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1531  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: The Mountains Win Again on: September 23, 2007, 06:59:35 am
Thorn of Amethyst   
Artifact   Rare
Noncreature spells cost   more to play.

This will be going in my mono-red Atog version.  Probably 4 of them.  I think with these in the deck, Trinisphere becomes redundant, so that will make one space.  Not sure what else I'll take out.  But this definately makes my Atog more happy.


1532  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: The Mountains Win Again on: September 21, 2007, 03:48:02 pm

In general, I'd like to know why you think board-based lock parts are better than discard and targeted removal.  For example, you don't even seem to have any maindeck answers to a single large Quirion Dryad aside from dumping your board into an Atog.  Has that plan worked for you?

I would really like some exposition on matchups as well as some card-specific info.

Sure, Iíd be happy to.


2(3)   Goblin Tinkerer    
4   Gorilla Shaman  

The day of the tournament I dropped the Wheel of Fortune for a third Goblin Tinkerer.  I wasnít sure about the decision.  It didnít hurt me that day, and your point about Gush decks is well taken.  Anyway, I anticipated Stax being more of a force at the tournament than it actually was.  Obviously the Shaman are Mox and Sol Ring eaters.  The Tinkerers I put in to blow up stuff like Crucible of Worlds and Platinum Angel.  Originally, I had 3 Goblin Vandals in the deck instead, but the fact that they had to attack and their ability prevented their damage made them less appealing to me.  Since Tinkerers can block a sliver and live, I decided to start them.  That, and they help me get around a Chalice of the Void set at 1.  I wanted 6-7 cards that could blow up artifacts in this deck, and these are the cards I chose to do it.

3   Magus of the Moon  

I only chose to play three Magus of the Moon for several reasons.  First, heís a little expensive.  If I have trouble with getting mana sources in play, heís a dead card.  Second, he isnít all that strong against Stax (which I thought Iíd see a lot more of than I did).  By playing three, I still got one nearly every game that I wanted them, but I also avoided getting two in my opening hand.  Heís a bomb in Vintage, and since Gush and Ichorid are taking over the meta, maybe increasing him to 4 would be a good idea.  Iím not sure  though.

4   Atog    

The Atog is my finisher.  He can ping away for one damage for several turns, then in one fell swoop I can sacrifice 5-6 artifacts and wipe out my opponent.  Or, I can just sac one artifact a turn, and wear him down bit by bit.  It depends on how much bounce I think heís running.  Anyway, I held off an opponent from attacking with a 6/6 dryad in one game and a 5/6 Tarmogoyf in another just because I had an Atog in play with about 6 artifacts at my disposal.

4   Simian Spirit Guide

The key for this deck, at least the way I play it for now, is speed.  Lotus Petal was restricted for a reason, and the SSG gives me essentially 4 extra copies of it.  I donít even have to cast it like the petal which neatly dodges the Pyrostatic Pillar and Sphere of Resistance.  Also, in a pinch, Iíve hard casted him (yes, even in Vintage) to block slivers or to add an aggro threat vs. another deck.  For me, he is an incredibly versatile card.


3   Raze    
1   Wheel of Fortune  

Like I said, I took the Wheel of Fortune out for the tournament, and it looks like that was a good choice.  In addition to thinking about Stax, I was worried about my match ups with Ichorid and Oath.  Raze gave me a way of dealing with both.  Since I really only need one red mana backed up by artifact mana to run this deck, I can sacrifice off my lands to blow up my opponentsí.  Bazaar of Bagdad, Forbidden Orchard, and the Dual Lands are the usual targets for this spell.  Against Ichorid, it really shuts them out.  Against GAT, it helps me deny them a particular color they need to either cast their Dryad or their Tutors.  Added with the Wastelands and Strip Mine, I have 8 main deck cards that can blow up a land if I need to.  And since it only costs one red mana, itís still affordable with a Sphere of Resistance on the board.


4   Pyrostatic Pillar

Since Gush and most decks rely a lot on cheap tutors and draw spells, I included Pyrostatic Pillar.  When itís on the board, the GAT player has to wait for a bounce spell to go off.  If I get this out on the first turn, it makes playing Moxen very unattractive.  I consider this spell to be one of my major sources of damage.


4 Black Vise

This is another one of my major damage sources.  Against Ichorid, if I can blow up his Bazaar early, heís going to be stuck with 6-7 cards in hand the rest of the game.  One or two Black Vises suck up his life really fast.  If I have Sphere of Resistance and/or Pyrostatic Pillar in play, it also hits opponents really hard since they have to hold their spells.  At 1 mana, this thing is easily castable first turn and a nice compliment to all my other damage sources.

2 Pithing Needle

This is here mainly for matchups against Ichorid and Bomberman.  Although, I have used it to shut down cards like Polluted Delta, Flooded Strand, and Psychatog.  I figured it would be decent vs. Goblin Welders as well, but like I said earlier, I didnít play Stax once.  I did use it vs. Arcbound Ravager, though.

4   Sphere of Resistance    
1   Trinisphere

Vs. GAT, these cards really shut down their engine.  I thought about running Defense Grid as well to stop counterspells, but it was just overkill IMO.  Sphere of Resistance is easy to get out turn one.  With all my mana sources, I can afford to be patient.  GAT and Ichorid run much fewer mana sources, so it hurts them a lot more than me.  

1   Lotus Petal    
1   Mana Crypt    
1   Mox Emerald    
1   Mox Jet    
1   Mox Pearl    
1   Mox Ruby    
1   Mox Sapphire  
1   Sol Ring
1   Black Lotus  

The key to this deck, IMO, is speed.  But in this case, a particular kind of speed.  I want to get my permanents out before my opponent does.  Only three cards in this deck arenít permanents, so if I get them in play, they are going to have a lasting effect on the game.  Lotus Petal and Black Lotus give me extra colored mana on the first turn.  The Moxen help me cast all my 1 or 2 mana cost artifacts on turn 1.  And the Sol Ring and Mana Crypt help me power out a Trinisphere or Magus of the Moon right off the bat.  Turn one is critical for this deck, and all the artifact mana really help me make the most of it.  If the artifact mana ever becomes too redundant or the Mana Crypt becomes a liability, I have my Atog to eat them and convert early speed into late damage.  They have nice really synergy together.


4   Great Furnace    
6   Mountain    
1   Strip Mine    
4   Wasteland  

Iím not sold on the Great Furnace yet.  Although I will say it is nice to have to sac to the Atog if I have him in play.  Counting them, I have a total of 24 artifacts in this deck.  Thatís a lot of permanents I can convert into damage with my Atog.  I run 6 mountains.  Through experimenting, Iíve found that any less makes it hard to get a red producing land in my opening hand.  Even though I donít need a lot of red, I still need some to make sure I can play everything right away.  The Strip and Wastes are just solid all around.  5 ways to blow up a dual land is nice.

Sideboard     (15 cards)
3   Ensnaring Bridge  
2   Active Volcano    
4   Pyrokinesis    
1   Red Elemental Blast    
1   Pyroblast  
1   Pithing Needle    
3   Tormod's Crypt  

My sideboard is eclectic, and probably needs some revision.  I have the Ensnaring Bridges in there vs. Oath and potentially GAT.  My hand usually stays between 3-5 cards, so they are a decent option in preventing big creatures from attacking.  The thing they donít do is win me the game.  I have to count on my Vises and Pillars for that (or rushing my opponent with a weenie hoard) when this thing is in play.  I was probably more worried about Oath than I should have been.

Active Volcanoes are in for Gush matchups.  They canít be Misdirected to one of my lands like a Raze can.  They just give me more ways to harass my opponent and make executing his strategy that much harder.

The Pyrokinesises are in there for Flash and Bomberman matchups.  Pyroclasm and Starstorm were too slow or too expensive, so I chose this.  Even with a Trinishpere or two Spheres of Resistance in play, itís affordable.  Plus it dodges Pyrostatic Pillar which can be important in the late game.  

The red blasts are in there to disrupt Gush, Flash, and Bomberman.  I have one of each in case they are playing a Meddling Mage.  I should probably put more in.  Every time I casted one at the tournament, it swung the game.  Theyíre pretty strong.

The extra Pithing Needle is there for Ichorid and Bomberman.  I only own three, so thatís why I have 3 total in this deck.  Iím not sure a fourth would be necessary.

Tormodís Crypt is there to respond to Yawgís Will and Ichorid.  I only used it once in the Tournament, but it won me that game.  All my opponentís Bridges from Bellow were dredged early, so I got them in one fell swoop.  Iím not convinced theyíre the best answer, but theyíre what I have for now.

As far as strategy for this deck goes, like Iíve said, turn 1 is critical.  I often have a selection of plays I could make.  The main idea is to lock the game up as soon as possible.  Trinisphere, Pyrostatic Pillar, Sphere of Resistance, and Magus of the Moon are all terrific turn 1 plays.  If I get one of these out on turn 1, I can afford to be patient with my deck.  The Spheres and Magus buy me a lot of time.  The Pillar can buy me life advantage- that way, at some point, I can play spells when my opponent is reluctant to do so.  In fact, the longer the game goes, the better and better my chances get to win.  Black Vise is also good turn 1 as it starts hitting my opponent early.   Having an advantage in the life totals is really important.  If a Gush player gets low in life, he canít use his Fastbond nearly as much.  If Black Vise wears my opponent down, then a Pyrostatic Pillar can seal his fate- even though I might not kill him for another 2-3 turns.  

Having an Atog in play is very intimidating for my opponent since he never knows when it might go off.  He has to save his bounce for that creature.  So while he waits to return my Atog, I can cast Spheres, Vises, and Pillars without fear.  As for spot removal and disruption, I'm unsure.  My Spheres, Pillars, and Magus disrupt my opponent pretty well as is and prevent the dryad from becoming too big.  My multiple damage threats and creatures put my opponent on the defensive- so he has to block with his angels and dryads.  I'm very open to suggestions, though!

I like this deck being mono color because I never get mana screwed.  And since my lands can be sacíed off to pump my Atog or destroy other lands in play, theyíre never a dead draw for me.  Every card in this deck has synergy with other cards.  Now I just need to improve it so that my wins become more consistent.

I hope this helps explain the deck better.  Thanks for being willing to critique it.  I really appreciate that.


1533  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: The Mountains Win Again on: September 20, 2007, 07:27:00 pm

I've been working on a TMWA deck sorta seperate from this site.  I really didn't know about this place and therefore took a different direction for this deck.  I was directed here by someone at the latest SCP9 tournament in Indianapolis.  I went 3-3 in that tournament before dropping due to time.  I'm very excited to see others working on a red deck for Vintage.  I think it's great.  I'd really love some feedback on my version of a mono-red control deck.  I usually top 8 in my local tournaments (8-20 people), but I think I've hit a wall with it for now.  Any feedback on how to improve it would be greatly appreciated.

4   Atog   
2   Goblin Tinkerer   
4   Gorilla Shaman   
3   Magus of the Moon   
4   Simian Spirit Guide   

3   Raze   
1   Wheel of Fortune   

4   Pyrostatic Pillar   

1   Black Lotus   
4   Black Vise   
1   Lotus Petal   
1   Mana Crypt   
1   Mox Emerald   
1   Mox Jet   
1   Mox Pearl   
1   Mox Ruby   
1   Mox Sapphire   
2   Pithing Needle   
1   Sol Ring   
4   Sphere of Resistance   
1   Trinisphere   

4   Great Furnace   
6   Mountain   
1   Strip Mine   
4   Wasteland   

Sideboard     (15 cards) 
2   Active Volcano   
1   Pyroblast   
4   Pyrokinesis   
1   Red Elemental Blast   
3   Ensnaring Bridge   
1   Pithing Needle   
3   Tormod's Crypt   

While at the tournament I beat GAT, Ichorid, and Viral Affinity.   I lost to GAT, Ichorid, and Phish.  I really like this deck, so I'm very open to feedback and criticism.  Thanks in advance!


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