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Author Topic: [Deck] 5 Color Ho Chi Minh Fish  (Read 1267 times)
Lurker101
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« on: May 26, 2009, 02:53:11 pm »

I'm trying to make a 5 color fish list utilizing the best utility creatures Vintage has to offer. This deck is hugely aggro based and designed to take on everything. Right now I must admit that the mana base is a bit shaky and so far the list is untested, but I think it's a promising start. It's called Ho Chi Minh fish because the Vietnamese army under Ho Chi Minh is considered to be one of the greatest armies ever and I'm going for that approach.
//Lands: 16
1 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
2 City of Brass
4 Flooded Strand

//Creatures: 20
1 Meddling Mage
1 Rootwater Thief
1 Goblin Welder
4 Dark Confidant
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Trinket Mage (fetches Pithing Needles, Aether Vials, and Phyrexian Dreadnought)
1 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Voidmage Prodigy (There's 15 Wizards maindeck so this should work pretty well)
2 Gorilla Shaman

//Other Spells
4 Worldly Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Pithing Needle
4 Force of Will
1 Time Walk
3 Stifle (mainly for dreadnought, but helps against Tendrils and Ichorid)
3 Aether Vial

//Sideboard:
1 Rootwater Thief (more hate against Tendrils, Inkwell, DSC, Time Vault, etc.)
2 Tormod's Crypt (Ichorid)
3 Tarmogoyf   (Fish mirror match or against decks packing Massacre)
4 Yixlid Jailer  (Ichorid)
1 Crop Rotation
4 Forbidden Orchard (Oath)

There's numerous ways to hate out Vault/ Key with Meddling Mage, Rootwater Thief, Mox Monkey, Goblin Welder, Qasali Pridemage, and Aven Mindcensor in addition to that extra stifles can buy you time. Pridemage, Meddling Mage, and Rootwater Thief are also good against Oath. Worldly Tutor helps you find any creature you may need at the time (which is especially useful with the single copies of Meddling Mage, Rootwater Thief, Dreadnought, and Welder).

Right now the deck's weaknesses are the manabase and the Ichorid matchup but there's plenty to board in against Ichorid.

Why no null rod?
This deck runs almost full moxen and Aether Vial so I picked Pithing Needle which also has the benefit of hitting other cards like Bazaar without disrupting your own game plan.

What is the deck lacking?
Speed, I would definitely like to make this faster. It's also costly for a fish deck so maybe utilizing cards like Chrome Mox and lotus petal over the 4 SoloMox that are in there might work if you would like to try it.

What are other people's opinions?
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Guli
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« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2009, 04:57:04 pm »

Seperate the creatures that you really need with the creatures that will be tutored for.

This way you create a toolbox for your tutors.

By adding 4x of the creatures that you really need you are lowering the pressure on your tutors. This also means less loss of tempo and time.

Creatures that should be included 4x right now are:

Consistency

4x Dark Confidant
4x Aven Mindcensor
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Qasali Pridemage (especially if you don't use Null Rod)


Toolbox (silver bullets)

1x Yixlid Jailer (dredge)
1x Ethersworn Canonist (heavy combo)
1x Vexing Shusher (heavy control)
1x Gaddock TeeG (serves well as a second/third lock piece)
1x Kataki, War's Wage (Shop decks, it is worth the slot even with vials and acceleration)
I think it is a mistake to use all colors. Their are no 'best creatures', the creature base is always chosen in function of the decks goals. Having a strong mana base is relevant. Vials are always 4x included when they are used.

Also try not to get too enthusiastic and keep focus. You don't want to have TOO many 1x in the deck, this would mean that you have a lot of weak match up. When you tutor you want to get that 1 card that will make the difference (repeating: make it worth the loss of time).

I would like to share something about these tutors in fish, a little observation I made when testing this strategy of fish. I often just got more tarms with tutors. Having miltiple tarms is pretty strong. I dropped the matter though and went back to my Null Rod versions. I have to say though, it was pretty nice to explore. Maybe tutors/tarms/confidants is all you need. It is basic magic really, if you are playing a deck that has problems with big creatures, and mostly this is aggro, then you get in tarms. If you are playing control you get confidants. But adding a couple of nice silver bullets can't hurt to get out of tight spots.

I played with 11 tutors by the way.

4x Eladamri's Call
4x Worldly Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Survival of the fittest

I know I am suggesting drastic changes but I think the deck you are playing is way too chaotic. I won't give you a list though, just general idea's so you might try them out.

Good luck!
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TopSecret
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« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2009, 07:20:54 pm »

I think you should play more fetches and less duals.

That way, you won't draw a hand with two wrong color duals as often.
Also, if that's still not good enough, you could add more City of Brass,
and potentially Ancient Ziggurat.

Don't forget the non-blue duals and fetches.
Other than Voidmage, you don't have anything that costs double blue,
so being able to get a non-blue dual like Plateau could be quite strong,
since you can then fetch an Underground Sea or Tropical Island to have access to four colors from only two lands.
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Ball and Chain
John Jones
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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2009, 01:09:53 am »

I don't think you need Aven mindcensor. I think rootwater theif is the better option because it hurts tezz more. Just swining and removing their vault is all you need.
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