easy the zealot.

I will kill enforcers: I've tested it (with 4x and 2x) and I think that 1st turn 7cc spell in hand is way too bad: you have to play it for 4 maybe in turn 3.

I play with 2 Solemn Simulacra and a masticore, and I'm happy expecially with Solemn Simulacrum: an early one can give you the un-wastable mana you need (but you must run basic lands) and can do nice tricks with welders.

I played genesis a lot but 3 no workshop mana during upkeep is too high to being playable.

I run wheel of fortune and not the jar but I will cut it: TnT is not based on card advantage but on tempo and you really dont need 7 cards in hand (in early game you have to play fats and SotF and you dont have 3mana to use, in mid game you dont want to fill your opponent hand with counters and instants and jar and wheel are great madness activators).

Instead I've added 2 silvan lybraries and maybe I will add the 3rd: looking at 3 cards with our deck I think is enough to topdeck something cool and with fetches/SotF and Solemn Simulacra you shuffle a lot.

In SB I will add 4 chalice of the void if pillars cant cope with your opponent and maybe blood moons.

That's what I think...  

speacking of something missing...

I run 3 MD Blood Moons with 4 Pillars. I agree that pillars are very useful, but MD Moons?
I run 2 trisk, 2 Simulacra, 4 Su-chi, 4 Juggernauth, 1 Platinum Angel, 1 Karn and 1 Masticore but I've had to kill shaman, quirion, phyr colossus, elvish lyrist (or elf replica now), sylvan library and used to play 6 fetch and now I use only 4.

I've used to play this version past sunday at an italian T1 league tourney and I'm no longer sure about MD Blood Moons.

Not every game you can start with 1st turn 4cc fatty, and you have to mulligan. You really cant start with 1st turn Moon and maybe so it is with 2nd turn.
Mostly of times your 1st fatty is forced/countered, you have to play the 2nd fast to apply pressure so you have to hardcast it, or play welder (if you have a mox in play) or play SotF (if you have a creature in hand).

With 4 pillars and 3 moons you have 7 more cards that cant be discarded via SotF (and so with wheel, artifact mana and lands).

With a fatty in play you have to take control, and so you can use pillars or moons. Then the 2R cc of moons can be 1 turn too high to be effective and maybe keeps you from playing another fatty or to build up your SotF combo (anger-squee).

Without moons I can add Sylvan Library (and that's good) and then quirion-colossus, 2 more fetches or quirion-shaman. And that smooths your mana curve adding 1cc and 2cc spell instead od 3cc spells.

Any ideas/suggestions?

Hi,
my name is Edoardo Conti, I'm from Torino, Italy.
I'm 28 and I have a bachelor in Chemical Engineering and I work for Government.

Played MTG from 1994 (1st Italian edition) and now I play T1 only.

I and my father own 1 ItlBB collection, 2 Arabian colections, 1 Antiquities and the from Ice Age to Mirage. Now we are working on an Unlimited collection too.

I play basketball, archery, alpine ski and I like photography.

I own 2 female cats: Mia and Bianca (white).

I play TnT and that's what I think:

1. I dont use blue, so I dont use wonder and I can fetch all my color lands with w_foothills. Using a tropical you cant retrieve it via simulacrum, and that's no good.

2. I put MD 4Xpillars, helps alot with blue based draw control, and rector.

3. I use 3XBlood Moon MD, very useful for most matchups, very useless for sui black, sligh and maybe parfait.

4. I use 1xmasticore, but I use 4xSu-chi. I like to add one 1st turn drop (mox-workshop or lotus).

5. I really like 2xtriskelion, in my meta where workshop based is going strong, I fear alot artifact mutation and trisk can avoid the risk.

6. I like Phyr colossus - quirion interaction, but I dont use it anymore.

7. You have to think about memory jar and wheel of fortune, I use the wheel like you, but I really dont know why.

8. I dont know if 4xCotV are better than 4xpillar and 3xBloodMoon, but worth a try.

9. about SB: I agree with Dante for all but bottle gnomes. In my meta there's no more illusion donate based combo, and dragon and tendril can easy bypass the gnomes.
My SB is:
4xartifact destruction
2xtormod's
3xREB
3xJester's Cap (still testing)
3xsphere of resistence (I use MD blood moons)

that's my opinion, anyway.

Workshop deck can go from totally aggro (TnT) to totally control (Lock&Stock or Welder MUD).

I experienced a lot of play with TnT and now I use either TnT or an aggro-control version of lock and stock.

Now I post three decks I like and I need your advice of which of these are the best.
I would like to say I'll not play the full control UR L&S, 'cause I'm an aggro player.

1st: Aggro-control L&S
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Mishra's Workshop
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
5 Mountain
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Grim Monolith
4 Juggernauth
2 Su-Chi
1 Triskelion
3 Metalworker
1 Platinum Angel
1 Karn, Silver Golem
4 Goblin Welder
1 Voltaic Key
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
1 Wheel Of Fortune
1 Memory Jar
SB:
3 Rack and Ruin
4 Blood Moon
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Masticore
4 Red Elemental Blast
1 Triskelion

This is the deck I play at the moment.

2nd: New TnT:
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
3 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Grim Monolith
4 Survival Of The Fittest
4 Goblin Welder
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Anger
4 Juggernaut
3 Su-Chi
1 Karn, Silver Golem
2 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Triskelion
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Duplicant
1 Platinium Angel
3 Blood Moon
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Wheel of Fortune
SB:
same as above, maybe some lock elements (spheres)

3rd: full colorless aggro-control
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Accademy
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
4 Metalworker
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Su-Chi
4 Juggernaut
1 Triskelion
1 Masticore
2 Karn, Silver Golem
2 Sculpting Steel
4 Tangle Wire
4 Smokestack
4 Sphere of Resistance
SB:
1 Masticore
1 Triskelion
3 Jester's Cap
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Ticking Gnomes
3 Damping Matrix

I like this deck. Great mana resilience. But can it resist without welders?

My metagame offers:
decree of justice keeper
hulk smash
UR gay
madness
UR lock and stock
dragon
some sligh, sui black, parfait

Give me your opinions!