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1  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: GWSx: Dark Confidant fueled Ritual combo on: June 24, 2008, 04:03:06 am
@Duncan:
Quote
You've cut 2 Basic lands, 1 MD Bounce and replaced some 3 1cc and 1 3cc spells with 3 2cc and 1 4cc spell.
Yes, but I have also added Tolarian Academy instead of the 3rd Cabal Ritual to support Gifts/Recoup.

My Sideboard was only a suggestions without specifying the metagame. I just choose cards which are flexible and good in many matchups (EtW, Extirpate, Pithing Needle). Sure, if you have a Workshop heay meta you should add some additional Hurkylīs Recallīs and if there is a lot of Ichorid you should add some Jailers or Crypts.
2  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: [Results] Eudemonia Mox Sapphire [6/22] on: June 23, 2008, 10:49:06 am
Quote
2 Savanah Lion
2 Isamaru, Hound of Konda

Try Cursecatcher in Combo/Control metas, heīs great.
3  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: GWSx: Dark Confidant fueled Ritual combo on: June 23, 2008, 10:29:39 am
So my current list looks like this:

3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tolarian Academy
5 Moxen
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
4 Dark Ritual 
2 Cabal Ritual

4 Dark Confidant
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Night's Whisper

1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence
1 Yawmoth's Will
1 Burning Wish
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Duress
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Recoup
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Tendrils of Agony

Sideboard suggestion:
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Meltdown
1 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Timetwister
2 REB
2 Extirpate
2 Pithing Needle

So thatīs the list I mentioned above but:
- Ponder
+ Tolarian Academy

I currently think that Ponder has to go in such a R-splashed build as I usually donīt want to fetch for the Island only to play a Wasteland save Ponder. I always wanted to have Swamp out first for Confidant, Nights Whisper and Duress.

In fact I did not change Ponder to Tolarian but:

Cabal Ritual/Island/Swamp/Flooded Strand --> Acadamy/Volcanic/Badlands/Bloodstained Mire
Ponder/Timetwister/Imperial Seal/Chain of Vapor ---> Burning Wish/Gifts Ungiven/Recoup/Nightīs Whisper

On paper it looks like a slower version with an instable mana base but I recommend to take it into account as it now offers stronger single cards,
outs to Extirpate and friends, preboard solutions to specific matchups and stronger sideboard options.

By the way: Deviant from 13NoVaīs experiences Dark Confidant did not attack my oponents very often to reduce the life total for a smaller Tendrils as they either counter or destroy him immediatly or I couldnīt attack because of potential blockers. I mostly used him as card drawing machine and chump blocker.

Stormanimagus: I also think that your list is a complete different approach in comparison to 13Novaīs build. But for my taste Dark Confidant/Nightīs Whisper always comes together with a full set of Moxen for a potential strong first turn. I donīt like to play Dark Ritual into Duress/Thoughtseize and Dark Confidant/Nightīs Wisper as it will not create card advantage.
Also I donīt see Leyline Of The Void maindeck without having an established metagame, yet. In a heavy Ichorid meta this could certainly make sense but I think itīs too early to do that.
You should definately test Divining Top also in your list as it is strong of itīs own and can be broken when you have two of them and plenty of mana to create a lethal tendrils.

Has anyone tried to play Mediate/Cruel Bargain/Infernal Contract instead of Dark Confidant for immediate card advantage?






4  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: GWSx: Dark Confidant fueled Ritual combo on: June 23, 2008, 08:06:54 am
I played a similar deck in Oct. 07 to a Top 8 finish but I had a R splash for Artifact hate and REBīs after sideboarding. You should also test this and include Burning Wish as some cards could be very strong out of the sideboard (e.g. EtW, Meltdown, Pyroclasm, Massacre, Cabal Therapy, Mindtwist, Thoughtseize, Timetwister). Also donīt forget that Extirpate on Tendrils will not be "Game Over" any more.

Using 13NoVa list I would also test:

- Island
- Swamp
+ Volcanic Island
+ Badlands
- 2 Flooded Strand
+ 2 Bloodstained Mire
I think that one basic land each is sufficient for most metas.

- Timetwister (good enough in the sideboard)
+ Burning Wish

A red splash will also make Recoup and Gifts Ungiven possible again. This change should also be tested as well:

- 2nd Chain of Vapor (why two of them?)
- Imperial Seal (donīt know what else)
+ Gifts Ungiven
+ Recoup

Gifting into Recoup/Will/Ritual/Lotus is often game winning. Such a version should certainly also add Tolarian Academy.


My impression is that this deck has a critical mass of mana. In the first 1-3 turns you need every mana on the table for Dark Confidant, Nightīs Whispher and Divining Top and donīt want to spend Dark Ritual or Cabal Ritual for these "small effects". But after you have resolved these card drawers for a couple of turns you have more than enough mana available.
Thatīs why I will also test:
- 3rd Cabal Ritual (not needed 1-2 Turn)
+ 3rd Nights Whisper (7th 2CC Card drawer for Turn 1-2)
Also without Brainstorm its harder to get threshhold for Cabal Ritual in the first turns.

Some cards which do not fit in the deck only because of space reasons: 4th Whisper, 3rd Divining Top, Minds Desire, Imperial Seal, one Cabal Therapy, 3rd Cabal Ritual, 7th fetchland

If the Metagame is not Wasteland contaminated I estimate that a version with R-splash can be stronger because you play more broken cards.







5  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: So Few Insane Plays - The Vintage Apocalypse: Demolition Slated For 6/20/08 on: June 20, 2008, 02:31:30 am
Sorry for posting off topic:

Quote
2007 VINTAGE WORLD CHAMPION

Quote
There is a reason why Stephen Menendian is the Vintage Worlds Champion!

Letīs be objective and fair to non US-players and call it like it is:  Vintage Championship
To be World Champion you have to compete with more than a handful of non-US players.

Thanks

6  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Post Brainstorm Restriction Slaver on: June 06, 2008, 06:55:39 am
Quote
It seems like there is alot of wheel reinvention in this thread.

I donīt think this is wheel reinvention rather than having an open minded discussions about cards and strategies which were not viable before the 6/1 restrictions.
My opinion is that it is the right time not only to dig out but to rethink of some "old" deck concepts which were not competitive in a Flash/Gush meta.

The reason why I have opened this topic is not to discuss about a standard CS list replacing Brainstorms. But when you include SDT into a list (and this is definately a reasonable choice in CS) you should always check if Dark Confidant can also fit into the strategy and mana curve of that deck. As Nightīs Whisper was played in many CS builds to close the CC2 gap and to fuel your hand and I want to discuss if Bob -could- be a better choice, even if this cannot be answered without a defined metagame.

I will replace one Bob and the Merchant Scroll with Tormodīs Crypt and Gorilla Shaman and do some testing with it. One problem every blue deck has to face now is the amount of blue cards. My current build has only 17 blue cards remaining (and you donīt want to pitch some of them) which is usually not enough. I will try out if SDT/Bob will provide enough blue cards for my taste.

Depending on the meta more Welders and/or a single Counterbalance can be useful (at least in the sideboard).

@Zeus: With the possible comeback of CS its due time restart your Vintage career and visit some tournaments.

Bjoern
7  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Post Brainstorm Restriction Slaver on: June 04, 2008, 09:29:48 am
I donīt see the problem of high CC on paper. The average CC is 1.6. Sure, you can hit one of the Forces or Robots but I think that you can have SDT online quite fast as a 3off with all the tutors and draw spells.

Here in Europe there were a lot of TPS/Gifts decks in the past which included at least three Bobīs and they also played cards like Minds Desire, Memory Jar, Forces and even DSC, but certainly no SDT. Sure TPS has a faster clock, but when you can resolve Sensei you shouldnīt have problems to reduce the damage to <1 and have a faster clock yourself.

I also donīt think that Bob is too slow for the new meta. I played him during the last two monthīs and rarely lost a match with him on the table. You can hardly loose a game if SDT and Bob is in play for 2-3 turns. The only important requirement is that you either disrupt your oponent or keep him busy with your own threats.



8  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Post Brainstorm Restriction Slaver on: June 03, 2008, 04:05:29 pm
Possible, but I am not a friend of "dead cards" in the maindeck, also my meta is not Dredge infested which can certainly change after the restrictions. Time will tell.

I also thought about a lonely Counterbalance as you already have three Senseiīs. I need to do some testing to tune the deck.
9  Eternal Formats / Creative / [Deck] Post Brainstorm Restriction Slaver on: June 03, 2008, 09:03:44 am
As there are more than enough topics where people cry about the restriction of Brainstorm we should better think about the post Brainstorm era and try to define the new metagame together.
 
Creating new decks will certainly take some time but I immediately started to rebuild my old and beloved Slaver list as I won my first tournament with this archetype.
 
With the restriction of Brainstorm as the best unrestricted draw and library/hand manipulation spell, other under played cards will now get more attention (again).
 
I started to examine Slaver as possible "replacements" were already part of the deck OR suit in a Slaver deck very well. 

At first I would like to post my initial list:
 
PBR Slaver a.k.a. Post Brainstorm Restriction Slaver

3   Flooded Strand
3   Island
1   Library of Alexandria
3   Polluted Delta
1   Tolarian Academy
4   Underground Sea
2   Volcanic Island

1   Black Lotus
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Jet
1   Mox Pearl
1   Mox Ruby
1   Mox Sapphire
1   Sol Ring
   
4   Dark Confidant
2   Goblin Welder
1   Platinum Angel
1   Sundering Titan
   
1   Ancestral Recall
1   Brainstorm
1   Demonic Tutor
3   Duress
4   Force of Will
1   Gifts Ungiven
3   Mana Drain
1   Merchant Scroll
1   Mindslaver
1   Mystical Tutor
3   Sensei, Divining Top
4   Thirst for Knowledge
1   Time Walk
1   Tinker
1   Vampiric Tutor
1   Yawgmoth's Will
   
1   REB
1   Pyroblast
1   Duress
2   Tormodīs Crypt
1   Pithing Needle
1   Gorilla Shaman
3   Yixlid Jailer
2   Rack and Ruin
1   Hurkylīs Recall
1   Triskelion
1   Duplicant
 
New cards (only most important aspects):

Dark Confidant - One of the best draw engines at the moment. Also one of the best turn one drops Vintage can offer. His casting cost also suits very well into a Slaver hull. Bob also improves the Workshop and Control matchup.

Sensei, Divining Top - Another strong first turn drop. Manipulates the library. Hides important cards. Feeds Goblin Welder and Thirst. Mini Combo with Bob and Fetchies. Isnīt this enough?
 
The other cards are a matter of Taste. You can certainly exchange cards like Platinum Angel, Sundering Titan, Darksteel Collosus, Triskelion, Triskelavus, Duplicant, Mindslaver, Gifts Ungiven, Intuition, Merchant Scroll, Mystical Tutor, Echoing Truth, Fire/Ice, Burning Wish, Cunning Wish, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Crucible of the Worlds, Ponder, Gush, Painter, Grindstone, Gorilla Shaman,.....and many more, depending on your play style and meta game.
 
For the initial deck discussion I choose a straight build without bounce, creature removal and Wishes. Depending on the meta this has to be adjusted.
 
I have increased the land count without increasing the overall amount of mana as I think that Dark Confidant/Sensei will provide enough lands and I dislike Mana Crypt/Mana Vault in this build. Because of the inclusion of Sensei the number of artifacts has not decreased in reference to common builds.
 
The current 17/7 mana base should be enough as Dark Confidants and Sensei should smooth out your draws. Also the average casting cost of this build is low enough to support "only" 24 mana sources and four Bobīs.
 
I have also thought to have Painter/Grindstone in this deck and started with a 4/1, then 3/1 and 1/1 configuration. But in the end I felt that Painter without Blasts is not good enough for this deck and I donīt want to have Blasts maindeck at the moment.
 
Null Rod worries me a bit, so I will try to squeeze a Gorilla Shaman into the deck.
 
Looking forward to your comments.
 
Bjoern
10  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] Drain Servant on: May 26, 2008, 01:42:00 am
Donīt you think Grindstone would be strong in your deck?  Very Happy
11  Archives / Tournament Announcement Forum / Re: 2008 Vintage Championships in Chicago? on 8/2 on: May 20, 2008, 10:53:09 am
Quote
In reality, the 'Vintage World Champs' is just another tournament. It has terrible prize support which is the reason why there are never people from outside of the US and its local Canadian provinces playing in it. I'm sure the majority of people who play type 1 in other countries will agree with me when I say that the "Vintage World Championship" is just another tournament which has been poorly named. If I were to hold a type 1 tournament in Antartica and call it the world championship, what would people think? They'd think it's a joke, which is exactly the situation right now. In all fairness, the big type 1 tournaments in Europe have more right to be called "Vintage World CHampionship" because they are bigger and a much better prize support.

I can only speak for myself and I also think that WotC should not name it World Championship as we have a lot of good Vintage players in Europe which cannot attend the tournament because of the traveling expenses. Even if a handful of italian or spanish players are "crazy enough" to attend, the tournament, the winner should not be called "World Champion" as they will not be able to influence the metagame and the result in a significant manner.

Do you think the chance that a US player will be the next "Vintage World Champion" is the same if the tournament would be in Europe?

WotC should find a more suitable name for this tournament like US-Nationals which can be an open tournament, like in Europe.

I donīt want to offend someone with this statement but this is just my opinion of fairness.
12  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: The Paint Shop (Painterīs Servant Combo) on: May 12, 2008, 03:08:25 am
I have no time to write a detailed report Also I am not very motivated as I have not Top 8īd mostly because my metagame predictions were completely wrong. I only played against 3 blue decks and none of them loose against Bitter Ordeal (Mirror, Salvager, Null Rod Fish):

Just my 2cents:

- Don’t loose the coin toss against Workshop Decks if they start first it’ll be likely you will loose in three matches as the mana base is too light to fight against their mana denial
- Play one basic Island. I lost against Crucible/Wasteland with Painter/Brainstorm/Grindstone in my hand.
- Don’t side out too many win options against Salvagers. I was facing a lonely Salvager which beat me down for 8 rounds (no other win options for him left due to Bitter Ordeal) as I have sided out the Painter Combo and me drawing only REB/Pyro/Duress and Mana.
- Decks with 4 Confidant+ 4 Swords will outdraw you (UBW Fish)
- Itīs hard to loose against other Painter Decks without Confidant/Duress/Bitter Ordeal. In fact this build is already a anti-deck strategy against Merchant Scroll/Gush based Painter decks
- I never lost a match with Confidant in play

13  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: The Paint Shop (Painterīs Servant Combo) on: May 08, 2008, 07:16:31 am
Due to time reasons I started to focus on the Nought build and will modify the other two builds later on.

This is what I will play this Sunday:

3 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl

4 Dark Confidant
3 Trinket Mage
4 Painter’s Servant

1 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 Sensei Divining Top
1 Grindstone
1 Engineered Explosives

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyroblast
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmothīs Will
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

4 Bitter Ordeal
3 Duress
3 Shattering Spree
2 Viashino Heretic
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormodīs Crypt

I have not really tested a lot (less than 20 matches) so most of the changes/decisions came from my personal metagame prediction, experiences and a lot of goldfishing.

Mainboard explanations:

I was always fetching/searching for red sources and the Sol Ring felt not very strong in this deck as it is only useful with the combo itself and the Trinket Mages.  I don’t want to go down to 22 ― mana sources with the Lotus Petal, therefore:

- 1 Sol Ring
- 1 Island (I hope that Iīll not regret this)
+ 1 Badlands
+ 1 Bloodstained Mire (red source/Bitter Ordeal)

Furthermore I wanted to have a CotV 1 insurance, so I added:

+ Engineered Explosives

which can also be handy in other situations (mana denial, Oath of Druids, other creatures…) Unfortunately I didn’t found room for it, so Iīll play 61 cards  Sad

These are candidates to cut from the main deck but I am still undecided:

Dark Confidant – You don’t need a 2nd one but 1-2 turn Confidant is strong in many matchups
Pyro/REB – weak in some matchups but I think 6 Blasts is the right number
Stifle – situational / matchup dependent card but nevertheless backbone of the strategy (mana denial/Nought)
Off Colour Mox – see Dark Confidant, although not strong with all the 1 mana spells I don’t want to go down to 22 mana sources

Sideboard explanations:

Bitter Ordeal - is a metagame decision in the same way as Jester’s Cap is strong at the moment. Many Tier 1 decks only play 2-3 win options. A deck with 4 Waste effects, 6 Fetchlands, a Lotus (+3 Trinket Mages is made for this card. It is not very difficult to storm for 2-3 with it. Resolving this should be “Game Over” for Oath, Flash and Storm decks. Iīll let you know how many players need to read the card when I announce it  Very Happy I play this over Leyline/Crypt as there is no Dredge in my Meta.

Duress – In the initial concept I had the remaining Blasts in this slot but I was always anxious for non-blue bombs like Oath of Druids or Yawgmothīs Will. Due to space/efficiency reasons I will side out the Painter/Grindstone combo, so Blasts will only target blue spells after boarding anyway.

Shattering Spree – Best Anti-Workshop card if you have enough red sources

Viashino Heretic – I wanted to have Artifact removal with casting cost >1 due to CotV (yes I know the ruling of replicate but you donīt have unlimited red sources and trading 1:1 is not good enough). Rack and Ruin can also be used but I choose Heretic because of Thorn of Amethyst.

Tormodīs Crypt –against decks which heavily rely on the graveyard, but this should be self-explanatory

Pithing Needle – mostly because of Goblin Welder, but certainly also other possible targets like Basar, Salvager or whatever

Engineered Explosives – “all-rounder” and 15st slot…

This list nearly ignores Hate/Goblin decks, but this is my metagame decision. Iīll try to race them with Nought or the combo itself in case I will get paired against them. With 2x Explosives, Crypt and Needle I have a minimal disruption in case there is a Dredge deck on Sunday, but I hope that I will not get paired against it…

I will try to make notes and write a tournament report as I think everyone is interested how Painter`s Servant performs and what is the most suitable hull for it.

Stay tuned…

14  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Improving on Deez Noughts on: April 25, 2008, 06:16:45 am
I recommend to try a Painterīs Servant version like I have posted in my thread:

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=35698.0

Itīs highly disruptive with a combo finish. Certainly its not very aggressive but you canīt have everything.
15  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: The Paint Shop (Painterīs Servant Combo) on: April 25, 2008, 02:50:51 am
Quote
I'd run more grindstones however, as well as some method of removing any kind of anti decking card such as Gaea's blessing.

Running only one Grindstone is just my way of reducing "useless" cards in a deck. I would prefer to run more ways to find it in case I realize that my builds need to have a faster clock.
No deck currently runs Blessing main at the moment, so I donīt have to fight against it in the first game (also there is Stifle in the Naught build). The only card which comes to my mind which could be a problem for the Grindstone kill is Krosan Reclamation which you can fight with mana denial.

Quote
There is no reason why the deck cannot be mono-brown with a red splash to support blasts instead of running Spheres and CotV. In fact, the REBs can very nicely protect the two card combos which allows you to outrace the control/combo decks.

I donīt say it doesnīt work but I just started with other approaches right now. As 9sphere/CotV and SoFI is not useful together with Servant & Blasts there must be a very different approach to the Red Workshop idea. I personally donīt like to play a Workshop Deck without 9Sphere/CotV as your matchup against Fast combo decks will get weaker without them. Also if you donīt have the Servant in play you will be destroyed by Null Rod.

I started to test the Naught build:
I like it so far but I am always short on coloured (especially red) mana. I will add one Badland in addition or replacing either Island or Sol Ring. I often use the Blast as Vindicateīs and beat down with the dorks without needing the Grindstone. As I often wished for the blasts during testing the remaining two will definately be in the sideboard.

16  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: The Paint Shop (Painterīs Servant Combo) on: April 24, 2008, 08:53:15 am
I donīt think that a mono brown shell with all kind of two card comboīs will be very solid. IMHO you should always focus on one main winning strategy. I am afraid that putting 2-3 different comboīs into one deck will give you a lot of bad draws. Also your opponent has only to answer a couple of your spells to make you having a bunch of useful cards in play/hand.

To my opinion you should always play the painter together with 4-8 blasts in the main deck and some more in your sidebord. They are awesome with the Servant in play and even without him strong against most of the Tier 1 decks.

But even if you use a MonoR Workshop shell to include the Blasts for discruption/destruction they terribly interact with 9Sphere and CotV.

I will leave the drafting board and put at least the Naught and the Slaver list together and do some testing with it. On paper the Slaver looks more stable and the Naught more focused to me.

Iīll try to find that out, also taking into account my meta which is usually quite balanced:
20% Oath
20% Fish & other hate
20% Aggro Workshop
20% Fast Combo (Flash & Long variants)
20% Misc. (Bomberman,GAT,Goblins,Staxx...)
0% Dredge

In any case I will play Painterīs Servant in the next tournament to try something new.
17  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: The Paint Shop (Painterīs Servant Combo) on: April 23, 2008, 08:50:40 am
I have tried to put over a control hull and came up with three different deck ideas based on three known deck strategies.
I would appreciate to get your opinion about my lists:

ENSLAVED SERVANT
1   Tolarian Academy
3   Polluted Delta
3   Flooded Strand
3   Underground Sea
4   Volcanic Island
1   Island
1   Mox Pearl
1   Mox Jet
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Ruby
1   Mox Sapphire
1   Black Lotus
1   Mana Crypt
1   Sol Ring
1   Lotus Petal
   
1   Darksteel Colossus
3   Goblin Welder
4   Painterīs Servant
1   Ancestral Recall
4   Brainstorm
1   Demonic Tutor
4   Force of Will
1   Grindstone
1   Mindslaver
1   Mystical Tutor
2   Pyroblast (or X)
2   Red Elemental Blast (or X)
4   Thirst for Knowledge (or X)
3   Thoughtseize (or X)
1   Time Walk
1   Tinker
1   Vampiric Tutor
1   Yawgmoth's Will
X   Duress/Thoughtseize/Merchant Scroll/REB/Pyroblast/Mana Drain/Gifts Ungiven

NAUGHTY SERVANT   
3   Underground Sea
3   Volcanic Island
1   Island
3   Polluted Delta
2   Flooded Strand
3   Wasteland
1   Strip Mine
1   Mox Pearl
1   Mox Jet
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Ruby
1   Mox Sapphire
1   Black Lotus
1   Sol Ring
   
4   Dark Confidants
4   Painterīs Servant
3   Trinket Mage (or X)
1   Phyrexian Dreadnaught
1   Sensei, Divining Top
1   Grindstone
1   Ancestral Recall
4   Brainstorm
4   Force of Will
4   Stifle
1   Time Walk
1   Demonic Tutor
1   Vampiric Tutor
3   Red Elemental Blast (or X)
3   Pyroblast (or X)
1   Yawgmothīs Will
X   Duress/Thoughtseize/Merchant Scroll/REB/Pyroblast/Dreadnaught/Illusionary Mask/Daze/Trickbind/Mystical Tutor/Tinker/Trinket Mage

GIFTED SERVANT   
1   Tolarian Academy
3   Polluted Delta
3   Flooded Strand
3   Underground Sea
3   Volcanic Island
2   Island
1   Mox Pearl
1   Mox Jet
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Ruby
1   Mox Sapphire
1   Black Lotus
1   Mana Crypt
1   Sol Ring
1   Lotus Petal
   
4   Dark Confidant
4   Painterīs Servant
1   Darksteel Colossus
1   Vampiric Tutor
1   Mystical Tutor
1   Time Walk
1   Demonic Tutor
1   Ancestral Recall
4   Brainstorm
1   Gifts Ungiven
4   Force of Will
1   Grindstone
1   Tinker
1   Recoup
3   Merchant Scroll (or X)
1   Yawgmothīs Will
2   Red Elemental Blast (or X)
2   Pyroblast (or X)
2   Mana Drain (or X)
X   Duress/Thoughtseize/Merchant Scroll/Mana Drain/REB/Pyroblast

The Slaver version offers the best draw engine and the best win option beside the combo itself. Also you have a good use for your Servant no. 2 to 4 with TFK. But Slaver is not known to be very fast.
The mana denial strategy of the Naught deck looks interesting as well, as you can support this strategy with your blasts when the Painter is in play and you donīt have access to the Grindstone.
But I think all three strategies are viable and itīll come down to your meta and your play style.

There are a couple of questions which I would like to address to this forum as I am unsure which is the best way to go:

1. What do you think is best combination of Blasts/Duress/Thoughtseize/Scroll/Drains per deck?

2. Do you think the Colossus is needed in the Slaver/Gifts build? If not - other suggestions?

3. I would like to include Merchant Scrolls into the Slaver list to smooth the mana curve. Suggestions? If you find room it should also include Gifts Ungiven, then.

4. I see that Academy Ruins is strong in here (especially in the Slaver build) but I donīt find room for it. What do you think?

5. As you see there is neither Lotus Petal nor Mana Crypt in the Naught build due to space reasons. Do you thing at least one of these cards belong in here? If so - what would you take out?

6. I have completely disregarded removal/bounce/wishes in my lists due to the Servant/Blasts mini combo. Do you think this can work?

I am looking forward receiving your answers/opinions.

Bjoern







18  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: The Paint Shop (Painterīs Servant Combo) on: April 23, 2008, 02:46:43 am
Thanks for all of your suggestions!

I also feel that this deck needs something to refuel your hand with all of these card disandvantage tutors and Dark Confident is already one of my favorite cards, so i will try to fit him in. The average casting cost of this deck will also be low to support this.

I aggree that Servant/Grindstone is slower than other combo like Flash or Tendrils decks so I will try to put it into a new shell.
But I donīt like the idea to put Painterīs servant into an aggro control/hate deck as both parts of the combo are not very aggressive at all. The only useful aggro shell would agree on is a Trinket mage/Dreadnaught list similar to DeezNaughts or Dark Illusions.

 I will redesign my list from combo to combo-control like the european gifts/intuitive shells using Dark Confident to refuel.

Within this shell Merchant Scroll is also very strong. Itīs strong anyway but with Painter in play iīll be ridiculous strong (thanks Corey)

Using a combo-control shell the 5C (Oath sideboard) mana base becomes awful so I will use the 4C mana base including ponder.

IMHO you donīt need bounce in the main as you have the 8 "blast everything" effects in the main as soon as the painter enters play and I donīt see any threads (except Chalice 2) which need to be bounced before.

A plan B card like Colossus, Trinketnaught (or even a Welder shell)l should also be the way to go. This will also answer the Chalice problem.

I will rework this list removing the combo parts (bad tutors/SSG/LED/5C mana base) and add the 4C land base and a combo-control package (Dark Confident/Merchant Scroll,Plan B card(s)).

Even REB/Pyro are generally strong Vintage(mainboard) it could be better to decrease the total amount to 4-6 to be more flexible against other decks like Workshop/Dredge. You can leave the rest of the blast in the sideboard for control/combo matchups.

I will rework my list accordingly and come back in a couple of hours. Stay tuned...

19  Eternal Formats / Creative / The Paint Shop (Painterīs Servant Combo) on: April 22, 2008, 11:09:39 am
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=35664.0

This is my initial decklist using Painterīs Servant in a combo hull:

The Paint Shop V1.0
4   Painterīs Servant
1   Grindstone
4   Force of Will
4   Brainstorm
4   Ponder / Street Wraith
4   Red Elemental Blast
4   Pyroblast
1   Enlightened Tutor
1   Mystical Tutor
1   Vampiric Tutor
1   Demonic Tutor
1   Imperial Seal
1   Yawgmothīs Will
1   Tinker
1   Ancestral Recall
1   Time Walk
   
4   Simian Spirit Guide
1   Lionīs Eye Diamond
1   Lotus Petal
1   Black Lotus
1   Mox Sapphire
1   Mox Jet
1   Mox Ruby
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Pearl
1   Sol Ring
1   Mana Crypt
1   Mana Vault
1   Tolarian Academy
4   Forbidden Orchard
2   City of Brass
4   Gemstone Mine

I would like to explain some card choices:

Multicolloured Mana Base - I plan to have a Oath transformational sideboard (but im not sold on that). Also there is a lot of Oath in my meta. Perhaps I will go back to Duals/Fetchies during testing as this build does not offer the Brainstorm(Ponder)/Fetchland "combo".

4 Simian Spirit Guides - against Flash/Stax and as a mana trick in general

1 Grindstone (only) - worst stand alone card in the deck - as soon as you have the Servant out you can also switch to control mode until you find the next tutor or the stone itself.

Please feel free to comment my current build as I plan to play Servant combo on the next tournament and your suggestions are welcome.

This is a useful Legacy topic about Painterīs Servant:
http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9277&page=4

20  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Shadowmoor predictions - vroman on: April 22, 2008, 10:42:11 am
I wasnīt aware of these topics as they both started to discuss about Painterīs Servant only a couple of hours ago. But I donīt think that Workshop prison will be the best place for him. Also they do not focus on the Grindstone kill, so I will start a new topic in the development forum to abuse him in a combo hull.
21  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Shadowmoor predictions - vroman on: April 22, 2008, 10:14:14 am
Why does nobody mention Painterīs Servant?

Together with Grindstone youīll have a non-graveyard-based two card combokill which costs 1+2(+3) mana. You can also play up to 16 Blasts to counter/destroy everything in instant speed as soon as Painterīs Servant is in play. At least you can use REB/Pyro as they help to resolve the combo and they are not worthless without the Servant in a blue meta.

Throw in the usual tutors/FOWīs/BS/Ponder and the Power 8 and you have a new deck.

I always wanted to abuse the Blasts and the Servant is the best option. I have already finished my V1.0 for Vintage and Legacy. My opinion is that this card is even stronger in Legacy but as I am a true Vintage player I will try to fit this into a Vintage skeleton as well.
22  Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: How to sideboard with WGDX on: August 20, 2006, 01:43:16 pm
Thanks for your suggestions! The deck Iīve listed is certainly a control orientated version of WGDX, including Life and another land (for Vault).

I certainly see that Vault fits perfectly to DA and RtR and can be nuts, but I always opt for the most stable version, even if I give up one turn in goldfishing. The reason is, that I am a control player to the core, but this is my personal problem...

But I see that this is the wrong strategy for WGDX (altough I made T8 twice with it) if you want to battle faster combo. Especially if you go for the last DA in the main and the Tinker plan in the side you desperately need the Vault.

I will test a BU version as suggested.

But please donīt underestimate LftL. If they are packed with hate in game 2 they cannot compete against three cards cards per turn. LftL won me the game not only once because of cardadvantage. With this build, and this is especially very useful in Game 2-3 when one Duress is not enough, you can outdraw your opponent and be the reactive player. This sounds weird for WGDX but you can draw cards in your mainphase, build up you mana base and kill them either in react if they do something or kill them with a full hand and a lot of mana in your main phase (turn 8-10). If the opponent does not follow his own gameplan and oversideboards (which happens quite often), they are helpless against card/mana advantage.

Kill:
I have never wished for another card than Stroke and without green in my deck (I hardcasted Witness a couple of times) and nearly no Oath in my meta I will keep Laquatus in the main. Which will open me two slots in the main. Do you see the requirement of a second win condition? Because Iīve pitched one of them to FoW a couple of times. But I donīt remember if I had to, because you always want to keep all the other stuff more likely, if there is one win condition left.

One last question: Why Thruth over Chain? In which situation is Echoing Thruth better than the Chain? I donīt get it.

Also, to my understanding neither Null Rod nor Chalice will greatly help against Grim Long. They are fine against IT/TPS but Long will not be stopped with only one Chalice on the board. I think I will keep the Arcane Labīs in my sideboard, especially with Laquatus as kill condition.

23  Eternal Formats / Creative / How to sideboard with WGDX on: August 18, 2006, 03:55:24 pm
First of all, I would like to thank dicemanx for his build. I never liked WGD in the past because of a shitload of dead cards if you cannot get a Bazaar online. But his build is perfectly matching with my play style...CARDDRAWING.

I would like to start a discussion about the correct sideboarding strategies for WGDX.

My actual deck is as follows:


Maindeck (60):
Spells (43):
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
3 Animate Dead
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Duress
1 Entomb
3 Necromancy
1 Ambassador Laquatus
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Cunning Wish
3 Deep Analysis
4 Force of Will
4 Intuition
3 Read the Runes
1 Eternal Witness
1 Life from the Loam
4 Worldgorger Dragon

Lands (17):
1 Bayou
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Flooded Strand
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea

Sideboard (15):
2 Chain of Vapor
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Repeal
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Sundering Titan
1 Woodripper
1 Duress
2 Xantid Swarm

As you can see I prefer a more controlish build including Life from the Loam, which works great for me. I have not lost my board to any hate effects, because this build often wins in the midgame because of pure card advantage caused by Life from the Loam.

I started to play Chalice in the side instead of the Labīs but I was destroyed by Grim Long (and it is also not a walk in the park against TPS), therefore I will switch to Ambassador in the main (nearly no Oath in my Meta) and to Arcane Lab in the side. I have also added the last Duress for more Fast Combo hate which is the worst matchup to my understanding.

My Meta (Iserlohn in Germany) consists of the following:

50-80 Player (70-80% powered)
30% Staxx
15% TPS
10% Gifts
10% Fish (any kind, mostly UBW and UGW)
5 % CS
5% GrimLong
5% Food Chain
20% miscellaneous (Oatch,Salvager,2-Land,3CC,Dragon...)

This is how I would like to sideboard and I would like to start a discussion about this:

Staxx:
out: 3 Duress, 1 Dance, 1 Entomb, 1 Force
in: 3 Deed, 1 Woodripper, 1 Chain, 1 Repeal
I am not quite sure if I should keep the combo parts for more Forces from the maindeck

TPS/Long:
out: 1 Dance, 1 Entomb, 1 Life, 1 Deep Analysis
in: 3 Arcane Lab, 1 Duress
Should if realy side out Entomb against fast combo?

Gifts/CS:
out: 1 Dance, 1 Entomb, 1 Life, 1 off colour Mox
in: 1 Duress, 2 Xantid Swarm, 1 Sundering Titan
I am not happy removing a Mox but what else?

Fish
out: 2 Deep Analysis, 1 Entomb, 1 Animate Dead
in: 3 Pernicious Deed, 1 Sundering Titan
no bounce from the side but what else to cut?

As you can see I seldomly side in the bounce because of space issues against Tier1 decks, but I would not like to destroy my gameplan because of oversideboarding.

Any suggestions? Thank you very much for your appreciated help.

MMD



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