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1  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Westvale Abbey/Ormedhahl, Profane Price on: March 18, 2016, 08:45:21 am
Except you need to sac 5 tokens, whereas Oath will kill you when you have just 1 in play.
2  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Behold he Beyond on: March 18, 2016, 08:43:52 am
tutor for lotus, yawgwill, some other goody is basically gg.  The problem with this is that for 1 less mana, you get Yawg bargain and just draw your deck (or deep enough to cantrip/tutor for what you need).
3  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Westvale Abbey/Ormedhahl, Profane Price on: March 17, 2016, 06:36:59 pm
4  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Harness the Storm on: March 16, 2016, 08:47:59 pm
This is poop in Vintage.  My Modern burn deck will LOVE this.  Modern burn is viable in that format, it just lacked CA if you got drawn out into a mid-game....problem solved!
5  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Nahiri, the Harbinger on: March 14, 2016, 10:19:39 pm
Emrakul in the new set?  Harbinger can fetch him and give haste?  How about...


Emrakul, Universe Reaper
Legendary Creature - Eldrazi

You may sacrifice 5 eldrazi instead of paying Emrakul's casting cost.
When Emrakul Enters the battlefield from anywhere, destroy all permanents your opponents control.
If Emrakul would go to the graveyard from anywhere, put him into your hand and all opponents discard their hands.

Flying, Trample, Protection from everything.


That would be awesome! Smile
6  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Thing In The Ice on: March 12, 2016, 10:45:56 pm
What creatures does this play nicely with besides Snapcaster?

Myth Realized
other Horrors, namely, Revoker

I'm just trying to imagine what kind of deck would want this (or how you build around it)...

Right now a Gush shell seems pretty easy to drop in. 4 TITI, 4 Snapcaster, 2 Dack, 1 Clique, 4 bolt, 12 counters, 18 mana sources, and the rest cantrips/Gush

But is this really better than Pyromancer/Delver? or Mentor? Perhaps better in the mirror but you get blown out by Abrupt Decay or Swords.

The card is decent but I don't see it having the same impact on Vintage as Pyromancer/Mentor.

Spellskite is also a horror and saves your TiTI.
7  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Brain in a Bottle on: March 12, 2016, 10:43:51 pm
that ruling is enough for me to start a mini buyout of beck//call.  Some of the pros showed up with beck//call in elves at GP Detroit and made it deep into day 2.  

Already bought them all Smile
8  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Thing In The Ice on: March 07, 2016, 06:47:24 pm
I love that this guy is blue.  Would have been too easy to make this BGR like expected.  WotC threw us a curveball here.  It's pitchable to FoW.  Now not only does U have bounce, counters, and CA, it also gets huge cheap bodies!  Might as well just stock up on islands now and use the BGRW crap for kindling. All we need now is blue lightning bolt and blue dark ritual, and all will be perfect.
9  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: - New Direction? on: March 06, 2016, 01:04:28 am
I would like, and think there really needs to be, a forum/section for Legacy and Modern. Right now there is just an "other format" thread that is basically Type 4 and janky stuff. The one "Legacy Thread" isn't really as good or as used as the Vintage related threads.  I know this is predominantly a "Vintage forum", but hear me out...

I love Modern, perhaps more so than Vintage at this point. However, I still play Vintage.  On occasion, the Vintage itch occurs, and I get Modern buddies to pilot one of my Vintage decks. They know much about Modern, but little about Vintage.  There have been many threads about "how to grow Vintage" on TMD, and the sorry excuse for a local scene is perhaps the biggest factor in my migration to Modern. In these "grow a scene" threads, a recurring comment is to target Legacy players. They have the duals and forces and are a few big purchases away from Vintage. Well, Modern is actually not that far off. Yes, you need the duals, wastes, forces that are in Legacy and then more to hop into Vintage, but you can make some decent Vintage hatebear decks with Modern cards plus a few duals and such. But, Modern is a close step away from Legacy, and Legacy is a hop away from Vintage.  It follows that Modern players could climb the ladder into Vintage, even if a stop over in Legacyland comes first.  Unfortunately, Modern and Legacy players have some misconceptions about Vintage and an unfamiliarity with the format.  Adding threads dedicated to these formats adds exposure.

If Modern and Legacy players start coming to TMD to discuss their format, they're more likely to poke around Vintage threads just because.  When they see the decks being discussed, the strategies used, and the general happenings of the format, they are more likely to become more familiar and intrigued. It passively grows every Vintage scene. When a Modern player notices a Vintage delver thread and they check it out, a new Vintage player might be born. Similarly, many Vintage players like other formats as well - why not let them discuss all the formats they enjoy in one place? If we want TMD to grow, it behooves us to include players of all eternal formats in the discussions (or at least visibility of the discussions by proximity). Vintage players might also find other formats they enjoy.  Tired of Workshops, Bazaars, and FoW peeing in your coffee?  Take a look at Modern for a while. Want a bit more explosion than a turn 2 tarmogoyf? Give Vintage a look.  See how that works?

Beyond personally liking a Modern forum, it will grow involvement in Vintage. Users here typically are friends in some capacity.  Maybe the guys that run a Legacy tourney want to attract some friends that are on TMD, so they hold a Vintage side event.  It just stands to help out everyone.

Other than that main suggestion, the only other thing I got is to be a bit more slack on trolling.  Flaming is hurtful, but trolling is just a bit of good ol' fun.  I love me some trolling. Smile
10  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: (SOI) Heir of Falkenrath on: March 04, 2016, 11:54:48 am
Twice the cost of delver, costs 2 cards to make a 3/2, can't be pitched to force...

Move along, nothing to see here.
11  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Eternal Masters CONFIRMED on: February 18, 2016, 11:48:11 pm
I could see dual lands being rebranded and printed in some fashion - scry, whatever.  Moxen and lotus, no way.  Then, even restricted, you double the amount of moxen/loti in your deck and that would accelerate formats too much.  WotC likes games to advance beyond turn 3.  I could MAYBE see a colorless mox, with all this eldrazi stuff now.  0-tap for a colorless.  That adds a tinge of power to already powered decks, but it's as close as you can get to reprinting a mox without being flat out busted.  It'd have to be commander too, otherwise, you'd break standard and modern.
12  Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: UB Standing Depths on: February 07, 2016, 11:24:03 pm
Love depths.  A bit saddened you resorted to playing blue, but congrats anyway Smile
13  Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: Merfolk on: February 06, 2016, 11:12:52 pm
I still suggest 2-3 phantasmal image instead of a TNN and a couple Silvergils.  They are better vs MUD, Oath, Mentor, BSC...and at worst they are extra lords.  Any removal in Vintage is going to kill a creature (even bolt kills a Silvergil with 2 lords out), so the drawback of image is negligible.
14  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Play testing on Cockatrice on: February 04, 2016, 12:27:18 am
I'm Thewhitedragon69 on cockatrice...hit me up.
15  Eternal Formats / Workshop-Based Prison / Re: Shop Depths on: January 25, 2016, 08:51:50 pm
I've tried an alternate approach with the list lately, and it seems to be doing okay, but not quite where it was with 4x chalice.  One of the bbest parts of this deck was the low curve and ability to play only jet as far as moxen goes (and lotus, sol, crypt, vault).  With chalice, you could always drop it at 0 and have game vs storm and slow down every other deck so you could win relatively quickly (and still be resilient). With chalice gone, though, I found storm was tough, but even blue control could have busted starts, and oath had access to mana for a T1 oath.

So, since chalice is restricted, I cut the 1-of altogether. It sucks as a 1-of if you are depending on it to stop moxen. The next best thing I could think of to stop moxen is null rod, so I'm trying a list with 4 rods. However, that means cutting maps, which was a strength of the deck.  Needless to say, the list is in flux, but here is my latest version:

3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Dark Depths
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
1 Mishra's Factory
3 Vampire Hexmage
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere
4 Tangle Wire
3 Smokestack
4 Null Rod
1 Chromatic Lantern
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Demonic Consultation
2 Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Illness in the Ranks
SB: 2 Witchbane Orb
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Razormane Masticore
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker

It adds a bit more threat for the mid-game and sacrifices a tad bit of assembling the combo, but with 4x rod, it often shuts down the opponent from puking spells into your face on turn 1. This forces a mid-game, which the deck does well at taking over.
16  Eternal Formats / Workshop-Based Prison / Re: Shop Depths on: January 24, 2016, 06:45:50 pm
Awesome!  Congrats, man!!!  Glad to see you are having continued success Smile
17  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer on: January 21, 2016, 07:53:14 pm
Geist, Jace, AoT, and Venerable Lammasu are all not played in Vintage, therefore Dragonlord Ojutai is unplayable in Vintage.  This analysis proves that Dragonlord cannot be used in the format - stop playing him immediately.

I know you're trying to force your point through humor, but it feels like it's coming at my expense.   Sad

Not meant at anyone's expense.  I just love sarcasm.  I have no dog in this fight - Seer is okay, maybe sees play, maybe won't, but I won't use him in any of my decks. I was echoing Chubby because I saw an opportunity to be funny.  I don't agree wholly with him, nor disagree wholly with you. Seeing how a card compares to others is fine...if it is virtually identical (preordain/ponder/serum visions). When something is a mashup of several effects (JTMS) or is something entirely new, it's probably best to just read the text and see where it fits, or how it can be built around/abused.

Fact is, I'll never attack any of you, as I don't think I know any of you in real life (except Cha1N5 and smenmenmenmenmnnen). As I'm sure my opinion means squat to most of you,...well...

I just try to make someone laugh (if only myself) most times, and occasionally slip in some enlightening tidbit or decklist here or there.  So, yeah...nothing personal.
18  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer on: January 21, 2016, 10:26:36 am

"Hello, I'm still seeing play."

It has WU in the cost and hexproof at times, so it's like geist of saint traft...lets you do a Jace, Architect of Thought -2 when he attacks, so it's like that Jace, and is a 5/4 flier like Venerable Lammasu.

Geist, Jace, AoT, and Venerable Lammasu are all not played in Vintage, therefore Dragonlord Ojutai is unplayable in Vintage.  This analysis proves that Dragonlord cannot be used in the format - stop playing him immediately.
19  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Is Your Current Vintage Deck Proxy Free? on: January 14, 2016, 12:49:20 pm
I have everything i want, sans blue - which is fine since I hate blue anyway.  I sold off my lotus (again), but have ruby, jet, emerald, pearl, every non-blue dual, etc. I don't have 4 bazaar or 4 workshop. So outside of the 3 decks that compose 99% of vintage, I have all the power cards. Luckily netdecking blows and I can run 0 proxy for every deck I build (except shops-depths, which requires proxying 4 shops).
20  Eternal Formats / Workshop-Based Prison / Re: Shop Depths on: January 08, 2016, 12:40:04 am
Thoughtseize would be my guess.
21  Eternal Formats / Workshop-Based Prison / Re: Shop Depths on: January 05, 2016, 08:10:15 pm
One thing to take note, Illness makes Marit Lage a 19/19, not very relevant but just a precaution.
True, but rare is the vintage deck that doesn't self-inflict at least ONE point of damage :p.

Fetches, TSZ, FoW, Phyrexian mana, tomb...I guess it COULD require a second swing, but the trade off for wiping out all tokens forever for 1 mana is so worth it IMO.
22  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [OGW] Hedron Alignment on: January 05, 2016, 12:54:33 pm
Doesn't bypass leyline of the void! No graveyard = no combo.
23  Eternal Formats / Workshop-Based Prison / Re: Shop Depths on: January 05, 2016, 12:49:29 pm
Cool deal.  Glad the deck is still competitive.  Nihil has been nice, Thiim :p. You'll like it.  

I actually like the idea of illness in the ranks.  Ratchet is okay, but will most likely be just a 2for1 in killing moxen. It can sweep the board of tokens once. But illness is a near-permanent solution to pyromancer, mentor, hangarback...which are all huge parts of the meta. Missteps can hit it, but hangarback (the biggest problem of the 3 token-makers) usually doesn't run misstep. And if they are missteping/FoWing my turn 1 illness, they spent that counter so maps can land. Hitting hangarback is priority #1 (they fly!), so illness looks like a winner to me!  Great suggestion!

*edit* illness also stops orchard tokens, nerfing oath until I can EoT make a marit and swing...bonus!
24  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Fire//ice vs electrolyze on: January 04, 2016, 12:06:06 pm
F/I all day long.  If you need to cast it on your turn and have a spirit out, you still won't draw and cost 1 more mana.  Tapping something is no joke (i.e. blightsteel, workshop, bazaar, golem). The 2 mana vs 3 mana is huge. Think about an opponent resolving a mentor that you counter war over on turn 1 (their turn 2 with a mox). You can play a mana and blast it for 2cmc, or you can wait a turn to electrolyze while they are untapped and have 5 monks now. Time is everything in vintage, and time often = available mana to respond.
25  Eternal Formats / Workshop-Based Prison / Re: Shop Depths on: January 01, 2016, 11:58:01 am
I haven't seen any more results, but i don't know if it's been played recently.  The deck is definitely sweet and wins. Thiim has kicked butt with it a few times.  I guess the only updates are deck changes.

Here's the latest pile I've been playing. I found the old school "stax" route is surprisingly good. The only card that's given me trouble is hangarback walker since the can sack it to stax and get a ton of tokens, which happen to fly and chump Marit. I ended up cutting missteps and spellskite altogether. It means they can handle Marit (unless I sphere them out or have chalice @1), but with 3x crucible and 1 more in the board, i just make another in a turn or's better synergy with 5 strip/waste/smokestack anyway, so it's less of a "dead" card than skite or even missteps. Gives me extra slots to max on stax too, so it tends to be more threats than any opponent can answer (except for that damn hangarback :p)

4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Dark Depths
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere
3 Tangle Wire
4 Expedition Map
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Steel Hellkite
4 Smokestack
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Phyrexian Metamorph
SB: 3 Null Rod
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
26  Eternal Formats / Other / Re: Asian Vintage Championship - Invite only tournament on: December 25, 2015, 08:44:48 pm
Less than $2500 for 1st, would barely cover the flight.  Can't make it for that reason alone.
27  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: New card-draw land on: December 17, 2015, 02:09:00 pm
People seem convinced Homeward Path is maindeck material as well, I don't, but this is no more narrow than that. Another shell to test this in is affinity shops, decks built around the lower end can get hellbent very fast unless they are land flooded and you can only play so many cradles. Skullclamp or Slate are probably better draw engines there, but in terms of running your hand out affinity can do that very well.

Homeward Path is maindeck material in a meta where you expect a lot of Dack.  If you know Dack will be hitting the board at some time, Path is great.  THIS card needs 4 mana to draw a card (if you are hellbent), adds less mana and utility than any other land in the deck, costs a land drop, and can't come online before turn 4 at BEST (you are not going to have 0 cards, +3 nonshop mana, 1 of which NOT being a mox before then in MOST games).  How is this better than playing another factory, tomb, cavern, or whatever in that land slot?  Hell, play Staff of Nin and at least get some extra juice from the card.  Coming into play by turn 2-3, drawing a FREE card a turn no matter your hand size, and pinging for 1 seems a LOT better than what this card can do.

This card is crap.
28  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: New card-draw land on: December 16, 2015, 08:57:45 pm
Drawing a card for 3 mana on a land -- recurrable! -- is busted.  B-U-S-T-E-D.  Sure, the condition is worse than Library of Alexandria, and it costs more, but this thing is still amazing.  I would be surprised if we don't see this card in Shops and even singletons floating around in mono- and two- color decks regularly in the future.

It's 4 mana...the land taps itself.  We already have Jayemdae Tome, Fools Tome, Browse, etc.  All just as easy or harder to remove than a non-basic land.
29  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [OGW] Crumbling Vestage on: December 15, 2015, 05:36:25 pm
As for its playability in Modern Amulet, maybe Nick can make a forum for you and The White Dragon to discuss such issues...

That would be awesome.  Then we'd have more things to talk about other than "How mentor decks can fight storm" or "what sideboard slots are best vs Workshop and Dredge" know, like every other vintage thread.
30  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [OGW] Wastes: Barry's Land is REAL? on: December 12, 2015, 09:42:37 pm
Actually no, you can't use Cavern that way since if you add C to your pool with it, you're doing that with Cavern  first ability. You can't add C with the second ability since it's not a color.

Oh and, officially, C is the right short for <>. It's a shame since now it will be confusing to distinguish actual C mana from CC (abv for casting cost) in forum discussions...

You can use Cavern to make Eldrazi or whatever uncounterable.  Example Kozilek...8<><>.  You just pay the part 8 with the mana made by cavern. If you couldn't, then you also couldn't use cavern to cast uncounterable golem (LSG), which people do all the time.  
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