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Author Topic: Ur Landstill - I don't know what to cut!  (Read 2093 times)
OPColby
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« on: April 11, 2004, 10:25:42 pm »

Too much useful stuff.  Honestly, everything in here is useful for practically everything, so I don't know what is the most useless in most scenarios.

I've experimented with making the deck Urw, for StP, in which, I would take out the lightning bolts most likely.  However, mana problems arise to say the least.  Here's the decklist, please help me find the most useless things in here:

28 Mana Production
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Volcanic Island
4 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Petrified Field
1 Mountain
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal

9 Cores
4 Standstill
3 Teferi's Response
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall

16 Counterspells
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Mana Leak
4 Counterspell

7 Stoppers
4 Nevinyrral's Disk
3 Maze of Ith

8 Burn
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fire/Ice

15 Card Sideboard
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Misdirection
3 Dream Tides
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

There's 66 cards total.  I need to cut 6 of them.  Counterspells are wonderful, and I would hate to cut them for the much more inferior mana leak.  Maze of Ith is absolutely a godsend when playing nearly ANYTHING, including game 1 of the mirror.  I feel that the Mazes should be sideboarded out, not sideboarded in.  The Lightning Bolts/Fire-Ice, I think, is a little bit too much burn, and I'm thinking about trimming 2 of the Fire/Ice's off, or 1 LB and 1 F/I.  I am very hesitant and rather stubborn about using the Teferi's Responses for sideboard.  Every deck plays wastelands and strip mines.  Although, I will consider dropping the number to 2, or perhaps even 1.  Any imput will be highly appreciated, and please leave a reason why I should cut something in the deck.
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Love,
Colby.
BreathWeapon
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2004, 10:32:58 pm »

You have way too many cards in the 2cc spot, your asking to get PWNed by Chalice out of Workshop. The stock value of Misdirection is rising, Slavery, Hulk, Twister all use Force of Will and its hard to find a Control deck with out Ancestrals or Twsits to steal. Stifle is probably better than Teferi's Response, its Land Destruction and Combo Hate. Ofcourse, if you don't see the Colombus metagame then do what works for you.
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Moxlotus
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2004, 10:33:35 pm »

I would get rid of the Counterspells, Mana Leaks, and Mazes. I would move the mazes to the board and add a few stifles and Mis'D.  You honestly don't need as much counterpower as you have because Disk, bolts, and F/I will clear the way.

 Why do you want to stunt your mana development early with a Maze when you need to get either Drain online for disk or a Standstill?  I think Maze is best for the SB against Tog and Mask.

I would keep all 8 burn spells.  If you cut any do it for Chain of Vapor.  The burn spells allow you to kill your opponent through direct damage, something that is often forgot about and very often not prepared for.
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OPColby
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2004, 11:11:52 pm »

Okay, those things taken into consideration, here's the new decklist:

I also added in 4 impulses for Standstill drawing.  I took out the Mountain and a Polluted Delta? and added in a Mox Sapphire and Mox Ruby.

28 Mana Production
4 Mishra's Factories
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Volcanic Island
4 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Petrified Field
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Flooded Strand

9 Cores
4 Standstill
3 Teferi's Response
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall

4 Utility
4 Impulse

14 Counterspellishs
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Misdirection
3 Stifle

4 Stoppers
4 Nevinyrral's Disk

8 Removal/Finisher
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fire/Ice

15 Card Sideboard:
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Maze of Ith
3 Dream Tides
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Also, ye who made the comment about the Chalice:  I expected my counterspells to get rid of it, (as it would cost a whopping four mana to get into play, and would most likely tap out my opponent in the early game, and if in the late game, I would have multiple counterspells/FoW's to deal with the threat,) but now that I don't have many hard counters, what am I supposed to do about a chalice?

I have 67 cards now in the deck.  *sighs*  I need to cut some stuff.  Mana production?
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Love,
Colby.
wuaffiliate
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2004, 11:16:57 pm »

-3 Teferi's Response
-4 Impulse

dont think just do it
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OPColby
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2004, 11:23:25 pm »

26 Mana Production
4 Mishra's Factories
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Volcanic Island
4 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Petrified Field
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
1 Flooded Strand

8 Cores
4 Standstill
2 Teferi's Response
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall

18 Counterspellishs
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Counterspell
3 Misdirection
3 Stifle

4 Stoppers
4 Nevinyrral's Disk

4 Removal/Finisher
4 Lightning Bolt

15 Card Sideboard:
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Maze of Ith
3 Dream Tides
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

After some thinking, I don't need the impulses that badly as I have enough card-drawers to suffice.  I also took out the mox sapphire and ruby.  They don't work well with a disk, and they're worthless to get in the late game.

I've taken out the fire/ices because although they have tremendous value in taking out weenies and late-game finishers, I would rather establish control with counterspells.

Right now, I have 60 cards in my deck.  I'm considering sideboarding one misdirection and putting in one maindeck maze of ith.  I'll playtest, then I'll see what's up.
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Love,
Colby.
The Grim Reaper
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2004, 12:36:44 am »

Damnit! Don't remove Mox Sapphire. The reason it's there is for that god-like first turn standstill. Lotus petal is also included for the same reason! Just do what Wuaffiliate said. You don't need impulse and teferri's isn't that good.
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Kowal
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2004, 01:01:40 am »

Moxen win games.
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JACO
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2004, 01:42:45 am »

Quote from: OPColby
26 Mana Production
4 Mishra's Factories
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Volcanic Island
4 Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Petrified Field
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
1 Flooded Strand

8 Cores
4 Standstill
2 Teferi's Response
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall

18 Counterspellishs
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Counterspell
3 Misdirection
3 Stifle

4 Stoppers
4 Nevinyrral's Disk

4 Removal/Finisher
4 Lightning Bolt

15 Card Sideboard:
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Maze of Ith
3 Dream Tides
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

After some thinking, I don't need the impulses that badly as I have enough card-drawers to suffice.  I also took out the mox sapphire and ruby.  They don't work well with a disk, and they're worthless to get in the late game.

I've taken out the fire/ices because although they have tremendous value in taking out weenies and late-game finishers, I would rather establish control with counterspells.

Right now, I have 60 cards in my deck.  I'm considering sideboarding one misdirection and putting in one maindeck maze of ith.  I'll playtest, then I'll see what's up.


Honestly, I can't tell if this thread is a joke or not. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but there are so many poor choices here it's not funny. Where to begin...
1. Fire/Ice is infinitely superior to Lightning Bolt in terms of removal and utility (acts as a cantrip or a pitch to Force of Will/Misdirection, if you don't have a creature you need to remove). If you're not going to play both, go with Fire/Ice instead.
2. Petrified Field is garbage in this deck. This deck is about tempo, and while field is quite the utility land, it is a huge waste of tempo. Turn this into a Mox Sapphire, or if you don't own one, a Dust Bowl, or another fetchland.
3. You don't need 18 counterspells of any form in this deck if you're playing it correctly. Counter the important stuff with Force of Will, Mana Drain, and a couple of Misdirections, and then blow up the world with any one of your FOUR Nevinyrral's Disks. CUT all 4 COUNTERSPELLS; you don't need them.
4. Impulse and Brainstorm suck in this deck. Don't waste the time, as many of us already have done the playtesting for you.
5. You don't need 3 Stifles and 2 Teferi's Responses main deck. In this deck, Response is much better in the role of protection (an Ancestral Recall in almost every instance), but Stifle provides greater utility. Make a decision based on how you play the deck, and then go that way.

Shock Wave and numerous others (wu, Leviat, Gabethebabe) have done much testing, so see their builds and go from their. Maze of Ith is strictly sideboard material; trust me.
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Machinus
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2004, 03:46:22 am »

Is response even viable maindeck? I really like running it but I have not tested agasint the newest Slavery. I am hearing that Stifle needs to be four of and that no one likes response, but your opponent is going to go after your lands no matter what, I don't see how you couldn't cast this. If fetchlands were rampant I would just put in all stifles and forget about it, but I don't see that, and resolving response appears probable these days. What have I missed?
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OPColby
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2004, 07:11:09 am »

Okay, I don't know what I was thinking...was I drunk or something?

Alright, here's the decklist:

27 Mana Sources
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Island
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus

7 House
4 Standstill
1 Teferi's Response (playing 1 is very viable)
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall

14 Counters
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Misdirection
3 Stifle

4 Clear-Alls
4 Nevinyrral's Disk

8 Burn
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fire/Ice

15 Card Sideboard
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Maze of Ith
3 Dream Tides
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Alright guys, what is there yet needed to change?  Personally, I love this build, and the thing that I actually needed to think about, (I must have been really tired last night to cut a freaking mox for a lotus petal, seriously,) was taking out the one maze of ith for a misdirection.  The Maze of Ith is wonderful MD.  It has amazing synergy with the disk.  Let me know what you think, and whoever called this deck a joke - thank you for your wonderful research and helps.  I know you didn't mean to be offensive, and obviously this is my first time building a landstill deck, so thank you very much.
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Love,
Colby.
TheRock
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2004, 09:44:06 am »

Response is not that good because it is a half-ass spell that works on your opponent's timetable.  In short, it isn't consistent and you need to play when your opponent gives you the chance.  I wouldn't run it.

Instead of it, I would run a Mox Ruby.  Kowal said it all in three words.  The speed it provides is such a great help and you will love it.

Finally, I don't like those Dream Tides in your sideboard.  Dream Tides is a great card but it's slow.  Look at running Chalice of the Void, Chain of Vapor, or even Arcane Laboratory (such sick tech) instead.

Here is a tournament report done by MarkPharoah with him running 4 Chains sideboard at GameMaster:

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15251

Good luck!
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2004, 01:26:18 pm »

Closed. Too many Landstill topics.[/color]
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