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1291  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Type 1 in a nutshell on: March 28, 2004, 03:41:37 pm
That card is so unbelievably wrong!


It should be RUB.
1292  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Discussion] Should the number of proxies be increased? on: March 27, 2004, 08:03:57 pm
I voted 10, seeing as how Zherbus's idea of a set-based restriction isn't an option.
1293  Eternal Formats / Creative / Isochron Scepter on: March 27, 2004, 03:04:55 pm
Quote from: type1playa

and klep,  both situations you just mentioned that justified iso not to be card disadvantage ended up being a whole lot of tapping 4 colorless for nothing.  i know you don't have to imprint the card until your opponent lets it in play but i still think it sucks and is only decent in certain controllish decks like keeper or hulk and in minimal quantities like inquisitor said.  but both of the best versions of those decks don't run isocrap and niether do any of the top tier decks right now so that should say enough right there about this card.


I believe I did mention that there is a significant tempo cost to the card.  I was merely pointing out that saying Scepter sucks because of card disadvantage is erroneous.  I was also saying you can't just put some scepters in a deck and expect it to be good.  You have to prepare for it.  I have played both a Keeper in which I tried to use scepter and a U/R control deck that I built to use scepter, and I had far more success with the latter.  

-David 'Klep' Kleppinger, Raving Lunatic
1294  Eternal Formats / Creative / Isochron Scepter on: March 25, 2004, 09:15:49 am
Quote from: Brutal_Deluxe
Would this be subpar in the current environment?


Probably.  You're either building a slow combo deck or a control deck with a lot of cards wrapped up in a combo that could be drawing things instead.

Odds are Tog will outdraw you,  Stompy will outrace you, and Slaver will just beat you to a bloody pulp.

Still, come up with a list.  Maybe you can surprise us.

-David 'Klep' Kleppinger, Raving Lunatic
1295  Eternal Formats / Creative / Isochron Scepter on: March 25, 2004, 01:43:19 am
Quote from: type1playa
there's a reason people call it isocrap scepter.  it's just not good enough for type1.  just brake down the steps here....play the crap for 2.  imprint something.  now you're -2 cards and haven't done anything yet except use up 2 mana.  you now have to use the crap twice just to make up for -2 cards.  that's 6 mana to use an instant that costs 2 or less twice.  something about that last sentence just makes me ask how is that helpful?  why not play sphere of resistence on yourself?  i understand that if it resolves early and isn't dealt with it can lead to tremendous card advantage and usually games.  but the truth is it can and will will be dealt with early, essentially your hymning yourself.  

if you want to play with it don't center your deck around it.  maybe play with 2 of em', and when it finally comes into play and you can protect it you can go, 'booya!' and procede to win the game.


That's actually the first time i've heard anyone call it that.  The fact is, that if you want to use it, you do have to build your deck around it.  You can't just throw a couple of scepters in a deck and expect it to be good.  You have to have scepter as a part of your game plan.  

  You also make it sound like scepter is automatic card disadvantage, which it isn't.  For one, you don't have to imprint a card until the imprint trigger resolves, which is after your opponent's chance to counter the scepter or stifle the trigger.
Think of it like this:
1) You play scepter.  -1 card
2) Your opponent counters the scepter, or stifles the imprint. +1 card
Net 0 cards.

1) You play scepter. -1 card
2) You imprint Mana Drain. -1 card
3) Your opponent Naturalizes Scepter. +1 card
4) You Drain Naturalize. +/- 0 cards.
5) Your opponent Oxidizes Scepter. +1 card
Net 0 cards.

1) You play scepter. -1 card
2) You imprint Brainstorm. -1 card
3) Your opponent Shatters scepter. +1 card
4) In response, you Brainstorm. +1 card.
Net 0 cards.

So you see, assuming you play something capable of generating card advantage on the Scepter, the only time have card disadvantage is when you stupidly tap out to play it.  That isn't to say there isn't a significant tempo investment, there clearly is.  But the idea that scepter sucks because it's card disadvantage only holds if you're a bad player.  The real reason Scepter isn't broken is because it takes a significant mana investment to use properly.  This is difficult to do, and as such requires a deck to be structured around the card.

-David 'Klep' Kleppinger, Raving Lunatic
1296  Eternal Formats / Creative / Keeperneeds help- with power:) on: March 10, 2004, 03:04:37 am
Well, let's see.  To start with, I think you'll be better off with a 2nd Swords over a 4th Fire/Ice.   You also really need to at least change that Lotus Petal to a permanent mana source, probably a Volcanic Island in this case because of your reliance on Fire/Ice.

Don't worry about cutting Duress.  It really doesn't work that well in a reactive control deck.  I tried it myself once and was never quite happy with it.

For your sideboard, I recommend Rack and Ruin instead of Hurkyl's Recall.  I think you'll find its a much stronger card, even though you can't put it on a scepter.  I aslo suggest putting an Ebony Charm in there as well.

-David 'Klep' Kleppinger, Raving Lunatic
1297  Eternal Formats / Creative / Keeper Type 1 on: March 06, 2004, 10:58:06 pm
Cut Duress. It's bad in reactive control decks because it is a proactive card. Decks like Keeper want to sit back and provide answers to threats, and cards like Duress just don't mesh well with that strategy.  Replace it with 2 Stifles and another Swords.

If you think Balance is only important against aggro, you aren't thinking about it correctly.  There is no good reason for you to cut Balance ever.
It needs to go back in.  With the amount of draw you have, you can probably drop a wish for it.

You know what?  Just go to the main page and read Zherbus's primer.  There's so much that could be better with this and he's already explained what's right.  It's really rather pointless for me to repeat it here.

-David 'Klep' Kleppinger, Raving Lunatic
1298  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Discussion] Isochron Scepter on: February 20, 2004, 08:26:39 pm
I actually used it in a U/R control deck where I found it to be very strong and where it served as my primary win condition (via Fire/Ice).  This in a generally powered meta (thanks to proxy-5).  The important thing is to play it in the right deck, and in the right meta.

-David 'Klep' Kleppinger, Raving Lunatic
1299  Eternal Formats / Creative / Drawing cards is winning. on: February 18, 2004, 03:47:21 pm
Bah, don't hide your hobbies.  If you make people think you're ashamed of them, they're far more likely to think they're something to be ashamed of.  If you're going to Indy for a PTQ, say you're going to Indy for a PTQ.  The fact that doing well enough could earn you a fair amount of scratch for playing a game can't hurt.  Being a geek isn't stigmatic anymore, as long as you don't want it to be.  Besides, you never know what could happen.  I recently told a girl I know that I play Magic and surprise surprise! She told me she used to play as well and wants to show me her old cards.

-David 'Klep' Kleppinger, Raving Lunatic
1300  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Proxy Discussion on: February 10, 2004, 12:34:37 am
I actually think that Zherbus's idea of allowing proxies from pre-Legends is pretty good. As he said, it would compensate for the unavailablility of those cards due to the small print runs, and let everyone have access to them.  And though I hate to just keep reiterating his points (they happen to be good ones),  Legends is a good cutoff point because there is a real jump in the availability of cards from that set due to the Italian runs.   True, things are still somewhat expensive, but the line has to be drawn somewhere, and the popular cards from legends are still nowhere near as expensive as the popular cards from earlier sets.  What are people really proxying all the time anyway?


-David 'Klep' Kleppinger, Raving Lunatic
1301  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Deck]Eastman for the masses on: February 05, 2004, 09:58:28 am
This is a very interesting concept for a deck.  I wish I had Chains so I could try it out.  Though I saw some people telling you to run Fire/Ice, with the Swords and Decrees you probably don't need it as badly as other Scepter decks do.  I doubt I'd main-deck it unless I expected to face a lot of aggro, particularly if, as you seem to have discovered, the leaks work well.

One question though, have you tried Misdirection in the place of the leaks?  It seems to me that MisD's are the other obvious choice for those 2 slots, and if you haven't, it may be worth looking at them.  Since Gush was restricted, it seems people have, for the most part, forgotten about the card and are relatively unprepared to deal with it. I could see arguments both for and against it, but I'm curious about what you think.

-David 'Klep' Kleppinger, Raving Lunatic
1302  Vintage Community Discussion / Community Introductions / Introduce Yourself on: February 02, 2004, 04:47:23 pm
I am David Kleppinger.   I am currently 21, though I expect that to change sometime in July.  I am also an undergraduate in Computer Engineering at Virginia Tech, though I expect that to change in May.

I've been a player since the tail end of The Dark, which meant much of my first money was spent on Fallen Empires, which tells you something about how much I like the game as I'm still around.   I took a break from the game starting in fall 2000 as college was sucking away all of my cash, but picked it back up towards the beginning of '03.

I am a control player by choice and by nature, though sick and disgusting combo appeals to me from time to time.  Currently I am returning to my roots, playing a little U/r thing I put together I'm calling The Deck Formerly Known as Urphidian, although I've been known to play Keeper, Rector Tendrils, and Long in the past.  I play at a store called Fun and Games here in Blacksburg, where we do proxy-5 and as a result have a fairly competitive, if relatively small metagame.  I'm not usually a participant, however, as anyone here you ask will tell you I don't have a terribly competitive nature, playing out of love for the game rather than a desire to win.

Other than Magic I enjoy gaming and reading, and have recently been developing an interest in Doctor Who.  I'd elaborate more as I am one of my favorite subjects, but I have a class to get ready for.

-David 'Klep' Kleppinger, Raving Lunatic
1303  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Urphid without ophidian on: February 01, 2004, 10:01:54 pm
I've tried to do the same thing with Urphidian, but I have arrived at a different deck that has worked quite well for me.  Here is my list:

The Deck Formerly Known as Urphidian
By: David Kleppinger, Jan. 2004
//Manabase
5 SoLoMoxen (minus Jet and Emerald)
4 Volcanic Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
6 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

//Countermagic
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection

//Disruption
2 Stifle
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Blood Moon

//Draw
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall

//Utility
4 Isochron Scepter
3 Cunning Wish
1 Time Walk

//Kill
3 Fire&Ice

//Sideboard
1 Blood Moon
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Orim's Chant
1 Rack and Ruin
4 Red Elemental Blast
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Stifle
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Tormod's Crypt

The reason for the lack of the other 2 moxen and a Library is because the local tournaments are proxy-5 and I only own Ancestral.  There is a heavy contingent of Dragon in my area, which is why all the hate.

The focus of this deck is obviously on mana denial in a meta that is largely dependent on non-basic land.  Gorilla Shaman eats moxes, Stifle threatens fetches, strips do what they do, and Blood Moon shuts things down.  The stick allows me to do things that would otherwise be impossible, such as draw three per turn every turn or keep a counter up at all times.

Specific Card Notes:

Misdirection- People have stopped fearing this.  I decided not to let them.  If your opponent isn't aware you have it, it can be devastating, and even just the threat of it forces your opponent to play far more carefully.

Fire&Ice- This isn't so much about the inclusion of this card as the non-inclusion of something like Morphling.  Simple put, I have found a more dedicated kill was simply unecessary.  When this deck establishes control, it keeps it, and at that point it no longer matters how slow your kill is.  I found myself very frequently wishing that Morphling was a third Fire&Ice when I was developing this deck.  As an additional benefit, I discovered on Thursday that opponents will often concede in the face of waiting 7 or 8 turns for you to kill them with Fire on a stick.

I played this deck (+1 Stifle, -1 Cunning Wish) in a tournament Thursday, where I took second losing to a Gay/r deck on tiebreakers.  I of course did not face the deck I was most prepared for (Dragon), but instead beat Landstill, FEB,  a Workshop deck created by forum member riggy, and a Scepter Keeper build piloted by Katzby.

The big difference between our decks is, obviously, that you have a third color.  This is probably what's giving you most of your problems.  I suspect you may be losing to Keeper decks because of the MD Blood Moon.  I suggest running no more than 2 colors or forgetting about Blood Moon.   It's just difficult to keep your colors straight and, as you can see, deprived you from access to strip effects.  My deck concentrates things into two colors, allowing me to use the full 5 Strip Mine and Wastes, which means that Blood Moon has a negligeable effect on me once it hits.

Another problem your additional color causes is that it takes the focus out of your deck.  My deck, as you can see, is rather focused on mana denial, with 5 strip effects, the Blood Moons, Stifles, and Shamans.  The rest of the deck is largely working to support this strategy and deal with threats as they arise.  Your deck is all over the place, and has far too many win conditions.   It is clear that you are trying to ensure your scepters have targets, but it is much better to move some key targets into the board and run Cunning Wish instead.  This is what I have done with my sideboard, and careful play ensures that I have something to drop on the Scepter whenever I play one.

You are quite simply wrong about Mana Drain.  I took a grand total of about 10 points of burn over the entire night, and I suspect that is not much higher than the average for other decks running Drain.  One thing to remember is that worse comes to worse, you can always activate a Scepter and not play the spell.  I employed this trick myself during one of my games to save myself two points of burn when I had a full hand.  Drains are mandatory because they are usually what allow you to play a Scepter in the first place.  If they aren't working out, it isn't because they aren't good with Scepters, it is because you aren't good with Drains.

Finally, you have far too much dedicated to the kill.  You do not need 2 kills in addtion to Fire&Ice, and in fact you should be fine without any.  If  you feel you must have the safety blanket  of a faster kill, use a single Morphling.  Masticore's drawback simply isn't worth it when Fire&Ice performs his secondary function just as well, and you really shouldn't run 3 colors with Blood Moon anyway.

Finally,  with fetchlands Brainstorm is stronger than Impulse.  This should really be a no-brainer.

-David 'Klep' Kleppinger, Raving Lunatic
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