Stax tech?

[Alfred]

I don't know if this has been suggested yet, but could damping matrix be a good SB or maindeck option for a non-welder stax build? Damping matrix has been proven to be a great hate card in the current metagame, as it shuts down mindslaver, goblin welder and psychatog singlehandedly, while leaving your moxen, smokestack and tanglewire untouched. The only caveat against the matrix would be that it would be competing against other workshoppable lock components.

[Tempe]

I think most Stax builds run Welder themselves, so it would be bastardizing your own deck to hate others. I guess it might be a good sideboard card when sideboarding out your own welders, but it feels like the old Blood Moon Keeper. You are putting in a hate card that hates your own deck, then trying to avoid the consequences.

--Tempe

[Bram]

He did say non-welder Stax, however, so I guess he had already thought of that. My guess would be he was referring to older Stax versions like the MUD builds Tindemans used to run. Matrix could make an interesting addition to that build in the proper metagame, but you'd still be running an inferior deck in my opinion.

[Alfred]

I don't think that the blood moon keeper is a great analogy, as blood moon shuts down keeper's entire manabase, wheras matrix would shut down 4 cards (which probably wouldn't be in the deck anyway). I haven't been to any tournaments recently, but my memory recalls that there were stax decks that did not use goblin welder, chose to go a mono-blue route, and had a lot of success. I guess the question is, are stax decks that choose not to include goblin welder viable anymore? If this is the case, then damping matrix would be a good addition to this type of deck.

[Flurp™]

You could build stax (or mud) without welder, but you will get owned by all decks running welder (and there are lots of them) and lose some power vs control.

[Bram]

I offer something Smmenen asked me when we were briefly discussing MUD / wMUD builds something like a year ago when he was in Europe. He posed the simple question: 'Why on earth would you NOT run welder?' I guess that's still valid. And unless you have some plan that excludes red from your build alltogether for some massive effect, I don't see why you wouldn't, really.

As long as we're on the subject of hugely imperfect analogies, it's something akin to saying you're not going to run FoW in a control strategy just because you think you can make the deck work without them. What I'm saying it, unless you're going for mono-green Drop Of Honey / City or Solitude control, it's likely a bad choice. And even if you ARE going for that route, you probably shouldn't, if you plan on winning.

[Alfred]

@ Flurp™

1. Doesn't damping matrix hate AGAINST goblin welder?
2. It depends which control deck you are talking about. Two of the most dominant control decks out right now are hosed by damping matrix: Tog and control slavery (Okay, tog is considered control-combo). This is a reason that the matrix is seeing play in the maindecks of quite a few decks i.e. EBA.

@ Matt

Point taken. I realize there is some anti-synergy between matrix and goblin welder. But perhaps there is still a case to be made for damping matrix in the sideboard. Testing would have to be made to see whether or not matrix could improve matchups like the ones I have previously mentioned.

Also, in regards to your analogy, I would hardly say that goblin welder is to stax as FOW is to control. For example, if the field was all tog and slavery (Why you would be playing stax in this metagame is beyond me), which card would be better: Goblin welder or damping matrix?  I would say damping matrix. This would facilitate it's usefulness in the sideboard, and probably would be sideboarded in in these matchups. When I sideboarded damping matrix in for the slavery matchup, I probably wouldn't even take out the welder, as both are useful.

As for tog, an early damping matrix would be very effective at stopping the tog player's gameplan, which is drop a tog early and win before your lock becomes deadly. There aren't many workshop decks around that have abused the fact that they can drop a first turn damping matrix, and stax and TNT would be the only decks that would be willing to do that.

[The Hamburgler]

I haven't done exclusive testing but wouldn't Goblin Welder be quite a tool in the main deck instead of the suggested sideboard. You could Welder out a creature with skullclamp equipped on it, a creature with allot of modular on it and can be transformed to a flying Ornithopter. Obviously the slaver match up would be wretched for the deck, which is a gaping hole in the decks plans and would have to be hated strongly in the sideboard. Now as fast as the deck may be, the format is so insanely fast currently that the deck may not be as effective as hoped, speed wise. I imagine it would be built for an environment filled with control in general, aggros best match. But alike "angry dragon" it can switch to combo mode to beat aggro itself. The deck is definently a metagame deck, but I see potential due to a lack of faster combo, the only ones left are Dragon and Food Chain Goblins, and FCG should be out-ratable. Just my thoughts.
- The Hamburgler

[Alfred]

I haven't done exclusive testing but wouldn't Goblin Welder be quite a tool in the main deck instead of the suggested sideboard. You could Welder out a creature with skullclamp equipped on it, a creature with allot of modular on it and can be transformed to a flying Ornithopter. Obviously the slaver match up would be wretched for the deck, which is a gaping hole in the decks plans and would have to be hated strongly in the sideboard. Now as fast as the deck may be, the format is so insanely fast currently that the deck may not be as effective as hoped, speed wise. I imagine it would be built for an environment filled with control in general, aggros best match. But alike "angry dragon" it can switch to combo mode to beat aggro itself. The deck is definently a metagame deck, but I see potential due to a lack of faster combo, the only ones left are Dragon and Food Chain Goblins, and FCG should be out-ratable. Just my thoughts.
- The Hamburgler

I think you misunderstood the topic of this thread. Goblin welder is already in most stax's maindecks. The debate is whether or not to include Damping matrix in the deck. Skullclamp and ornithopter also have no place in any well-built stax deck, making me assume that you think that stax is some sort of ravager/affinity deck, which it is not. Perhaps the next time you post, you should read up more on the deck that you are commenting about, not to mention fully reading the thread you are posting in.