good job

I am currently working a build for a pretty big tournament

what changes would you make to the deck now?

very good article

they need to restrict something.  Maybe its scroll, scroll made Gifts amazing and now Gush

I saw his combo decks and have some questions for him.

Please let me know

thanks

I totally agree, this is an uncommon.

I am not willing to pay 60 bucks for 4 duress.  No freckin way

got to restrict gush, its wayy too good

This post has no content and violates the rules of English grammar in several different ways. Verbal warning.

-- TAL

exactly waht I was thinking.  Sui could make a run

4xsinkhole
4xduress
4xhymn
4xThoughtseize
4xextirpate
3-4x cabal therapy

they need to restrict gush again, I mean that card is out of control

okay I finished the article and have to say it was the Nucking Futs!  I loved it

Great detail and the matchup part was great.

One quick question:  If you played that deck in the same tourney today (same meta) would you run the same list?  What would you change if not?

ok steve when I printed out the article it was 15 pages.  I have read 5 so far and its a great, extremely detailed article.  Great job and great info.

I will post more later.

TPS isnt as typical here as it is over there.

I will count out the clamp until it works in US' Type 1 scene

my suggestions are run brassmans list from gencon with these minor changes -1 merchant scroll and -1 EE, +1 duress and +1 mox monkey

I think his build with these tweaks seems to own most decks.

Thanks Steve for all of your great work with keeping type 1 going as well as this very important site.

I think everything will be fine.  The site works great why would Pete want to change that.  Who knows maybe now we can get more vintage articles on starcity as well as more appeal to TMD. 

Best wishes Steve

when testing how have you all found flame to be?  What I mean when do you cast it?  How does that deck play differently than the belcher version?

I think gifts is still a great deck and it just needs more premier players to play with it.

on a side note Dizzle I like how you used my quote for your tag.  that rocks

I think cunnig wish is a mistake.  Also the belcher kill does seem to be the best secondary kill.

I use to play with the tendrils kill but after more and more testing I have found belcher can pull games out that a tendrils wouldnt be possible.

I would use brassman's list from gencon maybe drop a scroll for a duress or a monkey.  that seems to be the best deck right now.

I would like to learn how to work around chalice.  I heard you won over chalice at 0 and 1.  Teach us Dizzle, teach us all

same list?  holy crap.  I didnt think the mana base was good enough to handle all those stax decks

we all are looking forward to this.

great job man.  it further proves you are the best combo player in the world.

how did steve do?
What was the highest placing gifts deck?

this discussion is crap.  close this.

If you ban will you will end vintage.  The number of vintage players would plumet as well as the price of power.

I do like your points and I agree the deck isnt finished.

But here is where we disagree:  The point in Magic is to win.  If you deal 20 points of damage to your opponents and they die you win.  If this takes 2 turns or 5 turns you still win.  It doesnt matter if you have board position in the end it just matters who won.

do you like the 2 tfk, 2 scrolls, and 3 gifts build?

how many non mana artifacts are you running?

can I get a list?

I did try that for a while but decided gifts was better than thirst.  This weekend I am trying 2 tfk, 2 merchant, and 4 gifts.  Just to see how it does.

this is because I play gifts.  I dont play other type 1 decks (CS a couple times) so why not talk about something you know?

I agree with the oath gifts but I think meandeck gifts and brassmans gifts should do great

7) Which version of Gifts will top 8 at chicago?

8) will gifts win chicago?

why belch 3 or 4 turns for the kill when you can tendrils in one turn?  Or tinker for DSC and kill in two turns?

I dont see why you would want to belch over multiple turns, isnt the point to win?  Well if you are giving them more turns they are more likely to top deck an answer.

I agree after Chicago we will know alot more about Gift decks

I am expecting gifts to dominate and hope that happens.

I have been running meandeck gifts and my version of gifts (team sexboat gifts) for a while and I absoultely love those decks.  I have won countless tourneys (the two biggest were for 4 underground seas and for 1 box of Ravnica)

I like TFK but dont know if there is room for it.  If you run TFK you need to add in at least 3 artifacts to make the card good and thats a huge amount of cards.

Dozer I agree that first turn duress can be bad but it can also fish out a counter.

once again we will learn more on Saturday. 

It has come apparent that there are many different gift builds out there and many different views on TFK in gifts as well as Merchant Scroll.  Arguebly the best gifts deck is the Brassman’s list from the Vintage World Champs this year. Here is the link for that list
 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/vintage05/welcome

It is quiet different from Meandeck gifts (http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/9963.html).  Meandeck gifts is known for having one hell of a mana base and packing up to 3 misdirections main.  Another argument over these two decks are whether the tendrils kill or the belcher kill is better.  Just last week Meandeck GOAT was unleashed by Randy Buelher (without Meandeck's permission).  The mana base is very scarey but the deck appears to be extremely aggro.  Here is the list he released http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/10640.html

I just played in a type 1 tourney for a box of Ravnica on Friday and showed up with my own version of Meandeck Gifts.  Here is the list.

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring

1 Darksteel Colossus

1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Fact Or Fiction
4 Force Of Will
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Mana Drain
3 Duress
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Vampiric Tutor   
1 Burning Wish
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Merchant Scroll
1 Recoup
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
3 Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Tundra
1 Tolarian Academy

I ended up winning the box (beating Gifts Control on the way).  I never once killed with Tendrils.  I could have but I just decided to walk and kill with DSC.  The reasons I felt I won were because of duress and merchant scroll.  Merchant scrolling for Force of Will is great and duressing instead of misdirecting had its many advantages.

The questions I have for you all are

1)   What’s better Duress or Misdirection is a gifts built deck?
2)   Does TFK have a spot in gifts deck?
3)   If it does how many?
4)   What about Merchant scroll?
5)   Is GOAT worth the risk of the mana base?
6)   Tendrils or Belcher for the kill?

All of these are valid questions and look forward to your input

I like your points and I have been testing trying to figure out if the mana base is worth it.

I love basics this is why I love MDGifts so much its basically a mono blue deck.

This list can help us think if cards in MDGifts can be cut.  For example what if we moved gifts more towards this and brassmans.  here is what I mean.  We drop the misdirections for duress.  We can then add darkblast to the board.  Put some more seas in the deck.

it sounds like a good idea but I dont know