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Author Topic: I have never claimed to be an expert when it comes to com...  (Read 7371 times)
FeverDog
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« on: January 07, 2003, 04:53:52 pm »

I have never claimed to be an expert when it comes to combo decks, in fact i have never liked playing them because they just arent my style. However, i still love seeing a great combo deck in action, especially those which require a great amount of skill(and luck) to pilot. There are so many combo decks in T1 because it has access to every card, and everyone has their favorite it seems. Academy, ReapLace, WGDragon, Turboland, Trix, SquirrelCraft, and Reanimator are just some of them, but which is truly the king?

I would like this thread to be a comprehensive listing of every different combo deck in T1. I am asking every combo player to post their decks and the reasons they feel its the best. I would like some pros and cons of each specific deck and what advantages it may have over other combo decks, as well as how well it does vs control.

Lastly, dont be afraid to post a deck that has already been mentioned. If your version uses different cards, or different colors, post it and tell us why you prefer it. I am also asking everyone to please keep it civil, i dont want this to degenerate into a flamewar. If you feel someone is making a real mistake in their deck, you can point it out in an intelligent manner. Thank you.
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Anonymous
Guest
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2003, 05:08:20 pm »

//NAME: Trix
        2 Scrubland
        2 Tundra
        4 Underground Sea
        4 Polluted Delta
        2 City of Brass
        1 Mana Crypt
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Mana Vault
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Time Walk
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Timetwister
        1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
        2 Brainstorm
        1 Necropotence
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Read the Runes
        3 Cabal Therapy
        1 Abeyance
        1 Recoil
        4 Duress
        4 Academy Rector
        4 Force of Will
        1 Mystical Tutor
        3 Illusions of Grandeur
        2 Donate
        3 Dark Ritual
SB:  4 Phyrexian Negator
SB:  1 Recoil
SB:  3 Seal of Cleansing
SB:  3 Misdirection
SB:  2 Abeyance
SB:  1 Mind Twist
SB:  1 Balance

Three color trix in my oppion is the best combo deck to play. Most reasoning behind this deck has been explained so I'll just discuss how this compares to mono blue trix and the other combo decks. The main reason to play three color trix over mono blue trix is because you have the disruption and the speed which the mono blue version will never have. Now simply the only and most important reason to play trix instead of other combo decks is that I don't want to say the control match is in your favor but it is pretty close. The biggest weakness of this compared to the fastest combo decks is that it won't always roll over aggro such as academy but the match will be in your favor.
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dicemanX
Guest
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2003, 06:08:38 pm »

In my opinion, it depends on the presence of certain hate cards in the environment.

If there's little WGDragon hate in the environment, this combo deck has to be the favorite. It's as fast (and probably faster) than Academy, but without Academy's susceptibility to control. And even in the face of hate this deck can just win on the first or second turn WITHOUT having particularly amazing opening hands. This makes WGDragon one of the most terrifying combo decks to face.

If there is a ton of graveyard hate such as Voids and Crypts, Sligh decks packing Ankhs, Keeper running Wishes with g/y removal in the SB etc, my vote would go to mono-U Trix. Its very slow, but this can be negated since Illusions give a massive life boost.  Plus, Trix is one of the few combo decks that can change strategies vs control - it can try to outcontrol the control deck via its substantial amounts of counters and card drawing. Also, there seems to be a trend away from REBs (both in Sligh and Keeper) which is to Trix's advantage.
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Freddie
Guest
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2003, 06:56:56 pm »

1 Trick Pony: Type:1 (Documented 01-07-03)

Blue:  (11)
Ancestral Recall: R
Mystical Tutor: R
Time Walk: R
Time Twiser: R
Wind Fall: R
Tinker: R
Impulse: 4
Stroke of Genius: R

Black: (5)
Yawgmoth’s Will: R
Yawgmoth’s Bargain: R
Demonic Tutor: R
Vampyric Tutor: R
Skirge Familiar: 1

White: (5)
Orm’s Chant: 4
Enlightened Tutor: R

Artifact: (3)
Zuran Orb: 2
Memory Jar: R

Red: (2)
Wheel of Fortune: R
Kaveriks Torch: 1

Green: (2)
Regrowth: R
Fastbond: R

Gold: (2)
Lim Dual’s Vault: 2

Mana Sources: (30)
Dark Ritual: 3
Lotus Petal: R
Mox Diamond: R
Mana Vault: R   
Mana Crypt: R   
SoLoMoxen: Rx7         
Tolarian Academy: R
Undiscovered Paradise: 3
Gemstone Mine: 4
City Of Brass: 4
Underground Sea: 4

Sideboard: 15
Phyrexian Negator: 4
Flesh Reaver: 4
Red Elemental Blast: 4
PyroBlast: 3


I created this deck long before I knew of academy, even before I knew of Beyond Dominia...

I love this thing, i think that in speed it is comparible or faster then Academy, but that Academy is more consistant, and can defend itself better vs control.

This thig gold fishes like a dream, 2-3 turn kills are common, and 1st turn kills occasional.

My personal vote for the fastest though is World Gorger.dec...

It is just so consistant in the matches I have seen and playtested!!!

-freddie\n\n

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spevack
Guest
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2003, 07:19:22 pm »

I believe this is pretty much the consensus Academy build.

Credit to Matt D'Avanzo -- where are you Matt?  We want you to post on MD!

4 Force of Will
3 Meditate
3 Impulse
1 Braingeyser
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Frantic Search
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Time Spiral
1 Windfall
1 Capsize
1 Tinker
1 Mind over Matter

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

2 Abeyance

1 Crop Rotation
1 Regrowth
1 Fastbond

1 Wheel of Fortune

5 Moxen
3 Helm of Awakening
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith
1 Memory Jar
1 Lotus Petal

4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Undiscovered Paradise
2 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy

Sideboard

4 Misdirection
4 Phyrexian Negator
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Seal of Cleansing
1 Mind Twist
1 Balance

This is my favorite deck to play, by far.
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cooberp
Guest
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2003, 01:20:15 am »

Some of us (ahem, me) run a Mox Diamond where Matt has the second Sea.
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dandan
Guest
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2003, 04:30:49 am »

I know this is muddying the waters a little but I would like to point out that by adding Yawgmoth's broken Will instead of an Impulse you lose a tiny tiny bit of consistency but gain the ability to win games you should lose (vs massive disruption Suicide style, Sligh Shamen/Miner attacks, adds another must counter vs control as well as a pretty good mana source with Black Lotus, Petal and various lands [aided by Fastbond]).

As many people have mentioned how fragile Academy is (IMHO a false assumption) I thought it was worth mentioning.

Having said all that WGDragon is much easier to build and play than Academy (when you play most of the cards in your deck, sometimes several times, during one turn there are a lot of decisions) and is not a lot slower. Frankly both beat aggro and both can outrun control (in fact this is usually the only chance you have) and both are capable of outrunning most other combos. Dragon has the advantage that it is unlikely to self-destruct and you can even get a draw if things are very dire. Academy has the advantage that it can be quicker if required, it is simply the flashiest deck to win with and Academy hate has long since disappeared while Dragon hate has increased considerably since TnT burst onto the scene.

Note that many other combos have their own advantages which may make them the best in any given metagame - Reaplace in a Suicide metagame springs to mind.
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FeverDog
Guest
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2003, 08:10:02 am »

@DicemanX
Perhaps you could edit your post to include your decklist for WGDragon? After all, that is the point of this thread.
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bebe
Guest
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2003, 09:32:19 am »

My personal favorite - BoW

4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Arcane Denial
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Back to Basics
4 Battle of Wits
1 Black Lotus
4 Brainstorm
3 Capsize
4 Clairvoyance
4 Counterspell
4 Daze
4 Disrupt
4 Divert
1 Dominate
1 Fact or Fiction
4 Foil
4 Force of Will
4 Foresight
2 Gaea’s Blessing
1 Grim Monolith
4 Impulse
4 Intuition
4 Lat-Nam's Legacy
4 Legacy's Allure
4 Mana Drain
4 Mana Leak
1 Mana Short
4 Memory Lapse
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Miscalculation
4 Misdirection
4 Morphling
1 Mox sapphire
1 Mox emerald
4 Mystic Remora
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Opt
4 Peek
4 Portent
4 Predict
1 Recall
4 Sleight of Hand
1 Sol Ring
4 Thwart
1 Time Spiral
1 Time Twister
1 Time Walk
4 Veiled Serpent
4 Powder Keg
2 Nev’s Disk
4 Wasteland
1 Strip mine
1 Library
74 Island


SB
4 Gainsay
4 Hydroblast
3 Blue Blast
4 Submerge
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Maxx Matt
Guest
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2003, 10:47:39 am »

i'm going to post a good list of a trix deck,without the rectors to bring necro/bargain into play.

it perform very well:

TRIX

1 Tolarian Academy
4 Underground Sea
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
4 Dark Ritual

1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Enlightened TUtor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker

4 Brainstorm
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence
1 Memory Jar
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Windfall
1 Timetwister
1 Wheel of Fortune

1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will

2 Donate
3 Illusion of Grandeur

1 Balance
1 Seal of Cleansing

1 Abeyance
4 Force of Will
4 Duress


Sideboard
1 Illusion of Grandeur
1 Abeyance
1 Seal of Cleansing
4 Misdirection
4 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast



it win a lot in italy in a great vintage competition that last for all the year and cover all the country with weekly, powered and sanctioned  tourney and at least 50-60 good player each time.  .  
the player who perform with this deck and win a lot is a very good and lucky one...



NB: some choices, such as balance, seal, enlightened MD, are purely based on the metagame


------------
Maxx Matt
------------
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Radagast
Guest
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2003, 04:13:14 pm »

//NAME: Hermit Dragon
        4 Hermit Druid
        1 Krosan Reclamation
        1 Deep Analysis
        4 Buried Alive
        3 Animate Dead
        2 Dance of the Dead
        1 Necromancy
        2 Worldgorger Dragon
        1 Ambassador Laquatus
        4 Defense Grid
        4 Duress
        4 Unmask
        1 Death Wish
        1 Necropotence
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Time Walk
        4 Dark Ritual
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Ruby
        4 Polluted Delta
        2 Bloodstained Mire
        4 Bayou
        1 Underground Sea
        2 City of Brass
SB:  1 Jester's Cap
SB:  1 Pernicious Deed
SB:  1 City of Solitude
SB:  2 Steely Resolve
SB:  2 Shallow Grave
SB:  2 Naturalize
SB:  3 Eladamri's Vineyard
SB:  3 Compost

The main selling point of the deck is Hermit Druid - once you've milled your whole library into your grave, you can either cast an Animate/Dance from your hand and win right there, or Reclaim them and then do it (you can even Deep Anal for them if you have the mana and don't feel like waiting). I'll edit in a more in-depth analysis of the deck later, but here's a quick explanation of the stranger choices:

1) Blue: This is here so I can beat decks with Blessings. See below.
2) Deep Analysis: How you beat blessings is you mill your -own- library into your grave with Laquatus, and then flashback Krosan Reclamation and Deep Anal to get Death Wish, Wish for a Cap, and then win.
3) only 1 Ambassador Laquatus: If you get it stuck in your hand, you can Animate a Hermit Druid and just cast it.
4) Animate/Dance: I am unsure on the ratio; Dances are better vs Sligh making it harder to burn the Dragon, whereas Animates are infinitely better at animating Hermits, which does come up.
5) Defense Grid: This is incredible. The main weakness of Dragon is a single creature/enchantment removal spell is all the opponent needs to not only stop the combo, but remove all your permanents from the game. This stops that (except Aura Fracture ). Not to mention counterspells.
6) Unmask: Initially 4 seemed like too much, but you always have a spare Bury/Animate/Ritual/random bad card (ie Wish). And first turn Land - Unmask - Mox - Hermit generally makes for turn 2 kills.
7) Death Wish: You need some way to get rid of annoying things like Gaea's Blessing and um, Ivory Mask. This was originally Cunning but I kept getting pissed off at it not being black.
8) Necropotence: You can generally cast it and then it wins games. If you can't, you pitch it to Unmask.
9) Steely Resolve/Shallow Grave: This is vs aggro decks with large amounts of removal for your Hermits. I am again unsure on the ratio, and whether giving up the Hermits and beefing up the Bury-Animate engine instead wouldn't be altogether better.
10) Eladamri's Vineyard: This is vs things with large amounts of mana denial like some Sligh decks and Sui. It's the only thing I could find that isn't easily removed (ie isn't a land/creature), and generally all they can cast off it is a Negator or an Incinerate, and you're faster than that. I don't know whether this is at all necessary, but hey, I need to put _something_ in the sideboard. (Oh, btw, I haven't tested this deck much -- just a few games to make sure it isn't utter crap.)
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dicemanX
Guest
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2003, 06:09:00 pm »

That is an innovative approach to a WGDragon, with an interesting trade-off: the Druids are more vulnerable, but function better than Entomb.

I would suggest Therapy over Unmask though. Using your Druid followed by Therapy with buyback would be a neat play, while Therapies go well with Duress to begin with. I think that lone Deep Analysis is pointless though, especially without Entombs. Run it if you are really concerned with Blessings, but note that you can still win with Ancestral Recall, so don't bother wasting a slot on a Death Wish (you can mill opponent and Ancestral them AFTER their Blessing triggers go on the stack). I also think you run too few mana sources and animate effects. I'd suggest some tweaks, maybe more testing, and then posting the deck in the vintage forum - it might not get enough feedback in this thread.

As for FeverDog's request, I'll post the decklists here instead of editing my initial post. The first deck is a more controllish build, while the second is my version of Roland Bode's deck (speed Gorger kill). It's hands down the fastest combo deck in Magic right now.

***5-color Dragon***

2x Worldgorger Dragon
1x Aerial Caravan

3x Entomb
3x Buried Alive

3x Intuition
3x Cunning Wish
1x Read the Runes
1x Scrying Glass

4x Animate Dead
3x Dance of the Dead
-----------------------------
24 combo cards
        10 creature “buriers”
         7  animate effects
        11 win conditions (without help from Caravan)

1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Timetwister
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Ancestral Recall
-----------------------------
6 tutor/card drawing

1x Abeyance
3x Defense Grid
3x Mana Leak
-----------------------------
7 disruption (10 if we count the Wishes)


1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Ruby
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt

4x Underground Sea
4x Underground River
4x Gemstone Mine
2x Undiscovered Paradise
2x City of Brass
-----------------------------
24 mana sources


SB:

1x Stroke of Genius
1x Rushing River
1x Abeyance
3x Red Elemental Blast
4x Powder Keg
2x Verdant Force
1x Defense Grid
1x Read the Runes
1x Scrying Glass


Speed WGDragon:

2 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Aerial Caravan OR Ambassador Laquatus

3 Cunning Wish
3 Intuition

3 Buried Alive
4 Entomb

4 Necromancy
4 Animate Dead
3 Dance of the Dead
---------------------
27 combo pieces
     10 creature "buriers"
     11 animate effects
     10 win conditions (if Buried Alive is not used)

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Abeyance
1 Wheel of Fortune
1x Time Twister
---------------------
8 tutor/draw/disruption

1 Black Lotus
4 Dark Ritual
1 Sol Ring
5 Mox
1 Mana Crypt
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Underground Sea
2 Underground River
-----------------------
26 mana sources

SB:
1x Stroke of Genius
1x Rushing River
1x Read the Runes
1x Abeyance
1x REB
4x Powder Keg
4x Negator
2x Hypnotic Specter


The Ambassador is much better than the Caravan against Parfait, because you can use an Abeyance + Animate stack trick to win against an Orim's Chant.
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Zharradan
Guest
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2003, 03:50:58 am »

Quote from: dicemanX+Jan. 09 2003,05:09
Quote (dicemanX @ Jan. 09 2003,05:09)1 Black Lotus
4 Dark Ritual
1 Sol Ring
5 Mox
1 Mana Crypt
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Underground Sea
2 Underground River
-----------------------
26 mana sources
Wouldn't it be better to replace those two Underground Rivers with Polluted Deltas? You can't go off with a River, but the Delta will only hurt you once (big deal) and find a Sea for you.


... or was your list pre-ON?
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Radagast
Guest
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2003, 10:53:48 am »

You need 2 Entombs and maybe the Animate as well to do what a single Druid does. As for Therapy, I originally ran 1 so I could remove any FoWs before I cast Reclamation. That was when I noticed it's a sorcery. Death Wish isn't only there vs Blessings, it's vs anything that prevents you from winning (Planar Void, Root Maze, Spellshock (EDIT: meant Ankh, got mixed up with Aluren for a moment), etc). And I may yet move the Anal into the SB, but it's a bad feeling to know that vs some decks your best chance game one is to attack 20 times with Hermit Druid (well, I managed to go turn 1 land unmask - ritual - lotus - Dragon once, but I wouldn't count on that happening much). I do plan to do more testing with it (all I've done so far is to get a feel for the deck, but no idea about percentages or anything), but without owning actual cards, school, less-than-friendly phone service (no broadband around here), and no-one being available for a game when I am, it's rather tough. And I don't really want feedback on it yet, just felt like posting it if this is going to be a comprehensive list of combo decks. And if anyone else decides to pick up the idea and refine it, that's just great.
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dicemanX
Guest
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2003, 06:15:56 pm »

Quote
Quote Wouldn't it be better to replace those two Underground Rivers with Polluted Deltas? You can't go off with a River, but the Delta will only hurt you once (big deal) and find a Sea for you.

You can go off with a River if you're not using Caravan as your win condition. Even if you are using Caravan, you will most likely get to see quite a few cards before you run out of life.

As for replacing Rivers with Deltas, that's a tough call in a deck with few lands. I'm not certain what post-Onslaught mana configuration is best yet without further testing...
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Kheoinn
Guest
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2003, 10:52:05 am »

TurboLich (one of my favorite decks)
by Goldfish
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Bazaar of Baghdad
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Tolarian Academy
1x Crosis's Catacombs
1x Darigaaz's Caldera
1x Undiscovered Paradise
1x Tundra
4x Underground Sea
4x Tropical Island
4x City of Brass
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Sol Ring
1x Mirror Universe
1x Mana Crypt
1x Scroll Rack
1x Overgrown Estate
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Lich
4x Duress
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Frantic Search*
3x Brainstorm
3x Intuition
1x Windfall
1x Time Walk
1x Timetwister
1x Time Spiral
1x Fastbond
1x Reclaim*
1x Regrowth
1x City of Solitude
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Enlightened Tutor*
1x Replenish
1x Pursuit of Knowledge*

SB:  1 Cursed Totem (Gorilla Shaman, Frenetic Efreet, Morphling, Dwarven Miner, BoP)
SB:  2 Hydroblast
SB:  2 Red Elemental Blast
SB:  2 Pyroclasm (Specter, Shaman)
SB:  1 Seal of Cleansing
SB:  1 Circle of Protection: Black
SB:  1 Circle of Protection: Red
SB:  3 Annul (Stacker)
SB:  2 slots free
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Zherbus
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FatherHell
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« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2003, 01:26:57 pm »

Moved. While the intention and disired execution of such a thread deserves Extreme Vintage Status, this is really not much more than decklists postings. Rather than delete all decks shared within, I feel it should simply be moved to Vintage.
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