[Article] A Closer Look at Trinisphere

[Smmenen]

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=6606

This article summarizes some testing experience with Trinisphere and provides a more realistic analysis of the card's impact.

Steve

[rozetta]

That was a very well written article with nicely presented facts about the card and how it works with the Stax/MUD archetype. The points you underlined about the inherent inconsitencies of prison decks are also very valid. Good job!

[Jawman16]

Good article and I agree with many points made. I like how you address the sheer power of this card when going first with Workshop in hand.  It is something that is going to have to be adressed in the coming months.  I will agree that if you draw this card either going second or later in the game it is but and annoyance.  But off a first turn workshop, well there you might have a broken ass problem especially as you say if it is followed up with a Smokestack or a Wasteland.

[-SuperPoPo-]

Workshop must be restricted!!!!  

Oh please..... Stop making stupid remarks with NO foundation whatsoever, thanks - Next time, I'll simply delete it.

[BreathWeapon]

Thank god, somebody else who agrees that its better than Sphere of Resistance Has anyone given much thought on whether or not Trinisphere should be used over Bloodmoon MD in Slavery (Workshop)? It seems like the perfect lock piece for the deck, IMO.

[cssamerican]

Excellent article as always. One question, this seems like it would even be stronger in wMud than Stax because of the ability to drop a MetalWorker turn 2, and having it virtually untouchable for a turn. This seems much easier than tring to get non-Workshop mana into play and casting Thirst for Knowledge or Draw sevens. I was wondering what was your take is on this?

[ump]

Is there room to run Trinisphere maindeck and Sphere of Resistance in the sideboard and then pick between the two for games two and three depending on whether you go first or not?  Or is the sideboard too tight already?  Or is Trinisphere better than Sphere of Resistance even if you are going second?  Do you aggressively mulligan to get a first turn Trinisphere in certain matchups?

[Smmenen]

Good article and I agree with many points made. I like how you address the sheer power of this card when going first with Workshop in hand.  It is something that is going to have to be adressed in the coming months.  I will agree that if you draw this card either going second or later in the game it is but and annoyance.  But off a first turn workshop, well there you might have a broken ass problem especially as you say if it is followed up with a Smokestack or a Wasteland.

Its not going to be restricted.  In fact, part of the reason I wrote this article was to head off potential lines of argument down that path.

Use in Slavery?  I don't know.  I haven't touched Slavery since December so I'm not qualified to say - even though I helped devleop the meandeck version.  I would say not though.  Although I could be wrong.

@ump:
GREAT question.  You have recognized a key distinction that most people miss - the absolutely critical difference between going first and second.  My personal opinion is and has been that both Sphere and Trinisphere are ass going second.  The question is: whuich is worse.  I think the jury is still out on this.  My cohort Kevin Cron thinks Trinisphere is worse, I am not sure.  I think if you are going second, you should bring in bombs.

@CS: I think there is no doubt its strong in MUD, but I didn't want to expose Arthur Tindeman's build of the new TriniMud.  I think that MUD definately gets a boost in Trinisphere, but is it better than Stax?  I'll leave that you guys.

Steve

[TheFram]

In testing how much did drawing extra Trinispheres bother you steve? I did limited goldfishing with something similar for my Darksteel preview article, and I found that drawing multiple Trinispheres was a more than minor annoyance.

-TheFram

[Smmenen]

It never really came up and when it did it felt good.  First becuase if one was countered, then I had another in store.  Second, becuase I had a target to weld out or sac OR, you can let one tap down on your upkeep if you know you are going to get your Jar action on - then multiple Trinispheres keep popping up and you like every one.  I did have a few games where I drew 3 and that was awful - but it was a mulligant hand anyway.

Steve

[TheFram]

My qualm with trinisphere from goldfishing was this:

It is not a turn 2 card. At least, it is my impression that when playing T.Sphere later than first turn (going first), it is weaker than Sphere o/ Resistance. In multiples, I would def. rather have Sphere o/ R. My guess from goldfishing is that if the turn 1 trinisphere is FoW'd, drawing another Trinisphere is worse than drawing Sphere of R. I think at the very least there is a strong defensible position of not running Trinisphere in Stax/WMUD at all. Additionally the lack of synergy between Sphere o/R and T.Sphere, as well as T.Sphere's uselessness in multiple cause me to doubt its strength. This all leads me to agree with the over all premise of your article, Steve, though I don't really feel that T. Sphere is a Stax/WMUD card.

[xrizzo]

Steve, great article.  I am glad to see a small majority of people realizing the potential of this card.  I eventually think that 3 will be the right number as you don't want multiples too bad, but the tricks you can do with this card are insane.  A lot of people thought that the tapping ability would hurt the card, but combined with tangle wire, I think it significantly adds to its value.

It should be noted that Trinisphere going 2 is not a terrible play if the opponent failed to play acceleration.  We all remember the double mox or lotus start, but there are many games which start underground sea, go.  Or Tundra go.  Trinisphere is still a solid going second play at that point - and the deck is capable of handling other threats with tangle wire, chalice, and others...

[BreathWeapon]

Out of curiosity, why did you decide to cut Time Walk, Windfall and Mindslaver (The other Tinker Target) from the list in favor of Lotus Petal and Grim Monolith? They seem like speculative acceleration at the cost of more broken cards ... and Time Walk is mana acceleration in a round about manor.

[Smmenen]

Good Questions.

I never had a single Mindslaver.  Although I could.  Time Walk is clearly cuttable.  It has possibly the worst synergy with this deck imaginable with Wires and Smokestack.  This deck had Meditate, remember?  I hate Windfall and I love Lotus Petal - I don't really care one way or the other about Grim.  

Steve

[BreathWeapon]

I think the Mindslaver provides another enjoyable dimention to the deck as a secondary kill condition and lock piece. The more versatile Tinker is the more likely you are to pull games out of your arse with it. I can agree that Windfall is questionable, its sort of the Grim Monolith of the Draw 7's (The first to get cut). Now, despite Time Walk having poor synergy with Smokestack and Wire in the Mid-Late game, I think its an important tool in quickly setting up the manabase and establishing board control. I would think its brokenness warrants its inclusiong over Monolith, but I could be entirely wrong. I'll put the Monolith back in and see if it even makes a difference.

[Jakedasnake]

Excellent article. Although I disagree with many of your points, your articles are always fun to read because you are able to articulate your thoughts so well.

Basically, Trinisphere just doesn't seem better to me than Sphere because of the ability to cast it turn 1. Basically, with an opening hand with Mishra's Workshop, Trinishpere is basically always better. However, they both, essentially, do the same thing; prevent your opponent from having a strong Turn 1 play (or turn 2. However, both aren't really strong turn 2 plays.) Whether they're able to play a Mox or not doesn't really make much of a difference. After your first turn, you'll be able to follow up with a harder lock piece, like Tangle Wire or Smokestack.

What is basically comes down to is the fact that you'll almost always be able to cast a Sphere of Resistance turn 1, where as a Trinisphere needs a Workshop, Lotus, or a bunch of jewelry. Although the play of Sphere is theoretically weaker, it's stronger virtually because you can always count on being able to play it first turn, which pushes you into a stronger lock. Trinisphere can basically do this by itself, but only with a fast hand.

[BreathWeapon]

Sphere of Resistance vs Trinisphere in Stax is a big difference in comparison to wMUD. A lot of people simply look at Sphere, then look at Trinisphere and think they can measure the pro's and con's of each card without taking into consideration the deck they are playing. I really think Smmenen hit the knail on the head when he said, "Stax is a pre-built deck for Trinisphere." wMUD is up in the air for me, but i'm strongly moving towards Sphere of Resistance as the better card. TnT and Stacker should actually consider running Trinisphere as disruption, which is significantly better than Sphere of Resistance for Aggro Prison.

One point i'd like to bring up, because it hasn't been addressed in the article or by the community yet, is why you chose to use Thirst for Knowledge instead of Meditate? I'm still trying to figure out which one I like better, and i'm really surprised no one else has raised an eye brow to your choice in Draw Engins. Cutting Meditate seems a lot more controversial than trying to decide which Sphere we should be using, even if that was the point of the article.

[defector]

I only just aquired my 4th trinisphere, so my testing is limited at this point.  I have one thing to say about the argument so far, Trinisphere hurts me less than sphere in a series of bad topdecks or in the event of a wasted workshop.  I also like to set my Chalice to two, so with 4 Trinisphere, I have only one card that costs 2(monolith) to play in the entire deck(yes I cut black), I only have 5 at one, and only 3 at 0.  So trnisphere has better synergy with chalice. I'll report back if my testing shows me something special.  By the way Steve, another excellent article.  Thank you for the thorough clarification fo the card, you definitely answered my questions.  The stuff you said about stax is right on, I've spent the last fewmonths trying to make it false, still working.

[Rico Suave]

Why not skip whether Trinisphere is better than Sphere or not and simply run both?

[Matt]

I think it's because they have to cut SOMETHING to fit in 3-4 Trinisphere, and Sphere of Resistance does tend to work at cross-purposes with Trinisphere.

[Rico Suave]

It also works well when Trinisphere isn't drawn, is countered/discarded, or when the opponent casts something at 3cc, like Tog, Rack and Ruin, etc.

There are other options in the deck to cut, too.

I was just wondering if it was too much of a pain or too lenghty to cover in the article.  Either way, it's good to bring up here.

[defector]

My logic was this.
Smokestack, cut this and your running a different deck.
Tangle Wire/Trinisphere, impedes ability to cast spells.
Sphere/Trinisphere, impedes ability to cast spells.
So I cut wire first and ran it for awhile and then I cut sphere and ran it for awhile, I liked it better with wire in the deck because wire is stronger versus aggro than sphere, mainly what I deal with.  I'm still not convinced that 3phere is better yet than sphere of resistance.  I'll run this configuartion for awhile.  Also, I don't understand how 3sphere works with chalice.  More hinges on this than the wire/sphere/3sphere debate.  Namely does chalice=2 still counter artifact mutation with a 3sphere in playe, does chalice=3 counter every spell that costs 0,1,2,3.  Maybe I missed something in the description, but this has already caused one argument.
thanx
defector

[Xhad]

Trinisphere does not have any effect on the converted mana cost of a spell, it just forces you to pay more mana to play it.  Therefore, chalice for 2 will counter a 2-mana spell even if there is a Trinisphere in play, while chalice for 3 will not.

[defector]

Thank you Xhad, I wasn't sure.  That being said, 3sphere is a house.  As good as sphere of resistance with some scenarios gouing either way.  I'm going to run it until I get tired of it or they print something better.
defector