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1  Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: Why play Bomberman? (NE US) on: March 10, 2016, 12:38:42 pm
Have you considered Tasigur for that kill since you are in Esper?
2  Eternal Formats / Bazaar-Based Decks / Re: Dredge in 2016 on: February 15, 2016, 01:46:21 pm
Id like to ask you guys how you feel about using Unmask vs leyline of the void in the current meta. I like Unmask a lot against the blue decks and it can be useful game 3 vs shops but I'm just looking to see what other people think about it. Thoughts?

I would use them both together. After playing against the mirror in the last two events I've played, I'd say it's very much needed. Unmask is great.

Sullivan has never played it. I played it as a four of with Leyline of the Void as well as Mental Misstep. I love the card. If I played Unmask in my current build it would be a 3 of as that is the only room I have.

As a full 8 or with a smaller split?
3  Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: White Trash - Post Origins on: February 15, 2016, 12:36:52 pm
I know someone who played White Trash recently at an event and he said his worst matchup is Mentor. What can this deck do to combat Mentor decks?
4  Eternal Formats / Bazaar-Based Decks / Re: Dredge in 2016 on: February 15, 2016, 12:16:04 pm
Id like to ask you guys how you feel about using Unmask vs leyline of the void in the current meta. I like Unmask a lot against the blue decks and it can be useful game 3 vs shops but I'm just looking to see what other people think about it. Thoughts?

I would use them both together. After playing against the mirror in the last two events I've played, I'd say it's very much needed. Unmask is great.
5  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer on: February 08, 2016, 02:15:08 pm
I played this list at a 17 person FNM Vintage tournament in Marietta, GA last Friday.  

I was 4-0, 9-0 in games, but went 3-1 because I showed up to the tournament 15 minutes late, played the match, and beat the guy.

Land (23)
    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x Cavern of Souls
    4x Eldrazi Temple
    1x Library of Alexandria
    1x Polluted Delta
    1x Sea Gate Wreckage
    1x Strip Mine
    2x Swamp
    1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1x Verdant Catacombs
    3x Wasteland

Artifact (9)
    1x Black Lotus
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    1x Mana Crypt
    1x Mox Emerald
    1x Mox Jet
    3x Null Rod
    1x Sol Ring

Creature (22)
    4x Bearer of Silence
    2x Blight Herder
    4x Deathrite Shaman
    4x Reality Smasher
    4x Thought-Knot Seer
    4x Wasteland Strangler

Instant (1)
    1x Vampiric Tutor

Sorcery (1)
    1x Demonic Tutor

Enchantment (4)
    4x Leyline of the Void

Sideboard (15)
    3x Chains of Mephistopheles
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    2x Dismember
    4x Grafdigger's Cage
    2x Mental Misstep
    1x Nether Void
    1x Null Rod
    1x Toxic Deluge

I only played fair decks (i.e. blue decks), missed playing Workshops.  It abused the fair lists.  Cavern on Reality Smasher (the premium planeswalker destruction card in the format) or Though-Knot Seer is just too much.  

Sea Gate Wreckage drew 3 cards one game for me.  Library of Alexandria is the ideal turn 1 play on the draw. 
[/quote/]

How were the Bearers? Also no Eye of Ugin seems wrong honestly. I'd also consider some number of Oblivion Sower, since you have main deck Leyline and Deathrite Shaman to exile more lands to get extra value out of Sower.
6  Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: Merfolk on: February 05, 2016, 02:21:31 pm
Aight so. After more testing, I got wrecked by vault/key like 8 times. I think Null Rod is needed. have to decide now if there is any way to make it so I'm still better against shops.

Null Rod is still strong against Shops. I never had an issue with Workshops when I played Merfolk. Maybe instead of Null Rod, we fit in Revokers to go with Aether Vial to hit Vault Key or other shenanigans?
7  Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: Merfolk on: February 03, 2016, 11:49:26 am
Since you don't have Null Rod, what about Jitte in the board to combat Shops, Dredge, Mentor, etc?
8  Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: Odd Oath on: January 28, 2016, 12:05:48 pm
For what its worth, Sun Titan can also bring back Serenity to wipe Workshops board every turn.
9  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: (Atlanta) Sanctioned Vintage FNM 1/8/2016 at Giga-Bites Cafe on: January 12, 2016, 02:55:36 pm
I'll check it out, I think the first match is just a warm up. We didn't have commentary or accurate (?) life until round 2. Our commentary monkey showed up late!

He activates stage with depths in play, the guy casts StP, the DD player casts Misstep, Mentor player casts Flusterstorm, then the DD player casts a second Misstep, either targeting the Flusterstorm by mistake giving him 20 extra life, or Missteping the StP, resolving in a Marit Lage.
10  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: (Atlanta) Sanctioned Vintage FNM 1/8/2016 at Giga-Bites Cafe on: January 12, 2016, 02:37:23 pm
Did I miss something or during the first game shouldn't he have either had a Marit Lage after the counter battle, or he should have had an extra 20 life?
11  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer on: January 10, 2016, 02:29:18 pm
Oh, man, youre totally right.   My bad.   Now I'm not even sure that this guy is better than Sin Collector!

I like how we lay out a line where it would be insane in modern (and also insane against Blue/storm decks in vintage), and then proceed to compare it to completely unplayable cards.  MaxCDawg logic.

Lance, be nice. Brian Kelly played Sin Collector a couple of times during his Mayor Fish days.
12  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [OGW] Natural State on: January 08, 2016, 02:37:28 pm
I have lost matches in Dredge before because of having to natures claim twice in a match and then not having enough damage to win. If Leyline of the Void was not a card I think this would actually wind up being the go to card of choice for that list, but Leyline is a card so its a no go. I am apprehensive about it seeing play in total, but the effect is vintage relevant as is the cost, i just think natures claim will typically be better but there are certainly situations.


Most Dredge lists aren't even playing Nature's Claim anymore. That tells you about this card.

You should talk to the people playing dredge against me. Seems to be a staple still.

You are lucky that your Missteps still do something. Serenity is the new card to use.
13  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [OGW] Natural State on: January 08, 2016, 12:47:48 pm
I have lost matches in Dredge before because of having to natures claim twice in a match and then not having enough damage to win. If Leyline of the Void was not a card I think this would actually wind up being the go to card of choice for that list, but Leyline is a card so its a no go. I am apprehensive about it seeing play in total, but the effect is vintage relevant as is the cost, i just think natures claim will typically be better but there are certainly situations.


Most Dredge lists aren't even playing Nature's Claim anymore. That tells you about this card.
14  Eternal Formats / Workshop-Based Prison / Re: Shop Depths on: January 05, 2016, 07:29:26 pm
One thing to take note, Illness makes Marit Lage a 19/19, not very relevant but just a precaution.
15  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: TO Report: The Players Guild: 1/2/16 on: January 03, 2016, 09:45:21 am
Great event Shawn, as always. Congrats to the Top 8. I started getting a migraine in my match against Nate and that probably caused my loss of focus to lose that match and then my following match against Sam on Delver. Good games guys. Maybe next time I play ill have better luck. Mulliganing to one twice in game ones doesn't help. Maybe it was Elesh Norns wrath for not being included...
16  Eternal Formats / Bazaar-Based Decks / Re: Dredge in 2016 on: December 31, 2015, 09:05:14 am
List looks sweet man! It's very close to mine except I ran 3 Dread Return and Targets, added Ashen Rider for utility against things like Tinker Blightsteel, Tabernacle etc. I may have to test this list out.
17  Eternal Formats / Bazaar-Based Decks / Re: Dredge 101 - A Video Primer on: December 30, 2015, 07:50:11 pm
You lose to something insane, and Misstep makes that more likely to happen. If you name Force of Will or Time Walk and see a hand of Mental Misstep, Tinker with 1 Therapy left, that Misstep is a Tinker you can't Therapy out. That's insane.

If you resolve Therapy with 1 extra Therapy, what are the outs? Mental Misstep + bomb is way more likely to occur than double bomb, both castable off 2 mana, both win the game. "Blindly guess something I'm afraid of" is 100% the right call with a single Therapy, but it's totally wrong with multiple Therapy.

Imagine instead of 2 Therapies you had 4 Therapies with your opponent on 2-3 cards. Your first card name would be something in the ballpark of Ravenous Trap, Force of Will, or their likely 4-ofs. I don't think there's any chance that your first card name is Time Walk or Tinker or anything like that. It's the same case here, just not as extreme. Your early Therapies when you have multiples are more about getting information and setting you up to strip their hand. That's exactly what naming Misstep against a small hand accomplishes.

If I blind name and miss, and see Misstep and Tinker I wont cast a second Therapy if its my only one, that's common sense, usually tinker for Blightsteel isn't even enough to beat Dredge, you chump with a Zombie and then kill them the following turn. I literally cannot fathom a circumstance where I would name Mental Misstep with a single Cabal Therapy, I can say I've never named it, and probably never will.
18  Eternal Formats / Bazaar-Based Decks / Re: Dredge 101 - A Video Primer on: December 30, 2015, 06:51:27 pm
Yeah, I think there's got to be an element of "agree to disagree" here. In the scenario I framed above I think it's 100% correct to name Misstep and if you miss blindly you just lose to topdeck land. Literally the only way you lose the game is if they get to resolve something insane, and it's within your power to make that not happen. The opponent holding the Misstep increases their odds of resolving their insane thing, and the more you protest that you would never name Misstep the more reasonable the line of holding Misstep becomes.

You just said you lose to something insane, Misstep is not insane, therefore I see no point in naming it.
19  Eternal Formats / Bazaar-Based Decks / Re: Dredge 101 - A Video Primer on: December 30, 2015, 06:18:02 pm
We will just have to agree to disagree here. Like I said, if I'm not winning that turn, I name cards that make them able to race me, honestly I'm not afraid of Ancestral Recall, because the way I see it, in order for Ancestral to be game winning from a Blue deck (not Storm) they have to literally draw Time Walk, Tinker and something else broken. When you look at it that way, it whiffs quite a bit there.

If they happen to not be on a broken Vault Key Tinker deck and instead I see Gush, Young Pyromancer, etc, then I'm extremely happy because these matchups are pretty favorable.
20  Eternal Formats / Bazaar-Based Decks / Re: Dredge 101 - A Video Primer on: December 30, 2015, 04:41:29 pm
If you would literally never name Misstep with a Therapy, then I (as a Misstep player in this hypothetical) would literally never get blown out by letting you resolve it. As a result, when you personally have exactly 2 Therapies and I have exactly 1 Misstep, I should lean pretty heavily towards letting it resolve.

I get an information advantage on your Therapies and I never get blown out - great!

(The exception being if I can make you cast both Therapies rather than only 1 in situations where I would prefer you cast both, such as when my hand is lands+Misstep)

Let me try to flesh out a situation that I think illustrates my point.

I'm a Grixis Control player (in this hypothetical) and my opponent is a known Dredge player. Let's call him Jim. Jim always plays Dredge, and when I'm paired against him I mulligan heavily in game 1 looking for fast interaction.

My eventual Turn 1 play is basic Island -> Preordain, seeing Tinker and Jace the Mind Sculptor. I put JTMS on the bottom, drawing the Tinker. I play a Mox Ruby, and pass the turn with a 3-card hand of Tinker, Mana Drain, and Mental Misstep.

My Dredge opponent (who was on the play) gets a little bit of a slow Dredge, but positions himself to cast 2 Cabal Therapy on his second turn.

He puts the first Therapy on the stack. Do you counter with Mental Misstep here? I think I would lean very heavily against countering it. If I go to 2 cards in hand Tinker will be very near the top of the list in terms of cards my opponent would name. A 2-card hand in this situation could basically only win from a Tinker, Ancestral, or some other incredible card/combination. If I have an extra card in hand my opponent is much more likely to name something else, because Tinker is restricted and his field of concern is a fair bit wider. Tinker is definitely still high on the list of cards to name, but if he names Tinker blindly whether you counter or not is really not important.

An extra item to think about is what the Dredge player names against a 3-card hand in the blind in this situation, having seen only a mulligan to 4, a basic Island, a Preordain, and a Mox Ruby. I think Time Walk, Force of Will, Black Lotus, Ancestral Recall, and then Tinker are the best options for a single Therapy, in roughly that order. I don't think Mental Misstep is anywhere near the top of the list, if you have exactly 1 Therapy.

So, using the typical "smart" play I use my Misstep to protect my Tinker and that makes it much more likely that the Tinker actually gets Therapied (probably close to 50/50 IMO). The play of waiting for the second Therapy to protect the Tinker and hoping to topdeck a mana source is vastly more likely to win the game. The counter to this is for the Dredge player to name Mental Misstep (or Force of Will) with the first Therapy, expecting to clear out any resistance and be able to resolve the second Therapy for a known card. Given how few cards the control player has, I think Misstep is a totally reasonable card to name. Force of Will + blue card + threat isn't a realistic concern (because you can beat any threat your opponent can play off 2 mana with no support), and it's extremely unlikely that they have something like Tolarian Academy + double card draw (something that could potentially win the game after you wipe out 1 known card).

If you are letting my first Therapy resolve, I would name Force of Will if I was going to win that turn since you have no Mana up (aside from Ruby) or a card that beats me quickly (Tinker is literally the only thing I can think of from a Grixis deck). So like Lance said, the fact they have a Misstep doesn't matter, either they counter the first one and I cast the second one and win anyway.
21  Eternal Formats / Bazaar-Based Decks / Re: Dredge 101 - A Video Primer on: December 29, 2015, 05:36:17 pm
I think misstep is only a relevant card to name on misstep if misstep is live to other cards in your deck. If we apply the principle of naming cards that make you lose the game I think naming misstep is only right if you think that misstep will sink you.

Exactly what I've been trying to say. Why name Misstep with Therapy when all they can counter IS Therapy....
22  Eternal Formats / Bazaar-Based Decks / Re: Dredge 101 - A Video Primer on: December 28, 2015, 05:51:47 pm
The fact that Misstep (basically) only hits Therapy is definitely relevant. That's why the premise of naming Misstep requires that you have exactly 2 Therapies.

I mean, the decks that think Misstep is so good against Dredge because they are in the mentality that Dredge plays Nature's Claim, Chain of Vapor, some removal like Darkblast etc. So when they bank on Misstep and hope it saves their Rest in Peace and Cage in play and we play a Serenity they pretty much cry.
23  Eternal Formats / Bazaar-Based Decks / Re: Dredge 101 - A Video Primer on: December 28, 2015, 05:32:26 pm
Most Dredge lists ignore Mental Misstep nowadays, having it only it Cabal Therapy, literally. I have never considered naming Mental Misstep for this reason.
24  Eternal Formats / Bazaar-Based Decks / Re: Dredge 101 - A Video Primer on: December 26, 2015, 09:50:24 pm
Great set of videos. My only objection is the lack of inclusion of Dragonlord Kolaghan. She has been a replacement for Flamekin Zealot for a majority of lists that I have seen.
25  Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Free Article] Stirring the Pot: with Mishra’s Workshop on: December 03, 2015, 02:14:23 pm
Great read Lance! Loved it!
26  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Can we answer a Mentor? on: November 29, 2015, 09:37:01 am

Seems O.K.
Even better if you control:


This definitely seems interesting.
27  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Can we answer a Mentor? on: November 16, 2015, 02:10:26 pm
Well since people are throwing out fun ideas that don't really  have a hope of working there is always Goblin Sharpshooter:
 {2} {R}
 {Tap}: deal 1 damage to target creature or player.
Goblin Sharpshooter doesn't untap during your untap step. When a creature dies, untap goblin sharpshooter.

He'd be fun and functionally he does what you want. But this is vintage. A 3CC spell that doesn't have immediate impact (or the ability to have immediate impact w/out waiting a turn to activate) just isn't going to cut it.

One card I've always been fond of that I just haven't really seen played since I came back is Echoing Truth.   Not only does it answer Mentor tokens but it also answers young pyromancer tokens and zombie tokens from bridge from  below. It doesn't answer mentor but it can slow it down and give you another few turns.  It also has the flexibility of being an anti-hate card getting rid of answers others bring in against your deck.

The problem with Echoing Truth is the same as Propaganda, but not to the degree as it, Pyroblast.

The way I have beaten mentor builds is with Elesh Norn (Dredge) but also you could just go over the top with Tendrils ir Vault Key.
28  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Can we answer a Mentor? on: November 15, 2015, 08:14:39 pm
This one can be exiled to Force of Will and costs the same as mentor but I think Verdict is better unless you don't have any white mana or never plan on getting to 4.


This one also gets Pyroblasted all day long.
29  Eternal Formats / Bazaar-Based Decks / Re: Cabal Pit vs Barbarian Ring - and other sideboard discussion on: October 16, 2015, 01:49:08 pm
I haven't adopted the Karakas tech yet, but it seems strong in theory. If only Mortuary Mire was a White land and put any permanent on top of your library....
30  Eternal Formats / Null Rod Based Aggro / Re: "Simians Mom" aka RW Death and Taxes on: October 13, 2015, 01:58:42 pm
wouldn't flamespeaker and equipment from stoneforge be amazing?

Josh has done this. It all depends on meta.
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