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Author Topic: [Results] - 02-05-2004 - Turin (Italy) - 1st TPS-UB.dec  (Read 3116 times)
MaxxMatt
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« on: May 05, 2004, 10:42:35 am »

Hi all,

Here are the astonishing results of our last Top8 in the city of Turin last 02-05-2004.

We had 61 Players.


Top8.

1) TPS-UB
2) WelderMUD
3) TPS
4) Control-Madness UGr
5) RectalAgony
6) TPS
7) TriNiT
8) RG-Beatz


These are the available lists
The missing ones will be edited as soon as possible:

1)TPS-UG - David aka "InJ" Beduzzi

MAIN DECK
4 Duress
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Future Sight
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Dark Ritual
1 Windfall
1 Time Spiral
1 Timetwister
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Mind's Desire
1 Rebuild
1 Cunning Wish
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 Frantic Search
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Underground River
4 Underground Sea
1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta

SIDEBOARD
1 Brain Freeze
1 Echoing Truth
1 Misdirection
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Coffin Purge
1 Rebuild
1 Ebony Charm
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Stifle
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Fact or Fiction

2) Welder-MUD - Alessandro aka "pArTiZan" Marotta

-Missing-


3) TPS - Luca aka "Trix" Simone

MAIN DECK
1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Duress
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Dark Ritual
1 Windfall
1 Cunning Wish
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Mind's Desire
1 Rebuild
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 Tinker
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Memory Jar
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Underground Sea
2 Polluted Delta

SIDEBOARD
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Hydroblast
1 Misdirection
1 Orim's Chant
1 Brain Freeze
3 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Meditate
1 Rushing River
1 Echoing Truth
1 Stifle


4) Control-Madness UGr - "Koklovitz"

MAIN DECK
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Basking Rootwalla
3 Roar of the Wurm
3 Careful Study
1 Tinker
1 Darksteel Collossus
4 Force of Will
4 Circular Logic
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Intuition
1 Anger
1 Wonder
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

SIDEBOARD
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Naturalize
3 Artifact Mutation
2 Rack and Ruin
1 Gaea's Blessing
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pyrostatic Pillar


5) Pietro aka "Elric" Cavalletti - RectalAgony

MAIN DECK
2 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Future Sight
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Dark Ritual
4 Accademy Rector
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Rebuild
1 Burning Wish
1 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 Orim's Chant
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Frantic Search
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Lotus Petal
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Gemstone Mine
3 Underground Sea
2 Scrubland
4 Polluted Delta

SIDEBOARD
1 Balance
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Red Eemental Blast
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
1 Coffin Purge
1 Timetwister
1 Sphere of Law
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Meltdown
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Renounce
1 Misdirection


6) Raiola - TPS

1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Duress
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Dark Ritual
1 Windfall
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Mind's Desire
1 Rebuild
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 Tinker
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Memory Jar
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire

SIDEBOARD
1 Rebuild
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
1 Meltdown
2 Misdirection
1 Hydroblast
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Sphere of Law
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Rack and Ruin


7) Claudio aka "Gaea" Ferloni - TriNiT

MAIN DECK
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mana Crypt
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
4 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Workshop
2 Sylvan Library
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Trinisphere
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Anger
4 Goblin Welder
1 Sundering Titan
2 Triskelion
3 Su-Chi
4 Juggernaut
1 Platinum Angel
1 Karn Silver Golem
3 Solemn Simulacrum

SIDEBOARD
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Null Rod
2 Naturalize
2 Ground Seal
3 Blood Moon
1 Rack and Ruin
3 Red Elemental Blast

8) RG-Beatz - ???

- list missing but 4 Naturalize Maindeck -

9th placed Keeper ( out of Top8 for low rating )
10th placed Stacker-MonoBrown ( out of Top8 for low rating )
11th...


I will edit the breakdown as soon as I can catch it.

The "flood" of combo deck in this top8 can be summoned saying 3 things:

1) Really Good Combo Players
2) 4 Duress+4FoW AND Maindeck Artifact Removals
3) Artifact.dec can't always deal with broken starts and EoT artifact hate bouncers.



I would underline something about the EXTREMELY good build that placed first.

1) Some Basic Lands and Fethlands against Denial
2) Good Sideboard Choices agaisnt Control.dec , DARgon.dec and Artifact.dec
3) 2 colors for preventing color possible color screw

David Beduzzi played this deck 3 times during the last 3 weeks placing First, Fourth and missing the top8 in the first toruney only for rating.
The consistency of the deck is really improved by th echange of the mana base and the "colors" lost have been perfectly substituted by other Draw7s and Business Spells.
I think that it could be considered an "upgraded" version of the old Italian and German TPS.dec for this specific period.


MaxxMatt
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Rico Suave
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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2004, 10:57:54 am »

WTF is up with only 3 Therapies and instead using Orim's Chant in a Rector deck?

I believe the 4th place deck would've won it all if it made up it's mind as to whether it wanted to be aggro or aggro-control.
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Eastman
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2004, 09:28:42 am »

I like that tps list quite a bit, I'll be testing it this week.

Anyone who played/helped build this deck have an explanation of why tinker/jar or even tinker/jar/darksteel collosus isn't used?
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MaxxMatt
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2004, 01:22:52 pm »

@Eastman.

I referred about your asks directly with the creator of the deck and he said to me that in a previous tourney, one of his friends with his build did another top8 with those single differences in the maindeck:

-1 Future Sight
+1 Memory Jar
+1 Tinker

His friend played a deck with ( shitty number ) 61 cards.

David Beduzzi, the creator, told me that he sacrified the Tinker/Jar cards for a Wish ( that can be transformed in FoF or Skeletal if needed or in "answers to some hate" ) and a F.S. because of consistency and because the field is really large and maybe some aggro, aggro/control would have prevented him from "going off" safely with Necro and Bargain, while a F.S. in play should have done the necessary break to win the game without losing precious life points.

Time Spiral is one of his "pet" cards and without the Red and Wheel of Fortune,  it should be considered the better choices among the BlueDraw7s for this deck.

His configuration has 3 maindeck removals ( 1 chain, 1 rebuild and 1 Wish ) for the hate and a bit more lands for stabilizing the mana base against MW.dec and it funcioned really well as you see.

Glad to see that you are interested in it. Smile



@Rico.

Maybe you are too harsch with the entire Top8.
This kind of madness ( Control-Madness as we usually reffered to it), do really well against Control and agaisnt Combo, expecially post side. It is an UG-Madness similar to the JP's one with more tricks and counters and less madness-tools. It lose only in redundancy, gaining a lot in quality. And it isn't a new archetipe, it is used to do top8 with different players and a little bit different configurations, but with the same skeleton.

Compared to the common aggro RG version it has a less stable mana base of course, but has the great potential to be able to handle A LOT of opponent's removals thanks to his counters. He lose only Arrogant Wurm and gain more control. All the other critters are in and it is able of really painful fast start too of course.
What it lost is Pure Speed.
What it gained is a really good way to deal with opponents game breaking spells ( Y.Will, Removals, Lock Components, Balance, Perniciuous and so on ) without losing too much of his real aggro nature.
Post side it has a really good matchup even agaisnt storm.dec because of the good mix of pillars, counters and  cotv.
It has a lot of tools against MW.dec ( spot removals ) that can let him easily win against them, if coupled with a lot of counters.

I think that it is definitively a strong different approach compared to the aggro's one, but for his good results, it should be equally respected and sometime feared.

IMHO, the other TPS.decs are really strong because they can Duress-FoW-UseRemovals the first or second  turn opponent's treats and then try to go off. It isn't difficult to have more consistent winning results with this configuration because of the 8-10 protection slots compared to the 4-5 slots used by the Smmemmen 's Draw7 version. Duress take out a treat and it is really good against all the decks that I usually see in our Top8.


Because of your great experience with RectorTrix and Rectal Agony, I have to agree that 3 Therapy could appear as subpar choices. I have to personally agree with you, but the good and continuous results of our good player seemed to give him at least some credit.
I told to him recently about some of his choices. I argued about the lack of the forth Therapy and the presence of Burning in his place.
And a great ".. WHY??..."  about the lone Chant.

He told that he is satisfied with 3 of them and that a tutored Chant could let him win unwinnable counter wars agaisnt Control decks or stop some hate or stop Y.Will if needed or buy the needed turn agaisnt aggro and so on. He had a lot of tutors to grab it whenever he need and he appreciate a lot his versatility. Some matchups requires the forth Therapy and it is in side.
Burning can grab strong sorceries that can break the game even if Wishing for them can easily lose him a turn.
I think that these are personal choices and 1 or 2 cards usually didn't degrade an entire deck.

WelderMUD, even if I didn't konw the list card by card... isn't really different from the one proposed by Thug&Friends in the OpenT1Forum of this site. Sometimes it is a bit inconsistent, but it has all the broken stuff that a common stacker can resolve and Welders to slowly recurr them. I didn't like it, but .. hey, it functions! Smile  


My 2 cents

MaxxMatt
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Dr. Sylvan
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2004, 12:31:28 am »

Any word on the missing decklists?
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Eastman
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« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2004, 12:40:33 am »

I've been testing quite a bit with the U/B list Matt. I like it a lot.

Time Spiral is very strong, that surprised me a bit.

I've gone
-1 Underground river
-1 Frantic Search
-1 Future Sight
+1 Mox Diamond
+1 Tinker
+1 Memory Jar


Because I found I had excess land, and that Frantic Search is still relatively weak in the deck.  Tinker/Jar are too strong not to use. The trade of Frantic Search for Tinker and Future Sight for Memory Jar seems very sensible, since arguably you'd always rather be casting the tinker/jar over search/sight. I was finding that Future Sight could stall a bit, and was rarely better than a draw 7.

 I have not lost many games that I did not feel were due to player error(and I've been losing very few games), even against the strongest of hate, with the exception of the workshop decks running trinisphere, which are very difficult to beat. The sort of lock/stock decks are not very popular and so I am not concerned that they are the decks weak point.
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MaxxMatt
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« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2004, 05:16:13 am »

@Eastman.

I'm really really really really happy that someone ( expecially you chain's keeper man )  appreciate this work. it is strong even for me, that usually play different decks.

Your changes are solid and but I would have swapped Jar/Tinker for Land/F.S. keeping the Frantic Search in the maindeck.

I would have not dropped the Frantic Search so easily.
-It helps during your Upkeep, when you are under the Tangle Wire Soft Lock and you need some specific colors from some lands and not from off color moxen.
-It "diluited" the deck
-It untaps Academy when it is in play
-It help you recover from a Bad Brainstorm with 2 dead cards on the top of the library for free.
-It a minor istance, it is another blue, restricted, "free cc card" that can be maximized by specific plays.



If your response is so positive, I think that finally some good combo decks as this could make more appeareance at your American's tourneys and I'm really happy for this "possible" improvement.


You kick a really good point when you describe your "testing winning rate". This deck usually ( and TPS lose more than this ) lose only  "himself". The common hate is easily superpassed during EoT and it usually can combo out the next turn.

Because you are right about the possible lose to 3Sphere and in test we have your same difficulties on winning against 3Sphere.dec if he goes first, I found that the "14-15 land configuration" can let you lay 2-3 lands in play frequently, letting you win more than, even me, could have ever thought with this deck. Due to the fact that you can "win" more than "lose" games  with more lands and because of the deck packs so many powerful draw-engine to superpass the possible flood, I think that it is safer to include some efficient ways not to autolose against MW.dec, that are so frequent in our metagame. And one of the most efficient, uncounterable and unstoppable way is adding more Lands ( expecially basic ones ).

I hope you'll give it a try at your next local tourney. Smile And possibly win with it! Smile




@Dr.Sylvan

OhoOhooOhhOohhh.
Did you mean This list??? Razz

Smile


//lock  15
4 smokestack
4 tangle wire
4 trinisfere
3 chalice of the void
//bestie   13
4 goblin welder
1 karn, "the gay golem"
2 triskelion
3 metalworker
3 juggernaut
//vari  5
1 wheel of fortune
2 mind's eye
1 memory jar
1 sword of fire/ice
//mana  27
1 sol ring
1 mana vault
1 mana crypt
5 moxen
1 lotus
4 M. Workshop
1 petrified field
2 ancient tomb
4 montain
2 fetchland for mountains
4 wasteland
1 strip mine

side
2 viashino heretic
2 rack & ruin
3 blood moon
3 tormod's crypt
3 reb
1 sword of fire/ice
1 masticore


This is exactly what he played.

Any other thoughts anyone?


MaxxMatt
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Se io do una moneta a te e tu una a me, ciascuno di noi ha una moneta
Se io do un'idea a te e tu una a me, ciascuno di noi ha due idee
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