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FeverDog
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« on: January 07, 2003, 04:53:52 pm » |
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I have never claimed to be an expert when it comes to combo decks, in fact i have never liked playing them because they just arent my style. However, i still love seeing a great combo deck in action, especially those which require a great amount of skill(and luck) to pilot. There are so many combo decks in T1 because it has access to every card, and everyone has their favorite it seems. Academy, ReapLace, WGDragon, Turboland, Trix, SquirrelCraft, and Reanimator are just some of them, but which is truly the king?
I would like this thread to be a comprehensive listing of every different combo deck in T1. I am asking every combo player to post their decks and the reasons they feel its the best. I would like some pros and cons of each specific deck and what advantages it may have over other combo decks, as well as how well it does vs control.
Lastly, dont be afraid to post a deck that has already been mentioned. If your version uses different cards, or different colors, post it and tell us why you prefer it. I am also asking everyone to please keep it civil, i dont want this to degenerate into a flamewar. If you feel someone is making a real mistake in their deck, you can point it out in an intelligent manner. Thank you.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2003, 05:08:20 pm » |
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//NAME: Trix 2 Scrubland 2 Tundra 4 Underground Sea 4 Polluted Delta 2 City of Brass 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Emerald 1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Vault 1 Black Lotus 1 Time Walk 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Timetwister 1 Yawgmoth's Bargain 2 Brainstorm 1 Necropotence 1 Yawgmoth's Will 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Read the Runes 3 Cabal Therapy 1 Abeyance 1 Recoil 4 Duress 4 Academy Rector 4 Force of Will 1 Mystical Tutor 3 Illusions of Grandeur 2 Donate 3 Dark Ritual SB: 4 Phyrexian Negator SB: 1 Recoil SB: 3 Seal of Cleansing SB: 3 Misdirection SB: 2 Abeyance SB: 1 Mind Twist SB: 1 Balance
Three color trix in my oppion is the best combo deck to play. Most reasoning behind this deck has been explained so I'll just discuss how this compares to mono blue trix and the other combo decks. The main reason to play three color trix over mono blue trix is because you have the disruption and the speed which the mono blue version will never have. Now simply the only and most important reason to play trix instead of other combo decks is that I don't want to say the control match is in your favor but it is pretty close. The biggest weakness of this compared to the fastest combo decks is that it won't always roll over aggro such as academy but the match will be in your favor.
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dicemanX
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2003, 06:08:38 pm » |
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In my opinion, it depends on the presence of certain hate cards in the environment.
If there's little WGDragon hate in the environment, this combo deck has to be the favorite. It's as fast (and probably faster) than Academy, but without Academy's susceptibility to control. And even in the face of hate this deck can just win on the first or second turn WITHOUT having particularly amazing opening hands. This makes WGDragon one of the most terrifying combo decks to face.
If there is a ton of graveyard hate such as Voids and Crypts, Sligh decks packing Ankhs, Keeper running Wishes with g/y removal in the SB etc, my vote would go to mono-U Trix. Its very slow, but this can be negated since Illusions give a massive life boost. Plus, Trix is one of the few combo decks that can change strategies vs control - it can try to outcontrol the control deck via its substantial amounts of counters and card drawing. Also, there seems to be a trend away from REBs (both in Sligh and Keeper) which is to Trix's advantage.
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Freddie
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2003, 06:56:56 pm » |
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1 Trick Pony: Type:1 (Documented 01-07-03)
Blue: (11) Ancestral Recall: R Mystical Tutor: R Time Walk: R Time Twiser: R Wind Fall: R Tinker: R Impulse: 4 Stroke of Genius: R
Black: (5) Yawgmoth’s Will: R Yawgmoth’s Bargain: R Demonic Tutor: R Vampyric Tutor: R Skirge Familiar: 1
White: (5) Orm’s Chant: 4 Enlightened Tutor: R
Artifact: (3) Zuran Orb: 2 Memory Jar: R
Red: (2) Wheel of Fortune: R Kaveriks Torch: 1
Green: (2) Regrowth: R Fastbond: R
Gold: (2) Lim Dual’s Vault: 2
Mana Sources: (30) Dark Ritual: 3 Lotus Petal: R Mox Diamond: R Mana Vault: R Mana Crypt: R SoLoMoxen: Rx7 Tolarian Academy: R Undiscovered Paradise: 3 Gemstone Mine: 4 City Of Brass: 4 Underground Sea: 4
Sideboard: 15 Phyrexian Negator: 4 Flesh Reaver: 4 Red Elemental Blast: 4 PyroBlast: 3
I created this deck long before I knew of academy, even before I knew of Beyond Dominia...
I love this thing, i think that in speed it is comparible or faster then Academy, but that Academy is more consistant, and can defend itself better vs control.
This thig gold fishes like a dream, 2-3 turn kills are common, and 1st turn kills occasional.
My personal vote for the fastest though is World Gorger.dec...
It is just so consistant in the matches I have seen and playtested!!!
-freddie\n\n
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spevack
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2003, 07:19:22 pm » |
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I believe this is pretty much the consensus Academy build.
Credit to Matt D'Avanzo -- where are you Matt? We want you to post on MD!
4 Force of Will 3 Meditate 3 Impulse 1 Braingeyser 1 Stroke of Genius 1 Frantic Search 1 Mystical Tutor 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Time Walk 1 Timetwister 1 Time Spiral 1 Windfall 1 Capsize 1 Tinker 1 Mind over Matter
1 Demonic Tutor 1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Abeyance
1 Crop Rotation 1 Regrowth 1 Fastbond
1 Wheel of Fortune
5 Moxen 3 Helm of Awakening 2 Candelabra of Tawnos 1 Black Lotus 1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mana Vault 1 Grim Monolith 1 Memory Jar 1 Lotus Petal
4 City of Brass 4 Gemstone Mine 2 Undiscovered Paradise 2 Underground Sea 1 Tolarian Academy
Sideboard
4 Misdirection 4 Phyrexian Negator 3 Red Elemental Blast 2 Seal of Cleansing 1 Mind Twist 1 Balance
This is my favorite deck to play, by far.
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cooberp
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2003, 01:20:15 am » |
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Some of us (ahem, me) run a Mox Diamond where Matt has the second Sea.
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dandan
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2003, 04:30:49 am » |
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I know this is muddying the waters a little but I would like to point out that by adding Yawgmoth's broken Will instead of an Impulse you lose a tiny tiny bit of consistency but gain the ability to win games you should lose (vs massive disruption Suicide style, Sligh Shamen/Miner attacks, adds another must counter vs control as well as a pretty good mana source with Black Lotus, Petal and various lands [aided by Fastbond]).
As many people have mentioned how fragile Academy is (IMHO a false assumption) I thought it was worth mentioning.
Having said all that WGDragon is much easier to build and play than Academy (when you play most of the cards in your deck, sometimes several times, during one turn there are a lot of decisions) and is not a lot slower. Frankly both beat aggro and both can outrun control (in fact this is usually the only chance you have) and both are capable of outrunning most other combos. Dragon has the advantage that it is unlikely to self-destruct and you can even get a draw if things are very dire. Academy has the advantage that it can be quicker if required, it is simply the flashiest deck to win with and Academy hate has long since disappeared while Dragon hate has increased considerably since TnT burst onto the scene.
Note that many other combos have their own advantages which may make them the best in any given metagame - Reaplace in a Suicide metagame springs to mind.
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FeverDog
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2003, 08:10:02 am » |
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@DicemanX Perhaps you could edit your post to include your decklist for WGDragon? After all, that is the point of this thread.
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bebe
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2003, 09:32:19 am » |
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My personal favorite - BoW
4 Accumulated Knowledge 4 Arcane Denial 1 Ancestral Recall 4 Back to Basics 4 Battle of Wits 1 Black Lotus 4 Brainstorm 3 Capsize 4 Clairvoyance 4 Counterspell 4 Daze 4 Disrupt 4 Divert 1 Dominate 1 Fact or Fiction 4 Foil 4 Force of Will 4 Foresight 2 Gaea’s Blessing 1 Grim Monolith 4 Impulse 4 Intuition 4 Lat-Nam's Legacy 4 Legacy's Allure 4 Mana Drain 4 Mana Leak 1 Mana Short 4 Memory Lapse 4 Merchant Scroll 4 Miscalculation 4 Misdirection 4 Morphling 1 Mox sapphire 1 Mox emerald 4 Mystic Remora 1 Mystical Tutor 4 Opt 4 Peek 4 Portent 4 Predict 1 Recall 4 Sleight of Hand 1 Sol Ring 4 Thwart 1 Time Spiral 1 Time Twister 1 Time Walk 4 Veiled Serpent 4 Powder Keg 2 Nev’s Disk 4 Wasteland 1 Strip mine 1 Library 74 Island
SB 4 Gainsay 4 Hydroblast 3 Blue Blast 4 Submerge
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Maxx Matt
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2003, 10:47:39 am » |
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i'm going to post a good list of a trix deck,without the rectors to bring necro/bargain into play.
it perform very well:
TRIX
1 Tolarian Academy 4 Underground Sea 4 City of Brass 4 Gemstone Mine 1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Vault 1 Mana Crypt 1 Black Lotus 5 Moxen 4 Dark Ritual
1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Mystical Tutor 1 Enlightened TUtor 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Tinker
4 Brainstorm 1 Yawgmoth's Bargain 1 Necropotence 1 Memory Jar 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Windfall 1 Timetwister 1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Time Walk 1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Donate 3 Illusion of Grandeur
1 Balance 1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Abeyance 4 Force of Will 4 Duress
Sideboard 1 Illusion of Grandeur 1 Abeyance 1 Seal of Cleansing 4 Misdirection 4 Blue Elemental Blast 2 Pyroblast 2 Red Elemental Blast
it win a lot in italy in a great vintage competition that last for all the year and cover all the country with weekly, powered and sanctioned tourney and at least 50-60 good player each time. . the player who perform with this deck and win a lot is a very good and lucky one...
NB: some choices, such as balance, seal, enlightened MD, are purely based on the metagame
------------ Maxx Matt ------------
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Radagast
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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2003, 04:13:14 pm » |
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//NAME: Hermit Dragon 4 Hermit Druid 1 Krosan Reclamation 1 Deep Analysis 4 Buried Alive 3 Animate Dead 2 Dance of the Dead 1 Necromancy 2 Worldgorger Dragon 1 Ambassador Laquatus 4 Defense Grid 4 Duress 4 Unmask 1 Death Wish 1 Necropotence 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Time Walk 4 Dark Ritual 1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Ruby 4 Polluted Delta 2 Bloodstained Mire 4 Bayou 1 Underground Sea 2 City of Brass SB: 1 Jester's Cap SB: 1 Pernicious Deed SB: 1 City of Solitude SB: 2 Steely Resolve SB: 2 Shallow Grave SB: 2 Naturalize SB: 3 Eladamri's Vineyard SB: 3 Compost
The main selling point of the deck is Hermit Druid - once you've milled your whole library into your grave, you can either cast an Animate/Dance from your hand and win right there, or Reclaim them and then do it (you can even Deep Anal for them if you have the mana and don't feel like waiting). I'll edit in a more in-depth analysis of the deck later, but here's a quick explanation of the stranger choices:
1) Blue: This is here so I can beat decks with Blessings. See below. 2) Deep Analysis: How you beat blessings is you mill your -own- library into your grave with Laquatus, and then flashback Krosan Reclamation and Deep Anal to get Death Wish, Wish for a Cap, and then win. 3) only 1 Ambassador Laquatus: If you get it stuck in your hand, you can Animate a Hermit Druid and just cast it. 4) Animate/Dance: I am unsure on the ratio; Dances are better vs Sligh making it harder to burn the Dragon, whereas Animates are infinitely better at animating Hermits, which does come up. 5) Defense Grid: This is incredible. The main weakness of Dragon is a single creature/enchantment removal spell is all the opponent needs to not only stop the combo, but remove all your permanents from the game. This stops that (except Aura Fracture ). Not to mention counterspells. 6) Unmask: Initially 4 seemed like too much, but you always have a spare Bury/Animate/Ritual/random bad card (ie Wish). And first turn Land - Unmask - Mox - Hermit generally makes for turn 2 kills. 7) Death Wish: You need some way to get rid of annoying things like Gaea's Blessing and um, Ivory Mask. This was originally Cunning but I kept getting pissed off at it not being black. 8) Necropotence: You can generally cast it and then it wins games. If you can't, you pitch it to Unmask. 9) Steely Resolve/Shallow Grave: This is vs aggro decks with large amounts of removal for your Hermits. I am again unsure on the ratio, and whether giving up the Hermits and beefing up the Bury-Animate engine instead wouldn't be altogether better. 10) Eladamri's Vineyard: This is vs things with large amounts of mana denial like some Sligh decks and Sui. It's the only thing I could find that isn't easily removed (ie isn't a land/creature), and generally all they can cast off it is a Negator or an Incinerate, and you're faster than that. I don't know whether this is at all necessary, but hey, I need to put _something_ in the sideboard. (Oh, btw, I haven't tested this deck much -- just a few games to make sure it isn't utter crap.)
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dicemanX
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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2003, 06:09:00 pm » |
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That is an innovative approach to a WGDragon, with an interesting trade-off: the Druids are more vulnerable, but function better than Entomb.
I would suggest Therapy over Unmask though. Using your Druid followed by Therapy with buyback would be a neat play, while Therapies go well with Duress to begin with. I think that lone Deep Analysis is pointless though, especially without Entombs. Run it if you are really concerned with Blessings, but note that you can still win with Ancestral Recall, so don't bother wasting a slot on a Death Wish (you can mill opponent and Ancestral them AFTER their Blessing triggers go on the stack). I also think you run too few mana sources and animate effects. I'd suggest some tweaks, maybe more testing, and then posting the deck in the vintage forum - it might not get enough feedback in this thread.
As for FeverDog's request, I'll post the decklists here instead of editing my initial post. The first deck is a more controllish build, while the second is my version of Roland Bode's deck (speed Gorger kill). It's hands down the fastest combo deck in Magic right now.
***5-color Dragon***
2x Worldgorger Dragon 1x Aerial Caravan
3x Entomb 3x Buried Alive
3x Intuition 3x Cunning Wish 1x Read the Runes 1x Scrying Glass
4x Animate Dead 3x Dance of the Dead ----------------------------- 24 combo cards 10 creature “buriers” 7 animate effects 11 win conditions (without help from Caravan)
1x Demonic Tutor 1x Vampiric Tutor 1x Mystical Tutor 1x Timetwister 1x Wheel of Fortune 1x Ancestral Recall ----------------------------- 6 tutor/card drawing
1x Abeyance 3x Defense Grid 3x Mana Leak ----------------------------- 7 disruption (10 if we count the Wishes)
1x Black Lotus 1x Mox Jet 1x Mox Sapphire 1x Mox Pearl 1x Mox Emerald 1x Mox Ruby 1x Sol Ring 1x Mana Crypt
4x Underground Sea 4x Underground River 4x Gemstone Mine 2x Undiscovered Paradise 2x City of Brass ----------------------------- 24 mana sources
SB:
1x Stroke of Genius 1x Rushing River 1x Abeyance 3x Red Elemental Blast 4x Powder Keg 2x Verdant Force 1x Defense Grid 1x Read the Runes 1x Scrying Glass
Speed WGDragon:
2 Worldgorger Dragon 1 Aerial Caravan OR Ambassador Laquatus
3 Cunning Wish 3 Intuition
3 Buried Alive 4 Entomb
4 Necromancy 4 Animate Dead 3 Dance of the Dead --------------------- 27 combo pieces 10 creature "buriers" 11 animate effects 10 win conditions (if Buried Alive is not used)
1 Demonic Tutor 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Mystical Tutor 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Time Walk 1 Abeyance 1 Wheel of Fortune 1x Time Twister --------------------- 8 tutor/draw/disruption
1 Black Lotus 4 Dark Ritual 1 Sol Ring 5 Mox 1 Mana Crypt 4 Gemstone Mine 4 Undiscovered Paradise 4 Underground Sea 2 Underground River ----------------------- 26 mana sources
SB: 1x Stroke of Genius 1x Rushing River 1x Read the Runes 1x Abeyance 1x REB 4x Powder Keg 4x Negator 2x Hypnotic Specter
The Ambassador is much better than the Caravan against Parfait, because you can use an Abeyance + Animate stack trick to win against an Orim's Chant.
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Zharradan
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2003, 03:50:58 am » |
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Quote (dicemanX @ Jan. 09 2003,05:09)1 Black Lotus 4 Dark Ritual 1 Sol Ring 5 Mox 1 Mana Crypt 4 Gemstone Mine 4 Undiscovered Paradise 4 Underground Sea 2 Underground River ----------------------- 26 mana sources Wouldn't it be better to replace those two Underground Rivers with Polluted Deltas? You can't go off with a River, but the Delta will only hurt you once (big deal) and find a Sea for you. ... or was your list pre-ON?
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Radagast
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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2003, 10:53:48 am » |
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You need 2 Entombs and maybe the Animate as well to do what a single Druid does. As for Therapy, I originally ran 1 so I could remove any FoWs before I cast Reclamation. That was when I noticed it's a sorcery. Death Wish isn't only there vs Blessings, it's vs anything that prevents you from winning (Planar Void, Root Maze, Spellshock (EDIT: meant Ankh, got mixed up with Aluren for a moment), etc). And I may yet move the Anal into the SB, but it's a bad feeling to know that vs some decks your best chance game one is to attack 20 times with Hermit Druid (well, I managed to go turn 1 land unmask - ritual - lotus - Dragon once, but I wouldn't count on that happening much). I do plan to do more testing with it (all I've done so far is to get a feel for the deck, but no idea about percentages or anything), but without owning actual cards, school, less-than-friendly phone service (no broadband around here), and no-one being available for a game when I am, it's rather tough. And I don't really want feedback on it yet, just felt like posting it if this is going to be a comprehensive list of combo decks. And if anyone else decides to pick up the idea and refine it, that's just great.
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dicemanX
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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2003, 06:15:56 pm » |
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Quote Wouldn't it be better to replace those two Underground Rivers with Polluted Deltas? You can't go off with a River, but the Delta will only hurt you once (big deal) and find a Sea for you.
You can go off with a River if you're not using Caravan as your win condition. Even if you are using Caravan, you will most likely get to see quite a few cards before you run out of life. As for replacing Rivers with Deltas, that's a tough call in a deck with few lands. I'm not certain what post-Onslaught mana configuration is best yet without further testing...
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Kheoinn
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« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2003, 10:52:05 am » |
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TurboLich (one of my favorite decks) by Goldfish 1x Glacial Chasm 1x Bazaar of Baghdad 1x Ancient Tomb 1x Tolarian Academy 1x Crosis's Catacombs 1x Darigaaz's Caldera 1x Undiscovered Paradise 1x Tundra 4x Underground Sea 4x Tropical Island 4x City of Brass 1x Black Lotus 1x Mox Emerald 1x Mox Jet 1x Mox Pearl 1x Mox Ruby 1x Mox Sapphire 1x Sol Ring 1x Mirror Universe 1x Mana Crypt 1x Scroll Rack 1x Overgrown Estate 1x Vampiric Tutor 1x Demonic Tutor 1x Yawgmoth's Will 1x Lich 4x Duress 1x Mystical Tutor 1x Ancestral Recall 1x Frantic Search* 3x Brainstorm 3x Intuition 1x Windfall 1x Time Walk 1x Timetwister 1x Time Spiral 1x Fastbond 1x Reclaim* 1x Regrowth 1x City of Solitude 1x Wheel of Fortune 1x Enlightened Tutor* 1x Replenish 1x Pursuit of Knowledge*
SB: 1 Cursed Totem (Gorilla Shaman, Frenetic Efreet, Morphling, Dwarven Miner, BoP) SB: 2 Hydroblast SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast SB: 2 Pyroclasm (Specter, Shaman) SB: 1 Seal of Cleansing SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Black SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red SB: 3 Annul (Stacker) SB: 2 slots free
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Zherbus
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« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2003, 01:26:57 pm » |
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Moved. While the intention and disired execution of such a thread deserves Extreme Vintage Status, this is really not much more than decklists postings. Rather than delete all decks shared within, I feel it should simply be moved to Vintage.
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