Null Rod Vs. Damping Matrix

[BouncingBeeble]

Both of these cards are used as silver bullets in a variety of decks to shut down opposing strategies. Although they perform similar functions, the matrix gives versatility at the cost of null rod's mana denial. This can be useful when playing a deck with power (like keeper or GAT), but is the mana denial ability of the rod enough to give up power in favor of running null rod? Which, in general is the better choice? When is one a better choice then the other?

[Rico Suave]

If it's 2-3 Moxen you can get away with running Null Rod if the mana denial benefits your deck.  GAT would SB it because it's a hoser, and not part of the deck's main strategy.  U/G Madness maindecks it because it has 5 strips.

Generally, the decks that can support a full amount of Moxen would rather abuse the tempo advantages of having Moxen than try to benefit from the mana screw Null Rod may offer.  Keeper/Stax are both good examples of this, and both are heavy mana denial decks.

[firebird365]

When you think about it, they really don't do the same thing; Null Rod (as has been stated) is specifically used for mana denial, while Damping Matrix is general disruption. It's like comparing Wasteland and Naturalize, I suppose. Both slow down the opponent, but in different ways. But back to the topic: in my opinion, it really depends on what you're going for. For example, EBA utilizes Damping Matrix in a very effective way; it shuts down most competetive decks (Slaver, 'Tog, Welder) and lets EBA get its threats through. Fish uses Null Rod to even out the tempo granted by Moxes and its small card-drawing threats to bring the tempo in their favor, establishing an advantage in the early game that decks often can't catch up to.

Personally, I like Damping Matrix more because of its increased versitility, but mana denial is really important at this stage because it negates the advantage that decks such as 'Tog and Slaver have so that decks can get their stuff in before they die.

[Smash]

Post stop different things (and both stop some of the same things).

My take on it, is overall in a deck that uses a full set of jewels, null rod hurts too much to use. However in a budgetish/low mox deck, either can work - each stopping different stuff. Null rod deneys manna better, while stopping a lot of stuff matrix already stops (scepter/slaver/scroll). On the other hand, matrix stops welder/tog stuff better.

I don't there there is one universal winner; both are effecient ways to deal with certain threats. A powered deck can poop out a matrix turn 2, and an unpowered deck can poop out a rod turn 2. Both will have an effect on the game in many cases.

[Soupboy]

While they do two different things, they are similar enough to compare.  Although I have been known to pack both in the same deck.  If you expect a field of Tendrils variants, Null Rods.  Against Madness, Slaver, TOG, et al, Damping Matrix is far superior.  Of course, it also depends on what you're running.  If you need your Grimmies to shoot fire, then better stick with the Null Rod.  

The Soup

[Gaea]

They're similar but their use are very different, i think rod is an aggro card, to stop both mana and activated abilities and can be used in decks based on denial or simply is wonderful in aggro decks to gain some time advantage, personally i woul play matrix just in control decks such as keeper or eba, keeper for example can't afford null rod, it needs mana and can't shut down its moxes

[jCoKn]

I get the feeling that most of you think Null Rod is strictly mana denial? It's just as good if not better than Matrix in many games: notably Slaver, which is probably the #1 deck in the format right now. It still shuts down Slaver, Trike, Pentavus, and his moxen as well. Of course, if you're playing with slaver, you might want to counter those, but in the situation where there's not, the slaver player's in more a problem. Granted, Matrix does the same, but doesn't provide the mana denial that Rod does.

I also guess that I'm more of a aggro player and therefore I don't play full Moxen... but I still think that if you can play it, play it. I also see Matrix as a drawback to yourself... whether you're running Mongrels, Ascetics, Welders, Shades, or a slew of other creatures with kickass abilities, Matrix could hurt you as well. Plus, the 2-mana cost as opposed to 3 is always cool .

[Soupboy]

It's just as good if not better than Matrix in many games: notably Slaver, which is probably the #1 deck in the format right now. .

I'm guessing you've never had a Null Rod Welded away?  I agree with most of what you said, but against Staks/MUD/Slaver, I think I prefer shutting off Welder to shutting down mana sources.  

The Soup

[DavidHernandez]

They're both great.  I use 2 of each in a Dryad Hate build that I call She-Hulk.  I run 3 Moxes and a Lotus with them, and don't have problems.  The Rods hose one set of cards, and the Matrix hoses another set.

Together they can shut down enough of the opponents to make running them worthwhile, especially since I run 8 counters and 3 MisD's.

Dave.

[Smmenen]

Only Null Rod hoses Tendrils Combo though.

Steve

[DavidHernandez]

Only Null Rod hoses Tendrils Combo though.

Steve

Good point.  This is why I like running both.

Dave.

[jazzykat]

This actually fascinates me. The abilities have all been stated earlier in the thread. What I see here are 2 deployments that may or may not be mutually exclusive to each other.

I see rod as a mana denial weapon foremost. The fact that it happens to stop slavers, random cursed scroll,and tricky artifact creatures is gravy. I have been playing control slaver and without moxen, I am not able to cast it too often.

Damping matrix is a tactical bomb. Kind of a middle finger raised to a whole strategy. It shuts down 2 of the best creatures in the format TOG, and welder. It stops all the artifact creature, and slaver stuff.

I believe that only 5 proxy decks should run rod, as they are powerful in conjunction with strip mine and protect against slaver.

Damping matrix is more of a powered deck's tool to combat other powered decks. IE Keeper and EBA using it to screw over a lot of good, and some budget (mongrel) decks.

So as to what to use, you must first look at your deck then ask yourself what your objective is. If null rod or damping matrix do not hurt your deck too much and they fulfill an important objective then you have a candidate for playtesting.

[DavidHernandez]

Excellent points.  The cool thing about these cards is that you have the advantage of knowing when then are going to hit the table.  In another thread I mentioned that this is similar to the days when we used to drop Armageddon.  It's ok to blow your own permanents when you know it's coming.  You play around it, and your opponents play into it.

Dave

[BouncingBeeble]

Thanks everyone for the insight into this topic. I was curious as how to employ these cards as they hose a variety of strategies, and while they are similar in concept, they differ when building a deck. Would it be possible for me to see a decklist of Drayd Hate with both the rods and the matrixes?

[Soupboy]

Not really sure what "Dryad Hate" consists of, but here's a link to my Mint Skittles (EBA, no black) which ran both:
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15831

The Soup

[Gibbon_Take]

It's just as good if not better than Matrix in many games: notably Slaver, which is probably the #1 deck in the format right now. .

I'm guessing you've never had a Null Rod Welded away?  I agree with most of what you said, but against Staks/MUD/Slaver, I think I prefer shutting off Welder to shutting down mana sources.  

The Soup

Yes but then they go with the 7-man plan and use all that mana to cast those 7cc beats.  If your deck can run it, mainly budget decks, run rod.

[DavidHernandez]

Here's my She-Hulk build (you requested a "Dryad Hate" list):

4 Quirion Dryad

4 Brainstorm
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
3 Misdirection
3 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Cunning Wish
2 Stifle (or Duress, for a total of 3 [with the one in Mind Twist’s place])
1 Gush
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Ancestral Recall

2 Damping Matrix

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mind Twist (or Duress for a total of 3 [with the two in Stifle’s place])
1 Skeletal Scrying

1 Pernicious Deed

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet

4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island

Sideboard:
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Berserk
1 Magical Hack
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Coffin Purge
1 Stifle
1 Artifact Mutation
1 Fire/Ice
1 Naturalize
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Rack and Ruin
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Null Rod

Against decks like Slaver, I board in the 2 Null Rods and leave the Damping Matrix in the main as well.

--Dave.

[Username?]

i may not have been on this site too long, but i know a few things about type 1.  
Fact: Null rod is best used when you are playing a mono colored aggro deck, why because it stops the control player from using their extremely broken moxes
Fact: Damping matrix is best used by a control player.  Why? because it won't keep you from using your extremely broken moxes, and you can stop an aggro player, from using their creature abillities

[DavidHernandez]

@Username?:  

You're incorrect about the use of Null Rod and Damping Matrix.  These cards are "best used" when you as a player can make your deck take advantage of them. Period.

To say that Null Rod is only good in a mono-colored build means that it should be removed from G/R Mad Dragon, U/r Fish, and W/r White Lightning.

Null Rod and Damping Matrix are good for FAR more cards than Moxes.  Both shut down Isochron Scepters along with every other activated artifact ability (except Mana Sources in the case of Damping Matrix).

If you have more of a point to make, please do so, but don't suggest that your post detailed "Facts", because clearly that is not true.

--Dave.