Revisions to everyone's favorite, Sligh?!? ;)

[Dave Kaplan]

Onslaught made me realize some changes really need to be made to sligh, the Red Blast/Miner plan just isn't working as well as it used to, Keeper will ALWAYS find a solution. I kill their lands to disable COP, they use caltrops, I attempt to use Chimeric Idol, bad idea in the first place/Factory. I really like the Sac lands, they prevent land flood in the mid to late game, and put cards in the yard.  Fireblast is no longer viable, but it was on death row, anyway. The question is, what to do now?

So far my deck looks likes this:

4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Mox Ruby
8 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Goblin Cadets
4 Gorilla Shaman
4 Jackal Pup
1 Black Vise
4 Chain Lightning
4 Cursed Scroll
1 Fork
4 Incinerate
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
1 Wheel of Fortune
3  (Grim Lavamancer? Barb Ring?)
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 4 Dwarven Miner
SB: 4 Pyrokinesis
SB: 3 Mishra's Factory

Please leave feedback here or IM me: MagicPunt

Thanks,
Dave

[ZoneSeek]

My vote goes for the Shock on a stick. I think you'd get more use out of him than the Barb rings. He is a much more consistant damage source. Without fireblasts, it will take a long while for you to get 7 cards in your graveyard, but you should be able to turn Grimmy L into 2-6 damage in the early game. You can save Bolts in aggro matchups. He even helps in the Suicide matchup, as he can constantly take out Hippies and Negators and keep Shades at bay. His biggest weakness is his inability to deal with .

This is all just speculation, I like your changes and will probably adapt my Sligh build to match yours. I think the time is right to give Lavamancers a try.

[Azhrei]

I (dis)like this build a lot. I agree that Lavamancers are the way to go with this, and the rest of it looks nasty. I've been messing with something like this for a bit but you've made it more or less what I felt it would turn into eventually.

[TunaBoo]

For me, lavamancers felt like poor cursed scrolls. Easier to kill, and the 1 damage a turn they can do without a GY is hardly worth it.

As for me, the card I have really been having fun with is reckless charge. Gets around the abyss for 5 with a pup, or 8 if you got 5 mana open (pretty big wack). I think reckless charge is underplayed. A second turn pup - reckless is 5 extra damage for only 1 extra mana on the charge. Sure - it makes removal hurt more, but reckless charge has flashback so it should only cost you half a card rather than a whole one. *shrug*

[dandan]

Even I, from the fanatical splinter group "Sligh is a control deck', keep one Fireblast in my deck. It keeps Keeper honest to know you can burn for 10 with 2 mountains if need be and if they don't know so much the better. I know a 1 off with no search is a bit scrubbish but I don't want more than 1.

Reckless Charge is a good aggro card but I can't see it being good in a deck with only 12-15 creatures.

Dave have you tried Mishra's yet? They are mana but can also beatdown and seem much more dangerous than Barbarian Rings.

[Ric_Flair]

I am not sure exactly how you want the deck to work, but one thing that I have tried in my Sligh deck is a tip I got from one of my Irish friends, who in turn got it from his buddies still in Ireland.  With all the fetch lands in the deck you can afford a more versatile sideboard.  Just as an example here is what I am talking about:

1 Swamp
3 Diabolic Edict (for the Morphlings)
1 Forest
3 Naturalize (for Moat, TnT, and The Abyss)
3 Dwarven Miners
4 Pyroblasts

Just a thought.

Main deck I think you may need a few more creatures, but I can only thing of two: Goblin Patrol, and with more Goblins, Goblin Piledriver.  I also think that while Cursed Scroll is good at surviving, I think that the speed of the Lavamancer would give him an edge.  Also the interaction with the Fetchlands and the Lavamancer is quite good, as I have found out with my Type 2, and Ext. Sligh deck.

[Grand Inquisitor]

the irish sideboard is a nice attempt, but its really just a combo to get rid of cards you can work around.  getting 1 of 5 cards (swamp, 4 fetch) as well as 1 of 3 cards (3 diabolic) won't happen often enough early enough to make a difference.

you'd be better off with consistent red hate.  they'll just end up sitting in your hand, losing you games you would have otherwise won.

the deck looks fine though, and i agree that lavamancer is worth his salt.  i would like to hear what people say about reckless charge.  (off topic, i think i just hit 100 posts   )

[Dave Kaplan]

The Goblin Piledriver is a potent card, but the deck is easily hosed by COP:Red and Caltrops. However, if I was to build a deck like that it would look something like this:

4 Goblin Cadets
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Patrol
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Jackal Pup
2 Mogg Fanatic
3 Mogg Flunkies
4 Reckless Charge
4 Chain Lightning
1 Fork
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Bloodstained Mire
8 Mountain
1 Mox Ruby
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
SB: 4 Flaring Pain
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Mogg Salvage
SB: 4 Price of Progress\n\n

[Cartman316 _420]

This is total metagame calling here by the way, but this is what I play:

EDIT: Took the list out, it was there only as advice.

Dave: Do the fetchlands really help that much? The power of Fireblast is amazing, and I wouldn't cut it myself. I think using the fetchlands isn't the greatest idea ever. Sure, they are food for lavamancers, but that's about it.

Anyway, I have played @ NG veryyyy little, so how potent are those PoP's? And I would use Lavamancers over Barb. Ring. But, using the Fetchlands make Strip Mine on whatever you fetch that more devistating.

Anyway, more thought later.

~Cartman

[Dave Kaplan]

I will most likely be at the PTQ on saturday, but please don't spam my posts with your decklists, I'm asking for advice not lists =(

[ump]

Just a thought, but if you were running a lot of goblins, wouldn't it make sense to put Goblin Lackey over say Mogg Fanatics to help accelerate your creature development and potentially bypassing casting a Goblin Piledriver that could be countered.  Then, since you could be emptying your hand quicker, Cursed Scrolls seem like a better option, plus it's colorless damage.

[bebe]

We've been toying with the jankiest sligh you have seen:

mana - 23    
13 Mountain
4 Wasteland
3 Barbarian Ring
Strip Mine
Mox Ruby
Black Lotus
    
creatures - 12
4 Goblin Cadet
4 Jackal Pup
4 Mogg Fanatic
    
burn - 16
4 Chain Lightning
4 Incinerate
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Flame Rift

the rest - 9
4 Ankh of Mishra
3 Cursed Scroll
Wheel of Fortune
Fork

    
SideBoard
4 Flaring Pain
4 Price of Progress
4 ReB
3 Gorilla Shaman

Flame Rifts? Well they bcan't be misdirected anyway. You have Lotus for quick Ankhs only. Also bust it for Cursed Scroll or Wheel if you have to. It seems to play a bit better against a number of decks that were autolosses before - certain combo and control decks - but loses very little against aggro. I cannot use Fetchlands as the Ankhs are so harsh against them. But your opponents are using fetchlands and the Ankhs are so much better now. I would love to add pyroclasms to the side but I have nothing to remove for them.

[Rico Suave]

I like Goblin Vandal.

Even though he can't take out Caltrops, he CAN take out Mask, Dreadnought, Juggernaut, opposing Cursed Scrolls, Powder Keg, etc.  

Also a good back-up in case you REALLY need to take out Moxen/Zorb but don't get Shaman.

[Mith]

I love my fireblasts too much...so I'm running 4 Wooded Foothills and ZERO Bloodstained Mires. So far, it's been good.

[Dave Kaplan]

Fireblast is good, but it never does it's job vs. keeper. PoP is very, very good at NG since almost everyone plays keeper, or random multi-color decks. Right now I like the lavamancers main and factories board

[DigDug]

If you want to allow yourself some nonbasic lands, you could use a couple Taigas and Kird Apes.  You have eight ways to fetch a Taiga.

[Cuandoman]

...so then main 60   ... that'll learn 'em

You could also play naturalize too... wait... this is turning into a zoo deck isn't it?

Whatever works...

[MolotDET]

@bebe - Your deck is only four cards off the last posted decklist for DESligh?  Funny... how bout some props for the creator.  By the way disrupting_sPECtor was the first person I know to talk about using the Ankh in Sligh, so that would make him the originator (eventhough he thought it would only be a good SB card against Turbonevyn).

     Anyway, Dave I think you should test Ankh of Mishra before you go the fetchland route.  The Ankhs absolutely tear the ass out of any deck using fetchies.  Fireblast while it isn't the best card for the deck, does seem to have a place there.  When using Barbarian Rings with the Ankhs, 2 copies of Fireblast maindeck become the finishing move that they were always hoped to be and funnyly enough seem to lend some synergy to the deck now.
     The Lotus goes in this deck becuase you can use the mana it provides for many things in it now.  First and formost is to cast your Ankhs but hard casting fireblast has come up a few times.  You can always crack it to use a scroll, but the best thing it does is give you an extra card in the grave for Barbarian ring.

   I won't post the most recent decklist, because you said you didn't want it.

[FeverDog]

I think if i were playing at NG i would definetly prefer Mishras over Lavamancer. Mishras are uncounterable, colorless and they dodge Abyss which really helps vs Keeper. Its not that Lavamancer is bad, just that Mishras seem superior.

@Dave-
Some ppl like to post decklists just to show you a different look, even the jankiest ones can sometimes give you a great idea for your own deck.

[bebe]

MoloDET - I played with Ankhs in a tournament two months ago. I did see your list and added the Lotus and Rings to the deck. Otherwise it is original to what I played. I needed a break from Fish and loaned the deck to a friend.
I lost to Oath and I lost to TurboNevyn. It beat an aggro and a control deck without too much problem at all.
I hate Fireblast and I know Flame Rift is janky but it won me a match against control when he was holding MisD. I don't care about taking damage as a rule.  

Dave - exactly how do you expect to beat TnT? Rico's suggestion of using Vandals is not too bad but is it enough?
I have my doubts and I would rather attack their mana base.
I would even consider adding Pillages or Miners first as it has multiple uses but there is no room in the side for them.

[MarkPharaoh]

My friend has tested Ankh in the past and this is what he told me.    They are good on turn2 but are as bad as drawing a mountain in the late game. A lot of times when he drew it he wished it was a Scroll or a Bolt or even a Chain, and too many times the cards was just dead.  I like Lavamancers as I run 3 in my deck and against aggro, I just go Ensnaring Bridge, Lavamancer lock that wins me the game almost everytime.  I think you can do the same against TnT, Burn the Welders and Trisk's and go Bridge and Grim, if they get a Core in and Ping your Grim, just use the burn in your deck to finish the TnT player off.

[Cuandoman]

To me the real question is: What decks do Sligh have a really hard time dealing with?

Aside from the fireblast problem (mana drain target #1) what needs changing?

[TunaBoo]

Quote (Cuandoman @ Nov. 27 2002,20:34)To me the real question is: What decks do Sligh have a really hard time dealing with?

Aside from the fireblast problem (mana drain target #1) what needs changing?

Anything that sets a hard control down. It runs out of steam really fast. While light game sui can save up 3 spells and go duress, hymn, hippie to force out some beef, sligh is sitting on topdecks for way too long.  If browbeat didn't suck, it would be an option. For now, all you can do is hope you get a scroll out and dig in for the long haul.

[Nuorukain]

*grin*
I've met a sligh with blue for powers. It was awesome.
It gives
You Time Twister, Ancestral, Walk, Fact or Fiction(if not considered too slow)
When using the fetches, mana should not be the problem.
Also blue gives you some interesting sideboard options. (how about Alter Reality to your opponents Cop Red, Diverts for Hymns& targeted card drawing, Annuls for Moats etc...?
(and of-course, if you want to stay true to sligh's nature, you have the Psionic Blasts
Umn, also what seems to be the problem when the steam runs out is: Not enough creatures, therefore Mishra's Factories are great in the main... Also Goblin Patrols are not so bad as they are said to be...

-Nuorukain

[Dave Kaplan]

You basically just suggested I take Legend's purple terribleness and take out the good counters for sligh creatures.... maybe not

Everyone check out my infinite profile on my aim sn:
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It's very funny and what not

Happy Turkey Day!
mwahaha no turkey for:  

[Mr. Machine]

right now i'm a big fan of mishra's in the extra spaces. they hold their own against both aggro and control, and they let you get a working scroll faster. plus, they make the oath matchup a little less one sided. as for the wasteland problem, most control decks will have a problem losing a land drop just to deal with a mishra's.

[Dave Kaplan]

Right now it's down to Factory vs. Lavamancer
The Factory's seem a little better face value, but the everpresence of Wastelands that would be otherwise useless in the mid-late game are now taking out my threats so I'm still not sure

[dandan]

Dave - I think it depends on the direction you want to take

More control - Mishra's (more mana to use on your control cards), better late game vs Abyss, COP Red and Oath
More aggro - Lavamancer
'Combo' - Reckless Charge (you'd need more creatures to run it though)

I see Lavamancer in the Vandal 'utility' slot. If Kegs are your problem use Vandal, if you want a cheap Tim for use against aggro use Lavamancer (or even Fanatics). If you see no Moxen replace Shamen with Lavamancers/Vandals.

Mishras battle for the 'utility', land and 'finisher' slots as if you ditch the finishers for more control you need more mana. 4 Mishras usually replace 1-2 Mountains so you increase your total land count.