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61  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: GenCon Top8 with commentary from Knut on: August 30, 2005, 06:49:26 am
it kinda sucks how little coverage they give our "world championships" given the support for other formats.  then again, this was mostly the "people who went to gencon" championships anyway.

Hale


 A total lack of video coverage was rather dissapointing.


I agree with you both.

Another thing, I wish Knut would have had more of an indepth tourney report.  It seemed very short and I was hoping for a big ass one.

They should have had pictures of the finals, videos, and other great stuff.

Oh well it just further proves Wizards couldn't care less about type 1.
62  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [DECK] AC/DC on: August 28, 2005, 09:22:05 am
3x Thoughtcast? Don't you guys play Mana Drain over there? Why did you swap the Whispers for those? Sure they pitch to FoW, but you have to play crappy cards like artifact lands to make them worth it Sad

thoughtcast is one blue draw two cards with this deck.  this is why he is running thoughtcast. 

Test the deck you will see it works.
63  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Gencon report on SCG on: August 25, 2005, 03:33:08 pm
great report.

Good job taken Dragoon to fourth.  Any changes you would make to the deck?
64  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Premium Article] Meandeck Gifts on: August 24, 2005, 06:37:25 pm
where/when you be posting your report? I as well as others are waiting so patiently.
65  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: The evolution of Meandeck Gifts on: August 24, 2005, 06:33:26 pm
Quote
When a deck is this tight, changing 5 cards is an evolution.

When a deck sees is born not more than a month ago, talking about evolution is nitpicking and nothing more.


Maxx

dont you feel the deck has changed?  I was just wondering about other changes people have made.  Are you running meandeck gifts?  If so is it the same build as the one in Steve's first article?
66  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: The evolution of Meandeck Gifts on: August 24, 2005, 08:15:29 am
@Whatever Works, everyone agrees that Steve's original 4 Fetch/6 Dual configuration is wrong, and most players run 6 Fetch/4 Dual.  Also, 3 Misdirection is often viewed as too many.  When a deck is this tight, changing 5 cards is an evolution.

I agree totally and that is what I was trying to get at.  Plus there could be other major changes made in one metagame but not known by others and this subject is to help with all of that.

67  Eternal Formats / Creative / The evolution of Meandeck Gifts on: August 23, 2005, 09:06:44 pm
On June 28th Steve Menendian unleashed Meandeck Gifts on the world.  He took Gifts from a Belcher deck to a tendrils/DSC deck.  From my point of view these changes have shaken up the type 1 scene.  The deck list in that first aticle (http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/9963.html) was the following:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

Artifact Creatures
1 Darksteel Colossus

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Fact Or Fiction
4 Force Of Will
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Mana Drain
3 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rebuild
1 Vampiric Tutor

Sorceries
1 Burning Wish
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Merchant Scroll
1 Recoup
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Lands
3 Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Snow-covered Island

Then Steve went over his sideboard:
 2 Rack and Ruin
1 Rebuild
3 Pithing Needle
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Eye of Nowhere
2 Pyroclasm
2 Old Man of the Sea
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast

This deck turned out to be a very broken one.  Many players picked up the deck and understood how broken it was.  It took all prior gifts deck and made them less then optimal. 

Next Steve had a great interview with Randy Buehler (http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/10179.html).  In that aricle Randy explained how he ran Gifts to win a Beta Mox Pearl.  He also explained how his deck changed (maybe to the better or maybe not).  The biggest difference was taking out two Merchant Scrolls for two Inpulse.  The deck made the gifts deck evolve into a bigger monster.  Here is the deck Randy ran to win the Mox:

5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
5 Fetchlands
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Tolarian Academy

4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Brainstorm
2 Merchant Scroll
2 Impulse
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Burning Wish
1 Recoup
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Rebuild
1 Echoing Truth
1 Darksteel Colossus
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection

Side:
3 Duress
2 Stifle
2 Pyroclasm
1 Old Man of the Sea
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Pithing Needle
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Tendrils of Agony

I have heard of other slight changes in this deck and I was wondering what changes have you made.  Currently this is my list(almost exactly the same as Randy's):
5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
6 Fetchlands
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Tolarian Academy

4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Brainstorm
2 Merchant Scroll
2 Impulse
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Burning Wish
1 Recoup
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Rebuild
1 Echoing Truth
1 Darksteel Colossus
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection

I have thought of running Mind Twist main and was wondering what all of you thoughts are.  Is vamp tutor worth running?  What about echoing truth?  Is one rebuild main enough?

Thanks all in advance.

Doyle
68  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Premium Article] Meandeck Gifts on: August 23, 2005, 07:56:50 am
The reason the deck needs Tinker/DSC is because without them both Burning Wish and Yawg. Will become purely win conditions and no longer win conditions that can double as utility or brokenness when needed.  Sometimes you just need to Will to stay in a game, perhaps just getting back a couple moxen and a Brainstorm.  It's hard to do that if you have to get the Storm to 10 to win.

Last night, playing against Stax, I resolved a large Will but I didn't have any Tutors available to find the Burning Wish.  I could have Brainstormed and Fetched and Brainstormed and Fetched until I found it, and it probably would have worked, but the safer play was to Rebuild his board then Mind Twist aways his hand.  That's a play I can't make if I have to rely on Tendrils for the kill.

Leo

whats you list look like?  Do you run mind twist main?
69  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Gifts v. Uba Stax (long matchup discussion) on: August 22, 2005, 09:57:14 am
maxx I understand you run mind twist main.  what is your list?

thanks.
70  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: GENCON? on: August 22, 2005, 12:05:43 am
Decklists for the top 8?

how did meandeck gifts do?
71  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Gifts v. Uba Stax (long matchup discussion) on: August 21, 2005, 10:42:54 am
when will you unleash your supertech?

I agree that the matchup is a hard one but it can be in favor of gifts.  I suggest duress' like a mofo and rid them out.  The fact is if you duress early and often and then follow that up with a mind twist its pretty hard not to win those games.

72  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: GENCON? on: August 21, 2005, 10:38:51 am
did meandeck gifts place?

Does anyone have deck lists for the top 8?
73  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: T8 Leiden 03-07-05 on: August 14, 2005, 12:25:49 pm
@thug

what did people sideboard against you to stop gifts?

What would you side in against tps?

thanks
74  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: FREE ARTICLE: Interview with Buehler - Want to Learn Meandeck Gifts? on: August 14, 2005, 12:12:23 pm
Maybe a search in the tournament reports? http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=23726.0

thanks, I should searched.
75  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: FREE ARTICLE: Interview with Buehler - Want to Learn Meandeck Gifts? on: August 14, 2005, 12:30:38 am
@steve:
In one of you articles on meandeck gifts you had quotes from Koen Van Der Hulst's tourney report.  Do you have that report so others can read it?

Do you think that vamp tutor or echoing truth main?

thanks in advance
76  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: It's time to have a Serious Discussion about Proxies Again on: August 13, 2005, 03:04:57 pm
Why not take the ULTIMATE unselfish approach and advocate reprints?  Regardless of whether WotC will or won't - that's not the point of what I'm saying.

I'm saying that if you want Vintage to grow regardless of the damage to your investment, and were serious about your commitment, then you would have no problem with Wizards reprinting dual lands, power, and some of the high-dollar cards.
And I practice what I preach - with all the money I've sunk into buying Moxen and blue power, I would rejoice at the news of reprints (my Unlimiteds would be slightly more pimp than Xth Edition).

Unfortunately, this isn't going to happen.  The game was designed with collectability in mind, and we have to overcome the errors of the past (small print runs, etc.) in order for our format to grow.


they cant reprint power.  It was something when WOTC bought magic one of the guidelines of the deal was not reprinting some cards/sets and power was included.

If they simply allow collector's edition cards, as long as they are in colored sleeves, we would solve a lot of these problems.

77  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Premium Article] Meandeck Gifts on: August 09, 2005, 05:45:19 pm
does anyone else not kill with tendrils?

I honestly have only won with tendrils once.  I usually cast merchant scroll turn 1-2 for mystical then tinker off the mystical and just rid that huge 12/12 for the gold.

This last weekend I averaged a turn 3 tinker which is pretty good.  Combined with walk, recoup, and burning wish why wouldnt you play this as aggro combo?
78  Eternal Formats / Creative / help with meandeck gifts on: August 09, 2005, 12:33:31 pm
I have been experimenting with Meandeck gifts but my metagame is pretty weak. ¬ I win most tourneys but I plan on going to a bigger city in 2 weeks for a huge tourney. ¬ I have some questions about the deck and hate so please help.

If you have ran meandeck gifts what kind of hate did your oponents use against you? What did you do for mirror matches?

What does everyones board look like?

How have you changed the main deck?

Thanks for all of your responses in advance. ¬ Thanks.
79  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: FREE ARTICLE: Interview with Buehler - Want to Learn Meandeck Gifts? on: August 07, 2005, 10:37:02 am
Couple questions about the article, Chicago, and Gifts

1) I agree we have less assholes in type 1 but I think that is because of *most* of the tourneys have small prizes.  I would say that there are more asshole players at power tourneys then at a regular tourney.  But if the asshole player is just following the rules are they really an asshole?   this does not apply to cheating with therapy or moving the game back cuz that is just wrong.  Vintage has a great name for itself.  The worst thing anyone says about vintage is the players bitch about ristrictions thats a whole lot better then "Mike Long cheapted me out of thousands of dollars"  Sad. Wouldnt you agree?

2)Does anyone know how many meandeck gifts were at Chicago?  If you ran it what kind of hate did they use against you?  What did you do for mirror matches?

3) Now that I have been playing with gifts I am running duress in the board (have been running 3 for about 2 weeks) but I was wondering what does everyone elses board look like?  How have you changed the main deck?  I am still loving 4 scrolls main deck against control so I am keep it that way. 

Thanks for all of your responses in advance as I am looking for feedback from any player.   :lol: Thanks.
80  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: What happened to UR landstill on: August 07, 2005, 10:23:28 am
I use to play UR landstill but I put it away for better decks.  Plus UR is worse then UW because against oath your burn means shit but swords well that flat out wins.
81  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Premium Article] Meandeck Gifts on: August 05, 2005, 06:32:01 am
I don't want to appear pedant or stupidly blatant, but there are plenty of ways to tweak the deck with minor changes to make room for CoW+Strips and play it even in the MG's configuration

Gifts for [card]Tinker[/card], [card]Stripmine[/card], [card]Demonic Tutor[/card], [card]Recoup[/card] and you would have at least two ways to go around counters and Tinker up your CoW with the Strip in the grave as well.

Add [card]Trash for Treasure[/card] in the deck and you would have far more combinations to achieve this slow lock without playing 4 Welders and 4 TFKs

Example. [card]Crucible of the Worlds[/card],[card]Stripmine[/card],[card]Trash for Treasure[/card][card]Recoup[/card]

From my point of view, the possiblity of being able to go with this "lock" is intriguing even if a bit overkill.

While I would not play this routing in my Gifts.dec ( the one with some Duresses and more Drawers ), I would think that a single CoW and a Single Stripmine can be added to the Steve's build without any problems. Cut Mis-D#3 for CoW and Fetch#6 or one of the worst mana accelerations for the Stripmine and you would have this deck ready to Strip all the opponent's lands as well as ready to win in other ways.




MaxxMatt

why would one ever tinker for COW?  Why not go get slaver, DSC, Platz, etc?
82  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: FREE ARTICLE: Interview with Buehler - Want to Learn Meandeck Gifts? on: August 04, 2005, 07:19:10 pm
first off great article.

I liked what he said about duress.  I was running 3 duress in the board (due to combo) and they worked great.  I wonder if duress instead of drains could make the deck better?  thoughts?

I also liked the idea of 2 impulse.  it helps make the deck be consistent
83  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: The Perfect Storm: A Primer on: August 03, 2005, 11:19:35 pm
I am currently running a deck that I call gifted tps.  I won 3 tourneys in a row with this deck.  When it started it had drains but I dropped the drains for duress.  I am only allowed 4 proxies so here is the list.

3 island
4 underground sea
5 fetch
1 volcanic
1 academy
1 mox diamond
1 mox ruby
1 mox pearl
1 mox jet (Proxy)
1 mox sapphire (Proxy)
1 lotus petal
1 black lotus (Proxy)
1 mana crypt
1 mana vault
1 sol ring
4 dark rituals
4 duress
4 FOW
2 gifts
1 Time spiral
4 brainstorm
1 ancestral recall (Proxy)
1 hurkyls recall
1 echoing truth
1 recoup
1 burning wish
1 tendrils
1 tinker
1 DSC
1 memory jar
1 will
1 bargin
1 necro
1 time twister
1 frantic search
1 demonic tutor
1 vampiric tutor
1 mystical tutor
1 minds desire

I think this deck is a pretty good deck (as the results show).  I ask that fellow TPS players give it a try and see what ya think.  Thoughts on the deck?
84  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: The Perfect Storm: A Primer on: August 02, 2005, 03:39:50 pm

THANKS!!
85  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Uba Stax on: August 01, 2005, 05:57:13 am
I am not arguing that uba stax isnt good but I do feel there are some major bangwagon jumpers right now.  the deck wins one tourney and suddenly its the best deck out there.  Its a solid deck that had the right meta game choices.  Congrats for the win and making the right build but lets not say its the best when its only won one tourney.
86  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: The Perfect Storm: A Primer on: July 31, 2005, 02:45:59 pm
I still dont understand why this deck isnt getting more play here in the states.

What is everyones opinion on Timespiral?

How many gifts should be ran in this deck?

What do you gifts for usually?

thanks.
87  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: The Perfect Storm: A Primer on: July 28, 2005, 05:53:50 pm
good points.  what do you think about dropping wheel for recoup?  it makes gifts way better.
88  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: The Perfect Storm: A Primer on: July 27, 2005, 07:14:35 am
negator
what do you think about running 2 gifts main?  I am running a tps deck (until I get my gifted tps working) that runs red just for recoup and 1 burning wish.  I am running w/o drains of course and its a lot like your list.

I agree with you about DSC.  with this deck there are some expensive casting cards and taking out DSC will help with that.

With my list right now I am running 1 volcanic island instead of a swamp.  I suggest trying it because gifting for recoup, will, lotus, and recall are extremely broken.

Finally do you have anything you want to up date on with your primer?


With your list, you wanna go...

tinker Colossus, Time Walk, recoup Time walk, take two turns to attack for 22 right?

no thats meandeck.  I want to go will, broken , draw 7, tendrils.  or minds desire for a lot and win
89  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: The Perfect Storm: A Primer on: July 26, 2005, 10:39:26 pm
negator
what do you think about running 2 gifts main?  I am running a tps deck (until I get my gifted tps working) that runs red just for recoup and 1 burning wish.  I am running w/o drains of course and its a lot like your list.

I agree with you about DSC.  with this deck there are some expensive casting cards and taking out DSC will help with that.

With my list right now I am running 1 volcanic island instead of a swamp.  I suggest trying it because gifting for recoup, will, lotus, and recall are extremely broken.

Finally do you have anything you want to up date on with your primer?
90  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: How Meandeck Tendrils deals with Force of Will on: July 25, 2005, 10:49:26 am
I've been goldfishing some 25 games with this deck after recently reading this thread. (took some time off from magic so this one kinda slipped passed me) My initial thougts are very positive. Thanks for the article, Saucemaster.

I really like the way this deck walks the edge all of the time. The one for one theory is so beautiful I'm having a hard time not crying of joy.

A tiny little question; I can see the importance of having¬  a low land count in order not to draw into too many of them so that the chain of spells won't be disupted. It's just the exact configuration of 2 duals and a single fetch that I don't quite get. Could someone explain why the Delta is in there, (instead of another cantrip for instance) why there aren't two, and why Tolarians Acadamy was left out.

I can see using academy instead of the fetch but I would rather thin the deck with fetch.  Fetch helps brainstorm as well.  And you cant land grant academy. 
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