ww forever:D

[Bastian]

HI THERE! Hi Steve, long time no see! Hi cid:)

I've decided to tag along since BD should be closing down. The site design looks great;)

As long as our community sticks together, it's nice to have a new site where to talk. A refreshing change:)

C A Later
Bastian aka former White Knight from Beyond Dominia

[Zherbus]

LOL!!!

Ok, just for you, Bastian. I dug up the deck I've not played in a while

This is my last White Weenie. Its as tweaked as it can get, without using wishes. The red wish is worth testing, but I think it'll be turd in this deck in the end.

" Holy Tommy Gun "
Creatures (22)
4 Savannah Lions
2 Jackal Pups
3 Gorilla Shaman
4 Order of White Shield
4 Soltari Priest
2 Soltari Monk
2 Phyrexian Warbeast
1 Masticore

Engine (8)
4 Land Tax
2 Scroll Rack
1 Zuran Orb
1 Enlightened Tutor

Removal (9)
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Seal of Cleansing
1 Balance

Mana (21)
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Diamond
9 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Plateau
SB: 1 Masticore
SB: 1 Seal of Cleansing
SB: 1 Wheel of Fortune
SB: 1 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Blood Moon
SB: 3 Cursed Totem
SB: 1 Aura of Silence

As you know, white weenie needs a second color to be effective. This deck utilizes red for some spot removal/damage, more 2/1 for 1cc, and gorilla shaman. The lone masticore in the deck can easily be tutored for and the phyrexian war beasts are the ideal 3cc critter in this deck.

Phyrexian warbeasts have excellent synergy with the draw engine of land tax, scroll rack which once in play basically just fills your hand with cheap goodies. The library of alexandria is excellent here and with the 4 land tax's gets alot more usage that most any other deck. Depending on the metagame, one might switch the maindeck masticore with the sb'd blood moon.

The wheel of fortune is there for control, oddly enough. Against this deck they will always counter the scroll rack, and bleeding out their counters then using wheel not only can net you card advantage, but also gives you another shot at setting up the engine. I dont have it maindeck in my list but in certain meta's I'd recommend it maindeck. For instance, a control/suicide filled one. Otherwise, its just unneeded once the draw engine is moving.

The deck is also amazingly resistant to Abyss, and because of the varying CC, keg isn't quite as good. The cursed totems are there for, of course, morphling and mono black that sometimes will side in masticore against you.

If there's no moxen/library/lotus available to you, just use more plains and a lone strip.

[Anonymous]

Hi there Zherbus  

I remember your WW;)

There's really I can add without repeating yourself. I think that either red or blue are the colors to add to WW. Black doesn't fit and green lacks something I need: card drawing.

Red gives WW a push with DD while blue provides brokenness and card drawing. I might try to do something later on with more blue than I usually used in WW but right now I'm after something else;)

Oh, as for the wishes... Burning and living wish are the best, I think. I would also mention cunning wish if it wasn't 3cc. The problem with Burning wish is that it will make all those good sorceries virtually cost 1R more. Sure it allows you to (once again) virtually add 4 copies of a sorcery to the deck, but for having access to it you lose tempo you need. In other words.. it's really not worth it..

[Zherbus]

LOL SIGN IN!!!!

[wuaffiliate]

here is my splashed WWr  still in prelim stages.

//NAME: HotButteredMuff
// Mana
        4 Plateau
        9 Plains
        3 Mountain
        4 Wasteland
        1 Strip Mine
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Black Lotus
// Toys
        4 Land Tax
        3 Scroll Rack
        4 Swords to Plowshares
        4 Lightning Bolt
        4 Price of Progress
        1 Wheel of Fortune
// Creatures
        4 Jackal Pup
        4 Savannah Lions
        4 Soltari Priest
        4 Soltari Monk
SB:  4 Red Elemental Blast
SB:  3 Pyroblast
SB:  3 Incinerate
SB:  1 Aura Fracture
SB:  4 Seal of Cleansing

[Bastian]

I hope I'm logged in now:( I'm having problems in trying to reply to the posts...

[Bastian]

Oh great, now I've posted junk...  

Well, at least I can reply now  

Wu, you are playing too many swords. If I was you I'd replace them for 4 Incinerates.

Price of progress is ok, but I've got mixed feelings about it since vs decks with mainly basic lands you're at a loss. Thus I'd suggest something else for the slot. I'd suggest playing more creatures here since you're very creature light.

Tax-rack combo is a bit overrated by most people. If you get it running, it's an ancestral every turn. But that's a big if. Most control players vs which you're gonna need the combo won't allow you to play both pieces of the combo, and if they do, they'll surely destroy either.

That's why you should take at least a scroll rack for some other card. You can't depend too much on getting the combo since that doesn't always happen. You should aim for it if possible, but be aware that either the rack or tax should be good on their own.

[Sylvester]

Hello there  

While we're all trying to splash colours in WW: what exactly do the White in WW/x bring?

Would a Blue/Red perform better, or are WW's 2-drops really worth the colour?

[Zherbus]

Well WW's only 'strength' is it kills other aggro. Trying to get it to kill other decks is the reasoning for splashing.

WW sucks, theres no denying it. I just wish it didn't. Judgment should have brought something useful...instead white got a handful of ass.

[Bastian]

Judgement should have brought something along the lines of Nantuko Shade for white... something like this...

Blessed Knight
creature - knight

W: Blessed Knight gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
2/1

It works EXACTLY like nantuko shade, and, it's not broken. White really needs good weenies...

[Bastian]

Ops! Forgot to post a cc for the card. Make it a WW (2 white mana) cc creature.

[Magimaster]

This is my current White Weenie that I"m toying arond with (or I will be as soon as exams are over)

4x Savannah Lion
4x Mother of Runes
4x White Knight
3x Soltari Priest
3x Soltari Monk

4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Seal of Cleansing
3x Empyrial Armor
3x Orim's Chant
1x Story Circle
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Zuran Orb

4x Land Tax
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
17x Plains (John Avon Invasion Plains)

SB://
4x Abeyance

the rest will be worked out

basically :

- I feel tax-rack in uneccesary(sp?) but I will end up trying a version with and without scroll racks.

- Orim's Chant is tech against other faster aggro, and agaisnt control can help force through something like an armor or a seal.

- Lone Tutor plus a lone Circle and a lone zorb. Rounding out. Thinking of another Zorb. This is the area that is shady at the moment.

- Thinking of adding more soltaris. Soltari + Armor = Good game. Mom's help against spot removal, even though the soltaris are immune to burn. If all else fails, I think I might go 4:2 priests instead of monks. Armor aint that bad on a White Knight either  5/5 First Strikers are damn hard to deal with.

that's what I'm toying with.

In regards to the "White" nantuko shade, I think that would be awesome! But WotC Would probably make it a 1/2 just to oppose the Nantuko, and it would suit white better. It would probably lose a little bit of effectiveness tho', but it would still warrant a shot at testing.

PeAcE

[Bastian]

As Zherbus said, and unfortunetely I must admit it... White weenie sucks. It's a nice deck, but not competitive enough. If necro was around I bet the metagame would allow for WW to make a decent show.

Either way it's a nice deck to play with. Your deck resembles my own, somewhat, but there are a few changes I feel you should make..

1- I'm not sure about armors. They win games, but then again, that just happens if your opponent allows you to cast them! Or if they don't kill the creature on the process.

2- Mother of runes is not type 1 good. It's decent, but not that good. It won't allow you to attack with it, while you use its ability, and most of your creatures should be protected from either red or black. Green and white are not very popular creature colors, mom won't help you vs tubbies/stacker variants... At the very least it should be decent to give your creatures pro:blue... I personally dislike it for type 1.

[Zherbus]

Yes, if the restricted list didn't have necro, WW would find a niche.

[LordLamneth]

An alien observer from space notices that at age 70, 52% of the earth's human population is female, and 48% is male. The observer then notes that at age 95, 85% of the human population is female, and only 15% is male.

Logical conclusion: As humans age, many of the males turn into females.


Now, take that very same (and very commonly-used) little example and apply it to our little situation:


White Weenie wrecks Sligh, Stompy, and can compete & beat pretty much any aggro deck provided that the White Weenie player has even half a clue about what they're doing. However, White Weenie loses to control and combo as much as the Devil Rays lose to the Yankees & Red Sox.

Logical conclusion: WW is Tier 3 at best, and not as good as sligh, stompy, and pretty much any aggro deck.


Using the first example, we see how illogical conclusions can be drawn from true facts. It's the same thing here.


Now we shall get to the heart of the problem. We're gonna stop scratching the surface, and get to the heart of the problem: white is undergunned, undermanned, & underpowered. Have a look at the restricted list: a whole whopping 2(! white cards have been restricted - and one of those is because of combo. Even green has much more than that, and forget about U/B/R. So we're left with Balance. Any one here ever tried to play White Weenie with Balance? It's not very good in that kind of deck, is it?

Also, let's count how many white creatures have power greater than their casting cost: Well, we've got Savannah Lions (everybody likes them!, and then...umm...there's...umm
wait, I know there's more...oh yeah, Tethered Griffin! but that's not very playable, is it     7 issues of the basic set, 26 expansions, and only 1 tournament worthy tough-ass 1-drop? All the other colors get low cost monsters, and white is supposed to compete with just 4x Lions? A black set (Torment) comes out, and black gets Nantuko Shade. A white set (Judgment) comes out, and white gets Suntail Hawk (and is happy about it, because it flies      

I remember reading something about a pie, and how every color has it's share, or something. Well, I got your [censored] pie right here  ! Blue gets counter/draw, black gets discard/draw, red gets burn, green gets fat, and white gets life gain & a million useless Disenchant clones?

Solution: print some pro-active disruption in White, and some useful fatties (NOT 6/6 Angels for 5WWW!, and let's have this discussion afterwards.

I now feel like Marty McFly after he played that guitar solo, and everybody was just looking at him like he had 3 heads    I don't want the stage anymore, somebody else talk. Agree, disagree, it's cool.

OOH, I like this song  

Cheers,

LordLamneth

[Sylvester]

Lamneth: Necro's main quality is that it WRECKS control, and definitely counts as aggro, yet, since it uses its life total so much, it's not so good vs other aggros.

IF a deck is played so much that control becomes less dominant, and in turn makes aggro decks better, wouldn't that make a deck that beats both aggro and necro good?

However, i ahve to agree that white brings almost nothing to most decks. 1 really good weenie, and tax/rack is a 2 cards combo that doesn't even win the game itself...

I guess we could try to play shahrazad-white...Cast it a lot of times, so the opponent is decked often enough to get him to 0 :/

BTW, i've been _trying_(aka, i am unsuccesful so far) to make a deck absed around balance/balancing act  If someone wants to play test it on appr (I now shuffle, cut, shuffle my deck on appr , just pm me on #bdchat.

[PsychoCid]

<3 Holy Tommy Gun :DDDD

Perhaps you need more than one color.  Maybe aim for overall card quality a little more than consistency.  Go for an SSSish thing  (Just not like finkels, finkels was   )

So like...be slightly less white weenie-ish...pack plenty of burn and nice blue stuff...gee, I guess it'd be like heavy-white Zoo of sorts.  I dunno, was just a thought.  Maybe somebody'll do something with it =P

btw, as long as we're making cards, HERE's what I want:

Holy Tommy Gun-Man (neat name or n.)
WW ~ SUMMON (cause 'Creature -' sux0rz) Knight
First Strike, Banding ~ 2/2\n\n

[LordLamneth]

Wow, I had actually created the same card in my mind since a few years ago, and always thought that that creature should have been created   .

But this is white, so it's gonna have to cost 2WW, and be a 1/2, not a 2/2. We gotta keep white from getting too big, ya know. And make it a Legend, so that there can only be one in play at a time. And since it's a Legend, it's gonna have to be rare.

Holy Tommy Gun-Man (neat name or n.)
Rare
2WW
Creature - Knight Legend
First Strike, Banding ~ 1/2

Yup, that's about the level they've been making White creatures ever since the Soltari clerics came around.

LordLamneth

[FeverDog]

I think WW is a little better than most ppl think, definetly not a top deck, but i have lost to WW enough to know it WRECKS aggro. Also, it has a better chance vs enchantment-based combo like Survival than most aggro decks.

I think a stream-line WWr deck could be competitive, probably not at NG, but perhaps in my metagame where the most prevelant control deck is Ophidian and Survival and Turboland are the most common combo decks.

[Zherbus]

In an environment where keeper is pretty much absent, my 'holy tommy gun' should clean up nicely. It was made when FoF was unrestricted and did well against mono blue. It never loses to suicide, and sligh is a yawn.

As far as keeper goes, my deck does roll over to it. So basically your playing a deck that ignores keeper (and combo) almost completely (SB has blood moon, thats about it), in order to kill everything else.

The tax rack engine with cheap critters and burn is amazing.

[Bastian]

I think zherbus deck is one of the best WW decks there currently is, although I'm trying to look out for any possible and viable variants. Stars and stripes has been doing well so far. I haven't tested vs keeper though, and I'm not expecting for it to do well vs combo, BUT...

...just how many times do you see combo? I think that zherbus deck is truly inspiring and perhaps, just perhaps I can actually make WW viable again...