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1  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Unusual but correct plays on: February 14, 2015, 01:50:20 pm
Vampiric into Demonic
Again, a lot time ago, my cousin was playing a Storm deck and was facing a discard deck with Hypnotic Spectre threatening to make him discard his only card, Vampiric Tutor. With plenty of mana and a grave with rituals but no draw spells, his play was to Vampiric tutor into Demonic Tutor, thus not discarding to Hippie. On his turn he could Demonic into Will, replay all the mana and Demonic into Tendrils.

Even more unusual would be to do it the other way around, again to play around discard. In this case if you have less than 5 mana available to DT and Will in the same turn, you can DT for VT, then VT for Will so it's on top of your library and can't be discarded.

I've used a Demonic to grab a Vampiric before, but I wasn't dodging discard. I had a Jar out against Stax. He had a bunch of lock pieces and my only out was to have a Rebuild and some mana in the jar hand. Demonic -> Rebuild wouldn't get me there since it'd bounce my own Jar. Hence the Demonic -> Vamp -> Rebuild on top, pop Jar play.
2  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Forum Avatar Request Thread on: April 21, 2014, 08:25:03 pm
I kinda miss my old school black mage pic.

Decided to go with a newer looking black mage so it feels like I did something.

EDIT: Glorious.
3  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Beyond Dominia on: April 21, 2014, 08:17:20 pm
Beyond Dominia is too new school for me ... I'm so old I was "posting" on the dojo ...

looking back now at age 37 some of my writing is just awful ... I suppose that's why I was going to college Wink also to play Magic ...

I remember the Dojo. The last article I read there was about the split cards that had just been leaked in Invasion. Obviously R&D was out of ideas and Magic would soon be dead.
4  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Things that can't be unseen in Magic... on: June 07, 2010, 07:35:39 pm

I guess it's supposed to be a mushroom on the left there but...
5  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Favorite Final Fantasy/Other RPG on: November 22, 2009, 06:20:36 am
I have to give the nod to Chrono Trigger, but FF6 takes a very close second.

Chrono Trigger has a wonderful battle system, and was the first RPG I ever really played that didn't have the infuriating random encounter ever x number of steps deal. It also gets points for having some of the greatest music from a video game ever. Schala's Theme, Corridors of Time, Sealed Door, etc. Heck:

FF6 is a little less lighthearted and has an amazing villain. No dual techs, but everyone having a unique ability still puts it heads and shoulders above most RPGs of the period. The story is great, and the characters all have way more backstory than average.

Both games are at the top of my list of console RPGs. I recently played through Chrono Trigger again, so maybe it's time for another FF6 playthrough.

Another series that I think deserves a nod is Mario RPG/Paper Mario. Excellent series that gets way too much flak for being "kiddy."
6  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Zendikar Card Discussipn - Archive Trap on: September 11, 2009, 05:12:47 pm
Even in a dedicated deck, Mill is a terrible way to go about winning. You're trying to deplete a stat that starts at 60 instead of 20, and in doing so can further your opponent's plan.

I disagree.

60v20:  Really you need to take out like 53 cards (barring mulligans) and with 1 card taking out 13, that's almost 25% of their remaining deck.  Pretty sure red decks would run a zero-cc Lava Axe.

Opponents plan:  Another way to think about it is that the opponent, by trying for card advantage, is almost always furthering your plan as well.

Just sayin...I don't think mill is competitive in Vintage right now, but not necessarily because it is a bad win condition in the abstract.

Fair enough.

In the completely abstract milling is as viable as damage, provided the milling cards are ~2-3x as powerful, given that they're trying to deplete a resource ~2-3x as large. Historically this has not been the case. This card is probably of the power level necessary to make mill a viable strategy, but it can't do it alone. If Tarmogoyf were the only creature in existence outside of Homelands, I wouldn't consider aggro to be a particularly great way to win.

Mill cards need a dedicated deck to be worth anything. I don't believe there's enough support cards to make the archtype viable, and until there are, mill cards are worthless. Not to mention that Gaea's Blessing is probably the best bullet ever printed. It works in any deck, for no mana, and doesn't even have to be drawn. All it asks is that you keep LotV/Planar Void off the table and you can't lose.
7  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Zendikar Card Discussipn - Archive Trap on: September 11, 2009, 02:01:34 am
Brainstorm is now restricted, casting it on turn 1 is no longer likely.

Thanks for the update! Tinker is also restricted, should we not play cards that deal with it either?

I only mentioned it was restricted because you said Fetch into Brainstorm is a common turn 1 play. Not since last June.

Good thing I never advocated Milling as a victory condition!

If the card doesn't help you win, why run it? I'd consider Extracting all of an opponent's win conditions the second most potent form of milling, after hitting their entire library in 1 go.

Actually if you are trying to hit ALL of a decks win conditions, extract is terrible. 3 extracts might be good, but drawing 3 copies of 1 card in a single game is unlikely(don't ask me why- lots of terribly complex math reasons, im sure).  That might have something to do with nobody playing it.

You're misunderstanding. I'm not trying to say Extract is a good card, I'm trying to say this new card is terrible because it's on par with Extract. Three Extracts might win you the game against certain decks if you're lucky. Three of this Trap might win you the game against certain decks if you're lucky.

I would imagine that the vast majority of cards become more powerful if you remove their targeting restrictions.  Let me tell you about the time I Terrored my opponent.

This is getting silly. You're trying to argue the milling of 13 cards is something the opponent should be worried about. I'm merely stating that it's so trivial the opponent's reaction is going to be somewhere between indifference and looking forward to it. Dredge would love it, it buffs STV's Welder/Regrowth/Will, Stax hopes you hit Strip, and Fish is utterly nonplussed.

Please, don't take this as a personal attack. I simply remain unconvinced that the card will see any play in Vintage whatsoever. If a brand new Leyline/Helm/Archivist's Trap deck becomes all the rage I'll be thrilled to face a completely new archtype.
8  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Zendikar Card Discussipn - Archive Trap on: September 11, 2009, 12:54:48 am
Predict draws you 2 cards when it counters Vamp/Mystical, and doesn't see any play whatsoever.

This card is very different from predict though, especially since its free, and unlike predict you don't need to actually know what your opponent vamped/sealed for to get your mana's worth. It also has some other interactions, like when an opponent uses brainstorm to protect a card from duress (assuming they popped a fetch to play brainstorm, which is fairly common on turn 1.  Also 13 cards is alot.  Usually it will be 25% or more of their deck,  which is worth considering as dangerous enough seeing as several decks in the format play as few as 2 or 3 win conditions.  

Obviously nearly every deck in the format triggers triggers this condition multiple times per game, the question is weather free is a cheap enough cost for this effect.

With Vamp/Seal you've got a solid chance just saying Black Lotus. Brainstorm is now restricted, casting it on turn 1 is no longer likely.

This card is just bad. 13 cards is nothing. I've had Demonic Consultation mill me to 4 cards left in my library and still won handily. Even in a dedicated deck, Mill is a terrible way to go about winning. You're trying to deplete a stat that starts at 60 instead of 20, and in doing so can further your opponent's plan. If you're simply praying to hit all of a deck's win conditions, Extract, as already mentioned, does the same thing, but significantly better. And Extract sees as much play as Predict.

This card would be significantly more powerful if you could target yourself with it. Think about that.
9  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Zendikar Card Discussipn - Archive Trap on: September 10, 2009, 11:36:49 pm
Predict draws you 2 cards when it counters Vamp/Mystical, and doesn't see any play whatsoever.

Who cares about milling 13 cards off the top every time your opponent breaks a fetchland? More likely than not you're just making the opponent's Will bigger. Milling an opponent for less than his entire library in a shot is a waste of time 99% of the time.
10  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Hermit Blaster!!! on: June 20, 2009, 11:40:56 pm
Uh, Concordant Crossroads?

Gives all creatures haste for  {G}.  That way, you don't really need Dragon's Breath; you could then runn it in a GWB shell, for added protection and tutoring (Eladamri's call, enlightened tutor, Chant, etc., along with Duress and Thoughtseize)

I don't see why you would spend G for Crossroads when Dragon's Breath makes your big dude hasty for free. Giving Druid haste seems rather useless as it requires 1GGG to drop a Crossroads, Druid, and Activate at the same time.
11  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: June 19th B+R Announcement! on: June 19, 2009, 12:39:04 am
Awesome.  So Tez will still be the best deck, but will be even more random and uncontrollable.  Clearly any sort of consistancy is a bad thing, so now I guess I'll just have to find more random restricted 1-ofs to play.  Thanks.

Also, those other cards are likely trash.  Crop Rotation is probably playable but the best the others can hope for is Entomb spawning a really annoying dragon deck.  Oh boy.

I could also see Crop Rotation giving birth to an even better version of Mana Ichorid. Crop Rotation for Bazaar, Strip, or something like Dyrad Arbor seems possible. Wizards seems to have chosen helping decks that beat Drains, rather than restricting Drains themselves. Seems like a viable approach, I just wish there was a little more combo love.
12  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Key/Vault is so broken it now has its own thread on: May 21, 2009, 02:57:09 pm
Re-re-re-errataing Time Vault at this point would essentially be creating power level errata. Wizards hasn't created power level errata in many years, and adding it now to the posterchild for "get your power level errata out of my Type 1" probably isn't going to be real popular. On the other hand, it'd give Grotlieb the chance to say I told you so to everyone who's been pushing for the current errata for years.

I personally don't like the idea of bannings in Vintage, so unrestricting something seems to be the only way to go. It's either that, or pray Zandikar has a huge collection of Vintage playables that are enough to completely shake up the metagame all by itself.

The problem with Vault+Key compared to other 2 card combos in magic is that it's cheap, easily tutorable, completely colorless, and neither card is totally worthless on it's own. Vault + Fusillade was amazing when it first came out, and that cost 2 more mana, required red, and each card was completely worthless without the other. It's so efficient as to put every other combo that's ever existed to shame. Even Flash + Hulk can't stand up. The argument seems to boil down to, is it too efficient, or just highly efficient like every other playable effect in Vintage is?
13  Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays -- Exploring Possible Unrestrictions on: May 19, 2009, 01:08:25 pm
On another note, I don't see why unrestricting Library would help stop Drains. Library is horrible in every matchup except very slow games (control mirrors). I highly doubt a 4xLibrary deck would come out and start changing the format considering it would likely lose to everything but Drains. I mean so what a deck comes out that if paired with 10xControl Mirrors it can win a tournament? What exactly does that accomplish? Maybe it'll take up SB slots and it will be a metagame call but I highly doubt anything will change drastically. The danger with unrestricting Library is that once (if ever) the format slows down to the point where it is viable as a playset it will likely be way too powerful and demand restriction. Basically what I'm saying is that it won't do anything to solve our problem, but it will be a ticking time bomb.

Unrestricting Library hurts Drain because it gives the deck something else it has to deal with. It's not supposed to create a new meta deck, it's supposed to force current drain decks to start running Libraries. If two drain decks are playing, the one with more Libraries has a huge advantage. However, that same deck has a huge disadvantage in virtually every other matchup. The number of non-drain decks that will let a player sit on Library for several turns without having to Force something/otherwise drop below 7 cards is few to none. In other words, since the meta is currently flooded with Drains, playing Libraries is the correct meta call for a Drain deck. Forcing them to play Libraries will give other decks a chance by either keeping them off UU longer, reducing the number of basics they play, or by simply causing the drain player to sit there doing nothing for 3 turns rather than opening with a Vamp for Time Vault, GG turn 2.
The problem with Vintage has always been a trend towards being too fast. Ichorid, Flash, and Gifts have all had people ask if we've reached a point of no return. Frankly, if we ever get to the point where the format feels too slow ever again I'll eat my hat. It's not like it'd be hard to fix anyway. Virtually any card on the B&R list could come off to speed the format up.
14  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Star Wars Decipher CCG on: April 30, 2009, 02:11:54 am
For anyone that played the game years ago it's still a decent game. $20 gets you virtually every card you ever dreamed of having back in the day. It's certainly fun, but there are several inherent flaws with it. The sheer number of silver bullets is staggering, and Decipher didn't even try to hiding that they were doing it. There are countless cards that list 3 specific cards that they cancel and that's it. It started to suffer from power creep really badly towards the end as well. The original Death Star was worthy of a drawback because it provides a 3/0 force split if it's your opener. By the last few expansions, Objectives allow a player to start with a 6/0 split or more, and search up several Effects, which themselves tend to search up more Effects or Characters, all with no drawback. The game is radically different when you start with 6 or 7 cards on the board instead of 1.

The only good thing about Objective cards is they allow a deck to attempt to act out a favorite scene. Carbon freezing Han, blowing up the Death Star, etc. Without em the only viable stat is play a ton of main characters, drop em all on one site and battle. Gets old fast.
15  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: What would your ideal banned and restricted list be? on: June 25, 2008, 06:49:05 pm
Unrestricting Academy is utter maddness. Whether its's the focus of your deck or not, it still produces a crazy burst of blue mana acceleration. Stax, Control Slaver, almost any deck could abuse it pretty heavily, not just combo. Doubly so if you're unrestricting Frantic Search at the same time.

yeah it produces some mana, but without a mox it doesnīt produce you any mana. Workshop also produces 3 mana for artifacts and Academy needs artifacts in play to be good. Furthermore Academy is legendary, so playing 4 of them will increase the chances of 2+ Academies in your opening hand. If you rely too much on Academy - which you have too if you want to support 3-4 of them in your deck - you are really really vulnerable to Spheres and Chalice of the Void. Also a countered mox can easily lose you the game.
You may get some tempo from playing 4 Academies but on the other hand you will have to mulligan much more.

Itīs not that broken anymore!

You're missing the point. It's not just mana acceleration, it's blue mana acceleration. Take Mind's Desire. It's absurdly strong, but the UU makes it difficult for combo players to cast it consistently, especially now that many of them are moving to more of a black base without Brainstorm. Academy fixes that problem. Workshop decks gain another consistent large mana producer, and gain easier access to Tinker/Recall. Control Slaver can get a faster Mana Drain into a bigger Will.

Requiring artifacts is a joke. Any deck that would be looking to run Academy is certainly running upwards of 10 artifacts already. As for the possibility of moxen getting counted, if my opponent counters a mox solely because of Academy I'll be jumping for joy. I'll have just traded a simple mana source for a counter. I'll make that trade all day long. If you desperately need the mox to fuel academy, lead with the artifact first. No one in their right mind will ever counter a mox out of the blue unless you've dropped an Academy turn 1 onto an artifact free board. Even then it's still an extremely sketchy play.

The fact that it's legendary is another problem with it, not a mitigating factor. We don't need to add Academy wars to the long list of randomness in Type 1.

To be honest, I can't believe that it's necessary to argue this. Academy isn't restricted because of the terribly obsolete combo deck from a decade ago. It's restricted because it's completely broken of it's own accord. No land should be able to tap for UUU turn 1, or UUUUUUUU late game. It's completely outside of what a single card, let alone an uncounterable land should be capable of.

Threads like this are why breaking off from the DCI simply wouldn't work.
16  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: What would your ideal banned and restricted list be? on: June 25, 2008, 08:24:22 am
Unrestricting Academy is utter maddness. Whether its's the focus of your deck or not, it still produces a crazy burst of blue mana acceleration. Stax, Control Slaver, almost any deck could abuse it pretty heavily, not just combo. Doubly so if you're unrestricting Frantic Search at the same time.
17  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Blue or Red Beater for 2 Mana? on: May 06, 2008, 05:26:57 pm
Just use Gatherer.

Off the top of my head, the only large blue or red men for cheap have completely crippling drawbacks. Imaginary pet, Okk, etc. Blue and red creatures have traditionally been used for their utility, not their size. Well, outside of Goblins anyway. Piledriver is quite the beater in the right deck.

It'd help to know what deck you're trying to fit these in as well, although that'd require a post in another forum, not here.
18  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays - Winning in Vinage on a Budget on: May 02, 2008, 12:06:42 pm
Definitely.  But I also was trying to make the point that the format itself can sell itself in the sense that once people give it a try, it's pretty addictive.  The allure of the format - the decks and the cards themselves, should be the format's biggest selling point. 

That's exactly right from my experience. Once people get over their initial fears about the format (turn 1 kills, uninteractive, whatever) they're hooked. If you want to get people into the format, build some decks and loan them out for an evening. Try and organize an infinite proxy tourney if you can. Once you get people started in the format there's a very good chance that they're in for life.

For most people I've found GAT is the best deck to introduce them to. It's powerful, yet still wins with creatures and is fairly straightforward. TTS or MUD or something can be much more complicated to just pickup and play. That said, 2 weeks ago I got a friend started in the format by loaning him a MUD deck that he promptly added Rings of Brighthearth, Time Vault and Staff of Domination to. My first choice wouldn't have been a mono brown combo deck but he apparently had a blast with it.

Type 1 is a fun format. It's really not that hard of a sell if you can help people with the card availability problem.
19  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: TMD (et al): the Anti-TV on: May 01, 2008, 12:03:38 pm
That was a really interesting article. Thinking on it, it's potentially quite accurate. A sample size of one proves nothing, but my TV watching has dropped to basically zero over the last few years. At the same time, I spend lots of time online, playing wow, cruising forums, and yes, even editing Wikipedia. It's staggering just how much time people waste watching TV. Even a tiny fraction of that time being tapped in a productive manor could produce some amazing results. Here's to hoping.
20  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] Drain Servant on: May 01, 2008, 11:41:48 am
Has anyone thought about adding an Argivian Find and Ritual of Restoration to the deck to be able to create a Gifts package that could always get the combo?  It could work nice with Intuition as well.

It'd be dead weight and weaken the mana base. Even assuming you were always trying to Gifts for the combo, there are already ways to ensure you get them with the current list. Will + Recoup + Combo pieces, or simply a pile of tutors works. The main issue is that you aren't always going to be Gifting since it's a singleton, and in any other instance Find and company are dead weight. Recoup alone feels clunky when you draw it, but does much more for Gifts than the cards you suggested would. Upping the Intuition count would help somewhat, but you'd still hate drawing them.

By dedicating more slots to the combo, you also start to shift the deck away from a control shell towards pure combo. The inevitable result of that is "Why play this over Flash?" By staying a control deck with a combo finish you at least try and find your own niche.
21  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays - Winning in Vinage on a Budget on: May 01, 2008, 11:25:26 am
I'm sad to hear that so many people have had negative experiences trying to get into Type 1. It's a daunting task for sure, so my friends and I are always open to helping people out. Going to an average tournament I'll loan out a dozen or more cards, everything from duals to power. One time I loaned virtually an entire MUD deck to a friend. If your first time dabbling in Type 1 wasn't so fun, learn from it. Help others so they don't have to go through what you did. I love teaching people to play Magic, and getting people to play Type 1 is just as fun.

Where we play there are indeed cliques. There's our little group of Type 1 players, drafters, the big multiplayer game crew, etc. All of the Type 1 players occasionally dabble in the other formats and we do our best to introduce the format to others. I can't count how many times in the last year or two I've heard someone say "Type 1 is all about turn 1 kills" or some other old stereotype. I ask if they'd like to play a game and loan em a deck. All it takes is 2 or 3 games to show em the truth and get em hooked.

What people need to remember is that Magic is a niche hobby. Vintage is a niche within that niche. I'm not surprised that there are jerks driving people away from the format, but I am disappointed. The best way to learn Magic is from another player. In the same way, as Vintage players we should all act as envoys of the format. It's by far the best way to show people what Vintage is all about, and to get them involved in the format.
22  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: The ponderings of a noob sauce RE: Flash on: March 29, 2008, 06:35:23 am
But i have one question: If a part of the combo creatures (not the Hulks) is in my hand: Can i win the game? If yes, how? Is there a creature which should never be in your hand when comboing out? I think it's the Body Snatcher, right?

The only creature that can keep you from winning if it's in your hand is Carrion Feeder. You need to either Brainstorm it back or hardcast it.

Body Snatcher is actually irrelevant to the combo. It's only used if you happen to have one of the other non-Carrion Feeder combo pieces in hand. If you have Revilark or Body Double in hand, just fetch out Body Snatcher instead. Discard the offending creature, sac the Snatcher to Carrion Feeder and continue as normal. Fanatic in hand requires you to bring back Body Double as Hulk an extra time, and fetch out the Body Snatcher to pitch Fanatic. You can combo out normally from there.
23  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays - Best Deck Ever? on: March 29, 2008, 02:48:17 am
Great article, and I'm looking forward to the next piece. Personally I'd never cut the ESG, as it's been so good to me in testing. Otherwise everything seems spot on with what I've noticed when playing the deck.
24  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Fish + Tarmogoyf. What to do? on: March 03, 2008, 11:48:33 am
One of my friends has been playing with a G/U/B fish list for a while. The last tourney we made it to he finished first in the swiss.

Tourney Results are here

Here's the list he used:

Sean Robbins (B/U/G Fish) 7th
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Waterfront Bouncer
4 Brainstorm
1 Regrowth
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Life from the Loam
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Echoing Truth
1 Extirpate
1 Bayou
2 Duress
2 Diabolic Edict
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Oxidize
4 Trygon Predator

His screen name on the drain is The Duressed if you want to send him a PM. His current list is pretty close, except the bouncers have been cut for some maindeck Trygons. We're starting to see more Shops and fewer GAT lists around here.
25  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Magic in the Philadelphia Pennsylvania area? on: February 23, 2008, 08:42:35 am
Check out the tournament announcement forum for Blue Bell tournies. They're just outside of Philly and have regular Vintage events that tend to be a lot of fun.
26  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays - Unrestriction Proposals on: February 23, 2008, 08:38:17 am
If it would be amazing as a 4-of, it would be played as a 1-of.

If we go by this logic, how come we never saw a singleton gush being played?

Because Gush + Fastbond is an engine. You can chain Gushes and Merchant Scrolls together until you find Will or Walk + creature ftw. A single Gush doesn't function as an engine, and thus doesn't get played.

Mox Diamond isn't an engine, it's a simple piece of mana acceleration. There's no significant boost to your deck from playing 4 instead of 1. In fact, the opposite is true. A double Mox Diamond opening hand is absolutely terrible.
27  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays - Unrestriction Proposals on: February 20, 2008, 09:28:44 am
Hey Steve,

What about cards like Crop Rotation, Enlightened Tutor, Lotus Petal, and Library of Alexandria?  They're ones I've felt lately that wouldn't break the format and would potentially spawn new archetypes.  Could you give us your thoughts on those four? Smile



Crop Rotation is dangerous, allowing Stax access to 4x Strip Mines, while Lotus Petal is just nuts in combo in general. I've messed around with lots of topdeck tutors and Chromatic Spheres in a 5 color long shell before. Anything that fetches Necro and Lotus for 1 mana is a little risky as far as I'm concerned.

LoA is a potential unrestriction candidate based on power, simply because no one is ever going to want to run more than 2. Colorless lands are simply not helpful in control decks these days. Needing UU for Mana Drain and 2 Islands for Gush really limits LoA's power in anything but the control mirror. There are secondary market concerns, but for every player scrambling to get a playset there will be a collector who's excited that his LoA just tripled in value.

I'm a fan of a better safe than sorry approach. The format is great right now, and I don't see a need to try something new to shake things up. Wait until people have stopped being creative and the meta's started to stagnate again, like it was in the Pitch Long/Gifts era.
28  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [So Many Insane Plays] Something New in Vintage on: February 15, 2008, 04:47:23 am
Just for discussion's sake, here's the list:

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
2 Platinum Angel

4 Oath Of Druids

1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Echoing Truth
4 Force Of Will
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Pact Of Negation
1 Vampiric Tutor

1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
1 Gaea's Blessing
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Ponder
1 Time Walk

1 Island
3 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
3 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Pithing Needle
4 Leyline Of The Void
1 Fire / Ice
3 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Trickbind
1 Volcanic Island
29  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Optimal GAT builds on: February 10, 2008, 01:41:14 pm
GAT is a very adaptable deck. The optimal list depends on what metagame you're expecting. Are you expecting shops? If so, Mana Drain over Misdirection, and a pair of basics are the way to go. Lots of Flash? You'll want more Duresses and Misds. Lots of aggro? The red splash is excellent. You'll need to balance your MD and SB against what decks you're expecting to face all day. There's no single optimal GAT list until everyone's metagame looks the same.

Should a 4th color be ran? If so, then what is the purpose of that 4th color?

A 4th color allows for additional options. Pyroclasm is huge against Goblins, while REB is helpful in many matchups. Fire/Ice is an excellent utility slot MD, giving you a scrollable solution to Welder, Confidant, and other random dorks.

2nd win condition? Should it be EtW, Meloku, DSC/Tinker, Tog, or Goyf?

Meloku and DSC don't fit well in GAT. EtW, Dryad, Tarmo, and Tog are the only really viable options as far as I'm concerned. Like the rest of the deck, what you run is going to depend on the metagame. Recently I've been liking a mix of Tarmos and Togs main, with a single EtW. Tarmo is an immediate threat, even under multiple Thorns. Tog is solid in the mirror and steals games if you run a MD Berserk. Small empties for 6-8 can do the same, but EtW is nice because it doesn't rely on the GY. At the last tournament I went to I faced MD Leylines all day long, and my 1/2 Togs and 2/3 Tarmogoyfs took forever to go the distance. Since adding a EtW, Leyline hasn't been an issue.

Should GAT run Mana Drains? What about Thoughtseize, Mis-Ds, and such?

I'd never cut Drain unless you were expecting a field of Flash with few to no Shops. Drain into Energy Flux is pretty much your solution to Stax. On the other hand, Drain is too slow against Flash, so a mix of Thoughseizes and Misds is the way to go.

-Optimal Sideboard?

Even more metagame dependent than the MD. Energy Flux, Pyroclasm, Pithing Needle, REBs, Yixlid Jailers, 6 Leylines, Additional win conditions, artifact/creature spot removal, etc. A general purpose SB will run Flux, Pyro, Needle, Jailer, and some REBs. If you see a lot of Ichorid or Flash, you can swap the Needle and Jailer for the Leylines.

MD Cunning Wish or Berserk, or none of the above?

If you run 2 Togs main a MD Berserk is solid. Gush + Berserk can make Tog very lethal very quickly. Otherwise neither Wish or Berserk make the main. Without the Togs, Berserk is too often a bad Snuff Out.

Faster approach or slower approach?

This depends on your opening hand and what you're playing against. If you've got Fastbond, double land, Gush, Gush, Force go for it. If you've got a bunch of Duresses, Brainstorms, and Scrolls take your time disrupting the opponent before dropping a critter.

I hope I was able to help.
30  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: [Results] Blue Bell Tournament 1-26 on: January 29, 2008, 07:29:07 pm
Thanks to everyone who made it a fun day, and especially to Mike for revamping the store to be player-friendly.

I think my 43 card Flash decklist is easily the most tech'ed out of the tournament.  2nd column of cards ftw!!

43 cards? No wonder you were able to turn 1 me twice in a row! I call shenanigans!

Seriously though, I'd be interested in seeing your full list. Know thy enemy and all that.
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