Well im only going too be home for tonight, then vacation...

[BreathWeapon]

I think the best possible budget list is one that runs Verdant Forces MD.

I'm really changing my mind on the best build, Unmask kind of sucks all around from what i've seen in Dragon. Therapy is just superior by far.

I think we could probably important PTW's Spoils Dragon, replace Bazaar of Baghdad with Jalum Tome, cut the Squees for Cabal Therapy ... which are better than MD Squees or Swarms by far, IMO, and cut the Necromancey's for the restricted Tutors. Also, I think Ancient Tomb is a really strong choice as well over Disruption slots 5-8.

This way, we have a deck that can combo off turn 2 about 1 in 3 games and can look at a long term game plan with Jalum Tome and Verdants.

With aggressive Mulligans, it should go something like ...

2xSwamp
1xAnimate Dead
1xSpoils of the Vault
1xDark Ritual
1xElvish Spirit Guide

First turn drop Swamp and Spoils for Buried Alive, pass. Second turn drop Swamp and Dark Ritual for Buried Alive, then use the other Swamp and ESG to Animate for the win. If your play vs Control, Duressing probably isn't enough to push the combo thru'.

The SB would be; Swarms, Deeds, Verdants and probably Necromancey's to avoid various forms of hate.

[BuboniC]

I want too MD Verdants pretty bad- and want too test out B/G. I need alt. Kills, and Forcew would be the card they crypt in response to- then I go off.

[Crater Hellion]

I've been MD'ing verdants for months.. and they have treated me well..
4 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Sliver Queen
1 Ambassador Laquatus
2 Verdant Force
2 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Buried Alive
1 Entomb
4 Dance of the Dead
3 Animate Dead
2 Necromancy
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Spoils of the Vault
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Dark Ritual
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Chrome Mox
2 Ancient Tomb
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Swamp
SB: 4 Illusionary Mask
SB: 4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
SB: 4 Phyrexian Negator
SB: 1 Sutured Ghoul
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
This list is obviously not budget, but it can be worked with fairly easily. - Bazaars for MILLIKIN, lotus and jet are easily replaced with a swamp and a fetch.

[LotusHead]

I am possibly going to try out Jalome Tomb, due to the fact that an Animated Worldgorger Dragon + Jalome Tomb + Underground Sea = Victory, but what is all this talk about Milikin?  

The whole reason why we use Sliver Queen, Arial Caravan or Ambassador Laquatus etc is that their ability does not require them to tap.  

Having a Milikin in play when you "go off" does you no good. Summoning sickness happens unless your creature was in play under your control at the beginning of your turn. Please end this Milikin talk unless you really just want to mill yourself for 1 card each turn to get one colorless mana!

Anyways, to further the Budget Dragon discussion, I always have my lucky Capsize in my sideboard JUST IN CASE my opponent has Ivory Mask or some other "I can't be targeted" thing in play, or god forbid, a Platinum Angel out.  I haven't the heart to make my Dragon.dec mono black because of that sort of hoser.  (no, I don't have access to pernicious deed or even Nevynrall's Disk anymore).

Why do many of the Dragon.dec lists contain only 2-3 actual kills? (Sliver Queen, Laquatus, Stroke in the sideboard)  Dragon has room in the main deck, does it not?  Beyond having a Dragon in the graveyard, we still need a Kill Card in hand? (if not in the graveyard).  Most Dragon Decks usually contain 20ish mana/accellerants, 20ish combo cards, and another 20 for kill/disruption/draw/search.  With the possibility/certainity of having infinite mana, there are many different ways to kill your opponents.  From buyback Lab Rats to Stroke of Genius to Flamewave Invoker to Sliver Queen to any number of Instant Speed Kills, how many kill cards should a Dragon player play?  Should we ONLY rely on 2-3 kill conditions?

For the record, I have been playing Dragon for about 6 weeks, stubling opon the combo in my actual honest to goodness dragon deck (with Dragonstorm, Scornful Egotists, Energy Tap, Burnt Offering, etc).  I had acquired Worldgorger Dragons because I was collecting dragons and happened to have Animate spells because people like to Terror, counter, Wrath of God my dragons.  After I saw the possibilities of simply Animating a Worldgorger Dragon, I re-fitted my deck with Buried Alive, Intuition, more animates and some infinite mana kill conditions. My deck appenently was akin to budget dragon.  Though I have Moxen and Lotus, I don't think that Dragon really needs them.  Sol Ring and Dark Rituals etc are enough.

[BuboniC]

Quote (LotusHead @ Dec. 08 2003,01:18)Having a Milikin in play when you "go off" does you no good. Summoning sickness happens unless your creature was in play under your control at the beginning of your turn. Please end this Milikin talk unless you really just want to mill yourself for 1 card each turn to get one colorless mana!

Thnik now, all permanents phase out when you animate dragon- then come back in- untapped, float a mana and mill 1 card with milikin, keep doing it until you mill laquatus- get infinite mana, and then choose a new target with animate- laquatus, and mill them to death. That is the whole point of Jalum Tome, it has the same effect but is one less, but with Tome you get too choose.

[xaos]

Quote (BuboniC @ Dec. 08 2003,15:20)

Quote (LotusHead @ Dec. 08 2003,01:18)Having a Milikin in play when you "go off" does you no good. Summoning sickness happens unless your creature was in play under your control at the beginning of your turn. Please end this Milikin talk unless you really just want to mill yourself for 1 card each turn to get one colorless mana!

Thnik now, all permanents phase out when you animate dragon- then come back in- untapped, float a mana and mill 1 card with milikin, keep doing it until you mill laquatus- get infinite mana, and then choose a new target with animate- laquatus, and mill them to death. That is the whole point of Jalum Tome, it has the same effect but is one less, but with Tome you get too choose.

sorry, but the WGD 'phasing' doesnt work like the mechanic Phasing, mat.  true, they do come in untapped, but they do trigger CIP abilities, and thus are treated, in the case of creatures, as having summoning sickness.  summoning sickness doesnt occur with keyworded phasing because it skips the "comes into play" part, it's treated as if it were there since the beginning of the turn.  hope this was coherent enough to get the point across

[BuboniC]

Meh, so that means Milikin is out, and it looks like Tome gets the slot, Im thinking of packing more hate against other decks to make up for the lack of speed. Any thoughts?

[Sytupal]

I love how chet JUST got his DCI number yet knows more rules than most other people at least in this area.... it's entertaining.