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1  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Asylum Visitor on: March 21, 2016, 12:33:21 am
I thought this was the new NYSE playmat for a second.

It should be the last place trophy. 
2  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Behold he Beyond on: March 18, 2016, 11:35:00 pm
This card is very powerful, but it's fairly cost.  It's so close.
3  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Asylum Visitor on: March 18, 2016, 06:34:51 pm
so multiple copies are great vs a hellbent opponent, but not good for you unless you can cast an instant in between resolutions.

The ability only triggers once each upkeep, so you can only draw 1 card per turn.  There are situations where you can draw a card on your turn and a card on your opponents turn. 
4  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] asylum visitor on: March 18, 2016, 10:35:08 am
Dredge could play this card to get around hate cards.
5  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / [SOI] Asylum Visitor on: March 18, 2016, 09:58:27 am
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/shadows-over-innistrad/26792-asylum-visitor

Seems incredible with Liliana of the Veil.  

6  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Westvale Abbey/Ormedhahl, Profane Price on: March 18, 2016, 06:52:07 am
I've thought more about this card.  I still love it.  There is a very simple reason why.  It does something early in the game by tapping for mana.  It does something in the middle of the game by making tokens.  It has a HUGE payout late in the game.  

Let's take a "bad" matchup for MUD in Oath of Druids.  Sacrificing tokens and making a dude that makes Dromoka look like a small fly seems good to me.   
7  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Trail of Evidence on: March 17, 2016, 07:41:37 pm
Is investigating better than making a 1/1 prowess?

Probably not, but is another blue card better than playing white and exposing your mana base? 
8  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Westvale Abbey/Ormedhahl, Profane Price on: March 17, 2016, 03:10:05 pm
How does this card work with Duplicant? Which side is face-up in exile?

As long as a card exiled with Duplicant is a creature card, Duplicant has the power, toughness, and creature types of the last creature card exiled with Duplicant. It's still a Shapeshifter.

In every zone, this card is a land card.  The only time it is a creature is if it is in play, transformed.  So Duplicant would be a 2/4
9  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / [SOI] Trail of Evidence on: March 17, 2016, 03:07:06 pm


I can see this being playing as a sideboard card in combo vs other blue lists.  With Tolarian Academy, the clues are basically adding mana, and you can sacrifice them to draw a card if you stall out.  Not great, but interesting, and this is the hardest push of the "clue" design printed on any card yet. 
10  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Drownyard Temple on: March 17, 2016, 01:15:13 pm
It gets more reasonable in dredge if your list includes riftstone portal
11  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Drownyard Temple on: March 17, 2016, 10:55:12 am

It "works" with zuran orb, although you will need infinite mana to go infinite.


This is the exact reason why I threw it out in the threads.  I hadn't thought about this, and it's certainly interesting.  You are right though, you would need a lot more. 
12  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Westvale Abbey/Ormedhahl, Profane Price on: March 17, 2016, 10:47:58 am
no, you would have to sac hangarback first, then sac the tokens.  
13  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / [SOI] Drownyard Temple on: March 17, 2016, 10:43:53 am



T: Add C to your mana pool
3: Return Drownyard Temple from your graveyard to the battlefield, tapped.


This card is really unique, as there are plenty of graveyard strategies in Vintage/Legacy.  Dredge is one that specifically comes to mind, but the 3 mana cost to activate is probably a hinderance.  
It's probably not good, but I feel it deserves to be thrown out into the forums to see if anyone comes up with any good interactions. 
14  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / [SOI] Westvale Abbey/Ormedhahl, Profane Price on: March 17, 2016, 10:38:50 am


Oracle Text

T: Add C to your mana pool.

5, T, Pay 1 life: Put a 1/1 white and black Human Cleric creature token onto the battlefield.

5, T, Sacrifice five creatures: Transform Westvale Abbey, then untap it.



Oracle Text

Flying, lifelink, indestructible, haste.

I really like this card as it has 3 abilities.  Taps for colorless, makes creature tokens (albeit at a heavy cost), and finally the large upside for the card is creating this incredibly huge, hasty monster with lifelink.

I can see this card being played as a 1 of in MUD lists with hangarback walker/arcbound ravager.  
15  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / [SOI] Traverse The Ulvenwald on: March 17, 2016, 10:35:12 am



Mana fixing early, tutor for any creature later.  Not necessarily a great card, but the cost is right.  It is probably worse than Green Sun's Zenith, but it can get creatures of any color.  
16  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Epiphany at the Drownyard on: March 16, 2016, 09:21:29 am
for 4 mana, the same as fact or fiction, they will stick you with 1 card.  With fact or fiction you get to choose what you need more and allow your opponent to make a misplay.  Here your opponent has a lot more control over the situation than you do.  I don't like it.
17  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Nahiri, the Harbinger on: March 14, 2016, 11:38:37 am
I like how you don't have to discard the card to the +2 ability. 

Unfortunately, this card is not Vintage playable due to the colors. 
18  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Thing In The Ice on: March 13, 2016, 08:45:17 pm
TITI can also be combined with Vampire Hexmage and Hex Parasite. No need for instants and sorceries ⌒.⌒

Hmm, that is actually an interesting interaction I didn't know about before I said this card was terrible.  Dark depths, thespian's stage, vampire hexmage, thing in the ice in a blue black shell is pretty reasonable.  Vampire hexmage is actually a very good magic card.  
19  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Brain in a Bottle on: March 12, 2016, 08:25:37 pm
that ruling is enough for me to start a mini buyout of beck//call.  Some of the pros showed up with beck//call in elves at GP Detroit and made it deep into day 2.  
20  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Brain in a Bottle on: March 11, 2016, 12:59:24 pm
if it has 0 counters on it, you activate this ability, sacrifice the card, then it resolves with 0 counters on it.  It has to be in play to have a counter placed on it as part of the resolution of the effect.  

The last known position of the card was 0 counters.  The additional counter is added upon resolution, and since it is not in play, no counters are added.  


Quote
How does this work with ancestral visions and wheel of fate from future sight?

As best I can tell, it doesn't work with them at all, and that's probably intentional.

So yes, it can work with them.
21  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Brain in a Bottle on: March 11, 2016, 10:01:55 am
a neat interation with this card is to stack it's first ability, sacrifice the card, then cast any spell with 0 mana - includes cards like ancestral vision, hypergenesis and living end.  

not sure if it's vintage relevant, but it's a non-intuitive interation I thought I'd throw out.  
22  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Thing In The Ice on: March 11, 2016, 08:13:01 am
Multiple players have mentioned mentor and 4 spells.  Mentor is good because it triggers with artifacts and planeswalkers as well.  Casting 4 instants or sorceries is very specific.

A deck that does this all the time is storm.  Maybe this is a sideboard card for the storm decks.   
23  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Thing In The Ice on: March 10, 2016, 08:04:07 am
Katsby,

I posted before you that I didn't think it was good enough.  Smile

Casting 4 instant/sorcery spells is a HUGE cost.  

However, I do like this card vs Dredge a lot.  I just don't see it being good vs much else.  Vs Shops it looks good, but casting those 4 spells is gonna be tougher than it sounds.  Vs. other blue creature lists (delver, pyromancer, mentor) they should be able to reasonably anwser this card before it flips.  Or they could take a line that when it flips its just a 7/8 and bounce it with Jace.  They could also force the flip, then bounce with Jace.  The fact that you cannot control if you want it to flip or not is a HUGE drawback.  A blue mirror could force the issue with a cheap spell that demands a counter, then bounce with Jace.  Reset, here is your 0/4 crappy wall again, enjoy.  

The upside on the card could be huge, but the downside is that's its an 0/4 wall that does absolutely nothing when drawn late.  Outside of being in a opening hand, the lines you have to take to get this online are going to be convoluted and not intuitive.  That much different than Delver of Secrets, because when draw late, it only takes up 1 mana and can flip relatively quickly.  

I would almost always prefer to have a pyromancer with 4 1/1s in play than a flipped one of these ever.  And at least pyromancer is scalable and isn't inclusive, and leaves something behind if it leaves the battlefield. 

Also, if you are casting 4 instant/sorcery spells in a game, aren't you already winning that game?  So it's an 0/4 wall 80% of the time, and win more 20% of the time.  No thanks, I don't find that playable.  

24  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Thing In The Ice on: March 08, 2016, 07:57:30 pm
If this card started as an 0/6, I'd be on board.  As is, I think the cost of triggering it is too steep to make it playable and an 0/4 can't block enough stuff in the format.  
25  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Eternal Masters CONFIRMED on: February 29, 2016, 08:55:09 pm
Wizards has confirmed that it has no intentions of making an eternal format.  The original announcement specifically said these cards will help those who have cubes, commander, legacy, and vintage decks. 

Eternal will not exist. 
26  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Eternal Masters CONFIRMED on: February 27, 2016, 12:39:39 am
Greg,

Very amazing post and I'm glad my opinions on this matter have evoked such a thought provoking discussion on the Reserve List.

I still think time is a component of the game that new players overlook.  Cards are consistently become more and more powerful.  If a brand new player decided to commit the time to a bi-weekly booster draft, that's 26 in a year at a price of $30 a month, for the next 10 years, I guarantee that player, if they trade wisely (another time commitment) and bulk out everything, that player could have any vintage deck he or she would want.  If they stayed focused on the goal.  Look at some of the sets you would have drafted in that time frame:  Zendikar, Worldwake, Rise of the Eldrazi, Lorwyn, Modern Masters 1 & 2, Future Sight, Oath of the Gatewatch (this set will be legendary one day). 

Like you, I have been playing for many years.  I agree that I can go and click and buy a bunch of cards on the internet with money, but I amassed my collection by slowing spending, trading wisely, and playing the game for 22 years.  The 10 years I'm suggesting a new player would have to invest isn't even 1/2 of the time I have invested in the game.  I didn't get the collection I currently have in a day, it's taken 2/3s of my lifetime.  I started at 10 and I'm 32 today.  

You cannot short cut this devotion to a hobby.  

And that is ultimately why I welcome higher prices.  Higher prices on cards give players who have invested time and money, growing the game to what it currently is, a reward for their efforts.   It makes it easier for us to travel to events, because I can now cover the cost of hotel and travel to Eternal Weekend by selling 6 Null Rods.  The hobby has paid for itself at this point.  And since the game only continues to grow in popularity, I see myself reaping future dividends from my collection as well.

But it's not just that, I honestly believe that higher prices force the people who own the cards to show up to the big tournaments.  It basically becomes an ultimatum to people.  Why do I own a set of power if I don't go to Eternal Weekend?  I should either go, or I should sell it to someone else who actually will go.  That's why I think Vintage Championships has grown almost every year since it was introduced.  Well, I should take that back because the Vintage Championships had been stagnant for many years in attendance from 2007-2011, along with the price of power, and it wasn't until prices started creeping up that attendance also increased at the event (**I would love another historian of the game step in and simply back up this point, you don't have to agree with me, but please vouch that this is indeed correct**).  Higher prices have only benefited the Vintage community, in my honest opinion.  

Quote
I agree with Greg, and I find the sentiment he quotes from gkraigher at the end of his post abhorrent and a terrible thing to say as a member of the Vintage community

You are putting words in his mouth, as Greg took a much more measured and less confrontational approach to what I was saying.  You are certainly entitled to your opinions on the matter, but I don't see how anything I am saying is abhorrent and terrible towards the community.  Because, quite frankly, it isn't.  

Unpopular, unique, different are terms I'd accept.  
27  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Eternal Masters CONFIRMED on: February 26, 2016, 06:17:02 pm
I'd really prefer it if people didn't call the price increase in null rod a "buyout" and instead refer to it as a "price correction" that better reflects current and future demand for the card.

I think the term "buyout" should only be used in reference to people who try to corner the market on a card and then try to manipulate the price.  "Price correction" however is what happens naturally when speculators see and take an opportunity to make money because a card is underpriced due to its future demand. 

28  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Eternal Masters CONFIRMED on: February 26, 2016, 10:02:01 am

As far as a "small batches" approach to selling power, duals, and breaking the reserve list. I call total horseshit on that.  Hasbo owns Wizards, they are a major corporation who cares about the bottom line.  Once they open up the floodgates, they won't be able to shut them off.  The game will turn into Monopoly, another Hasbro game.  

You hear all the endless and hopeless cries right now from players who don't own all the cards they want to own.  Magnify it by 10000 if they do a small reprint of reserve list cards.  If those people had hope, it will only grow louder and louder.  It would only be a small matter of time before no one buys another standard card ever again.  GG everyone loses.

This is a classic slippery slope fallacy. One need only look Modern Masters 1 and 2 to see that your assertion is, as you so elegantly put it, "total horseshit".

And now we have a masters set every year.  Sure it looks like slippery slope fallacy, but it's a reality.  Give the players what they want, then they demand more.  Sell the cards at 3x what you sell normal packs for and the Board of Hasbro wants more.  

I took a logic class in college, I know all the "fallacies" you are evoking.  Believe it or not, because something is fallacious that doesn't make the statement WRONG.  It simply makes it fallacious.  

Quote
I do not want a community where we exclude people for monetary reasons like that.

No matter how you cut this, people will always be excluded from the Eternal formats.  If you exclude 10,000 people or 1 person, there will always be an exclusion.  What you are suggesting is idealistic.  In a situation where no one is excluded from the format, people will be excluded from tournaments because they will have to cap the number of participants for time constraints.  There is no way to include everyone all the time.

Magic is a collectible card game first.  The tournament scenes to Magic are great, but that's just a bonus.  I'm sorry I still believe in Capitalism and the Rule of Law.  There are plenty of Power 9 and Dual lands out there currently not in use.  The market of all participants, through natural supply and demand, has determined the price of these cards.  I'm sorry if you don't agree with natural forces like economics, but it's the reality of the situation.  And since they have used the Reserve List as a marketing tool to grow the game, through the argument of collectability, the Rule of Law keeps it that way.  
29  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Eternal Masters CONFIRMED on: February 26, 2016, 01:23:52 am
I love Magic the Gathering, I think everyone in this forum does.  What I do not like are 3000 person tournaments that take extraneous amours of time to run.  I like the fact that the Eternal Weekend gets around 800-900 people for Legacy and 400-500 people for Vintage, and is growing at a mild pace each year.  These numbers are perfect for highly competitive play, but manageable in time.  I do not wish for these high end Eternal format tournaments to become the same thing as a Standard Grand Prix.  If I wanted to play in a 3000 person tournament, I would sell my collection, buy some nice things, and play standard.  

Another fun fact, as cards have gotten more expensive, tournament attendance has increased.  Standard decks are the most expensive they have ever been, thanks $100 Baby Jace, and attendance is up.  Modern prices are through the roof, as is attendance at modern events.  Two years ago Grand Prix New Jersey came close to breaking records, Seattle last year is much less assessable so attendance was down.  Do you see a trend?  Higher prices have lead to higher attendance.  Because when people spend more money on cards, its a lot easier to justify travel expenses.  And it's also easier to justify travel expenses to a legacy tournament half way across the country when your local shop only has 10 players who play the format.  

As far as a "small batches" approach to selling power, duals, and breaking the reserve list. I call total horseshit on that.  Hasbo owns Wizards, they are a major corporation who cares about the bottom line.  Once they open up the floodgates, they won't be able to shut them off.  The game will turn into Monopoly, another Hasbro game.  

You hear all the endless and hopeless cries right now from players who don't own all the cards they want to own.  Magnify it by 10000 if they do a small reprint of reserve list cards.  If those people had hope, it will only grow louder and louder.  It would only be a small matter of time before no one buys another standard card ever again.  GG everyone loses.

Why buy a booster draft, when everyone and their mother has a power cube?  Seriously it's game over.  I'd guarantee you would stop caring, and wonder why you've wasted all this time, money, thought, and energy on something that's as worthless as Monopoly money. 
30  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Reserve List Card Spike? on: February 25, 2016, 04:47:49 pm
I had most of the cards I wanted, but it did force me to buy 5 English Chains of Mephistopheles (I kept finding them for $250 so I kept buying) and an English the Abyss.

I've always loved the Abyss and found a nice affinity list in Legacy that runs 4 Mox Opal and 3 Vault of Whispers.  With the rise of creature based decks in Legacy (Eldrazi, Death and Taxes, Delver), I'm getting a hard-on just thinking about windmill slamming that card onto the table.  

Oh yeah, and it's an old school card.  


Quote
The reserved list prices for *normal* cards like Metalworker and Cradle can only increase if there is really a growth in the player base. This would happen if they brought down the reserve list, and we'd surely see an increase after an initial drop that makes the formats more accessable.

Twiedel,

I respectfully disagree with your statement.  I think if they did away with the reserve list, and reprinted blue dual lands, the diversity in the metagame would actually decrease.  I think Legacy tournamnets would consist of a bunch of players all showing up with the same blue cards in their decks because "blue is the best."  However, if they reprint cards like Trinisphere, Heritage Druid, Deathrite Shaman, etc. these fringe decks that involve Metalworker and Gaea's Cradle will show up more often by the players who cannot afford the blue dual lands.  

So, in a way, the higher the blue dual lands go the better it is for the diversity of the field.  

Things like the Eldrazi are healthy for the format.  Things like reprinting blue dual lands aren't.  
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