[Deck] Cobra Commander

[jazzykat]

This is my hateful jank pile that happens to be the color of Cobra Commanders uniform. It is primarily blue with black accents and a red splash. I built it to screw with decks like slaver and physcatog. I imagine it can turn the screws to other decks too.


It is another direction of EBA that is designed to screw good decks. It is also 1 piece of power off from a budget list if you have drains.

Cobra Commander: 61 Cards

23 Mana Sources
-----------------------
1 Lotus
1 Jet
1 Sapphire
1 Ruby (thank you Moxlotus!)
5 Strips
3 Underground Seas
4 Polluted Deltas
3 Volcanics
3 islands
1 swamp

10 Disruption
-------------------------
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Damping Matrix
3 Stifles

8 Creatures
-------------------------
4 Phyrexian Negators
4 Flametonge Kavus

5 Draw
-------------------------
1 Ancestral
4 Thirst for knowledge

2 Borken
-------------------------
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor

8 Counter Spells
-------------------------
4 FOW
4 Mana Drains

4 Removal
-------------------------
4 Fire/Ice


SB
-----------------
3 Null Rod
4 Rack and Ruin
4 REB
2 Blood Moon
3 Tormod's Crypts

OK, now let me go card by card to explain why cards are in here:

While reading keep in mind I want to some how play with 3 sphere due to my cc's (perhaps by getting ancient tombs in?) and feel that the FTK's are necessary against any deck with creatures as you don't outdraw them you need to get 2 for 1 this way and can often save a counter.

This deck will effectively hose tendrils combo due to MD chalices and will cause other tier 1 decks grief. This is not an effort to replace tier 1 decks but just something to play that is aggravating to play against and fun to play with. It will give people fits at times!


LANDS
On color artifact acceleration: Since Null rods are in the board and are going to be included vs. the best decks (i.e. the ones that use all the moxes/lotus/crypt or sol ring) we don't want useless colors ruining the mana base. Chalice will often be set to 0 as well, especially if you go first vs. fully powered opponents. 4 pieces of artifact acceleration also let you set chalice for 1 a fair amount of the time on your first time which shuts off: welder, brainstorm, weenie decks (which this deck will roll over and die to), stp, ancestral (yours too!), stifle (yours too!), mox monkeys, stp, bolts and chain lightning (very important when playing with negator).

5 Strips: A common theme is land destruction. If you couple these with a first turn chalice for 0, and stifles you can give fully powered opponents with fetches (drain slaver, tog, keeper, etc) fits.

3 of each dual land: It's definitely enough as the deck is primarily blue.

4 Fetches: Use these as necessary, very good to set up a blood moon by fetching a basic island or swamp too!

3 islands and 1 swamp: I really want to run blood moon in the deck. Against the 4 color control decks, and dargon it is so good. Blood moon also screws landstill! You obviously can use them to get around opponents wastelands as well.


DISRUPTION
Chalices: Well as I said before they are an integral part of screwing decks, and since your mana curve is set in a way that the 0, and 1 slots are not that utilized it is even more brutal vs. good decks. The sick thing is that you can set it for 2 vs. tog, landstill, and other control decks and screw them BIG TIME while you loose your F/I, demonic, and drains (it may seem like a lot to shut off but when other decks have AK, merchant scroll, balance, standstill, mana leak, counter spell, dryads, etc it might be the play)

Damping Matrix: Is probably the reason to play this deck. It shuts off mean artifacts like slaver, and evil creatures like tog, mongrel, and welder. It also makes your F/I more effective vs. said pumpable creatures since you can easily burn them!!!

Stifles: Are utility cards, use them in as crafty a manner as possible and use them early, because you are probably going to shut them off with a chalice for one. If you can't then just pitch them to force.

CREATURES
The weakest part of the list. I love negator and with chalice set at 1 it isn't that dangerous to have him about. (Fire isn't so bad, just sack 2 lands. You usually have more, or just counter the damn thing!) He is an easy to drain into, as is the FTK. The FTK is a bad ass to take out opposing fat, which is very necessary as this deck does not always counter everything due to its clunky draw engine and spending time screwing the opponent.

DRAW
The thirsts are to circumvent chalice numbers and are really good when you draw a mox with chalice for 0 out, an extra damping matrix, or a chalice and don't want it. Also easy to drain into with mana up for other things.


Borken
I looked at the deck and decided the only thing I would yawg will for most of the time is an ancestral, which might be shut off after a chalice for 1 anyway. I have lots of the other cards, although time walk is nice as well.

Counters:
The normal fare.

Removal
Good by themselves, true removal under damping matrix when creatures can't pump themselves. If they have big dudes out you have FTK's to knock them out, so you shouldn't be in too bad a shape. If they have offensive artifacts or enchantments try to counter or set chalice for them. In the second game you can bring in a slew of rack and ruins to break stuff.

Sideboard
Null rod: You can be a super hater vs. slaver. It also stops storm combo and screws wMud.
Rack and Ruin: Break more artifacts!
4 REB: Vs. control these will help to stop their draw engine (except scrying) to try to keep the card advantage battle in check
2 Blood Moons: painful vs. you but savage vs. dragon, and other decks with almost no basics. Just set it up intelligently or drop after you play negator, and have FOW back up
3 Tormods': dragon, tog, depends how you sideboard

The sideboard is kind of up in the air right now.
Any constructive comments are encouraged!

[AngryPheldagrif]

An interesting list, but it would seem to me that it fails to hose a good portion of the field. From experience I can tell you that Flametongue Kavu, while fun and janky, is total crap in T1 right now. The four mana, asside from a Drain, will come rarely and for that much you're better off doing something broken. The only things it is good against generally is TNT, where is trades with a pair of Juggs or Su-Chis, and most other things it is just another body. Against Phyrexian Dreadnought it is a drop in the bucket, and for Psychatog its a half-dozen spare graveyard cards.

A big problem I forsee for this deck is speed. You run 3 Moxen and a Lotus, and thats all the acceleration. Barring sideboard, what can your deck do against Swamp-Ritual-Dreadnought? All you have is a set of Forces of Will, and with so many decks packing Duresses, and to a lesser extent Cabal Therapy, Unmask, etc., I would think that many decks that can combo out, or at least jump out fast should be able to beat or at least cause serious trouble for this.

Another problem is the kill. Flametongue is a risky proposition. Against decks that run no creatures or only endgame stuff like Decree of Justice, it is a 99% dead card. Negator, while a good card, seems totally out of place here. I personally would never touch this card without Dark Ritual. Without it, barring Lotus, this is a third turn or later drop. The whole point of Negator is to slip through and put a 4 turn clock on control and such. By the time it gets out in your deck, most decks will have an answer. To put it simply, Negator just isn't a late-game card. I would look to something more in the flavor of this deck. Even the ever-ridiculed Morphling would make sense in this deck. Barring that, I would think about something that fits better and helps out with the purpose. I can't really think of anything off the top of my head except maybe Masticore, but I would imagine running 'Core would be a bit too awkward.

While I really don't see this deck as Tier 1 in the sense that it is just another hoser, and I've gone through numerous builds of those, it looks interesting enough for me to put it together on Apprentice and try out.

-Dan

[edit]: Where is the Yawgmoth's Will!?!?!?
And it is 60 cards, not 61.

For my build I've cut the Negators and Flametongues for a pair of Morphlings, 4 Duresses, and a pair of Blood Moons.

[edit #2]: And a Fire/Ice for the Yawg Will.

[jazzykat]

Hmmm...interesting the deck is taking a turn towards OSE, except I can't see having duress and chalice since the main theme of chalice is to set it for 1 to screw over a lot of decks.

With the list I had, I did not feel like yawg will was that nescessary as the deck doesn't generate a ton of mana(except off drain) and the redundancy made it less nescessary in my opinion. The best I could normally do after setting chalice for zero is to get a land, and replay ancestral, or thirst if I have the mana. Replaying timewalk is huge and may be a reason to include it. Trust me I know how good it is, I just wasn't sure if my deck was broken enough to abuse it.

I put in FTK's instead of serendibs(original) because I needed a way to stop decks like big o, and blue green (while it wasn't flying) as well as tubby decks and random aggro.

I also thought about LOA as an addition.

[Ruinn]

AngryPheldagrif:  Morphling and Masticore do not work at all in this deck because damping matrix shuts them off.  Matrix is also the card that makes the deck effective in so many matchups so removing it is obviously out of the question.  

Jazzykat: Throwing some red into an EBA style is something that I have been messing around with for nearly a month now.  However, I chose a different path than you took.  I removed the black and kept white as I felt Exalted Angel and Meddling Mage were just pure awesomeness.  

My most recent list for reference:

Meddling Matrix.dec

Mana (25):
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
4 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Strip Mine
1 Mana Crypt  <---- yes it belongs
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sol ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire

More Cards would be nice:
4 Brainstorm
4 Deep Analysis  <--- explanation below
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mystical Tutor

I don't think I live that:
4 Meddling Mage
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
3 Damping Matrix
2 Cunning wish
2 Swords to Plowshares

No Explanation Necessary:
1 Balance
1 Time Walk

Most Underrated Creature in Type 1:
3 Exalted Angel

Sideboard (or why red is in the deck):
1 Disenchant
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Blue Elemental blast
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Stifle
3 Rack and Ruin
4 Red Elemental Blast
2 Flametongue Kavu
1 Fire/Ice


Ok, first off let me explain the selection that raises the most eyebrows.  Deep Analysis... yes it does seem very odd at first but let me explain my thought process.  I need card draw, AK's are good but I want this deck to have a good matchup versus tog so they are out.  Ophidians get shut off by damping matrix.  Thirst for knowledge is good, but in the end, I liked deep anal more for a couple of reasons: This deck runs crazy acceleration, It can get me three new cards without making me discard anything, Makes the control matchup that much stronger as they essentially have to counter it twice.

Now, about all that "crazy acceleration."  It serves two purposes, getting deep anal online, and getting the angel down as fast as possible.  Getting the Angel down ASAP just wins many matchups, especially with the counter backup this deck can offer.  

Both of our decks offer favorable psychatog and slaver matchups (that was the reason I started working on this deck actually), however, I feel I am more prepared to deal with aggro than you are.  Kavu is ok, but better suited to the sideboard, and I've never been a fan of chalice in decks that do not use a lot of accerants.  Angel just sticks its middle finger up at aggro, and there is rarely a whole lot they can do about her once she is down.  In playtesting, one of my friends  refused to play any aggro decks against me after a particularly interesting series of games which involved many turn three hardcasted angels.  

One other thing that stands out differently is that you have chosen to go the mana denial route while I have given up on this.  I believe that decks are so ready for wastelands at this point they are not as effective as they once were.  However, I do run the one strip for pesky bazaar's and such.  I see it more often than you would think with all of the draw I run.  

One other thing, I feel you have way overloaded against combo.  You are a control deck remember, combo is going to be weaker against you anyway, I do not think you need as much combo hate as you are currently using.  

Sorry about the long post but when I saw this go up I realized it was something I had been working on and figured I'd offer my two cents.  Also, considerring Jazzy and I play in the same area and see each other a lot, it may give us something to talk about at next Friday's tournament.  

GL with your build.

[AngryPheldagrif]

To be frank, your deck is just a splash-happy mono-blue control. You have few viable win conditions, and a bastardized mana-base with little draw or acceleration. I had originally drawn up another long reply, but your concept simply ends up as a sub-par hate.dec that underperforms. In testing, I pretty much got beaten around by everything. Flametongues are useless. Negators are pointless. The few counters were overwhelmed in almost every matchup. The mana base was dead against any deck with Waste/Strip. The drawing power was negligable and topdecking lategame was abyssmal. You rarely draw what you need when you need it, and the lone tutor meant I'd often sit with a hand full of dead cards. As for the deck being useful against Tog and Slaver;

Hulk:
Matches your counters
Duresses the Matrices
Laughs at your lack of effective removal
Out draws you by lightyears
Wishes for Oxidize/Naturalize when you resolve a Matrix
Makes your FTKs useless
Wins

Slaver:
Accelerates way faster than you
Welds around your hate
Hoses your mana-base
Rack and Ruins your silver bullets
Out draws you
Resolves a Slaver even once and totally screws you
Blows the crap out of your win conditions


New decks and ideas are always welcome, but modifying existing builds with less optimal colors is not worth discussing. EBA and OSE would like to say that White>Red. Period.

[jazzykat]

Hmmm...well I knew the deck was rough, but I think that you may have not been able to abuse chalice as much as I had hoped. The only reason to have this deck is to be able to chalice for 1 or 0 on the first or second turn. The matrix can wait.

While the deck may be sub par and while exalted angel may be the right creature to use I would not give up on red so quickly.

Also I feel that using trinishphere/tanglewire with ancient tombs instead of wastes may be the way to go.  I actually felt the deck had a counter prison feel to it.

I will discuss with Ruinn the merits of red and then I may have more interesting ideas for you.

[AngryPheldagrif]

The only reason to have this deck is to be able to chalice for 1 or 0 on the first or second turn. The matrix can wait.

I prefer decks that can Chalice for 5 or 6 on the first or second turn

Seriously, though, Chalice for 0 or 1 is nice, but against a lot of stuff thats just not enough. Underutilizing Chalice isn't the problem, its that I often need a Chalice for 2 or 3 to wreck them, but by the time I get that much its often sitting in the graveyard due to Duress or too many damn counters. 90% of my games were pretty much either get beaten right off the bat, or stall out with counters and hosers, until finally I just lose as a result of the lack of a good win condition. With your color choices, I was getting smashed pretty much no matter what I tried. And believe me, I tried a lot. The last build I ran with was: (I just had to do that micro-white thingy because even 'Cores were barely cutting it kill-wise)

Maindeck:
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Ruby
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
3x Underground Sea
4x Poluted Delta
1x Tundra
3x Volcanic Island
3x Island
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Damping Matrix
2x Stifle
4x Masticore
1x Decree of Justice
1x Ancestral Recall
4x Thirst for knowledge
1x Time Walk
4x Duress
1x Demonic Tutor
4x Force of Will
4x Mana Drain
4x Fire/Ice

Sideboard:
4x Rack and Ruin
4x Red Elemental Blast
3x Blood Moon
4x Tormod's Crypt

And yes I am a grammar nazi with my listing  
And yes Masticore>Flametongue Kavu and Phyrexian Negator. Damping Matrix be damned.
And yes I did purposefully remove the Null Rods from the Sideboard. Not only are they and the Matrices redundant, but thats just too damn many.

In summary, no matter what it still lost. If you are determined to play it then for God's sake at least change the creatures! Don't make me give match highlights for when your original deck lost in testing against unpowered Elf-Freakin-Stompy because Wirewood Elves and Giant Growth beat the hell out of Negator    

[xzero]

3x Damping Matrix
4x Masticore

I see a problem here.

[Ruinn]

I mentioned the Damping Matrix Masticore to AngryPheldagrif earlier, but he seems intent on going with it....

[rvs]

Sorry for not having more to say than the following:

61 cards in a deck is a flawed design by default. There is always some card that doesn't make the cut. There is absolutely no reason, no matter how small the relevant % might be of not drawing a particular card, there is just no reason to play 61. I think you should cut at least 1 Flametongue Kavu, since they are not that strong since you already have 4 fire/ice to deal with the most important creatures in T1, namely Welders.

[jazzykat]

[quote="AngryPheldagrifIn summary, no matter what it still lost. If you are determined to play it then for God's sake at least change the creatures! Don't make me give match highlights for when your original deck lost in testing against unpowered Elf-Freakin-Stompy because Wirewood Elves and Giant Growth beat the hell out of Negator     [/quote]

Relax  :lol: I will continue to work on it but I am not going to play it in the current configuration!

I appreciate all your hard work and testing, I want to try one more shift to a counter prison type build as I can really how this deck is hurting now. I don't think that in my current or even slightly modifiied configuration that this deck has a chance, but adding more viscious lock components and more fast mana could be the trick.

Cheers,
Jazzy

[AngryPheldagrif]

Sorry for not having more to say than the following:

61 cards in a deck is a flawed design by default. There is always some card that doesn't make the cut. There is absolutely no reason, no matter how small the relevant % might be of not drawing a particular card, there is just no reason to play 61.

His build actually has 60 cards. He miscounted.

Masticore+Damping Matrix is the bad, yo.

I'm aware of that as I said in every other post. The problem is that Masticore is better then any other win conditions I could find. And as jazzykat said, Damping Matrices are really secondary to the Chalices. I never drop the Matrices (except to bait counters) when I have the 'Core in play or hand. Disqualifying Masticore based on a small amount of bad synergy overlooks the insane synergy of Masticore with Mana Drain (ditto the single include Decree). I know that its stupid card choice.

I will gladly change it if any of you (MoreFling and jazzykat nonwithstanding) would like to post suggestions and advice of your own, as opposed to questioning my work

"If your sig is longer than your post, you're ++ing."

[xzero]

problem is that Masticore is better then any other win conditions I could find.

Though your manabase may not like it, even Morphling would be a better choice.

[Necrologia]

And how is it that Morphling has better synergy with the Matrix than Masticore does?

[xzero]

He isn't uber-card disadvantage.  Hell, even Sedge Troll would be better than the 'Core.