I utilize both Ceta Disciple and Gorilla Shaman in my bui...

[centroles]

I utilize both Ceta Disciple and Gorilla Shaman in my build with quite some success. My build can be found here.

It's also quoted below...

Quote U R A Gay Fish

Critters
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Voidmage Prodigy
4 Spiketail Hatchling
3 Ceta Disciple
1 Gorilla Shaman

Disruption
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
2 Null Rod

Draw
4 Standstill
4 Curiosity

Mana
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Faerie Conclave
5 Fetchlands
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island

Sideboard
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Energy Flux
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Null Rod
1 Pyroclasm
1 Blood Moon
1 Misdirection
1 Boomerang
1 Fire/Ice
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Maze of Ith
1 Psionic Blast
1 Arcane Lab

This is one of the strongest decks in the current meta. This is a more aggressive build than most other versions. But the larger number of creatures are essential in giving you the security to sacrifice creatures in order to counter spells. Ceta Disciple is my own personal tech and one that I've been very pleased with. It can be sacrificed to Voidmage Prodigy and it's pumping ability combined with Lavamancer can be quite a deterrant to even the largest of blockers such as Karn, Silver Golem. I see little reason why one should opt to play Flying Men in it's place when there are so many other flyers that can be enchanted with curiosity instead. I would certainly opt to play Daze were it not for the already large number of creatures that can be sacrificed to counter spells. The higher permanant count also helps against the Workshop matchups.

Discuss

[wuaffiliate]

you have way too many threats, and crap ones at that. ceta isnt really needed, this deck needs threats that can use their ability and attack(or the ability does dmg, or its very usefull). ceta is just bad really, you run 4-5 extra threats which leaves you with less disruption in aspect to misd/stifle/daze. disruption is more important than ever right now, its a mistake to go low on disruption and high on threats.

also dont you ever get mana fucked? 24 should really be the lowest you go. anything lower ive found myself being mana screwed often.

[centroles]

i agree with you, disruption is more important than ever now. i think what you're missing is that most of my threats are disruptive too.

ceta disciple takes up the one mana slot that many others opt to give to the IMO vastly inferior flying men. I think ceta disciple is superior than flying men because it can ...

A. be sacced to voidmage prodigy to counter a spell since it's a wizard.

B. be used to rancor a creature (give it +2/+0) which makes your opponents wary to block your guys even with stuff as big as karn assuming you have lavamancer in play as well.

c. serves as a great blocker against aggro decks because it can both block and tap to take down any creature with toughness three or five with lavamancer in play.

grim lavamancer can also both be sacced to voidmage to counter a spell and eats stuff like goblin welders for breakfast.

voidmage prodigy is the very embodiment of disruption. just having this guy in play with two mana open makes your opponents very hesistent to play key spells.

spiketail hatling has a built in daze which while not a great counterspell will force your opponents to wait a turn longer and leave a mana slot open to play their spells only to have them countered with a voidmage or Force of Will anyways.

gorilla shaman eats moxen, winter orbs, chalices, and provided you have the mana, other key artifacts like sphere for breakfast.

thus the only creature in the whole deck that doesn't have a disruption element is cloud of faries, and i'm not getting rid of those.

the large creature base means that i don't have to worry about saccing a few guys to counterspells and will have enough permenents to buy time with stax.

now that you know my reason, i'm interested to know what creature/disruption base you would run.

i'm actually considering removing null rods altogether for gorilla shaman, is this a good idea?

you're right about the mana base though, that's the main concern i have. sometimes it flows perfectly but everyonce in a while it screws me over.

[wuaffiliate]

Quote (centroles @ Nov. 30 2003,19:32)i agree with you, disruption is more important than ever now. i think what you're missing is that most of my threats are disruptive too.

no more disruptive than the common creature base really, you just have more creatures to sac to kai, and less spells to disrupt with. thats not very efficient.

this is my disruption base:
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
3 Stifle
3 Null Rod
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

fish still needs to force through standstill, so 5-6 pitch spells is the way to go. stifle is superior to daze in my testing, it really is not as situational.

this is my threat base:
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Spiketail Hatchling
3 Mogg Fanatic (this week's testing toy over kai)
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Faerie Conclave

22 threats is plenty for this deck, there is no need to go above 23-24 imo.

you really have not explained why your list is superior to what it pretty much standard now, you just made the deck less disruptive and more situational.

also why the terrible SB?
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Energy Flux
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Null Rod
1 Pyroclasm
1 Blood Moon
1 Misdirection
1 Boomerang
1 Fire/Ice
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Maze of Ith
1 Psionic Blast
1 Arcane Lab

thats insanely random, with alot of sub-optimal choices, and really seems ineffective.\n\n

[Rebel428]

A.  An irrelevant argument.  The same can be said for dozens of other creatures, plus you already have Grim Lavamancer if really needed.

B.  Wait.... blocking?  What's that?

Seriously, I'm sure there are other things worth worrying about more than combat.  Having flying with which to abuse Curiosity is better than a usually-useless pump ability.

C.  Again.... blocking?  Creature decks are the reason you bring in stuff like Maze of Ith, Psionic Blast, Waterfront Bouncer, Boomerang, or Sigil of Sleep from the sideboard anyway.

Speaking of sideboards, what the hell is with the wish-style sideboard without running actual Cunning Wish?  Do you HONESTLY EXPECT to consistently draw something you side in with a sideboard like that?

Regarding Gorilla Shaman vs. Null Rod:
Let's see.... paying mana over and over again to reactively destroy artifacts, or shutting the vast majority of them down altogether and preventing their use in the first place?  Tough choice there, especially when you have no artifacts of your own to shut down.  </sarcasm>

In short, lose the Ceta Disciples (and possibly the lone Gorilla Shaman) for some Misdirections, Null Rods, and/or Dazes and another mana source or two.  Oh, and fix that terrible list of cards you call a sideboard.

P.S.  Capital letters exist for a reason.\n\n

[PhOeNiX]

Okay...

Ceta Disciple is complete shit. You're essentially paying one Red mana to get in an extra point of damage. This is hardly good. The only thing this garbage is good for is pitching to Force of Will or getting sacced to Voidmage Prodigy, and these don't warrant the inclusion of such a card.

You seem to be running way too much creatures. I would definately get rid of the Disciples and perhaps one Voidmage Prodigy, as four seems rather excessive. Running around 15-16 creatures and 6-7 manlands seems right. 24-25 seems like a good number, especially when 4 Wastelands, 1 Strip Mine,

Your SB is complete jank. How do you expect to draw sideboarded cards when you're just running one-ofs? I would add much more focus to this, as yours seems completely random.

You are running so little land. 24-25 seems like a decent number, especially when the deck uses 4 Wastelands, 1 Strip Mine, and 6-7 manlands.

[centroles]

Thanks for the comments.

Please try out a couple of ceta disciples though. Yes their biggest advantage is that they can be sacced to Voidmage. But I think many of you are underestimating how useful this is for a one drop.

you counter a spell and still have the voidmage and lavamancer around to counter more.

the rancor like ability is just gravy.

[Jacob Orlove]

Read this thread. Now.

Quote E) NEVER, EVER , FOR ANY REASON, MAKE A REPLY LIKE: Just try it for yourself! Why? Because such a statement always follows negative commentary, and if I don't like your deck ,OF COURSE I'm not going to fucking test it. You know it and I know it. MEANINGFUL testing takes a lot of time and commitment, and I usually don't even test my OWN decks and ideas enough because I just don't have time. So I sure as hell won't test yours. If you want to invite people to test with/against you or challenge them to a match, that is fine, but don't say 'Just try it' , because we won't, and neither would you, and if you dont know it you damn well should.

And you didn't address any of their other arguments either.

So, I'm Closing this thread, since you're rejecting all the useful comments being offered.\n\n