Mental Misstep is obviously good enough to play in vintage.  If not now, maybe later.  So the real question is "Should I get 4 now or later?"

Being that they are an uncommon, and starcitygames has it on their front page at $4.99, I think the answer is obvious:

Who knows?

$5 bucks!!!  WTH?

Did paypal get your friend his money back and how long did it take?

And I noticed he didn't give negative feedback on the guy who took back the fakes.  I can maybe understand someone didn't know they were fake, but it really depends on how bad the fakes were.

What made him believe the cards were fake?  Just so the rest of us can look out for the signs.

Um....  I don't really have anything to do with anyone personally from the store, but I was just wondering what happened to it.  If the guy closed the store, anyone know what he did with the cards?  They had alot of pretty good stuff there.  If he closed the store, is he still selling just without a store?

Anyone know?  I just tried calling them and the number is disconnected.

No one really answered the question, so I'll try.  They just said it needs to be "sufficiently" shuffled.

What shuffling means to me, and I think to the DCI, is the same as in poker.  Which is that any two cards could be in any position after shuffling.  So if you weave your deck (let's say alphabetize) there is an equal chance the top card is a lotus as it is a time vault, and that the next card is a inkwell leviathan.  etc.

For 52 cards, that means 7 riffle shuffles and 1 cut.  Google "random shuffle cards".  There's a bunch of articles on it.
For what you call a gambler's shuffle, if I recall correctly, mean to get a true shuffle, you need something like 11,000 gambler's shuffles.  Not easy to do with DCI time limits.
BTW, pile shuffle does not equal riffle shuffle.  Pile shuffles are not random - unless you pile shuffle into random size piles and clump your cards (which sort of defeats the purpose).  Also, in my opinion, pile shuffling damages cards more than what someone else called a "smash" shuffle.  So the only logical reason to pile shuffle is to 1) stall 2) not randomize your cards but make it look like you are.

For 60 card decks, you'd probably have to riffle shuffle 9-10 times and do a cut.  And that is regardless how many pile "shuffles" or gambler's "shuffles" you do - because these do basically nothing.

BTW - i wonder where the term "gambler's" shuffle comes from.  Probably some poker cheat.

I'm trying to get into vintage, since I like playing with broken decks, and love combo decks.  Especially non-interactive 1st turn combos.

My local store is trying to put something together - she says that many people only want to play non-proxy.  There is ALOT to be said for non-proxy.  First, I can read the cards and look at them.  Second, real cards are real magic.  Fake cards are fake magic.  I don't like playing proxy type 2 decks, why would I like playing proxy type 1?

If people can't get into type 1 because of the cost, then the higher prize support for unpowered decks should help with that.  However, it is very hard to do that in a small tournament.  How do you boost prize support for 50% of the players when there are only 8 total players?

I think 5 proxy or 10 proxy might be the way to go then, rather than 15-25.  I hope my local store can get a 5-10 proxy going.

As a note, I'm seeing that - unfortunately - there is alot less brokenness in type 1 than I had hoped.  I'm thinking the format might actually support creatures!  For shame!

Also, making CE cards tournament legal is just another way of saying REPRINT.  NO TO REPRINTS.  Besides blessing cards that are essentially proxies, and also tanking the value of real magic cards, CE cards are not real magic cards.  They don't look the same.  What I mean is that the DCI should not bless proxies as tournament legal.  If they bless CE cards as tournament legal, why not bless counterfeit cards?  How about really good counterfeit cards?  How about if a card is a really nice proxy, it is tournament legal as well?

I've bought some expensive cards - no issue ....  I hope.  I don't really know the tests, use lupes, etc.  But I did bend the cards I got, did read the print quality on the back.  I got a mox ruby and a library of alexandria.  Both look good.  Quality of the cards was "good" (as in played quite a bit).

I think as long as you buy from good sellers, who have good pictures, you shouldn't have many problems.  It is hard to get to 50 positive feedback - with real items (not $1 junk).  As long as you buy from people with good seller feedback (ie, on good items), its not worth their rating to sell bad cards for $100-$200.  I also try to stay away from non dealer sellers who are selling alot of cards at once.

The biggest scam of course aren't fake cards, but rather, I would suspect there were some printed counterfeits (that would be a problem) and there are the CE cards being passed as betas, or just sneakily described to make them sound like betas.

But what are other people's experience.

Grand Prix LA is coming in January.  With it is a Vintage tournament.

Unfortunately, its no proxies.

Bigbarn,
What I mean by constructed bringing in more money is that without constructed play, players don't need cards, and if they don't need cards, they won't be buying singles nearly as much.  So to encourage single sales, stores need to hold constructed tournaments.

I agree that drafting is great - I draft 1-2 times a week.

I want to get into vintage because I've drafted alot, gotten alot of cards, and don't know what to do with them.  You can group them into 4x and sell them on ebay - I do that.  You can also trade for older stuff (since I can't keep up with the new stuff) - I do that too.  Older stuff holds value well, so you don't have situations where you take a break and lose alot of value on good cards because they rotated out (like my 3x vedalken shackles, which I didn't sell because I didn't have 4x).

But if you trade your draft rares for type 1 playables (but not the expensive ones), quickly you'll have a deck (assuming 15 proxies).  Assuming you are good at drafting and play for rares.  If not, then a bit longer.  But you will eventually.  And thats why I want to play type 1 - because I just don't have the time to keep up with card prices and want to play some constructed.  Plus I like playing with busted cards.  If I wanted to play with fair cards, I'd draft.

Cost of Vintage?  You guys who complain about cost have got to be kidding.  Assuming a 10 proxy tournaments, which means that the power 9 minus timetwister, gives you room for 2 more $100+ cards.

I calculate type 2 costs a hell of a lot more than Vintage.  After the 10 proxies, there are at most another 3 $100+ cards, and often no $100+ cards to get.  There may be a set of mana drains, then a bunch of cheaper cards.  To total cost I've added for my deck (still unfinished) is like $300 or so, which is mostly 2 drains and a time vault.  The rest will cost a fair amount, but if you plan on playing for awhile, its alot easier to get type 1 cards than type 2 cards, since type 2 cycles so fast.  When I was younger 2 years is a long time, but now, years go by very fast.  I blinked and I missed 2 sets.

The key part though is that the core of a type 1 deck doesn't change much, and the parts that you do need to add don't cost much.  Whereas Type 2 means buying another $300-400 card deck every 2 years (or trading for one, which takes time and still the money to get the trade stock).

So with 10 proxy tournaments (esp. with 15 proxy tournaments) the cost of type 1 is comparable.

The main problem is that there is no tournament scene.  And for kids to play, they will only play if they can use their current cards and trade for older cards.  But few people want to trade their type 1 playables for type 2 stuff.  So the kids play type 2, then extended, then legacy.

I suspect that kids will start playing type 1 - if stores want to push it.  And stores really should, because it constructed creates more money than drafts - no one buys singles for drafts.

Orange isn't close actually.  With traffic, it's 2 hours.
Anyone know a place in LA?  From Santa Monica/West LA to the Pasadena?

Because there are none within 100 miles - of Los Angeles.  Which is a pretty big city in the real world, but in magic, a backwater.

I'm looking to play type 1, and can't find any store that runs any small type 1 tournaments in the area - Los Angeles.

Anyone know where to play in the area?