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1  Eternal Formats / Northeast U.S. / Re: The Comic Book Depot 3/20/16 $1,000 Vintage Credit Tournament! on: March 18, 2016, 12:42:18 pm
Ive come from CT for two of these. Not sure if I can make this one, but starting at noon is better for me, because I get back a little earlier.
2  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Commemorative Playmat For The N.Y.S.E. Open IV on: March 17, 2016, 09:56:47 am
I believe it was $40 for last years mat. Well worth it though. I've had people walk past my match, stop, turn around and interrupt my match to comment on how sweet last years mat is.
3  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Harness the Storm on: March 16, 2016, 03:16:47 pm
Might be playable in legacy burn or something, but even there you might be better off just playing 4 other burn spells. I could also see legacy storm maaaaaybe finding a use for it? But past in flames is still probably better.
4  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: SOI- Jace, unraveler of secrets on: March 16, 2016, 03:14:09 pm
I think its fair to discuss the cards, in the context of Vintage. Even if the conclusion is that it isn't worth it, I think there is still value into talking about why.

So, for this guy it is a pretty easy discussion...he is just a weaker version of Jace, the Mindsculptor, with weaker versions of each of Jace's abilities, and so yeah, he shouldn't see play.
5  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Eternal Masters CONFIRMED on: March 16, 2016, 01:15:13 pm
1) Even if you reprint once with no negative financial impact, further reprinting may cause financial harm, so you're creating this sort of long term liability around the printing of these cards.

This is one thing I've wondered about: how far does this extend?

Let's say they simply eliminate the Reserved List and related policy tomorrow, but without reprinting anything.  Then, in 10 years (2026) they reprint the P9 in a Vintage Masters type set.  Do all the same problems exist 10 years after the policy is formally eliminated?

What about 20 years?

It would likely be that simply announcing the removal of the policy, even with no immediate associated reprints, prices would drop.  Exactly how much is anyone's guess, but it's clear that there are separate impacts from the presence of the policy and actual reprints.

Its an interesting thought, for both parties, if only because of the strategy implications for the potential plaintiffs: do you wait and see what happens on an actual reprint, do you move now? I think the points you raise are very valid, and they underscore the uncertain nature of this situation. That there are all these questions, issues and uncertainty highlight, to me at least, the reasons why we aren't going to see printings of these cards unless the game is in dire straits...what healthy entity would take on all the risks and headaches to print a product that they don't actually need to print to stay solvent, especially when printing that product may have a negative impact on sales of future standard product?
6  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Eternal Masters CONFIRMED on: March 16, 2016, 10:35:14 am

I think there are two other factors to this as well:

1) Even if you reprint once with no negative financial impact, further reprinting may cause financial harm, so you're creating this sort of long term liability around the printing of these cards. You could try and hedge through pricing, to make sure that the product is generating extra revenue to offset future legal fees and such, but that's a bit of effort and why even bother with it if you don't need to?

2) Even without any legal issues, by making the cards needed to play eternal formats easily available, you kind of cut your own throat in regards to standard. The excitement of playing standard may be tempered by easy access to the powerful stuff going on in the Eternal formats.If you shift a chunk of your player base into these formats, it really makes it harder to sell them new sealed product.
 There is also a lot less flex room in Eternal, particularly Vintage, because so many of the cards in there are just the best at what they do, and printing something that could actually replace a card like Vamp or DT or any of the blue draw spells is probably not a great idea from a design perspective, if you want to have standard playing a particular way.
7  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Eternal Masters CONFIRMED on: March 16, 2016, 09:50:50 am
I'm one of the many players who began playing when Unlimited turned into Revised and I stopped playing when I went to college (1999).  I picked the game back up again around the time of Dark Ascension.  While I was in college, my brother sold all my valuable cards for weed money, so I no longer had any duals (and I never owned power).  I've transitioned from Standard to Legacy and Modern and even some Vintage.  Reprints of shocks and fetches and mutavaults and thoughtseizes were great, and I bought low on other cards when MM and MM15 came out.  I now have 8/16 blue duals and 6 of the others along with all non-reserve, non-"vintage-only" (such as Mana Drain) staples for the eternal and non-rotating formats.  And I'm continuing to buy here and there.  Just yesterday I pulled the trigger on 2 Volcanic Islands (which brought me from 6 to the 8 mentioned blue duals). 

I don't mind the current prices, and don't mind biding my time and collecting when I feel it's right to purchase certain cards.  I'm not a fan of the Reserved List, but I don't see it as barring me from playing Legacy and most of the Vintage tournaments where I can borrow from a friend (who has 2 playsets of power) or proxy.

That said, as a 3L law student (there's a saying that nobody's as dangerous as a law student, because we don't know what we don't know, so take this with a grain of salt), I can't see a lawsuit arising from the termination of the Reserved List surviving summary judgment (where one side asks the judge to rule in their favor before trial begins because the other doesn't have enough facts to support the required legal elements).  If WOTC doesn't want to get rid of the Reserved List, I very much doubt it has anything to do with fear of legal ramifications.  That said, plenty of other, valid business reasons could exist.

Regarding the legal ramifications of ending the reserved list, the issue that I have seen most frequently raised, and which does not appear in your post, is that of promissory estoppel. Wizards made a promise regarding the reprinting of these cards, and people made financial decisions based on that. Some of them made significant financial decisions. Who can say for sure what the cost of litigation + WotC's exposure on this would be. I don't think you can really predict just what kind of price drop a reprint would cause. It may be possible that you could end up with a Modern Masters/Tarmogoyf situation where increased demand more than offsets, and actually improves upon, your position on a particular card (which I imagine would immediately put an end to any lawsuits because you wouldn't actually have lost anything), but who knows for sure until it happens? You're sort of rolling the dice.

8  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Rules updates on: March 15, 2016, 11:12:17 am
It seems like change for the sake of change.

I think they may be trying to tinker with modern for this. Its true, there are implications for Vintage and  Legacy but I think it's going to be a a bigger deal in modern. At the very least you can no longer Abrupt Decay a Huntmaster. I don't think any of the new flip cards that would see play in Vintage or even Legacy are above 3cmc anyways, so Decay would still work, but Modern may have more use for some of the higher CMC stuff, and perhaps Wizards felt that in that format, they didn't want Ratchet bomb to turn into a 2 mana wrath-like effect or to have Decay just be an uncounterable answer to all the new toys.

It's kind of a bummer that Explosives takes a bit of a hit vs Delver.
9  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Thing In The Ice on: March 15, 2016, 10:04:48 am
If you remove the counters with Hexmage, can you even flip it if you cast a spell? The ability has a then clause after a mandatory action, so if you do not remove a counter does the then which is conditional based on that trigger?

That being said I think Hex parasite is better because it can murder multiple walkers that are not Dack in a game, and it is "on color".

Also, Hunted Horror and this combo well, but I think that is probably more win more than not.

My understanding of how this would work if you removed the counters with hexmage and then cast an instant is that you would attempt to remove a counter, find no counters, then proceed to trigger the then clause.
10  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Eternal Masters CONFIRMED on: February 18, 2016, 03:51:16 pm
A better way to do it would be to make Land cards that are a specific type that also produce colorless mana, then continue to expand the number of cards requiring colorless mana costs.
This can easily produce more problems than solutions.  You can't print new cards that are superior to old ones without obsolescing the old ones.  If colourless matters got better than playing colours it would hurt the diversity of the format. 

I feel like If they ever printed new cards that were actually better than the old ones, then those new cards would probably end up in the same price range as the cards they replaced.
11  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Reserve List Card Spike? on: February 18, 2016, 02:25:29 pm
I have to agree with this. Moxes have appreciated at a much lower pace the last 5+ years compared to cards like wasteland, FoW, dual lands, chains, moat, etc.  I would also guess that moxes are probably one of the last major cards a person will purchase.

You have to figure that with the price already so high there's much less room for movement in Moxen prices, so I think that makes sense.

Also just less formats to play them in. It seems like a lot of people don't even get the Legacy action they want, let alone Vintage.
12  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Reserve List Card Spike? on: February 17, 2016, 04:50:23 pm
If they end up making some new No Reserved list format,

I've heard a few people talking about this.  I would totally play in such a format -- lots of Legacy decks just swap out the mana base and continue along their merry way -- but is there realistically any space for such a format in between Modern and Legacy?  Seems like it would not have much oxygen there.  Kind of like how Extended died an ignominious death as a format that didn't really work for anyone. 

I probably wouldn't play in such a format personally, the Legacy decks I like to play all have reserved list cards that can't be replaced (Metalworker, City, Cradle, LED), or cards I think are just fun (Tabernacle). But its very creation could conceivably squeeze out Legacy and push the duals and such into the realm of Vintage only, which I think would hurt the prices.
13  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Reserve List Card Spike? on: February 17, 2016, 03:42:25 pm
It seems like the announcement of Eternal Masters, and the subsequent doubling-down on the Reserve List has driven some real action on the price of Reserve List cards.  Will mentioned that Revised Volcanic Island spiked $40 on Tuesday alone on  All the duals seemed to have gone up between 5-20% on Tuesday.

I have sold some of my Vintage cards in the last few years to help finance my art purchases.  When Eternal Masters was announced, I was missing some prominent cards on the Reserve List, notably:

Bazaar of Baghdad
City of Traitors
Gaea's Cradle

I bought a set of Bazaars, three more City of Traitors and three foil Gaea's Cradles yesterday. 

Anybody else getting pinched by this?  Anyone well-prepared for the next few months? 

I picked up a Tabernacle, my last UL Underground Sea and 2x Judge Foil Crucible of worlds on the back of EMA. I wish I had more money to pick up a few other things, but I've been scrambling to pick up oldschool cards too. If they end up making some new No Reserved list format, I could see some of the prices sliding back a bunch, but at this point I'm more concerned with having what I need to play.

My brother and I have been racing to snag up all the alpha we need for our 93/94 decks as well on the basis that this stuff was already pretty expensive when it really wasn't seeing all that much, or any, play so if 93/94 catches on even a little bit what will that do to the prices. When you consider the print run of Alpha, and how many copies are even extant these days, it doesn't take a very large population to drive the action.

Ultimately, I'm buying these cards because I want to make sure I have them to play with. The timing isn't particularly great, but it is what it is.
14  Eternal Formats / Northeast U.S. / Re: Undiscovered Realm Westchester NY 3/6/16 Vintage for SDCC Black Jace + more. on: February 11, 2016, 10:23:39 am
This sounds awesome, I'm in CT but this is only an hour from my house. I should be there with a friend, and this is close enough that I can regularly make it
15  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [SOI] Pieces of the puzzle on: February 09, 2016, 03:59:05 pm
I think this card would be T1 relevant at instant speed.  At sorcery speed, there are just other things you can do with  {U} {2} that will consistently be more impactful.

Agree that being at instant speed would make this a lot better. Possibly broken even.
16  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: Comic Book Depot 1K - 1/31/16 results on: February 04, 2016, 04:33:09 pm
Roland was also playing 5C Shops I believe. I feel like there were a couple of guys on it.
17  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: 93/94 MTGO Tournament/League on: February 01, 2016, 02:16:35 pm
I would be stoked to see this on MTGO. I love this format as it lets me jam one of my favorite cards "Juzam Djinn". I'm actually currently trying to make a deck in paper just for the fun of it but it's fairly extensive tracking down all those beautiful cards.

Its getting harder to find the staples, at reasonable prices anyways. Lots of stuff has doubled, tripled, sometimes more, since the oldschool tourney at champs. The stuff that hasn't jumped has become harder to find in general. I'm personally racing to get as much stuff as I can, as fast as I can.
18  Eternal Formats / Northeast U.S. / Re: Battlegrounds Gaming - Norwalk, CT - Friday Night Vintage - 1/29 on: February 01, 2016, 09:30:33 am
We had 8 people show up for the inaugural event this Friday, and it was a blast. The store is clean and has plenty of space, the staff were courteous and helpful, and they have things available in the case that Vintage players would want. The event ran smoothly. This was my first time going to Battlegrounds, and I was definitely impressed. I will surely be back, and I would recommend the store.

19  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: 93/94 MTGO Tournament/League on: February 01, 2016, 09:23:57 am
I have to agree with Steve here ... when playing 93/94 online you'll just miss a lot of what the format is for. It is about having 20 year old cardboard in your hands, feeling really really oldschool .... you probably won't get these out of playing on MoDo or Cockatrice. You might find it dull or less appealing Wink

Very true. I love looking at a grip full of 20+ year old cards and wondering just how many opponents this Erhnam has killed, how many lands the 'Geddon has blown up, how many creatures have fallen to this Plow...I love that oldschool exists because these cards are gorgeous, and I think its great to have a format where they can be on full display and back doing what they were printed to do!

Obviously none of these aspects are available in an online format.
20  Eternal Formats / Northeast U.S. / Re: Battlegrounds Gaming - Norwalk, CT - Friday Night Vintage - 1/29 on: January 29, 2016, 12:41:21 pm
I have 2 coming from Shelton
21  Vintage Community Discussion / Non-Vintage / Re: 'Invent your own format' FNM option on: January 19, 2016, 06:01:54 pm
So, when they opened up FNM to include basically any format they added an invent your own format option.  I haven't seen too many people do much with it though.  

I'm wondering if it's within the rules to create a "Shockless Legacy format" that is exactly like legacy except the 10 shock lands from Ravnica blocks never have to pay 2 life to CITP untapped.

Is that possible? What else is possible? If mental magic is acceptable why wouldn't that be?

During all the proxy discussion last week I was brainstorming ways to get people into legacy while being able to use their real cards. 

This type of format would favor those with actual duals, simply because under your rules I could now play 8 Volcanic Islands if I so chose (4 proper Volcs, 4 Steam Vents that under your rules are now Volcs), which is sort of an advantage over someone who only plays four. A lot of the delver lists wouldn't run the extras, but I could see some 2 color list or another being able to maximize.

22  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: 93/94 MTGO Tournament/League on: January 19, 2016, 04:25:02 pm
Yeah, most of the old school art is available

Even if they're not, you can always do an art swap!

Ah ok, was not aware of this...I basically just use Magic Online for the vintage cube. I was thinking about getting more into it to play more vintage, but theres been a pretty good uptick in events in the Northeast so in the end I decided to just stick with paper. Vintage dredge costs almost $500 right now, and for that price I could just buy all the paper cards for Dredge and proxy 4 Bazaars and call it a day. The other decks are like twice that price, and I can already play them in paper.

I'd love to see more oldschool events, I think its a great format both for those of us who grew up playing those types of games, and for new players as well. Part of my issue with doing them online though is that you miss out on seeing some truly beautiful decks.
23  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: 93/94 MTGO Tournament/League on: January 19, 2016, 11:33:02 am
Is the full oldschool catalog even available online? Chaos Orb aside I feel like there would be a bunch of stuff missing, maybe not all of it important, but still. Also worth considering, of the cards that are, which of them are printed with the proper art?
24  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: WotC cracking down on proxies, even in non-sanctioned events on: January 15, 2016, 09:25:28 am
I sent the following message to Wizards thanking Elaine for this article.  I thought it was important to give direct positive feedback for something so generously performed because negative thoughts are so more frequently vocalized than positive reactions.  I debated whether or not to specify that I was the current Vintage champion, because I prefer to engage people without being full of hot air or rattling off "credentials," but I included it because I thought the message was worth giving it whatever extra weight it could have and to perform some of the implied responsibilities of a leader in our format.  The message is below:



My name is Brian Kelly, the current Vintage World Champion.  I wanted to thank Elaine Chase for her wonderful article yesterday, "On Proxies, Policy, and Communication."  Having started Magic in 1994, Vintage is the format most dear to me and the one I play most often.  Importantly, because we have a vibrant Vintage community in the Northeast, it keeps our interest in Magic itself alive.  Since returning to paper Vintage in 2013, I have attended ten prereleases and opened over a dozen boxes of new expansions that were relevant for Eternal, particularly those from Khans of Tarkir block.  Being involved in Vintage also connects me to current Magic by inspiring me to play in drafts and occasional Modern tournaments.  It is because of Vintage that I am able to enthusiastically promote the entire range Magic: the Gathering to friends and family, several of whom again will be joining me at this weekend's Oath of the Gatewatch prerelease.  Elaine's article was magnificently written and inspires continued confidence in Wizards and the Magic brand.  Best regards,

-Brian Kelly

I think in this case it was a good thing to add the credentials, basically for the reason you described. Your explanation of how Vintage players still crack product and participate in other formats was spot on. Also, I think people forget that even those of us who do not crack new product can still generate more revenue for a store owner off a single high end purchase than many customers will generate in a year of buying sealed product. Even if Wizards doesn't directly see any of that money, our purchases still fund the store and help it continue existing and purchasing sealed product.
25  Eternal Formats / Workshop-Based Prison / Re: Sideboarding with Workshop Aggro on: January 14, 2016, 04:17:21 pm
I still prefer Relic of Progenitus over Tormod's Crypt.  Maybe I'm just greedy, but the ability to draw a card was always invaluable to me.

I have something of a preference for Relic as well, just because you can run it out earlier and start chewing away at the 'yard incrementally without having to one shot sac it. The card draw is also nice.

Rich Shay's top 8 champs list from this year featured no crypts and like 3 or 4 relics...Im not in a position to confirm the exact number, but I'm certain it was there.
26  Eternal Formats / Northeast U.S. / Re: N.Y.S.E. Open IV - Power Eight, Workshops & Drains Tournament - 6/4/16 on: January 13, 2016, 04:02:37 pm
For those that pre-register, if something should come down the pipe that caused either the event to be cancelled, or the location or date to otherwise be changed, would you issue a refund?

27  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Is Your Current Vintage Deck Proxy Free? on: January 13, 2016, 03:52:20 pm
My workshops deck is fully powered, Mentor is currently missing Timewalk, as far as power. I am currently missing more blue duals than I am power cards at the moment.

I don't know of too many Vintage players in CT, I have a buddy who is fully powered for dredge, and I believe Tom Dixon is in the area as well, but I am not sure what he does or does not have. I have interacted with other CT Vintage players, and they were all in the proxy power camp.

Just because I have power though doesn't mean I automatically bring it out. I have proxied mine so that when I go to Vintage FNM at the Geekery, or smaller events, I don't put wear on the cards or put them at risk by bringing them out into the world.
28  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: WotC cracking down on proxies, even in non-sanctioned events on: January 13, 2016, 09:01:47 am
Just wanted to add that Will Magrann is not the only exception. I was able to build up a collection over time by saving and now play without proxies. Although to be fair, I did it before the most recent spike. I can't thank the NE community enough for helping me along. To anybody still getting it together, know that the community is certainly willing to help!

I second this. There are a lot of good people and resources out there, and while it will never be cheap, it can still be relatively cheap.
29  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: WotC cracking down on proxies, even in non-sanctioned events on: January 12, 2016, 03:19:15 pm
What is to stop your local store of advertising vintage tournaments, with no mention of Proxy's whatsoever and a simple "call the store if you have any questions" wink wink.  My point is this is the internet, people will find creative ways to sell/advertise things,  Just ask any "Ski Equipment" add on craigslist.  Wizards hasn't profited from the sale of a black lotus since the last sealed box of unlimited left their shelves the better part of 25 years ago, if this is some preemptive attempt at an attack on the reserved list I highly doubt this is the route they would take

So I could see this being a preemptive attack on the reserved list, in that maybe if they crack down on the proxy tournaments and make it harder to play Vintage, that the players will make enough noise or something to get reprints of these cards.

Personally I would prefer that they just reprint everything, and have my collection take a hit in value in exchange for having more events to play in. I bought in to play, with just the hope that if I ever had to sell out I wouldn't get killed. I'm sure if they reprinted we would all lose some value, but ultimately our power cards are still really rare, and nothing can change that. And if they reprinted and drove demand, it might end up raising the value of our portfolios because an increased population of players might lead to an increase in the number of players who want to trade up to the original issue power.

In regards to the ski equipment posting, it is likely a euphemism for cocaine.
30  Eternal Formats / Northeast U.S. / Re: The Comic Book Depot 1/24/16 $1,000 Vintage Credit Tournament! on: January 12, 2016, 01:26:08 pm
I'm going to try and make it down from Connecticut for this
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