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121  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Revival of Survival on: July 31, 2015, 06:33:00 pm
The trouble with survival is that its plan B also involves getting critters into play from the grave - i.e. vengevine, welder, etc.  So whereas it, in theory, gets around hate that hits the enchantment (cage, decay, enchant destruction, priest), the same spells that nerf oath nerf this decks plan A AND B.  I suppose you could tutor up some critter that removes the hate card, but that's pretty weak.  I ran a fun version with gilded drakes and such at one point, but it's just not good enough and the strategy is flat out worse than oath.
122  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Amount of Games Required For an Effective Testing Experience on: July 31, 2015, 12:30:59 am
As a rough rule of thumb, I'd say (given your deck is as ironed out as you want it pre-tourney) 100 games per matchup to get a decent understanding of the way the matchup plays out in general (effective strategies, problematic cards, etc.).
123  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORG]Jace,Vryn's Prodigy//Jace, Telepath Unbound on: July 28, 2015, 07:36:57 pm
I wonder - with delve a thing now and gush being a 4-of...would merfolk looter be playable?  Sure, he doesn't flip, but he attacks/blocks for damage if needed.  Jace's abilities are really awful except for the flashback.  You can reuse his flashback, but can no longer loot after he flips which seems to be decent due to delve and gush.  Could looters/dack/new jace make for some crazy mill/welder deck?
124  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Magic Origins Prerelease Options on: July 10, 2015, 10:40:49 pm
If you want to go BG, you are likely in elves.  Great elves in the set, but not enough to make a deck.  Blue gives you day's undoing and other nasty things, which might just be enough.  DU is crazy good.

Besides, the blue in this set has card draw, good sweepers, quality counter spells (by Standard standards), and some sick critters (like the morphling guy).  Jace's sanctum could be good too.  Thopter Spy Network is a win con on it's own and good draw. 

Goblin piledriver is good, but no other goblins in the set!

Green is the only color that even comes close and only because of Managorger Hydra and terrastomper (in an elfy ramp deck) or straight on elves.  But I think if you are monocolor, blue is the way to go.
125  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Magic Origins Prerelease Options on: July 10, 2015, 06:49:32 pm
Blue....because blue is the best color of all time, hands down.
126  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORI] Abbot of Keral Keep on: July 04, 2015, 02:33:41 am
R
5/5
Changeling
When this ETB, exile the top 20 cards and cast all of them without paying their costs.

I think now that we've gotten into Christmasland, this version trumps them all.

Let's look at what the card IS and not what we wished it could be.  I think it is playable in modern burn, and that's all.  It's probably not even good in modern burn.  It is bunk for vintage.  I highly doubt they print any crazy version that has been discussed so far, and it's a bit beyond the point at this juncture, isn't it?
127  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORG] Orbs of Warding on: July 03, 2015, 07:39:46 pm
When they print a 3 mana orb that gives shroud (the drawback i imagine, since it's worse than hexproof), I'll be happy. I'd even be cool with a 2 or 3 mana orb that pings you for 1 life on your upkeep or something.
128  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORG] Ghirapur Aether Grid on: July 03, 2015, 07:38:14 pm
And against rod, your moxen make no mana....so its not easy for shops to get 2R without moxen and with thalia making it cost more.

I would imagine against hatebears you would want to counter or remove anything early that had a sphere effect with a bolt or whatever and then land this. Once this is in play the deck basically wins on the back of it, you just have to prevent anything that can remove it from hitting the table.

I think the deck would just use an extraordinary amount of counter magic and card draw with the moxen and just try to land this later on as a win con. Its a slow wincon but it has so much utility. I cannot imagine a deck like that not also running tinker blightsteel vault key anyway, so this just fits a role.

Also, a deck with that many artifacts can likely run thoughtcast and reliably expect to cast it for 1.

I thought the "against null rod hate bears" was as a SHOPS sb card.  A non-shops card isn't going to have 4 artifacts in play,  You can ping thalia, maybe, but nothing else. And if you are tinkering up blightsteel or countering thalia/rods in the first place, why would you even need this?
129  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORG] Ghirapur Aether Grid on: July 03, 2015, 07:08:53 pm
And against rod, your moxen make no mana....so its not easy for shops to get 2R without moxen and with thalia making it cost more.
130  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORI] Artificer's Epiphany on: July 01, 2015, 08:02:52 pm
If you are playing blue (esp g 2/3), unless your kill is BSC, I doubt you'll run in to a hurks.  The bigger issue I think is in matches vs shops where a chalice @0 has your hand stuffed with useless bling.  I think the card plays situationally different enough to where it's worth running depending on your game plan.  in delver, it's most likely better here than thirst (but AR, BS, Ponder, Preordain, gush, TC and DTT are even better)
131  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORI] Artificer's Epiphany on: July 01, 2015, 03:10:17 pm
Considering you want to PLAY your solomoxcrypt for mana, it is MUCH more likely you'll have an artifact in play than in your hand, making this a +1 where thirst will often be a plus 0 (though filtering 1 card deeper).
132  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORI] Day's Undoing on: June 28, 2015, 05:32:45 pm
I would not be shocked to see vintage affinity get nutty with 5x timetwister and 4x FoW, ancestral, walk...I know hurkyl's is a thing and shops are a challenge, but it's just damn fast in all formats, and especially Vintage with solomoxcrypt.  I could see turn 2/3 kills with disruption happening a good amount.
133  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Gold border legalization article on: June 27, 2015, 06:04:02 pm
It's because they look real.  It would increase the supply of legal cards and thus (hopefully) drop the price of REAL cards.  Then more folks would buy up the real cards after a price dip.  The prices would then inflate again once the supply dried up again, but then you'd have dozens more people invested in Vintage (unless speculators/collectors buy them up first after a price dip).

The goal is to get prices down and more players in.  Sharpieing up a deck means people can test the waters and bail without a second thought.  Once people pay money for vintage cards (real or CE), they are less likely to abandon it.
134  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORG] Vryn Wingmare on: June 27, 2015, 12:51:44 pm
This deck so should have cost 1W.  You just replace Thalia's first strike with flying.  As is, I doubt it will see play.  I guess not being legendary makes it cost 1 more, but that's weak to me.  A flying NON-HUMAN glowrider is not good.  Having a bad creature type is the biggest kick in the sack.
135  Eternal Formats / Workshop-Based Prison / Re: Welder Stax: A Newcomer's Approach on: June 27, 2015, 12:36:21 pm
I did change my lands around:  -2 Mountain, +1 Ancient Tomb, +1 Cavern of Souls. And creatures: -1 Goblin Welder, +1 Phyrexian Revoker. I had too many hands that could only produce a single mana on turn 1. I also figured that if Welder is the only red requirement then there's no reason not to run 4 Caverns. Speaking of, I dropped a Welder as drawing multiples (especially in the opening hand) was no good--and the additional Revoker is a great answer to Dack Fayden or just being a Stone Rain for an opponent's Mox.

I think you miss a couple points about cavern.  In a mostly colorless deck, Cavern is perfect.  It can be tough in colored-spell-running decks, especially if you aren't full on tribal, but in colorless builds, it is as useful for mana to cast everything.  The main thing is you want 4 because you WANT to cast welder as reliably as possible, and you WANT chalice @1 - as much or more as you do chalice @0.  Cavern pushes welder through chalice. Chalice@1 stops those bolts and plows from killing your golem or your revoker (allowing Dack back online).  It also stops all the ancestral/preordain/snare/etc nonsense that lets blue dig for answers and mess up your 2-drops.  Chalice@1 is critical.

Lastly, you are citing blue decks as a reason for revoker and such...welder is that much better vs blue.  Cavern is that much better vs blue.  Remember Cavern can name golem or horror in a pinch, especially your second one to hit play.  Sometimes my first cavern names golem, just because.  Turn one on the draw - shop, mox, chalice@1, thorn/sphere...turn two cavern on golem, lodestone, watch you grimace with that FoW stuck in your hand.
136  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Gold border legalization article on: June 26, 2015, 06:05:44 pm
I think if the fakes get that good it might drive the market a bit on the played stuff. I remember reading something a while back, and through personal experience (I have some fakes as old as the game itself...biggest difference is the black text wasn't over printed and they lack the middle blue piece) that the fakes don't wear properly.

In a world where the market is getting filled with indistinguishable high end fakes, a card in lesser condition, but that you can authenticate through its imperfections, might increase in value.

Nice to know my beat-to-crap power will soon be worth more than mint betas, hahaha.
137  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORG] Shaman of the Pack on: June 26, 2015, 12:10:36 pm
This is going to make Intruder Elves in Modern just stupid good now...I guess that evens out the broken Day's Undoing Affinity decks that will be popping up.  Modern is now a kill by turn 3 format - you've all been put on notice.

In Vintage, I can see elves making a splash.  It doesn't even require a second color with caverns, but if you have to add bayou, abrupt decay is a welcome addition to solve the oath problem.
138  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORI] Day's Undoing on: June 25, 2015, 11:17:16 pm
I was thinking more like:

4 Force of will
4 Days undoing
1 Timewalk
1 Timetwister
1 Ancestral Recall

4 Ensoul Artifact

5 Moxen
1 Mox opal
1 Black lotus
1 Sol ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
4 Cranial Plating

4 Signal pest
3 Vault Skirge
2 Master of Etherium
3 Memnite
2 Etched Champion
4 Ornithopter

1 Tolarian Academy
4 Seat of the synod
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Blinkmoth Nexus

SB:
4x hurkyl's recall
4x LotV
4x LoS
3x Mental Misstep
139  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORI] Day's Undoing on: June 25, 2015, 01:24:29 pm
I've been thinking about this for modern affinity (where I think it will just be stupid broken and banned), but it makes me wonder if a Vintage affinity deck is possible with this....twister, ancestral, walk, 4 of this...4 FoW...and typical affinity with moxen instead of bad things like springleaf.  Ravager wouldn't even be necessary, but cards like master of etherium, etched champion, vault skirges, ornithopter, signal pests, memnites, platings, ensoul artifact (on darksteel citadel), manlands....

Yes, vintage has fast answers, but a mono-blue build with 5+ draw 7s and TC, ancestral, walk?  Kinda scary maybe.

And before the "chalice hurts it" argument comes out, 4x FoW and being mono blue for hurkyls is a thing.
140  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORI] Day's Undoing on: June 23, 2015, 07:05:05 pm
This guy could see some potential in vintage in a wheel deck, but since twister is marginally used as is and we already have lots of draw-7 effects, i doubt it.

As mentioned, it is being talked about for modern.  U-affinity basically just did a happy dance.  Turn 1 citadel, ornithopter, mox opal, memnite, springleaf drum, cranial plating.  Turn 2 glimmervoid, equip and swing, drop this bomb...yes please. Repeat up to 4 times in a deck?  That smells broken.
141  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORG] Dark Petition on: June 23, 2015, 06:57:10 pm
For 1 more mana we get Yawgmoth's Bargain.  Once we are talking 5 mana investment, I think we need bargain level power to be playable in vintage.
142  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORI] "Mana Glutton Hydra" on: June 23, 2015, 06:54:27 pm
I could see this as a 4-of in a deck built around it.  4x this, 4x tarm, 4x confidant, 4x spellskite (no more plow problems), some toxic deluge main/sb (their horde is typically X/2 or less on their turn), 8x discard, 4x decay, a few pulse.  That's a rough shell and it gives you a bunch of turn 1/2/3 beefy monsters, cheap disruption, lots of answers, CA, and all in 2 colors.  That ain't shabby.  Tarm alone never worked, and his sidekicks are usually 3/2 or smaller.  This could be a venerable army of 5/5 or better critters by turn 4.  That's pretty bonkers, actually.  I'm buying 4.

It's going to be pretty nuts in modern.
143  Eternal Formats / Workshop-Based Prison / Re: Welder Stax: A Newcomer's Approach on: June 20, 2015, 02:58:22 pm
Cavern of Souls - dodges chalice @1, dodges misstep, can make your lodestone on turn 2 uncounterable in a pinch.  I run 4x cavern in all my red-shops builds.
144  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORG]Jace,Vryn's Prodigy//Jace, Telepath Unbound on: June 15, 2015, 10:12:35 pm
Humans and Merfolk don't make good babies. Best you can hope for is a bangin' mermaid like Ariel...instead we get this fugly gimp of a planeswalker.  Just sayin...
145  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORG]Jace,Vryn's Prodigy//Jace, Telepath Unbound on: June 14, 2015, 01:01:35 pm
There are much better versions of these PWs with no stipulations (except SLIGHTLY higher cost) already.

Well 2 mana on the Jace is the cheapest we've ever seen a planeswalker that isn't complete garbage (Tibalt was lols).  In the end I think its more comparable to snapcaster than to a planeswalker.  1 turn delayed snappy in exchange for the potential of getting a second activation, and allowing you to cycle 1 card.  Of course it would have had way more potential if flipping it was a may.

Cheapest, but the -2 mana comes at the cost of being summoning sick, boltable (JtMS can +2 off the bat), killed by creature removal (path, dismember, etc), and if you are dropping him on turn 1 or 2, you probably don't have 5 cards in the grave to flip him anyway.  Hell, he's also a dog to leyline of the void (if your main strategy suffers against leyline anyway). AND if you do actually flip him, his abilities are just terrible.  Snapcaster at least provides a 2/1 body and the element of surprise. This guy loses his body (which is pitiful anyway) and broadcasts what you plan to do anyway.

The other PW kids are just terrible too.  As I said, only in modern could the Chandra one be worth a hoot.
146  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORG]Jace,Vryn's Prodigy//Jace, Telepath Unbound on: June 14, 2015, 10:12:25 am
I really don't think any of these are playable.  Chandra at least had potential in Modern...if she were modern legal.  Even there, she'd be meh.  In vintage, none of these guys are worth a hoot.  There are much better versions of these PWs with no stipulations (except SLIGHTLY higher cost) already.
147  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Foil Goyf from GP Vegas on: June 10, 2015, 09:47:25 pm
Looks like the auction ended today. It ended up going for just under $15,000.

Anyone still think he should have drafted burst lightning?  $15K rare, or 15 cent common and a 0.5% better chance at winning...hrmm, let me think about that for one zillionth of a second.

The only reason why it sold for that much was because of all the controversy about it.  If he takes Burst Lightning and the 6th player down the line takes it and sells it, the pricing on it is easily $350-$400. So that reasoning isn't what this is about. It is on the base pricing on the card.

Still.  $400 card or 15 cent card with a 0.5% bump in win percentage.  That might make me pause for TWO zillionths of a second.
148  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Foil Goyf from GP Vegas on: June 09, 2015, 08:34:19 pm
Looks like the auction ended today. It ended up going for just under $15,000.

Anyone still think he should have drafted burst lightning?  $15K rare, or 15 cent common and a 0.5% better chance at winning...hrmm, let me think about that for one zillionth of a second.
149  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Foil Goyf from GP Vegas on: June 06, 2015, 08:23:43 pm
So in essence we are talking about a marginal improvement of 2.5% of your deck vs a few hundred dollars?  The decision is clear, and anyone saying that they would've passed has to be incredibly rich, an idiot or lying.

This really does highlight the problem of collectible vs game.  While the whole idea of collectible card game is great, and has earned Wizards piles of money, its also an unsustainable model.  You can't completely retain the integrity of both collectibles and the game simultaneously.  We are seeing this struggle happening to a huge extent in Legacy and Vintage, but Wizards has essentially told us that collectible aspect is more important than the game in this situation by giving little to no support to these formats.  The issue of course now is that we are seeing this problem seep into formats that Wizards does want to support, Modern and Commander.  At some point they have to ask themselves what type of product are they making, collectibles or a game?

Modern Masters is an attempt to bridge that gap....it'll keep goyfs in a "reasonable" range and will support the game while collectors still stockpile the best rares.
150  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Vintage Pillars: An Updated List on: June 02, 2015, 11:10:19 pm
Shop and Bazaar are clearly 2 pillars...they define a decktype and strategy and are stupid broken 4-ofs. 

Ritual and Rod, I never saw as pillars...especially ritual.  If anything "Storm", the mechanic, was a pillar, but really only "cards" are pillars.

I'd definitely say FoW is a pillar.  Mana drain is broken and has had its ups and downs in play, but FoW is the quintessential blue card and is almost always a 4-of in any blue build.  When you think "blue" you think FoW...ever since its printing.  Mana drain had it's day, but you can't say it's an auto 4-of since its printing.  For the same reason as drain, I don't think gifts, Jace, or gush fit as pillars.  They aren't all 4 ofs and don't "define" a strategy, but enhance strategies.  All those blue decks running those cards in any number do one thing in common though...control.  And FoW is the poster boy for control.

Shop, Bazaar, FoW are the clear 3 for me.  The other pillars should be broken cards that are 4-ofs defining a clear strategy...much like the original pillars did.  Possibilities include:

Oath of druids - It's usually in a "blue" deck, but not always.  I've run it in a BG or BGW shell to much success.  It's run chalice and rod or draw and counters.  It has a variety of win cons, but it all hinges on one thing...resolving a 2 mana enchantment that wins the game ASAP.  It defines the archetype, is widely played, is a definite 4-of and is busted as hell.  I think that fits all criteria.

Cavern of Souls - I didn't pick wasteland, because a dedicated "kill all your lands" deck is really rare, and so many other cards do that better.  What wasteland does do is provide tempo and supplement other, slower strategies very well (i.e. fish and shops).  Cavern however is typically a 4-of and decks are completely built around it often.  "Humans.dec", merfolk, soldiers, etc are all examples of this.  It is a powerhouse rainbow-mana generator that totally hoses blue and dodges chalice.  Not sure if it really defines a strategy and deck type though.  Its usefulness in shops to push out welders, in bomberman, and other various decks obscure its defining-power.  It's a tough call on this.

Dark Depths - Almost always a 4-of, broken as hell in combo, and CLEARLY defines an archetype.  The issue here is that it does nothing on its own and it is fringe played at best.  For me the "I sit here with virtually no function on my own" attribute disqualifies DD as a pillar.

Standstill - This is intriguing for me.  I don't think its as much a slam dunk as Oath, but it's close.  It is a 4-of in a deck that plays it.  It is a clear archetype/strategy.  It is very powerful for what it does.  If ancestral recall were a 4-of, it would be an undisputed pillar...so this is really attractive.

If I had to nail down 5 like the original ones, they'd be: Shops, Bazaar, FoW, Oath...and "weenies" (I know, it's not a card, but Caverns doesn't seem 100% right and there's a plethora of weenie decks that all aim to beat fast through combat over incremental swarm advantage and disrupt while doing it).

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