3cb Tournament #28 Results and Discussion

[virtual]

I'd like to congratulate Lockdown for being the 3cb#28 winner.  

The calculations once again had some very tricky scenarios, so please check your results.  If I screwed up, it's your job to find it =)

We had no winners of the mise-prise.

Please vote on the best deck name.  I nominated what I think are the best.



Entrants:
1 virtual   WildThing   -   Viridian Zealot   -   Treetop Village   -   Words of Wilding
2 matt   Avast!   -   City of Traitors   -   Island   -   Rishadan Brigand
3 mouth   Bearz.dec   -   Elvish Lyrist   -   Words of Wilding   -   Forest
4 TimeBeing   PigDrain   -   Tropical Island   -   Pygmy Hippo   -   Elvish Spirit Guide
5 Kowal   Mystic Snake   -   Mystic Snake   -   Faerie Conclave   -   Forest
6 iLL_Dawg   3c(FE)b   -   Underground Sea   -   Volrath's Shapeshifter   -   Phage
7 Pinky   No means no!!   -   Tundra   -   Meddling Mage   -   Meddling Mage
8 Togran   Dentured Gin Beatdown    -   Indentured Djinn    -   Confiscate   -   Faerie Conclave
9 MoreFling   I <3 fatties   -   Academy Researchers   -   Mythic Proportions   -   Island
10 Stijn   U/W Control   -   Tundra   -   Meddling Mage   -   Swords to plowshares
11 wonkey_donkey   Little Blue   -   Tropical Island   -   Mystic Snake   -   Cephalid Constable
12 walter   I hope you don't have 2 threads.dec   -   Island   -   Counterspell   -   Blinkmoth nexus
13 LockDown   JusticeFortheTraitors.dec   -   City of Traitors   -   Decree of Justice   -   Plains
14 Ruinn   Vindication   -   Scrubland   -   Vindicate   -   Skittering Skirge
15 Frogboy4l   ENERGYFIELDOWNZJ00RS0UL.dec   -   Energy Field   -   Shivan Gorge   -   Volcanic Island
16 LotusHead   ShamblingMound.dec   -   Tropical Island   -   Counterspell   -   Living Terrain
17 Alfred   here is my new deck.dec   -   Ghitu Encampment   -   Hammer of Bogardan   -   Lavaborn Muse
18 xirzzo   Show your teeth.dec   -   Island   -   Show and Tell   -   Form of the Dragon
19 mdw   Farce of Will   -   Avatar of Will   -   Blinkmoth Nexus   -   Island

X   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   
1   -   0   2   0   0   0   6   0   3   4   4   6   0   0   6   6   0   6   6   49
2   6   -   6   6   6   2   6   2   2   2   2   4   0   2   0   6   2   2   0   56
3   2   0   -   3   6   6   3   0   6   3   6   3   0   0   6   4   0   6   6   60
4   3   0   3   -   6   3   3   6   3   3   3   2   1   3   0   6   6   3   6   60
5   6   0   0   0   -   0   3   3   0   1   0   3   0   4   0   0   6   3   3   32
6   3   2   0   3   6   -   3   6   0   0   0   6   0   0   0   4   6   6   6   51
7   0   0   3   3   3   3   -   0   0   3   3   4   0   0   0   6   0   3   6   37
8   6   2   6   0   3   0   6   -   0   3   3   6   0   3   6   0   6   0   6   56
9   3   2   0   3   6   6   6   6   -   0   2   3   0   0   0   3   6   6   6   58
0   1   2   3   3   4   6   3   3   6   -   2   2   0   6   0   3   0   0   2   46
1   1   2   0   3   6   6   3   3   2   2   -   2   0   6   0   0   3   0   2   41
2   0   1   3   2   3   0   1   0   3   2   2   -   0   4   3   0   6   3   2   35
3   6   6   6   4   6   6   6   6   6   6   6   6   -   6   0   6   6   6   6   100
4   6   2   6   3   1   6   6   3   6   0   0   1   0   -   6   6   0   6   2   60
5   0   6   0   6   6   6   6   0   6   6   6   3   6   0   -   6   6   6   6   81
6   0   0   1   0   6   1   0   6   3   3   6   6   0   0   0   -   6   6   6   50
7   6   2   6   0   0   0   6   0   0   6   3   0   0   6   0   0   -   0   6   41
8   0   2   0   3   3   0   3   6   0   6   6   3   0   0   0   0   6   -   6   44
9   0   6   0   0   3   0   0   0   0   2   2   2   0   2   0   0   0   0   -   17

How to read the table:
Match the deck# on the left with the deck # on top. Append a 1 for the last 5 decks. The #s on the right of that deck correspond to how many points that deck received versus the deck on top. (Once again append a 1 for the last 5. The 1's are missing to make the table more clear)

Standings:  Name Points
LockDown   100
Frogboy4l   81
mouth   60
TimeBeing   60
Ruinn   60
MoreFling   58
matt   56
Togran   56
iLL_Dawg   51
LotusHead   50
virtual   49
Stijn   46
xirzzo   44
wonkey_donkey   41
Alfred   41
Pinky   37
walter   35
Kowal   32
mdw   17

Analysis.  

Energy field 0wnZed the field.  Not much enchantment removal, and the fact that it could be dropped turn two made it a solid deck.  

Someone suspected that Dragon would own the format, that proved incorrect.  Someone else said that 5 mana turn 2 is broken... although proved true, it didn't turn out to be the winner.  

Lots of counters on this one.  That made the decree deck stronger because it could cycle around them.  

Overall a very very varied metagame.  I liked this format overall as there didn't seem to be any huge breaking plays.  The trinisphere makes it more difficult to calculate though.  I don't think I'd want to run it again for that reason.  Someone else can calculate if we do haha.  Speaking of which since I'm getting busier at work, and since wonkey_donkey and Togran have offered to help, if they can verify people's corrections and/or make an updated version of the new table that would be great.  Otherwise I can get to it as I have time.

One last thing.  My deck was very similar to mouth's, but his proved much stronger overall.  There's a lesson in that.  

-Virtual
Miscalculating mods 3cb scores for an account since 2004.  j/k

[frogboy4L]

I lose to Virtual and draw with Walter. Virtual goes Zealot to the face and I cry. Walter counters the Field when he is on the play and beats me down.

[LotusHead]

My deck should beat Ill Dawg's deck or draw.  His kill was Volrath's Shapeshifter, which I could simply block until we draw, or I would counter his Shapeshifter!  Just trying to move up the field, folks.

[wonkey_donkey]

My deck should beat Ill Dawg's deck or draw.  His kill was Volrath's Shapeshifter, which I could simply block until we draw, or I would counter his Shapeshifter!  Just trying to move up the field, folks.

You get 1 point, I think, although it's hard to calculate. Going first, he drops his shapeshifter before counterspell goes online, and then discards the phage and attacks for the win - you can't block as your land would be tapped. However, going second, you can get the living terrain down and running before the shapeshifter can come down as a copy of phage. It's no use trying to cast phage later, as you can tap the land at EOT to generate 3 mana to cast the counter. Countering the phage will make the shapeshifter become a phage, but that won't be any good by that point, because the land can block once, killing both creatures. Therefore draw.

I lose to Virtual and draw with Walter. Virtual goes Zealot to the face and I cry. Walter counters the Field when he is on the play and beats me down.

As long as he plays the island first, then he does seem to win. Well spotted.

I also think I lose 6-0 to Pinky, as his mage comes down before I get countermagic up. Also the constable's no use, as it can't attack until he has a mage to block with. Then he just waits until the second mage is castable, winning in the end.

I'm not sure about what's going on in my match against iLL_Dawg: it's possibly the most complex match I've ever seen (apart from maybe when someone used mana crypt and phyrexian processor)!

I play first:
Turns 1+2: Accumulate Mana.
Turn 3: If I play the constable; he continues to build up his mana until he has 5 mana to drop the shapeshifter and discard phage - I lose.
Turns 3-6: I continue to build up mana, as does he.
Turn 7: I cast the constable, and he answers by casting phage. I counter it, but 3 turns later he casts the shapeshifter (now a phage). I can block the phage once with mystic snake before returning the shapeshifter to his hand, but when it comes back I won't be able to cope.

I play second: Same mix as before, only he gets a better deal.

Therefore I think it's a 0-6 rather than 6-0, but I'm really confused - any help would be good.

Anyone got an idea for the next format?

tom

[Lockdown]

Wow.  I did quite well.  I actually think I might've won.  I think the only deck that can legitemately beat me 6-0 is Frogboy with the Energy Field.

The way my deck is played:
Turn 1: 1 mana
Turn 2: 4 mana
Turn 3: 7 mana (1.5 angel tokens, rounds to 1)
Turn 4: 10 mana (3 angel tokens)
Turn 5: 13 mana (4.5 angel tokens, rounds to 4)


I should beat MoreFling 6-0 instead of 0-6.  He kills on his turn 6 (turn 3 play researchers, swing for the next three turns with a 9/9).  On my turn 5, I have I have 4 4/4 angels.  3 hold back to kill his 9/9 if he attacks, and 1 flies over for the win.

I should beat xirzzo 6-0 instead of losing 0-6.  On his turn 3, he plays the Form and goes down to 5.  On my turn 4 I have 3 angel tokens.  On his next turn, he can either poke me or an angle for 5, and the remaining 2 go in for the win.

I believe I beat Timebeing 4-1 instead of 1-4 but this is more complicated.   I'll add the details later.

I believe that I beat matt 6-0 instead of 4-1.  I'll add details later.

I'm not sure, but If I'm right, that puts me at 100 points XD

[Jacob Orlove]

I believe I beat Timebeing 4-1 instead of 1-4 but this is more complicated.   I'll add the details later.

If he ever doesn't empty your pool, you can then tap your lands for 2W, then untap and tap them for 2W again to drop an angel and win. If he empties your pool, you take no damage. He has to use the spirit guide for mana to stop you from getting a decree off when he goes first, so he can't actually win. When you go first, you can get to an Angel before he can attack.

[card]Pygmy Hippo[/card]
Remember, it deals no damage when it empties their mana pool.

[wonkey_donkey]

I should beat MoreFling 6-0 instead of 0-6.  He kills on his turn 6 (turn 3 play researchers, swing for the next three turns with a 9/9).  On my turn 5, I have I have 4 4/4 angels.  3 hold back to kill his 9/9 if he attacks, and 1 flies over for the win.

I should beat xirzzo 6-0 instead of losing 0-6.  On his turn 3, he plays the Form and goes down to 5.  On my turn 4 I have 3 angel tokens.  On his next turn, he can either poke me or an angle for 5, and the remaining 2 go in for the win.

I believe that I beat matt 6-0 instead of 4-1.  I'll add details later.

I think you're right about all except morefling. Xrizzo's match is relatively easy to calculate, but matt's is harder. You do win it, as you just have time to generate 2 angel tokens if you drop the city first, as he does 18 damage to you before you get your angels into play - not enough. Going for soldiers is no good, but it's just too slow a clock for the angels.

Morefling's match, however, is different. He plays his researchers on turn 3, whilst you drop angels on turn 5. If he does all the trample damage to 1 of the angels, it is enough to kill you. However, if you play first you can get the angels down when you are on 12 life still, which is enough to survive on and hence kill him. 3-3.

Any feedback on next format or my match with iLL_Dawg?

Tom

[mouth]

One last thing. My deck was very similar to mouth's, but his proved much stronger overall. There's a lesson in that.

Solid.

Sadly, this is my best 3cb finish ever, so anyone that thinks they actually beat me, just stfu, plz, thx.

[Lockdown]

Morefling's match, however, is different. He plays his researchers on turn 3, whilst you drop angels on turn 5. If he does all the trample damage to 1 of the angels, it is enough to kill you. However, if you play first you can get the angels down when you are on 12 life still, which is enough to survive on and hence kill him. 3-3.

Any feedback on next format or my match with iLL_Dawg?

Tom

#  502.9.Ruling.1 - As per Rule 502.9b, you are not required to assign damage to the defending player and you are not required to divide the damage among the blockers in any particular way, but if you do assign it so that all the blockers receive lethal damage, you have the option to assign to the defending player.
Example: If a Force of Nature (8/8 Trample) is blocked by three 2/2 creatures, you could (a) assign all 8 damage to one blocker, (b) 4 to each of two blockers, (c) 3 to one 3 to another and 2 to the third, (d) 3 to one, 2 to each other, and 1 to the defending player, (e) 2 to each blocker and 2 to the defending player, and so on. [D'Angelo 2001/08/15]

He has to deal lethal damage to all blockers before dealing damage to me with trample.  A 9/9 trample can't kill 3 4/4 angels.

[wonkey_donkey]

#  502.9.Ruling.1 - As per Rule 502.9b, you are not required to assign damage to the defending player and you are not required to divide the damage among the blockers in any particular way, but if you do assign it so that all the blockers receive lethal damage, you have the option to assign to the defending player.
Example: If a Force of Nature (8/8 Trample) is blocked by three 2/2 creatures, you could (a) assign all 8 damage to one blocker, (b) 4 to each of two blockers, (c) 3 to one 3 to another and 2 to the third, (d) 3 to one, 2 to each other, and 1 to the defending player, (e) 2 to each blocker and 2 to the defending player, and so on. [D'Angelo 2001/08/15]

He has to deal lethal damage to all blockers before dealing damage to me with trample.  A 9/9 trample can't kill 3 4/4 angels.

Fair enough. I was going on an older ruling, I didn't realise it had changed from then.

[Lockdown]

So the question is, who wins?  Frogboy4L? or me?

[LotusHead]

I still don't think that IllDawg can beat my deck with his.

He needs five mana to attack with phage.
I need only four to drop my treefolk, say UUGG.  If I do, then he can't attack for the win.
If I go first, I win.

As for new 3CB rules, how about Alpha, Beta, Unlimited only 3CB?
Just a thought.

[Lockdown]

@LotusHead
wonkey_donkey was correct earlier.  You only get 1 point against Ill_dawg
Basically your matchup goes like this:
//When he goes first
His turn 1: 1 Mana
Your turn 1: 1 Mana
His turn 2: 2 Mana
Your turn 2: 2 Mana
His turn 3: 3 Mana - Shapeshifter - 0 Mana
Your turn 3: 3 Mana
His turn 4: 1 Mana
Your turn 4: 4 Mana, Treefolk (tapped, since you tapped the land for mana)
His turn 5: 2 Mana - Discard Phage - Attack and you can't block, you lose

//When you go first
Your turn 1: 1 Mana
His turn 1: 1 Mana
Your turn 2: 2 Mana
His turn 2: 2 Mana
Your turn 3: 3 Mana
His turn 3: 3 Mana //Here's where things get fuzzy

He can play the shifter, which gets countered.  You then get your treefolk 4 turns later (Turn 7), and get him down to 5(after your turn 10) before he plays Phage, which can block and both creatures will die.

The above means that no matter what, he can at least settle for a draw that game.  

Or, if he chooses to wait it out, you cast treefolk on your next turn, he casts Shapeshifter with 1 mana left but the point is he'll always have enough to have a Phage down before you can do lethal damage.
//////////
However, I like your idea of having 3CB for specific sets/blocks only.  My only worry would be the much more limited cardpool.  But, might as well try it.

[virtual]

Updated the table.  The winner changed.  Congrats lockdown.  Hopefully we'll get the next one rolling soon, just figuring out some logistics.

-Virtual

[LotusHead]

Thanks for the clarification on my deck's defeat by the PhageShifter deck.  I guess I should have read the cards before I posted.

AUB 3CB?  My idea for a format and I miss it! dag nabbit!