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Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: [T4] Rise of the Eldrazi Spoiler Discuss
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on: March 23, 2010, 06:31:17 pm
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How's this for a ridiculous creature, lol...
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 15 Legendary Creature - Eldrazi Mythic Rare Legendary Creature - Eldrazi Emrakul, the Aeons Torn can't be countered. When you cast Emrakul, take an extra turn after this one. Flying, protection from colored spells, Annihilator 6 When Emrakul is put into a graveyard from anywhere, its owner shuffles his or her graveyard into his or her library. 15/15
Suck it Progenitus...this guy is unreal awesome...
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Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: [Type 4] Shards spoiler discussion
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on: September 17, 2008, 10:37:06 am
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Here are a few that didn't have names yet I saw that should be auto-includes I think:
White - 3(W) Instant Remove target attacking creature from the game. Cycling (W)(G)(B)5: Remove up to 2 attacking Creatures from the game.
Blue - 2(U) Instant Return target permanent to owners hand. Cycling (R)(G)(U)5: Return up to 2 permanents to owners hand.
The black one is discard 2 at random, the red is 6 damage to creature or player, and the green is +6/+6. I don't think those three will make it, though the red one is tempting....
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: Type 4 [Eventide]
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on: July 10, 2008, 04:47:44 am
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Now that the set is spoiled, my initial list of additions from the new set is:
Archon of Justice Hallowed Burial (maybe) Dream Fracture Glen Elendra Archmage Creakwood Ghoul Hateflayer (maybe) Thunderblust (maybe) Wicker-Bough Elder Unmake Dominus of Fealty Figure of Destiny (maybe)
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: [Type 4] Do you play with these cards?
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on: July 05, 2008, 07:36:03 pm
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We don't play with firebreathers or ACC around here either. Here on some quick thoughts regarding cards you mentioned:
-Glarecaster - We play him as he's pretty fair most of the time. He dies to all non-damage based removal, and very rarely is actually the basis for why someone won.
-Mist Dragon - We also play him as while he's near impossible to kill, he makes the person who controls him a target, is counterable, and honestly is only a 4/4 flyer. This means that although he's very hard to deal with, he can't get past a 5/5+ flyer on the other side, nor a Masticore effect on board (though it won't kill him, it will effectively neuter him).
-Door - I played with this card in the stack for a few years, but eventually came to the conclusion that it's no fun being the guy on the receiving end of this. Obviously it's very vulnerable to removal when it's tapped, but requiring the inclusion of Stifle effects just for this card doesn't seem like a fair trade off. Every one of those effects other than Trickbind just felt weak in comparison to the other cards in the stack, so cutting those and this card just made sense.
-Djinn - Never played it, never intend to. Seems absurd
-Blast From the Past - Lasted exactly one night. Two damage+draw a card+make a token with buyback is beyond insane. You can argue that it can be countered like most cards, but I don't honestly see the point including cards like this and Spell Burst as they're ridiculous and not fun for anyone else. Being instants also makes them much harder to counter.
-Tower of Fortunes - Had it in for a few months, but it was too powerful and thus removed.
-Homura - Had it in for a few months, wasn't a fan, was removed.
-Chorus of the Conclave - Never tried it, and likely never will
-Greater Morphling - We had him in for a bit before we realized he went infinite with another dude on board, so he was removed immediately. We don't errata, and even without it he's still the 18 power hasted attacker that's very difficult to remove.
-Richard Garfield - Was never very impressive without errata. Was removed for lack of power.
-Tutors - I have Gifts and Tooth still in as they're solid and you just need to give the person searching a time limit (30 seconds to 1 minute). I don't run Intuition anymore as it's strictly worse than Gifts 99% of the time in this format, and Survival wasn't actually that amazing for me (and the aforementioned long search times most applied to this card).
-Random cards - Whispers of the Muse has been fair for us (much better than Blast from the Past in a balanced stack). Urza's Rage feels like a more fair (and fun) Door to Nothingness. Sway never really did much for anybody around here and got cut over time (same thing for Once More with Feeling).
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: Type 4 [Eventide]
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on: July 04, 2008, 09:52:46 pm
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I like Dream Fracture a lot honestly. I don't play Arcane Denial or Vex, but this is more in line with Remand than either of those.
Other than that, I haven't seen anything recent besides the already mentioned RU Avatar that really catches my interest for Type 4.
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Type 4 [Eventide]
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on: July 01, 2008, 06:05:27 am
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It's that time again.....to discuss additions to Type 4 from the newest set: Archon of Justice 3ww Creature - Archon Rare Flying When Archon of Justice is put into a graveyard from play, remove target permanent from the game. 4/4 This guy seems solid, but I'm not sure he's at the power level necessary to see play currently in Type 4. Creakwood Ghoul 4b Creature- Plant Zombie Uncommon {bg}{bg}:Remove target card in a graveyard from the game.You gain 1 life #34/180 3/3 This guy on the other hand, seems awesome. Much better than Withered Wretch, but not as broken as Nezumi Graverobber.
Hateflayer 5rr Creature - Elemental Rare Wither 2{R},  : Hateflayer deals damage equal to its power to target creature or player. Illus. Thomas M. Baxa #55/180 5/5 This guy seems kinda, meh, but he does effectively swing for 10 each turn, with 5 of it targeted anywhere you want and at instant speed.
Thunderblust 2rrr Creature - Elemental Rare Haste Thunderblust has trample as long as it has a -1/-1 counter on it. Persist (When this creature is put into a graveyard from play, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to play under its owner's control with a -1/-1 counter on it.) Illus. Dan Scott 7/2 Normally I don't really like haste creatures without evasion (I play Rorix but not Ashen Monstrosity/Stalking Vengence), but the built-in protection does have me wanting to test it (I do run Eron the Relentless, and this creatures seems similar).
Wicker-bough Elder 3g Creature - Treefolk Shaman Common Wicker-Bough Elder comes into play with a -1/-1 counter on it.  , Remove a -1/-1 counter from Wicker-bough Elder : Destroy target artifact or enchantment. "Living Scarecrows make a mockery of the living order. Dead ones make fine hats." #80/180 4/4 I run (and like) Indrik Stomphowler, and this creature seems better most of the time, as the ability can be done at Instant speed.
Unmake {wb}{wb}{wb} Instant Common Remove target creature from the game. A gwyllion's favorite trap is the vanity mirror. A bewitched piece of glass traps the looker's soul and does away with the body. Illus. Stephen Belledin #96/180 This will be an obvious auto-include. It's amazing removal that everyone should be playing. Mirror Sheen 1{ur}{ur} Enchantment Rare 1{ur}{ur}: Copy target instant or sorcery spell that targets you. You may choose new targets for the copy. Illus. John Avon #105/180 This is a card I won't run because it's broken, but some of you seem to like cards like this (I'll play Urza's Rage targeting myself....Kill everyone!). Figure of Destiny {wr} Creature - Kithkin Rare {rw}: Figure of Destiny becomes a 2/2 Kithkin Spirit. {rw}{rw}{rw}: If Figure of Destiny is a Spirit, it becomes a 4/4 Kithkin Spirit Warrior. {rw}{rw}{rw}{rw}{rw}{rw}: If Figure of Destiny is a Warrior, it becomes an 8/8 Kithkin Spirit Warrior Avatar with flying and first strike. #139/180 1/1 Not sure if this an 8/8 flying, first strike creature is worthy enough for Type 4, but this card sure if freaking cool.
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: type 4 [Shadowmoor]
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on: April 20, 2008, 12:30:32 am
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So my list for cards I'm going to add to Type 4 from Shadowmoor:
-Counterbore -Put Away -Puppeteer Clique -Woodfall Primus -Mistmeadow Witch (very, very strong, but as Mr. Type 4 said, it can actually be answered/countered unlike Chronicler) -Din of the Fireherd -Fracturing Gust -Vexing Shusher -Knollspine Dragon -Repel Intruders
Possibles: -Thought Reflection
I'm possibly missing one or two
EDIT: Forgot to add Shusher
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: type 4 [Shadowmoor]
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on: April 03, 2008, 02:42:45 am
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Woodfall Primus 5ggg Creature - Treefolk Shaman Rare Trample When Woodfall Primus comes into play, destroy target noncreature permanent. Persist (When this creature is put into a graveyard from play, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to play under its owner's control and put a -1/-1 counter on it) Illus. Adam Rex 6/6
I like this guy a lot for type 4 as well.
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: Type 4 [Lorwyn]
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on: September 24, 2007, 07:39:17 pm
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-Scattering Stroke seems worth inclusion as a Mana Drain that you can choose not to burn for (aka just a vanilla counterspell with Clash, which seems good enough for inclusion in most stacks)
-Eyeblight's Ending seems about as narrow as Rend Flesh/Chill to the Bone, which make the cut in many stacks
-Hamletback Giant just seems like a beating given a turn or two. He'll end up dying almost always just like Serra Avatar, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't make the cut.
-Rootgrapple is an instant-speed Creeping Mold. Seems good to me....
Other than that, the rest that are probably worth inclusion were covered by Mr. Type 4.
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Type 4 [Lorwyn]
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on: September 15, 2007, 08:22:23 am
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Up until recently the previews for this set have been relatively disappointing in terms of Type 4 playables, but now there are a few cards which will most likely make the cut in all stacks. Such as..... Guile 3uuu Creature – Elemental Incarnation Guile can't be blocked except by three or more creatures. If a spell or ability you control would counter a spell, instead remove that spell from the game and you may play that card without paying its mana cost. When guile is put into a graveyard from anywhere, shuffle it into its owner's library. 6/6 Rare. This guy seems absolutely ridiculous, and almost guaranteed to make it into almost any stack (except for possibly mine where I choose to not use ACCs). Not much more to say about this one.Cryptic Command 1uuu Instant Rare Choose two - Counter target spell; or return target permanent to its owner's hand; or tap all creatures your opponents control; or draw a card. Illus. Wayne England #56/301 Another auto-include into just about every stack. Dismiss with benefits is okay in my book. Chandra Nalaar 3rr Planeswalker - Chandra Rare +1: Chandra Nalaar deals 1 damage to target player. -X: Chandra Nalaar deals X damage to target creature. -8: Chandra Nalaar deals 10 damage to target player and each creature he or she controls. Illus. Aleksi Briclot #159/301 6 I don't know if the planeswalkers are good enough or not, but if any are, this one seems to be the best one for Type 4 (though Vess does seem pretty good for this format as well). Wild Ricochet 2rr Instant Rare You may choose new targets for target instant or sorcery spell. Then copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy. Fork + Shunt = Spot in Type 4 stacks. Wydwen, the Biting Gale 2ub Legendary Creature - Faerie Wizard Rare Flash Flying   , Pay 1 life: Return Wydwen, the Biting Gale to its owner's hand. 3/3 I don't know if she is good enough, but Flash on anything decent turns it up a notch in this formatRings of Brighthearth 3 Artifact Rare Whenever you play an activated ability, if it isn't a mana ability, you may pay 2. If you do, you may copy that ability. You may choose new targets for that copy. "Without flame, there would be no iron tools, no cooked meals, no purge of old growth to make room for new." -Brighthearth Creen Illus. Howard Lyon #259/301 While it's probably too limited since it's useless with infinite abilities like Masticores, it does good things with Mindslavers and Doors. Mosswort Bridge Land Rare Hideaway (This land comes into play tapped. When it does, look at the top 4 cards of your library, remove one from the game face down, then put the rest on the bottom of your library.)  : Add  to your mana pool.  ,{T}: You may play the removed card without paying its mana cost if creatures you control have a total power of 10 or greater. Illus. Jeremy Jarvis For those of you who play with ACC rules, this one could be a HUGE addition, since as soon as you resolve some fat you get that mystery card for free.
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Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: Type 4 Stack Lists and Resources
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on: June 26, 2007, 11:20:58 am
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Since nobody has posted a stack for the better part of a year, I'll give you all my current stack for reference. Over the past few months we've been doing trimming here and there to make the stack play out in a similar fashion to traditional competitive magic on a much larger scale. This means that we've cut all the cards that aren't specifically beneficial for the player casting them, such as Nullstone Gargoyle, Living Death/Twilight's Call, and Sway the Stars/Once More with Feeling. Also, trimming the power level of cards has helped add to the level of enjoyment by those playing by removing troublesome cards such as Citanul Flute, Tower of Fortunes, and Survival. As it currently stands (360 cards):
Blue:
Gift's Ungiven Muddle the Mixture Thwart Commandeer Squelch Vesuvan Doppelganger Foil Forbid Venser, Shaper Savant Spelljack Counterspell Decree of Silence Cancel Evacuation Dismiss Dissipate Controvert Mystical Teachings Discombobulate Dismal Failure Remand Keiga, the Tidal Star Ertai's Meddling Trickbind Grozoth Bringer of the Blue Dawn Time Stop Voidmage Apprentice Intuition Deflection Voidmage Prodigy Opportunity Bribery Voidmage Husher Deep-Sea Kraken Induce Paranoia Hoverguard Sweepers Chromeshell Crab Minamo's Meddling Spelljack Last Word Fact or Fiction Acquire Overwhelming Intellect Spin Into Myth Exclude Misdirection Take Posession Time Stretch Sakashima, the Imposter Fervent Denial Confiscate Twincast Mist Dragon Rainbow Efreet Clone Repeal Morphling Body Double Disrupting Shoal Willbender Force of Will Hinder Vesuvan Shapeshifter Wipe Away Arcanis the Omnipotent Dominate Draining Whelk Blatant Thievery Ertai, Wizard Adept Rewind Whispers of the Muse Desertion Assert Authority Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Tidal Kraken Repulse Tidespout Tyrant Pact of Negation
Red:
Word of Seizing Rorix Bladwing Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker Furnace Dragon Shunt Myojin Of Infinite Rage Scourge Of Kher Ridges Rain Of Rust Rimescale Dragon Imperial Hellkite Heat Ray Devastation Savage Beating Jiwari, the Earth Aflame Insurrection Flowstone Slide Pulse of the Forge Bringer of the Red Dawn Desolation Giant Parallectric Feedback Obliterate Starstorm Kamahl, Pit Fighter Cinder Cloud Dwarven Catapult Searing Wind Decree of Annihilation Bogardan Hellkite Flowstone Overseer Grab the Reins Urza's Rage Inferno Jokulhaups Reiterate Bloodfire Colossus Fork Fissure Crimson Hellkite Boldwyr Intimidator Riddle of Lightning Siege-Gang Commander Eron the Relentless Brimstone Dragon
Black:
Beacon of Unrest Corpse Dance Pthisis Yawgmoth's Agenda Infernal Spawn of Evil Laquatus's Champion Diabolic Edict Chill To The Bone Barter In Blood Lim-Dul the Necromancer Withered Wretch Rend Flesh Scion of Darkness Fevered Convulsions Sickening Shoal Chainer, Dementia Master Phage, the Untouchable Agonizing Demise Damnation Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni Rapid Decay Skeletal Scrying Avatar of Woe Sengir Nosferatu Promise of Power Myojin of Night's Reach Betrayal of Flesh Smokespew Invoker Disembowel Planeswalker's Scorn Sudden Death Spirit of the Night Annihilate Dregs of Sorrow Plague Wind Treacherous Urge Hypnox Coffin Purge Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil Kokusho, the Evening Star Decree of Pain Cremate Enslave Death Denied Reiver Demon Shred Memory Visara the Dreadful Overwhelming Forces Grim Harvest Bane of the Living Cruel Revival Bringer of the Black Dawn Slaughter Chainer's Edict Skinthinner Phyrexian Gargantua
White:
Blazing Archon Karmic Guide Chastise Kirtar's Wrath Wind's Of Wrath Evangelize Akroma, Angel Of Wrath Ray of Distortion Crowd Favorites Final Judgement Orim's Thunder Angel of Salvation Serra Avatar Glarecaster Return to Dust Miraculous Recovery Seed Spark Storm Herd Rout Look at Me, I'm the DCI Festival of the Guildpact Cover of Winter Shining Shoal Eight-and-a-Half-Tails Sunscape Battlemage Exhile Soulscour Delaying Shield Combat Medic Eternal Dragon Bringer of the White Dawn Wing Shards Invulnerability Second Thoughts Pristine Angel Safeguard Stonecloaker Pulse of the Fields Myojin of Cleansing Fire Dismantling Blow Akroma's Vengence Swords to Plowshares Alter's Light Glory Wrath of God Jareth, Leonine Titan Reya Dawnbringer Catastrophe Konda, Lord of Eiganjo
Green:
Rhox Genesis Bind Protean Hulk Krosan Grip Arashi, the Sky Asunder Crush of Wurm Thicket Elemental Silvos, Rogue Elemental Molder Myojin of Life's Web Beast Attack Sprout Swarm Eternal Witness Plated Slagwurm Holistic Wisdom Multani, Maro-Sorcerer Verdant Force Hunting Pack Krosan Cloudscraper Indrik Stomphowler Symbiotic Wurm Restock Krosan Colossus Tornado Elemental Silklash Spider Timmy, Power Gamer Stonewood Invocation Chord of Calling All Suns Dawn Fyndhorn Pollen Nantuko Vigilante Mystic Melting Child of Gaea Root Elemental Uktabi Kong Desert Twister Tornado Tooth and Nail Penumbra Wurm
Gold:
Sisters of Stone Death Simic Sky Swallower Swift Silence Phantom Nishoba Mortify Absorb Backlash Izzet Chronarch Firemane Angel Razia, Boros Archangel Spinal Embrace Arcades Sabboth Hymn of Rebirth Putrefy Iridescent Angel Pernicious Deed Kaervek, the Merciless Terminate Vindicate Vampiric Dragon Twisted Justice Voidslime Nicol Bolas Prophetic Bolt Angel of Despair Crosis' Charm Necrotic Sliver Yavimaya's Embrace Eladamri's Call Reflect Damage Teneb, the Harvester Dimir Doppelganger Dromar's Charm Reviving Vapors Armored Guardian Captain's Maneuver Mystic Snake Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind Undermine Garza Zol, Plague Queen Treva's Charm Wrecking Ball Deepfire Elemental Clutch of the Undercity Spiritmonger Cauldron Dance
Artifacts:
Memnarch Xanthic Statue Aladdin's Ring Shield of the Ages Masticore Stuffy Doll Oblivion Stone Mirari Grinning Totem Platinum Angel Soul Foundry Plague Boiler Gleemax Bosh, Iron Golem Vedalken Orrery Darksteel Colossus Pentavus Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang Quicksilver Amulet Panacea Mindslaver Duplicant Mind's Eye Suncrusher Door to Nothingness Legacy Weapon Tower of Eons World-Bottling Kit Predator Flagship Draco
Lands:
Volrath's Stronghold Winding Canyons Urza's Factory Prahv, Spires of Order Boseiju, Who Shelters All Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion Maze of Ith Karakas Kor Haven Arena
Split:
Hit/Run Crime/Punishment Odds/Ends Spite/Malice
Guild Mana:
Azorius Guildmage Debtors' Knell
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: Type 4 [Future Sight]
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on: April 24, 2007, 11:53:10 pm
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darkmindtone, you know that Jhoira doesn't actually cast the spell, she just removes them from the game, right? Maybe you aren't including that card when you talk about Suspending stuff. I don't see that mechanic as being spell-like any more than Quicksilver Amulet would be. Jhoira looks better than most of those cards on the list, probably excepting Take Posession.
To keep things simple and limit the amount of interpretation we the players have, our group reads card text literally, and thus it makes the suspend mechanic far worse than it would be in other stacks. Since suspend says "At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter from that card. When the last is removed, play it without paying its mana cost. If it's a creature, it has haste". I'm not implying that this is the correct method to play the format, but rather that it is what we do to keep it simple and allow for newcomers to pick up the cards and play with minimum confusion. If we were to open the door on player modifications, it's only a matter of time before it leads to effects like free Bringers/Fist of the Suns, player-created cards, and player modifications to existing cards (this is what happened in the last playgroup I was in that attempted to bend the rules of Magic for this format). If you play with suspend as free though, then Jhoira is beast and should be an auto-inclusion, as should Spellweaver Volute.
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: Type 4 [Future Sight]
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on: April 24, 2007, 08:07:02 am
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After getting most of the cards I needed at the Pre, I made the necessary cuts and additions to the stack, and ended up only adding in 7 cards (keep in mind we play with no alternate costs rule so Pact of Negation is simply a worse Counterspell and suspending a card takes your spell for the turn). Here is how I would rank them in power level:
7. Spin Into Myth 6. Seht's Tiger 5. Venser, Shaper Servant 4. Angel Of Salvation 3. Scourge of Kher Ridges 2. Sprout Swarm (why aren't more of you all including this card?) 1. Take Possession
I was toying with the inclusion of Riddle With Lightning, but I'd rather have the consistent removal of Spin Into Myth rather than the gamble of that Erratic Explosion with Scry. Overall I'd rate this set slightly better than Planar Chaos for Type 4, but coming up far short in comparison to Time Spiral (even considering the differences in set sizes).
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: Type 4 [Future Sight]
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on: April 19, 2007, 06:09:08 am
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This card looks absolutely ridiculous:
Take Possession 5uu Sorcery R
Split Second (As long as this spell is on the stack, players can't play spells or activated abilities that aren't mana abilities.) Gain control of target permanent. (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.) #44/180 This is going to be an absolute staple for every stack probably. Mist Dragon? I'll take it. Legacy Weapon? I'll take it. The situations are endless.
Pact of Negation 0 Instant R
Pact of Negation is blue. Counter target spell. At the beginning of your next upkeep, pay 3{U}{U}. If you don't, you lose the game. #42/180 The big card of the set. This is just a generic counter in Type 4, but possibly still worth inclusion if you need a higher concentration
Angel of Salvation 6ww Creature - Angel R
Flash, convoke Flying When Angel of Salvation comes into play, prevent 5 damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures and/or players. #1/180 5/5
She's no Bogardan Hellkite, but the Flash ability makes her playable by most standards. The prevention bonus gives even more incentive for inclusion.
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Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: Type 4 Stack Lists and Resources
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on: April 19, 2007, 05:45:00 am
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Aeon Chronicler is redic. I'm considering adding Pull From Eternity just to deal with him (plus, I've wanted a Wish-type spell in the stack for a while, and that's the least broken one).
I was definitely wrong on this one. Over the past few months we've played with Chronicler, and he's gotten to the point where we're probably going to remove him because of how powerful he is. The problem is you simply can't do anything once the player suspends him. Mind's Eye you can destroy, Whispers of the Muse you can counter, Tower of Fortunes (if you play it) can be destroyed as well (albeit it will still gain you massive card advantage usually). I don't think a single Pull From Eternity can do it often or consistently enough to be worth inclusion, but I could be wrong.
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: Type 4 [Future Sight]
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on: April 17, 2007, 08:03:21 am
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That card seems like fun, but I don't really want to be the person playing that. Just looks to make games get out of control, albeit in a very fun way.
A few other cards for Type 4 have popped up since my initial post. We'll start with an almost auto-include in all stacks:
Scourge of Kher Ridges 6rr Creature - Dragon R
Flying 1{R}: Scourge of Kher Ridges deals 2 damage to each creature without flying. 5{R}: Scourge of Kher Ridges deals 6 damage to each other creature with flying. 6/6
This guy is just awesome. He can kill everyone but himself all without targeting. Definitely good times.
Riddle of Lightning 3rr Instant C
Choose target creature or player. Scry 3, then reveal the top card of your library. Riddle of Lightning deals damage equal to that card’s converted mana cost to that creature or player.
I may be overvaluing this, but this does seem solid in a format with casting costs like Type 4. It may not be Searing Wind or Rage, but it can occasionally deal more and it always assists with drawing better.
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: German Highlander
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on: April 15, 2007, 03:20:35 am
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That WGD deck seems fair though. You need a lot of setup and the combo is vulnerable to hate that any good deck will be running. What if the combo happens only around turn 5? Is it still unfair? What if it only happens on turn 10 or later? Still unfair?
It seems people hate playing against combo because they perceive it as inherently unfair, but there are certainly fair combos that should be allowed. If you're transmuting for Animate Dead, good on ya, it means you aren't stopping my Ronom Unicorn.
This format had two TPS decks in the top 8 of their annual big event last year, and allows Bargain, Will, Gifts, etc. to be played still. There is definitely a healthy combo presence already, so I trust they made the decision on Dragon because it was truly degenerate. On the format, my local area recently began playing it after interest generated from the MTG.com article that appeared a month or so ago. It's been extremely popular, often bringing more people than the sanctioned limited or constructed events being hosted. Any format that allows me to Yosei lock people out of the game with Recurring Nightmare is fine by me.....
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Type 4 [Future Sight]
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on: April 12, 2007, 08:42:55 am
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Half the set has been revealed so far on Salvation and barring any errors in accuracy, there have been a number of possible additions to people's stacks: Seht's Tiger 2ww Creature - Cat (TS) R Flash (You may play this spell any time you could play an instant.) When Seht's Tiger comes into play, you gain protection from the color of your choice until end of turn. (You can't be targeted, dealt damage, or enchanted by anything of the chosen color.) Illus. Thomas Gianni #31/180 3/3 I love this guy, and despite the incredibly high power level of a T4 stack, he appears like he should be able to hold his own. There are just too many applications to name, but it will be so sweet owning Urza's Rage/Seering Wind with a 3/3Delay 1u Instant U Counter Target spell. If the spell is countered in this way, remove it from the game with three time counters on it instead of putting it into its owner's graveyard. If it doesn't have suspend, it gains suspend. I don't know what to make of this card in T4. My playgroup plays with suspend still counting for your spell for the turn, so that raises the power level of this card somewhat. Still, time will tell if this card has what it takesVenser, Shaper Savant 2uu Legendary Creature - Human Wizard R Flash (You may play this spell any time you could play an instant) When Venser, Shaper Savant comes into play, return target spell or permanent to its owner's hand. His marvels of artifice pale in comparison to the developing machinery of his mind. Illus. Aleksi Briclot #46/180 2/2 I'm definitely a fan of this guy. Mystic Snake Remand-style as well as instant speed bounce w/a 2/2 body appears to be worthy of inclusionSpin into Myth 4u Instant (TS) U Put target creature on top of its owner's library, then fateseal 2. (Look at the top two cards of an opponent's library, then put any number of them on the bottom of that player's library and the rest on top in any order) Illus. David Day At first I didn't really think much of this card, but it's basically creature removal with benefits, so I see no reason not to include it over many other targeted removal optionsSprout Swarm 1g Instant C Convoke (Each creature you tap while playing this spell reduces its total cost by 1 or by one mana of that creature's color) Buyback 3 (You may pay an additional 3 as you play this spell. If you do, put this card into your hand as it resolves.) Put a 1/1 green Saproling creature token into play. Illus. Chippy #138/180 My playgroup played with "Blast From The Past" for a short while, but quickly discovered it was far too powerful for inclusion after it continually won almost all games it dodged getting countered. This appears to be a fixed version of it, and hopefully isn't too powerful for most stacksTolaria West Land U Tolaria West comes into play tapped.  : Add  to your mana pool Transmute 1{U}{U} (1{U}{U}, Discard this card: Search your library for a card with a converted mana cost of 0, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library. Play only as a sorcery.) Illus. Khang Le #173/180 This is the one I'm least sure of, but with enough quality lands included in a stack (or 0cc cards), this card holds significant power
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21
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Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: Type 4 Stack Lists and Resources
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on: March 04, 2007, 12:30:07 am
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Aeon Chronicler is redic. I'm considering adding Pull From Eternity just to deal with him (plus, I've wanted a Wish-type spell in the stack for a while, and that's the least broken one).
I agree he's been quite strong so far. Not strong enough to warrant cards like Pull From Eternity being included, but still a fine card. One card that's been quite strong as well, but not broken, is Planeswalker's Mischief. The sorcery speed activation definitely keeps the card in check, and once everyone gets over the fact that it has a bazillion words in the text box it proves to be a solid addition to the stack. In fact it recently won the game by simply making the Tooth and Nail in my hand essentially uncounterable except to onboard effects.
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22
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Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: Type 4 Stack Lists and Resources
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on: January 31, 2007, 04:48:21 am
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What is everyone's general take on equipment? I've been running 6 pieces currently (both Swords, Tatsumasa, Skullclamp, Warhammer, and Fireshrieker), and now that I'm cutting cards for Planar Chaos I'm wondering if any of these other than Dragon Fang are actually strong enough for inclusion anymore. I think the effects are awesome, but as individual cards these cards simply can't compare to the other cards in the stack (again, Tatsumasa is the exception). I just wanted to get some second opinions on the subject. Thanks.
EDIT: Also, what is people's opinions on Weatherseed Totem? I've been thinking about including it for a while, and it seems like a strong possibility. It's immune to Wrath effects, and it can be very hard to deal with in the long run.
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23
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: [Type 4] Planar Chaos
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on: January 22, 2007, 10:33:49 pm
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I think Vindicate Sliver is good enough for addition as well. Barring an opposing Stifle/Trickbind effect, he seems strictly better than both Vindicate or Desert Twister. I was still running Seal of Cleansing until I saw this guy, and now I can finally cut that card.
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24
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: [Type 4] Planar Chaos
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on: January 17, 2007, 10:34:38 am
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While this set doesn't seem to have quite as much for Type 4 as Time Spiral did (in relation to set size of course), but it still seems to have a number of playables. Cards that I'm likely to add:
-Stonecloaker (I'm really liking this card and the possibilities it has) -Aeon Chronicler (Like others, I'm really digging the uncounterable draw and possible huge win condition) -Body Double (Definetly seems playable) -Dismal Failure (It's a hard counter with a perk) -Enslave (I play all the control magic effects, and this one is probably the best) -Damnation (Wrath effects, just like counterspells, are a necessity) -Seal Of Primordium (Seal of Cleansing is good, so this is likely to make the cut) -Intent, The Dreamer (Definetly has an ability better suited for thsi format than the Invasion dragons) -Teneb, The Harvester (It's possibly better than Ink-Eyes and Scion) -Vorosh, The Hunter (I love this guy as he just gets HUGE)
Torchling is a maybe, as we'll have to see how he turns out in games. Provoke is no flying, and redirection is no untargetability, but he still has quite a few abilities to at least warrent consideration.
Well, that's not a whole lot, but the spoiler isn't complete quite yet.
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25
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Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: Type 4 Stack Lists and Resources
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on: October 18, 2006, 11:19:59 pm
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I finally got the time/motivation to type up my stack list. Honestly, I don't have any complaints about the stack currently as I think I've finally got it to a point where I'm really happy with it. It runs on a slightly lower power level than many of the other stacks shown on here, as it doesn't utilize the alternate casting cost rule/firebreathers/Dark Depths/player-created cards/etc. A new change to the stack is that cards only do exactly what they say they do without any player modification. This stops confusion from newer players when playing for the first few times. Thus, no modified Who/What/When/Why/Where, Quanar, Tsabo's Decree, Vedalken Shackles, etc so that they're able to be included. The entwine cards such as Betrayal Of Flesh simply offer choices instead of giving the ability to do both. Also, direct tutoring effects without limitation are looked down upon as well, so Planar Portal, Aladdin's Lamp, Soothsaying, and Flash Of Insight are not included.
The stack is currently 380 cards, with an almost excessive amount of removal. The games often go long, as dying quickly usually ends up unsatisfying for a player. Wars of attrition are often how this stack plays out. Still, there are occasional plays like turn 1 Tooth and Nail for Glarecaster/Silklash Spider while nobody holds a counter.
This stack operates with a 5-card starting hand and infinite effects are resolved via:
Damage/Removal < Prevention/Protection < Counters
Blue Creatures:
Morphling Teferi, Mage Of Zhalfir Draining Whelk Hoverguard Sweepers Mist Dragon Gilded Drake Tidespout Tyrant Voidmage Apprentice Ertai, Wizard Adept Sakashima The Imposter Grozoth Voidmage Prodigy Tidal Kraken Vesuvan Doppelganger Vesuvan Shapeshifter Bringer Of The Blue Dawn Clone Deep-Sea Kraken Willbender Quicksilver Dragon Arcanis The Omnipotent Rainbow Efreet Chromeshell Crab Keiga, The Tide Star Metathran Aerostat Aeon Chronicler Body Double
Blue Spells:
Last Word Evacuation Govern The Guildless Cancel Spell Blast Exclude Rewind Mystical Teachings Whispers Of The Muse Dissapate Overwhelming Intellect Time Stretch Aquire Repulse Thwart Stifle Dominate Forbid Controvert Squelch Misdirection Bribary Force Of Will Reins Of Power Twincast Blatant Thievery Desertion Dismiss Minamo’s Meddling Counterspell Disrupting Shoal Trickbind Discombobulate Fact Or Fiction Deflection Time Stop Gift’s Ungiven Ertai’s Meddling Commandeer Confoud Intuition Muddle The Mixture Repeal Hinder Persuasion Induce Paranoia Spelljack Fervent Denial Foil Opportunity Interdict Swat The Stars Assert Authority Remand Wipe Away Dismal Failure
Blue Enchantments:
Binding Grasp Confiscate Control Magic Treachery
Black Creatures:
Kokusho, The Evening Star Reiver Demon Phage The Untouchable Chainer, Dementia Master Laquatus’s Champion Spirit Of The Night Ink-Eyes, Servant Of Oni Infernal Spawn Of Infernal Spawn Of Evil Sengir Nosferatu Visara The Dreadful Avatar Of Woe Myojin Of Night’s Reach Bringer Of The Black Dawn Smokespew Invoker Bane Of The Living Withered Wretch Scion Of Darkness Infernal Spawn Of Evil Plaguebearer Hypnox Lim-Dul, the Necromancer
Black Spells:
Beacon Of Unrest Sickening Shoal Barter In Blood Overwhelming Forces Dregs Of Sorrow Chainer’s Edict Phthisis Death Denied Corpse Dance Chill To The Bone Grim Harvest Diabolic Edict Expunge Shred Memory Decree Of Pain Rend Flesh Plague Wind Cremate Agonizing Demise Annihilate Slaughter Living Death Disembowel Betrayal Of Flesh Cruel Revival Sudden Death Promise Of Power Skeletal Scrying Headstone Twilight’s Call Coffin Purge Rapid Decay Damnation Treacherous Urge
Black Enchantments:
Yawgmoth’s Agenda Planeswalker’s Scorn Fevered Convulsions Enslave
White Creatures:
Combat Medic Serra Avatar Eternal Dragon Reya Dawnbringer Bringer Of The White Dawn Glory Eight-And-A-Half-Tails Sunscape Battlemage Karmic Guide Myojin Of Cleansing Fire Crowd Favorites Akroma, Angel Of Wrath Glarecaster Blazing Archon Jareth, Leonine Titan Adarkar Valkyrie Stonecloaker Konda, Lord of Eiganjo
White Spells:
Once More With Feeling Look At Me I’m The DCI Second Thoughts Invulnerability Final Judgement Storm Herd Shining Shoal Alter’s Light Miraculous Recovery AWOL Radiant’s Judgement Evangelize Wrath Of God Akroma’s Vengence Dismantling Blow Swords To Plowshares Soulscour Winds Of Wrath Devouring Light Boros Fury-Shield Catastrophe Wing Shards Chastise Exile Return To Dust Kirtar’s Wrath Hail Of Arrows Orim’s Thunder Rout Seed Spark Pulse Of The Fields Mirror Strike Ray Of Distortion Festival of the Guildpact
White Enchantments:
Cover Of Winter Delyaying Shield Safeguard
Red Creatures:
Bogardan Hellkite Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker Rimescale Dragon Bloodfire Colossus Bringer Of The Red Dawn Desolation Giant Eron, the Relentless Kamahl, Pit Fighter Jiwari, The Earth Aflame Furnace Dragon Rorix Bladewing Imperial Hellkite Myojin Of Infinite Rage Flowstone Overseer
Red Spells:
Pulse Of The Forge Urza’s Rage Heat Ray Word Of Seizing Devastation Inferno Cinder Cloud Savage Beating Reiterate Grab The Reins Shunt Parallectric Feedback Obliterate Starstorm Jokulhaups Flowstone Slide Fissure Dwarven Catapult Insurrection Searing Wind Decree Of Annihilation Flash Conscription Rain of Rust
Red Enchantments:
Task Mage Assembly
Green Creatures:
Verdant Force Genesis Plated Slagwurm Nantuko Vigilante Indrik Stomphowler Uktabi Kong Arashi, The Sky Asunder Root Elemental Eternal Witness Myojin Of Life’s Web Silvos, Rogue Elemental Tornado Elemental Timmy, Power Gamer Krosan Cloudscraper Thicket Elemental Protean Hulk Symbiotic Wurm Child Of Gaea Rhox Multani, Maro-Sorcerer Silklash Spider Penumbra Wurm Krosan Colossus
Green Spells:
Stonewood Invocation Restock Holistic Wisdom Chord Of Calling Beast Attack Desert Twister Hunting Pack Bind Krosan Grip Tooth And Nail Mystic Melting Molder All Suns Dawn Crush Of The Wurms
Green Enchantments:
Fyndhorn Pollen Tornado Survival Of The Fittest
Gold Creatures:
Autochthon Wurm Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind Sisters Of Stone Death Angel Of Despair Izzet Chronarch Arcades Sabboth Simic Sky Swallower Iname As One Phantom Nishoba Armored Guardian Nicol Bolas Mystic Snake Deepfire Elemental Kaervek The Merciless Razia, Boros Archangel Vampiric Dragon Garza Zol, Plague Queen Dimir Doppelganger Firemane Angel Iridescent Angel Yore-Tiller Nephilim Necrotic Sliver Teneb, the Harvester
Gold Spells:
Vindicate Treva’s Charm Twisted Justice Swift Silence Wrecking Ball Crosis’s Charm Reflect Damage Putrefy Dromar’s Charm Hymn Of Rebirth Absorb Mortify Terminate Eladamri’s Call Captain’s Maneuver Spinal Embrace Undermine Prophetic Bolt Reviving Vapors Voidslime Backlash Delirium
Gold Enchantments:
Pernicious Deed Yavimaya Embrace
Artifact Creatures:
Platinum Angel Darksteel Colossus Draco Nullstone Gargoyle Duplicant Bosh, Iron Golem Suncrusher Memnarch Masticore Pentavus Colossus Of Sardia Stuffy Doll
Artifacts:
Shield Of Ages Mindslaver Vedalken Orrery Legacy Weapon Grinning Totem Quicksilver Amulet Aladdin’s Ring Gleemax World-Bottling Kit Plague Boiler Tower Of Eons Tatsumasa, The Dragon’s Fang Oblivion Stone Mirari Citanul Flute Panacea Mind’s Eye Soul Foundry That Which Was Taken Xanthic Statue Door To Nothingness Predator Flagship
Lands:
Karakas Arena Urza’s Factory Kor Haven Prahv, Spires Of Order Sunhome, Fortress Of The Legion Tomb Of Urami Maze Of Ith Boseiju, Who Shelters All Volrath’s Stronghold Winding Canyons Academy Ruins
Split:
Order/Chaos Hit/Run Crime/Punishment Odds/Ends Spite/Malice
Guild Mana:
Azorius Guildmage Debtors’ Knell
EDIT JAN 26: Now with Planar Chaos additions and the cuts that came as a result of them.
EDIT 04 FEB: Finished cutting nearly 40 cards and adding all the relevant PC additions. The stack now plays better than ever, and the group I play with now is just as enthusiastic about the format as I am.
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26
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: TIMESPIRAL in TYPE 4
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on: September 29, 2006, 10:16:37 pm
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Do you all think Smash and Allay are better than say, Rain of Rust and Purify? While Purify is a sorcery, it's a pretty solid wipe the board clean effect for brokenness.
And Sneak Attack is a really fun card. Just wait until somebody gets Sneak Attack/Greater Good going on in a creature-heavy draft deck. It's insane.
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27
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: TIMESPIRAL in TYPE 4
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on: September 25, 2006, 07:38:42 pm
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Thank you WhiteWolf as well as everyone else for the card choice discussion. I'm in the process of getting the stack down to around the 400 area (which is quite difficult considering how insane TS is). I've already cut around 50-60 cards so far, and am working on the last few, so I have a few questions on how other people value these cards (some are in my stack, and some I've just wondered about): -Volrath The Fallen (I've had him in since the start and never really thought to question him, but he really isn't that overall impressive without any evasion and the likely possibilty of losing card advantage to a removal spell should you use the ability) -Lifeline (doesn't seemt to do enough on it's own w/o a creature, but probably a possibility for some creature heavy stacks) -Adarkyr Valkyrie / Lim-Dul, The Necromancer (I recently cut Valkyrie due to her relatively unimpressive stats and having a mildly needy ability. Lim-Dul seems to suffer from the same (albeit slightly less) symptoms) -Silver Wyvern (I am definetly considering this card as an alternative to Quicksilver Dragon. Although it's slightly smaller w/o Morph, the ability to redirect abilities is quite handy to have as well. It could be argued though that the new Vampire does a similar effect much better, so he's probably much better for the slot) -Searing Touch (I personally love this card, as it gives you something to do each and every turn without being damaging enough to necessarily make yourself a target. The pings do add up over time, and it's not as overly insane as Blast From The Past) -Moratorium Stone (I run it currently, but it is non-cantripping/creature/instant graveyard removal, making it pretty limited in how good it can be. I'm undecided on this, and I'd like to hear what your thoughts on it are) Looks like I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and fork over some cash for stuff like Illusionary Mask and Overwhelming Forces if I want my stack to be all it can be. Both definetly seem to be worth it. And BTW Whitewolf, I play a slightly less extreme version of this format w/o alternate casting costs = free spells and no-restriction tutoring effects such as Planar Portal and Soothsaying. It's not as insane as your Firebreathing/Fist of the Suns/Nezumi Graverobber-style stack, but people do get to live a little longer, which around here seems to be pretty popular 
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28
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Re: TIMESPIRAL in TYPE 4
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on: September 23, 2006, 02:38:08 pm
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Due to this set having an absolutely ridiculous amount of playables, I'm in the process of trimming my stack (hovers between 400-450 cards), and I'd like to hear a few opinions on some of the cards that are possibly about to be sidelined:
-Living Hive/Penumbra Wurm/Gigapede/Sekki, Season's Guide/Bringer Of The Green Dawn/Krosan Colossus (these green beaters are usually lacking in solid evasion or relevent abilities, though I can see reasons for inclusion) -Thran Tome/Phyrexian Grimore (unlike the draw 4 Tower, all the cards drawn by these can actually be put to use since it's a more moderate amount more suited for the Type 4 rules. It's not very fun to play against these either w/o an answer) -Meddling Kids/Etched Oracle (solid utility guys that just seemed to not do enough) -Dreams Of The Dead/Future Sight/Yet Another Aether Vortex/Ach, Hans Run (really fun enchantments that are very reliant on other conditions to be relevent)
These just seemed the weaker cards in my very removal heavy stack (I play pretty much every disechant/wrath/good targeted removal). I could be and probably am wrong on a few of these, but they seem to be some of the last picked (there are additional cards I'm cutting like the UWR Beacons, but I'm pretty sure they're simply not powerful enough for this format).
And regarding Spell Burst, it's probably the best counterspell for type 4 ever, and probably too powerful for my stack. I play every hard counter in existance that I know of at the moment (from Withering Boon to Mystic Denial to an errated Spell Counter), but that card even outclasses the mighty Forbid.
BTW, What's people's thoughts on Ixidron from TS? I can't tell if he's gonna be solid enough for play or not, but his ability is indeed interesting.
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29
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: UW FISH: Teh Primer!
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on: September 07, 2006, 09:27:53 pm
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Feinstein, have you possibly thought of Envelop in the board? After discussing the combo match with you, I brainstormed a little while and that card has serious applications in that match and many others. A 1-mana hard counter for the 3 most important spells the combo player has post-board: Will, Tinker, and Massacre is a bargain. The fact that it is immune to the 2-3 Misdirection being run in Combo and many Gifts decks these days make it even more appealing (also of note is it's a Blue spell, and that's always good). The 4th Rod, while good simply for redundancy will most likely fall prey to the multiple mass artifact bounce spells likely to appear. I'm not saying the 4th Rod's not worth it, but Envelop is definetly an option that should be looked at. Something along the lines of this could be a possible sideboard:
3 Orim's Chant 3 Seal Of Cleansing 3 Umezawa's Jitte 2 Envelop 2 Energy Flux 2 Threads Of Disloyalty
I agree though with pretty much everything you said here except for the 3 Stifle. Like I said earlier, that is a card that you want early, often. Just like SS ran 4, I personally think rather than the 1 Misdirection, 4 Stifles are recommended to support the 3 Rod, 4 Waste, 1 Stip mana denial plan. Maybe I'm wrong, but to my way of deckbuilding via consistancy, 4 Stifles (despite their weak late-game applications) appears to be correct.
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30
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Vintage Community Discussion / Type 4 / Re: Type 4 Stack Lists and Resources
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on: February 05, 2006, 12:48:16 am
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So any thoughts on the new cards from Guildpact possibly making the stack? So far I've seen these that seem to warrent inclusion:
Storm Herd (I'm hoping it's not too ridiculous to cause me to remove it) Frazzle Parralectric Feedback Angel Of Despair Goblin Flectomancer Killer Instinct Niz-Mizzet, The Firemind Mortify Debtor's Knell
possibles: Skarrg, The Rage Pits Cerebral Vortex Petrified Wood-Kin Seize The Soul Drowning Buerocrats
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