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Author Topic: C&Js Thursday  (Read 2264 times)
Fishhead
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« on: November 15, 2002, 05:28:21 pm »

Its a pretty good turnout at C&Js, lots of powered decks and good players.  I played Keeper.  As I discussed somewhere else, I played a version of Keeper which is within maybe 4 cards (including sideboard) of Carsten Kotters Keeper from Monnchengladbach.  

I played a second Mis-D main instead of the Recall; I started one Keg main instead of the Shaman because I expected more aggressive decks than powered decks.  (A point on which I was wrong.)   I played 2 Aura Fracture instead of 1 in the SB and two more Kegs.  

Round 1:  Dave (NaChlv) with ABM

NaChlv already posted a report on this match and I replied, check it out for the details.  

In short, I win the first one when he surprises me by conceding with Mystic Enforcer in hand.  The second one he starts with 3 Islands and a Mox Sapphire, which is not an optimal start for a Tax/Rack deck.  I have 3 Mana Drains and he resolves nothing.

Round 2: Justin (Saucemaster) with Parfait

We've been playing this matchup at FNM for a while now, it seems to highly favor Keeper.  Especially with the addition of Cunning Wish for Shattering Pulse, Parfait has a hard time getting going.  

Game 1: I win the first by doing what Combo Keeper does; he resolves Mesa and then says, "Oh, I am going to die now?" when I dont look worried.  (Must practice poker face.)  Grim, Power, Stroke and the game is over.

Game 2: He gets his revenge here, I Mana Drain something mostly irrelevant because I want a big turn with FoF and Cunning Wish.  I draw poop off the FoF and am tapped out, he EoTs for Blood Moon.  Bad news.  I go to town with Shattering Pulse though, because I have nothing but Mountains.  

I make a mistake in the mid-game as we are both draw-going.  I have 2 Mis-Ds and a Fow in my hand.  That means I can only keep one other card in hand; I have to choose between D Tutor and Y-Will.  I choose Will, thinking I can get the Tutor back with Will.  Um, no, because I will only ever have one source of black mana again; the Mox Jet.  I draw the D-Blow and wish that I hadnt screwed up; I could Tutor for the Pearl and smash the Blood Moon and get back in the game.  Shortly after he drops a second Blood Moon and I am hosed.  I'm not sure that my mistake made any difference; it would still be hard to juggle all my win conditions even after I had broken out of the Moon; losing Will means I have no recursion.  But its always better to make fewer mistakes rather than more.

Game 3: Keeper does what it does after sideing in this matchup.  It resolves Aura Fracture and then sits back and waits for the opponent to try a to get rid of it.  This game goes to the timelimit, I've seen 3/4s of my deck and not found a win condition.  Fortunately, I'm able to put together the combo on the 2nd turn of overtime.  

Round 3: Max (Spevack) with Academy

This is covered in Max's report; he won the tournament so go check it out.  

Game 1: Max Time Walks and Merchant Scrolls for Ancestral, I Ancestral in response to his Ancestral and am able to FoW him.  I Time Walk and drop Wastelands by the ton; eventually I Cunning Wish for Shattering Pulse and play a Dust Bowl.  A brutal beating ensues, except for the point where I let him Abeyance me.  Fortunatly, he draws nothing and I do not get the loss I so richly deserve.

Game 2: I'm not quite sure what the SB strategy is for Academy, other than I suspect it involves Negators and ReBs.  I side out my Abyss, which is probably a mistake; I also bring in the Mox Monkey, which might be another mistake.  I get a Geyser for 5 Mis-Directed and am quickly crushed.  "Hmmm, thats a surprise."

Game 3: Here is a Haiku to describe this game:

First turn Negator
I draw cards and find just land
My life ebbs by fives

Round 4: Kevin with G Utility

Game 1: Kevin says how much he fears my deck and then proceeds to beat me with two topdecked Treetops after I Balance away the board and lay the Abyss.  Hmmm.

Game 2/3:  I win very long games; my win conditions are hiding deep in the deck.  In one I lay the Morphling to hold off his horde of 1/1 and 2/2 dorks and he Natural Orders one of them away for Verdant Force.  I dont have enough life to deal with this, so I have to -3/-3 my Morphling and then Mystical for Balance during my upkeep.  Eeek.  

Fun Games: Brent with TurboNevyn

I win the first two pretty easily; in the first, Brent is maybe too aggressive trying to drop Fastbond and I simply counter it.  He cant get find an Exploration, eventually I let him have a Horn.  He concedes when I Wish for Shattering Pulse and then refuse to use it because I am drawing as many cards off LoA+Horn as he is off Exploration+Horn.  

I lose the third when he resolves all of his important spells and starts drawing his deck.  

Conclusions: Wow, this is a lot longer report than I expected.  Wink  But here are some comments on specific things:

Dust Bowl:  Oh my.  I was doubtful about this, its been months since the tech was introduced and I have been shunning it.  But it was great.  I was never sad to see the thing, and especially in the first game against Academy it provided a lot of pressure.

CoP:Red: Boo.  I was hopeful about this, but I ended up siding the darn thing out every time.  And being sad when I drew it.  Part of this is matchups; CoPs are not the plan against Parfait or Academy for instance.  I expected a lot more Sligh.  Actually, this is maybe the problem with the Alter Reality tech: There are three decks who cant deal with your CoP; Sligh, Sui and MonoU.  Everyone else expects to have to smash an enchantment (Moat) to win.  I really could use that one more slot in the SB too.  (Now, if Alter Reality said "Change the word 'non-basic' to 'basic'" I'd play 4 of them.  Wink  

Combo:  The Combo has been very good to me in general.  Tonite it was hiding at the bottom of my deck a lot.  Not sure why; it might be that I faced dangerous opponents all night and I had less room to manuever for setting up the combo.

Anyway, I hope this is interesting and if you played at C&Js or want to play there, feel free to send me a PM.  I'd like to collect everyones name so we can try and organize showing up.
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spevack
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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2002, 05:41:12 pm »

Good report, Brian.  I had no idea you were an aspiring poet!

Getting some list of names mapped to handles for the Bay Area Type 1 crowd would be very useful.  Maybe we could even set up some sort of mailing list like those cool people in New York have.  Razz
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Saucemaster
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2002, 06:12:40 pm »

That, Mr. Spevack sir, is a great idea.  Shall we all PM you?  Did you just unwittingly volunteer yourself to set up this list?  

@Fishhead: Nice run down of our games.  

Game 1: It wasn't so much the poker face as the fact that you'd played Ancestral, D-Tutor, and I believe Vamped at EOT on the turn I resolved Mesa.  Given that I'd tried for Chant + Mesa the turn before, I was pretty sure you hadn't gone for Morphling.   

Game 2: I was actually preparing for Mox Pearl, btw--I had Aura of Silence on the table, to ensure that you'd only get one use out of it, or to take out Aura Fracture if that hit, and had two Chants and two Replenish in hand.  I was just worried what you might do with that *one* turn you were going to get if you D-Blow'd.  And then I drew another Blood Moon.

Game 3:  Yeah, I can't really stop Stroke + Ancestral + DTutor + Vamp +.....
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spevack
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2002, 06:22:40 pm »

Quote
Quote
That, Mr. Spevack sir, is a great idea.  Shall we all PM you?  Did you just unwittingly volunteer yourself to set up this list?

Sure, I'll do it.
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Zherbus
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2002, 05:59:01 am »

Quote
Quote CoP:Red: Boo.  I was hopeful about this, but I ended up siding the darn thing out every time.  And being sad when I drew it.  Part of this is matchups; CoPs are not the plan against Parfait or Academy for instance.  I expected a lot more Sligh.  Actually, this is maybe the problem with the Alter Reality tech: There are three decks who cant deal with your CoP; Sligh, Sui and MonoU.  Everyone else expects to have to smash an enchantment (Moat) to win.  I really could use that one more slot in the SB too.  (Now, if Alter Reality said "Change the word 'non-basic' to 'basic'" I'd play 4 of them.  Wink  

I dont run run the COP:red / Alter Reality either, but I figured I would play the Devils Advocate. Zuran Orb isnt the plan against Academy or Parfait either.  However, mono-blue can keg the Zorb, and Sligh can Shaman it.

Quote
Quote Game 2: He gets his revenge here, I Mana Drain something mostly irrelevant because I want a big turn with FoF and Cunning Wish.  I draw poop off the FoF and am tapped out, he EoTs for Blood Moon.  Bad news.  I go to town with Shattering Pulse though, because I have nothing but Mountains.  

I make a mistake in the mid-game as we are both draw-going.  I have 2 Mis-Ds and a Fow in my hand.  That means I can only keep one other card in hand; I have to choose between D Tutor and Y-Will.  I choose Will, thinking I can get the Tutor back with Will.  Um, no, because I will only ever have one source of black mana again; the Mox Jet.  I draw the D-Blow and wish that I hadnt screwed up; I could Tutor for the Pearl and smash the Blood Moon and get back in the game.  Shortly after he drops a second Blood Moon and I am hosed.  I'm not sure that my mistake made any difference; it would still be hard to juggle all my win conditions even after I had broken out of the Moon; losing Will means I have no recursion.  But its always better to make fewer mistakes rather than more.

I have 2 Island worked in to the maindeck to fight off non-basic hate and so far so good. I might drop to 1, but 2 seems fine for now with the fetchlands.

Quote
Quote Getting some list of names mapped to handles for the Bay Area Type 1 crowd would be very useful.  Maybe we could even set up some sort of mailing list like those cool people in New York have.  Razz

Are you referring to the Paragons list? There is more people from Richmond, VA than anywhere else. 3 are from VA, 2 are from NYC, 2 are from OH, 1 is from Belgium, 2 are from New England (NH and CT), 1 from Germany, 1 is in the military somewhere I think, 1 is from Florida, and 1 is from the Phillipines. Just wanted to clear up the common misconception that the Paragons are all from NG NYC (or play mirror matches all day. Wink )
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Fishhead
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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2002, 04:33:46 pm »

Quote
Quote Zuran Orb isnt the plan against Academy or Parfait either.  However, mono-blue can keg the Zorb, and Sligh can Shaman it.

I agree there.  I actually gave up on Zorb a couple years back when good players were bringing highly tuned Sligh to the tournaments.  That deck is just too fast and too full of Shaman for poor Zorb to be of any use.  Oddly, I wished that it cost 1, like Ivory Tower so at least they'd waste a turn eating it.  

Lately though, I tried Zorb out again and enjoyed it.  It seems much better against decks that are more mid-range and less mega-aggro.  Still, my personal verdict on both Zorb and CoP:Red are that they are metagame dependent; if you expect good Sligh, Zorb is useless and CoP:Red is king.  

My comments were more that I was disappointed in CoP:Red + Alter Reality.  I expected it to be great, fabulous tech.  But it never came up useful.  And the more I thought about it, the more I realized that if I'm not playing against Red, I might as well side it out because I dont want to try to put together a two-card combo to make a CoP.

Quote
Quote I have 2 Island worked in to the maindeck to fight off non-basic hate and so far so good.

I played with one on Thursday and really wished it was two.  Against decks with non-basic hate (Blood Moon, BtB), there is nothing like putting that Island down.  I could operate pretty fully under Blood Moon with two Islands, though BtB is still a problem.

Quote
Quote Combo:  The Combo has been very good to me in general.  Tonite it was hiding at the bottom of my deck a lot.  Not sure why; it might be that I faced dangerous opponents all night and I had less room to manuever for setting up the combo.

I had a realization about this.  Usually I play either 3 or 4 Impulses.  This means not only are the bottom 9-12 cards of my deck known by the end of the game, but I also have 3-4 more mini-tutors.  Obviously, it should be easier to put together the Combo under these conditions.
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Zherbus
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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2002, 05:26:14 pm »

Quote
Quote I played with one on Thursday and really wished it was two.  Against decks with non-basic hate (Blood Moon, BtB), there is nothing like putting that Island down.  I could operate pretty fully under Blood Moon with two Islands, though BtB is still a problem.

I actually left my Undiscovered Paradise in the deck. I run ZERO City of Brass just because of B2B. For B2B, I have 2 Islands and an UP that is working great. For Bloodmoon, I of course have the islands that Ill try to fetch pre-moon (fetchies are just stinking mountains) and I can wish for the lone Blue Elemental Blast in the board.

Quote
Quote Lately though, I tried Zorb out again and enjoyed it.  It seems much better against decks that are more mid-range and less mega-aggro.  Still, my personal verdict on both Zorb and CoP:Red are that they are metagame dependent; if you expect good Sligh, Zorb is useless and CoP:Red is king.  

My comments were more that I was disappointed in CoP:Red + Alter Reality.  I expected it to be great, fabulous tech.  But it never came up useful.  And the more I thought about it, the more I realized that if I'm not playing against Red, I might as well side it out because I dont want to try to put together a two-card combo to make a CoP.

Agreed, I just dont think I'd play in a meta where I would need a maindeck COP:Red. Against Sligh, I hold on to Zuran Orb in my hand as long as I think I can get away with it. I wont drop it, unless I intend to drop some immediate lands for it, I got rid of some shamans, or both.
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specialk
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2002, 10:31:19 pm »

I always thought the Alter Reality was for the REB and BEB so that they were targeting an illegal card then it would counter itself an advantage since you can target 2 of the Blast.
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CrazyCarl
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2002, 01:52:24 am »

You can't target a non-Blue(for REB) or non-red(for BEB) card with the Elemental Blasts.  For PYROBLAST you can, so if you run Alter Reality with a Pyroblast, it might be a bit stronger(however it means you'd have to somehow draw 2 wishes, GL with that).  So i think sticking with the BEB is fine, but i'm curious as to how you found room for it.  My SB is still trying to fit back in Allay(because it's just soo good).

Carl
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Fishhead
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2002, 06:05:53 pm »

I thought he was trying to say that you use Alter Reality to mess up other peoples ReBs in the mirror etc?  The message is a little incoherent, so I cant really tell though.  In any case, its a pretty thin use.

Anyway, there are probably 10 or so uses that are slightly likely to happen (ReBs, Dystopia, the CoP, Pro-Black creatures vs Abyss; etc) but I dont see it being worth a sideboard slot.  Even if you expect enough Sligh to play maindeck CoP:Red, I'm still not sure about Alter Reality.  

My favorite suggestion that you use it to change FoW so you can pitch-cast it under Az's Celestial Dawn.  Wink  (Too bad this doesnt work.)
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