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1  Vintage Community Discussion / Non-Vintage / Re: Louisville GPT Top-8 decks on: September 17, 2005, 01:39:26 pm
Wow! Eight different decks in the T8 (and no Goblins); that's one wide open meta.
2  Vintage Community Discussion / Non-Vintage / Announcement: 4 Events at Dream Wizards (Rockville, MD) on: August 24, 2005, 09:43:53 am
Dream Wizards will be hosting Legacy GPTs (for the Philadelphia event) on Sept. 10 (my younger daughter's B-day, so I'll miss that one) and Oct. 2.  They are hosting additional Legacy Tournaments on Nov. 5 and Dec. 10.
Link to deck registration sheets if you need 'em:
3  Vintage Community Discussion / Non-Vintage / Re: Legacy Championships??? on: August 23, 2005, 01:15:23 pm
T is for TOOL at The Source posted:

Worlds was something like:

1. Vial Goblins
2. Sligh

Vial Goblins
U/W Landstill

U/R Landstill
U/W Landstill
Vial Goblins

$500 was:

1-2 split
Vial Goblins

Vial Goblins
U/W Landstill

Sorcerey Speed Solidarity
?? Not Sure ?? (it was running Blastoderm and Isochron Scepter) maybe some sorta 3 Deuce or Zoo deck?

There was a regular Legacy tourney on Saturday, which ObfuscateFreely won with his own twist on Goblin Sligh, but I wasn't in it so I can't give a top 8.  I think bigbear also placed with Rabid Wombat."
4  Vintage Community Discussion / Non-Vintage / Re: Announcement: July 17 in Rockville, MD on: July 14, 2005, 08:48:41 am
DCI Deck Registration Sheet

I hope to see some of you there this Sunday!
5  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Legacy gets suprise support from wizards. on: July 03, 2005, 02:04:11 pm
I predict the value of dual lands will sore.  Buy/trade for them now while they are cheap.
How much higher do you think they can go?  Revised was a reasonably sized set so the supply isn't highly limited.  Old Extended was probably more played than Legacy will be based on WotC support and it didn't drive the prices for duals through the roof.  I'm not saying I'm not glad I've already picked up my blue duals, survivals, and an extra set of FoWs, but I'm not counting on the prices getting significantly higher.
6  Vintage Community Discussion / Non-Vintage / Re: Announcement: July 17 in Rockville, MD on: July 02, 2005, 07:55:32 pm
Raven Fire, you have me to thank for convincing Dream Wizards to begin hosting Legacy Events

I sent them a convincing email and talked with Laurel in person and she said that it might happen, I told them that a lot of people were interested in it and would benefit from it being in MD rather than in the middle of nowhere which is The Lucky Frog in Annandale VA.
Unless Laurel was already "in the know" about Legacy being a GP event.  Either way, thanks for your effort!  The Lucky Frog has great people, but it sure is tiny.  Dream Wizards will be much better for hosting large scale Legacy tournaments.  Hope to see you on the 17th!
7  Vintage Community Discussion / Non-Vintage / Re: Announcement: July 17 in Rockville, MD on: June 17, 2005, 08:22:05 am
Hmmm, I could drive by here on my way home from Syracuse, any idea what kind of a drive it is from NY?
It's about 4 hours from NYC.  I'm going to talk to them tonight (when I draft) to see if they can reduce the conflict with Big Arse II.
8  Vintage Community Discussion / Non-Vintage / Announcement: July 17 in Rockville, MD on: June 13, 2005, 01:31:33 pm
From Dream Wizard's site (

Magic the Gathering:
Legacy (Type 1) Tournament
Sunday, July 17
Quality Suites Hotel in Rockville, MD.
Note: The directions to this venue are not available via MapQuest or any of the other on-line map tools, please see our directions:
Registration from 1 PM to 1:30 PM -- Play begins promptly at 1:30PM.
Legacy Constructed Event. This event will be sanctioned and use deck registration.
1st and 2nd place win 18 packs (1/2 booster box). If there are more than 18 players, additional pack prizes will be awarded!

I believe this is the first Legacy event hosted by Dream Wizards.  I know the prize structure is not so hot, but I think it will be important to demonstrate that Legacy has enough of a following in the DC area to make future events worth their time.
9  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: MOTL Temporarily Down on: June 13, 2005, 12:29:40 pm
Just informing the general community that MOTL is temporarily down due to a rather nasty server crash.
It's back up!
10  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Serious Discussion: Is Magic Dying? on: June 07, 2005, 09:18:56 am
The fact of the matter remains that the game has been steadily going downhill.  An old quote says that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
First off, this is not "The fact of the matter".  It is clearly your opinion.  There are many people who think Magic is doing just fine (or even improving) and they are entitled to their opinions just as you are to yours.  Also, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." may be a quaint cliche, but it's a terrible business model for long term success.  If businesses maintained that attitude, we'd still be using DOS (or maybe typewriters) and flying by zeppelins.  Progress, Invention, and Innovation are keys to survival rather than stagnation.  If Magic had NOT made changes, it would not still be around.  And honestly, how is winning by Test of Endurance all that different than getting whacked by a massive late game Fireball (or an early Channel-Ball)?
11  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: MOTL Temporarily Down on: June 03, 2005, 01:20:09 pm
I'm jonesing so bad for my daily MOTL fix...
12  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: How many dual lands do you own? on: May 11, 2005, 02:00:26 pm
4x the Blue Duals
4x Taiga
3x Savannah ('cause ATS is fun)
13  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Should WoTC bring back alternate card art? on: May 11, 2005, 01:53:32 pm
I find it interesting that WotC is stating this when they recently started printing Textless cards for the MPR program.  I love my Textless Oxidizes, but the picture (unlike those for Terror or Fireball) doesn't look anything like the one on the original version.  With multiple artwork, at least a new player can look at the text (if it's in a language they can read) if they don't know what the card does (and I've played against experienced people who forgot that Oxidized artifacts can't regenerate).  The DCI has now stated that they will be releasing six new textless MPR cards per block.  While I think this is great (I actually hope they make more AA cards like the DCI VMP), I'm not sure how this philosophically fits in line with not printing multiple artwork in expansion sets.
14  Vintage Community Discussion / Non-Vintage / Where Does Everyone Play? on: February 14, 2005, 01:31:24 pm
I'd like to play in the DC-Baltimore area.  Anyone know of any Legacy action in this area?
15  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Breaking Ninja of the Deep Hours on: January 13, 2005, 03:03:00 pm
Quote from: Ripcord728
So the question becomes - which one-drops are best for this job?
Flying Men and, to a lesser extent, Manta Riders come to mind as they are both on color and fly.
16  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / 2 New Betrayers cards from Inquest worth a look on: January 07, 2005, 08:32:33 am
Quote from: OptimusDeutz
We play in a format where a spell costs 0,1,2 or 3 mana or it just doesnt get played if it doesn't win the game. You can expect to have those mana costs in your deck. It may be viable in a mono-blue deck.
Taking a look at it this way, 1 and 2 cc cards are easy to come by for blue so that's not a problem.  0 is obviously tricky, but I guess you can just counter it for uu (tough early on).  3 cc is the one I'm worried about (mainly due to CoW/Trini on turn 1).  Are Intition, C Wish, BtB, TfK, and Energy Flux enough?  What other major players am I missing? (I'm sure there are some obvious ones)
17  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Buying P9 on: January 03, 2005, 02:40:29 pm
Quote from: Marton
(or trades)
If you can find a deal on MOTL, you can arrange a third party exchange through one of the mods.  That should be pretty secure.
18  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Ask Wizards, aka T1 in a Nutshell on: January 03, 2005, 01:46:01 pm
Quote from: rocknrossi
The bottom line is even if old cards are worth a ton of money wizards isn't getting that money, with other formats of playing magic people have to constantly get new cards and keep up with things they get some money.
While the secondary market doesn't generate hard revenue for WotC, it does act as an ad hoc form of advertisement.  The fact that a Black Lotus can sell for over a grand is certain to generate some interest in the game and entice new players to give the game a try (it's amazing how people are attracted to something they think can make them some money).  It also keeps customers attached to the product if they recognize that there is at least one format where their cards will maintain some play value.  Overall, supporting Vintage makes good financial sense for WotC.
19  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / U/R/G Fish Hate on: December 23, 2004, 01:39:52 pm
Quote from: bmueller
Now although Call of the Herd is good, I personally think it takes the deck in the wrong direction. Fat like CotH give the deck aggro tendencies, and I think that's a bad idea. The way I see it, Fish needs creatures that have 2 of 3 properties: disruption, evasion, and cost effeciency. CotH only meets requirement #3. Yes, it can trade with jugs all day, but Artifact Mutation is the real reason green splash Fish has a decent match against Workshop, not extra fat.
First off, CotH is a decent card (and may actually be a good card in this deck for a reason I will get into later), but it is not cost efficient.  Yes, it generates card advantage, but a 3/3 token with no abilities is hardly a bargin at 3 mana.  Phyrexian Negator and Anurid Brushhopper are examples of cost efficient creatures, not Trained Armadon.  It's even worse when it costs 4.

While CotH is a poor tempo card, the fact that it generates card advantage, however, means it should be considered for bmueller's deck.  Part of the reason Fish decks were successful was because they out drew their opponents.  The posted decklist has almost no way to generate real card advantage (other that Ancestral and Walk) since Brainstorm does not actually add cards to the hand.  Curiosity and Standstill were what allowed Fish decks to overwhelm with weenies and consistently draw into (and pay for) FoW.  While CotH doesn't provide additional draw, it does provide a little fat (and some card advantage).  Since that shores up a key weakness in Fish decks, it is worth a look.
20  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Can U/G madness Adapt to beat Oath? on: December 23, 2004, 12:24:12 pm
Quote from: savekeeper
Also, has anyone tried Daze instead of Circular Logic? While CL is great when you can cast it I often found it a little slow. CL also doesn't protect your turn 1/2 madness outlet while Daze possibly can.
I run Daze over Logic because I think that counters that don't come on-line until turn three are the suck in T1.  But I also run CoW and really try to go after my opponent's mana base to keep them in Daze range.  Old Fish habits die hard.
21  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / General Tips When Going To A Tournment on: December 08, 2004, 04:02:34 pm
Quote from: Triple_S
Remember its a social game first and foremost.  People stop playing if they don't have fun.  So don't create an atmosphere which takes the fun out of things.

Don't be a "Joy Vampire"
This is especially important in smaller events where you want newer players to become regulars.  Make sure that they enjoy having their asses handed to them!
22  Eternal Formats / Creative / U/G fish on: December 07, 2004, 02:59:24 pm
Quote from: black and blue
25 mana is very high but in the meta where I play, 85% of the people play waste/strip so I have to play many mana sources and I don't want to cut the rishadan because they are very good against 4cc, landstill and fish because 4cc. Wink
If there is so much non-basic hate, why don't you just play mono-blue?  Is it really worth adding green simply for River Boa?  Unless your sideboard is almost all green, I'm really wondering why you added the splash.
23  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Can fish come back? on: December 07, 2004, 02:47:31 pm
Quote from: PemsAura
The purpose of this article is to get any opinions as to when the meta might change enough to allow fish to compete again.
When Workshop gets restricted.  Wink
Seriously, the metagame will have to make a rather specific shift and it is impossible to predict when/if this will happen.
24  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Type One, power, reprints, and YOU! on: November 17, 2004, 01:41:39 pm
Quote from: vroman
what would be especially bitchin is full art textless reprints of some of the classic but inexpensive restricted cards. ie tinker, d.tutor, sol ring, etc.
I agree that Sol Ring would make an amazing textless card, but unfortunately WotC has stated that textless cards (at least the 5 promos through MPR) will not be permanents.  I guess the Unhinged lands are OK because standard basic lands don't have any text on them anyway.  Also, they want the textless cards to be T2 legal, so they decided against StP for the white reward card.  Crying or Very sad   At least Oxidize sees Vintage play.

Dream List of Textless Cards (T1 uncommons/commons):
Red = Lightning Bolt
Green = Regrowth
Blue = Force of Will (or Brainstorm if that's too much)
Black = Demonic Tutor
White = Swords to Plowshares

Beyond Dreamworthy = Timewalk and Ancestral Recall  :lol:
25  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Unhinged Lands! on: November 12, 2004, 12:50:13 pm
I love the artwork and the layout is fine (not quite as graceful as that of Unglued), but I wish they didn't have the horseshoe symbol (the Unglued lands/tokens didn't have the cracked egg).  I'd rather not be reminded that WotC sank to the depths of basing a set on ass jokes.
26  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Are these really 'decks to beat'? on: November 11, 2004, 03:04:28 pm
Quote from: Yokomoto
Im sorry, but me and a couple of friends had actually planned on coming up with a good Oath list. Soon as orchard came out we thought of Oath. But simply because a team came up with a list that uses different creatures i think its bullshyt they get all the credit.
It's nice that you were planning to come up with a good Oath list, but MeanDeck actually did it, playtested the hell out of it, paid their entry fees to a major event, had the guts to play an unproven deck, and then completely dominated that event.  If you don't like the name, there's an easy solution: You and your friends can go grab a couple spots in the T8 of a power event and we can all discuss Yokomoto.dec for the next month or so.

As for the original post: I'd rather see too many decks posted than too few.  Sure, there is some excess fat in that gauntlet, but some of those decks are still going to show up in less competitive tournaments.  Many environments are much slower to change than the SCG circuit or TMD events.  I guess I'm just glad they have that section because I frequently link that page for newbies who want to see the basic decks that are being played in Vintage.
27  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [DECK] Italian Gay Red Fish - looking for advice on: November 10, 2004, 08:35:06 am
Quote from: Axor_the_Superman
Your sideboard options like Bouncer, Drake, and Maze

This is the answer.

But you see oath as the new best unpowered deck? Oath wins ONLY if oaht of druids comes in play, and you can stifle, tap its creature with f/i.... Fish player doesn't lose if oath comes in play...  Razz
If you read my post, you'd see that I was pointing out that those are not viable answers because the Oath player will board in cards that make them ineffective.  And saying that Oath wins ONLY if it resolves Oath of Druids is like saying that Tog ONLY wins when it can resolve a Psycatog (yet somehow it was a dominant deck for a good chunk of time and is still being played).  Oath of Druids is cheaper than Psychatog and requires far fewer resources after it has resolved (no need to Wish for Zerk, pitch your hand, etc.).  Stifle and Fire/Ice may delay Oath (if the Oath player doesn't counter them), but don't make the problem go away.  The mana denial route is much more difficult because Oath only requires a single colored mana (as opposed to blue & black for the Tog and green for the bezerk) and is a realistic play on turn one.
28  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [DECK] Italian Gay Red Fish - looking for advice on: November 09, 2004, 08:58:10 am
Quote from: Axor_the_Superman
I think fish would be strong against oath... We could side waterfront...
But maze is better in my opinion... Cool
How is Fish strong vs. Oath?  Fish needs creatures to win (which is an advantage for Oath) and Oath wins when it resolves a 2cc Enchantment (and it has plenty of counters to force it through).  Your sideboard options like Bouncer, Drake, and Maze all blow vs. Oath's boarded Angels and BtB.  The current problem, as I see it, is that Fish is a tempo deck but it has no match for the tempo advantage of an early Akroma, etc.  Getting an 8cc finisher into play through Oath trumps the hell out of a "free" 1/1 flyer...
29  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Metagame Shifts: Debating the Future of Fish on: October 29, 2004, 07:18:14 am
Quote from: moses2k
I could imagine that it will be something mono-u with firewalker replacing lavamancer or smt like that.

Just like its called in the newer age -> "Back 2 the roots"
The idea of going back to the fish roots of the deck opens up some interesting possibilities (although probably not all that viable in a well balanced meta; I'm mainly thinking about budget players who are essentially locked into Fish builds and know that they will be facing a lot of Oath, mono-blue, and 4cc).  Rootwater Thief would certainly cause problems for Oath and mono-blue if it could get a couple swings in and Lord of Atlantis could make some of your critters unblockable by their monsterous fat (and give a bit of pump) to enable a finishing attack.  Going back to old school mono-blue Gay Fish would certainly improve the mana base if nothing else.
30  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [DECK] Italian Gay Red Fish - looking for advice on: October 27, 2004, 09:32:53 pm
Oath wasn't a problem before Forbidden Orchard decided to wreck our world.  Just beat down with man-lands and creatures that could self-destruct if an Oath was resolved (Spiketails, Lavamancers, etc.).  Now we're stuck with the lamest spirit tokens ever (why don't they fly like the spirit tokens generated by cards from previos sets?).  I'd say that Fish could start packing in the Waterfront Bouncers (and maybe Seasingers and/or Gilded Drakes), but that's worthless in games two and three (if there is a game three).  Stifle is just not going to buy enough turns to pull these games out once Oath has resolved.  It is going to have to hit their fetches and be combined with a strong attack on the opponent's mana base.  While Oath runs many more counters, they have to pay for most of them.  Fish might have a chance if it can keep the Oath player in Daze/Spiketail range.  I fear the game is probably over once the Oath player reaches four lands in play.
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