UB-Mask

[Gabethebabe]

In the old forum there was a long thread about UB-Mask. The deck was never really viable, developed fever and died.

Ever since I saw Night´s Whisper I thought of using it for UB-Mask. We have an additional natural inclusion in the deck that is called Thirst for Knowledge.
It is time to kick out slow card-drawing spells (Shadowmage Infiltrator), card disadvantage spells (Vault) and cantrips (Impulse, Sleight) for some real draw spells. Maybe we could construct a stabile UB-Mask that can stand a chance in the current Meta.

With Thirst we like to have more artifacts and also a turn 1 Whisper seems quite allright, so my idea is to include all the jewelry.

After this I think we can quite easily fill out a deck-list to start with:

Creatures (4)
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

Spells (31)
4 FoW
4 Brainstorm
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Ancestral
1 Time Walk

4 Duress
4 Night´s Whisper
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 YawgWill

1 Recoil

4 Illusionary Mask

Mana (25)
7 SoLoMox
1 Mana Crypt
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground River
4 Island
1 Swamp

I think Whisper > Scrying in this deck. You don´t really care about its sorcery speed, because we don´t mind tapping out. We´re not running Drain.

Any suggestions?

[Lockdown]

You mentioned about kicking out the cantrips, but I would argue that Impulse/Serum Visions are on par, or even better than Night's Whisper.  Yes, Whisper nets you one card, but it only goes 2 cards deep.  Impulse goes 4 cards deep and Serum Visions goes up to 3 cards deep.  I would think that that extra searching would be far more helpful in a) finding Mask/Dreadnought and b) in searching for a Force of Will.  Thoughts?

[Klep]

Frankly I don't think these changes are going to do much to increase Mask's viability.  The main problem with Mask in the current environment is not its speed or reliability, as it has always been a fast and rather redundant deck.  It is instead the fact that every deck is packing significant artifact hate to deal with Slaver and the like.   For example, my Germbus sideboard has 2 Disenchants and 2 Rack and Ruins,  Hulk packs a variety of options from Oxidize to R&R as well as the maindeck Deed, and Slaver also packs multiple R&R's.  Though other decks so dependent on artifacts manage to survive all of this hate, they can do so because they run Goblin Welder, which Mask can't do.

The way to make Mask good, as I see it, is not just to enhance it's draw engine.  You need to find some way to mitigate the damage caused by artifact hate.  Perhaps there is some way Artificer's Intuition could be used to help do this?

[Toad]

The other problem with the deck is its extreme vulnerability to artifact hate and common cards like Null Rod or Damping Matrix. Your deck is focused on getting the Mask + Dreadnought combo as soon as possible on the board, and hence dies to single card strategies such as Null Rod. Furthermore, a single Oxidize or removal is often game because It will take you way to much time to find a second Dreadnought. And a lone Recoil is not a solution to all the annoyances you can face.

This deck really needs a B Plan in order to be good. See the old Masks running Phyrexian Negators and/or Nantuko Shades, for example.

[Dr. Sylvan]

Also, how is Thirst For Knowledge helpful? Does this deck typically have a problem with extra Masks or mana in hand? Because otherwise TFK is an elaborate, inefficient, subpar Impulse, unless I'm missing something obvious here.

[ELD]

I've had success with mask recently.  I was running the AK/Intuition engine.  Tinker/Jar/Mana Vault were solid as well as Time Twister.  I would think that the TFK engine would be just as solid.  You really can sacrifice the extra mana (moxen) for card advantage in a deck that needs only 3 mana for it's "combo".  The best case senario is discarding an extra mask, which i've had many times.  Night's Wisper seems very solid, but perhaps the inclusion of Jar/Twister allows for more card drawing.  

Welder seems like a possible inclusion.  I never tested it because I didn't want it to be a "welder" deck, but in the interest of being the best deck possible it's probably worth testing.  

I won't have time to test this, as I've got alot of projects going, but perhaps someone else will.  Here's a skeleton to work with.  I'd think that adding lightning greeves and a platnum angel would help.  Greaves would speed things up quite a bit, while the angel+greeves plan is atleast a back up plan.  


4x Force
4x Drain
4x Welder
4x TFK
4x Brainstorm
4x Dreadnaught
4x Mask

1x Tinker
1x Memory Jar
1x TimeTwister
1x Ancestral Recall

1x Demonic Tutor
1x Cunning Wish/echoing truth
1x YawgWill
1x Time Walk

7 SoloMoxen
3 Underground Sea
4 Volcanic Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
4 Polluted Delta
3 Islands

When all is said and done though, I really think that Mask+Dreadnaught is an awful lot to try and do just to get out a creature.  Thirst+Welder has given a way to recur some great creatures, which are IMO alot better than just a 12/12.  I'm sure this would be good enough to win small tournaments and aggro strategies.  I'm doubtful that a combo that doesn't end the game will be worth pursuing though.  

GL with the testing

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

I would really think that cantrips are better than real draw in a deck like this. I messed around with FeverMask a while back and didn't have too much success. Maybe with serum visions, the deck can be improved. The way I see it, the deck needs some way of dealing with damping matrix/null rod. Removal isn't quite as bad, but a null rod turn 2 is soooooooo game. Has anyone come up with any other creature besides dreadnought (As a backup plan)? I had mild success with grid monitor, but again, it was slow (although vs. fish and TnT it was house....if they didn't have artifact removal). Plunge seems like it would be good in a deck like this, as you can control how much life you pay. IMO, it seems only ninja mask and a more controlling version of masknought can support the combo. The format is too fast for anyone to care about a turn 1/2 dreadnought.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried messing around with Gromask? I think Bebe came up with the deck and it did have some success. Dryad would be a perfect complement to Masknought in a deck that packed multiple cantrips. Something like:

4 Dreads
4 Mask
4 Dryad
16-20 Cantrips (4 brainstorm, 4 serum vision, 4 nights whisper, etc.)
some arbitrary amount of counters

It seems promising.

[Windfall]

The only reason I had any success with my old Mono Black Mask build was because of Phyrexian Negator.  I think only running four creatures than can only be good if you have a Mask out is far too risky.  Many of the games I won against Keeper or other decks packing significant removal were because I could always play either a turn one Nought or Negator, and the Negators were often better because they were immune to Artifact removal and it took longer to Keg/Deed them away.  Often, I wanted even more than 8 creatures.  Dryad would be good but I think Negtor is better and allows you to stay away from playing Green too.

Secondly, I used to run 4x Unmask in my build, and I think that with only 4 Duress you're making yourself even more vulnerable to hate and countermagic.  Unmask was one of the best cards in MonoB Mask because it allowed you to safely drop threats and combo pieces without worrying about Force of Will or Swords/Rack and Ruin, etc.

Adding a bunch of draw could indeed help the deck simply because it enters top deck mode so fast.  However, I don't think you can afford to give up disruption/creatures for card draw, which you're trying to do.  Adding a bunch of draw makes you more of a control player, where all you really want to do is drop a huge creature turn 1-2 and win the game as fast as possible with it.

Having little to no draw and using Artifacts to win are just two of the problem Mask decks face.  In addition, it is using 8 deck slots to play one 12/12 creature.  Think about Hulk; it uses 3 slots to play its winning creature and it can be bigger than 12/12 on it's own.  That leaves 5 slots open for more spells, and I think that's what Mask needs...

     ~Mark B.

[Wollblad]

Just suppose for a moment that you actually have a Mask or a Nought to spare in your hand and play Thirst discarding this card. Then suppose your opponent plays a Welder. The result is that you cannot win any more. Thus, in a meta game with so much Welders, Thirst is devastating for your combo. The deck can go broken, but with all artifact hate out there, you will in general need to play very controllish and you have too few counters for that. It is too easy for a 'you cannot win any more' threat like Null Rod or Welder to slip through.

A friend of mine has developed an interesting version of the old Angry Hermite deck from extended. The Hermite combo itself prooved too unstable for type one, but since the combo demands large creatures, for example Dreadnoughts, you will have two very different combos based on your Noughts. In this deck we are currently testing Thirst, not so much to gain cards, as a way to improve the hand and discard things like Sutured Ghoul and Dragon Breath. It is a different route to take to get a backup plan instead of including creatures that can be played without the Mask.

[Toad]

That may be stupid, but considering this is a 2-card combo deck that runs Thirst for Knowledge with only a few artifacts that are worth discarding, wouldn't [card]Serum Powder[/card] be good here?

 

[Kowal]

I guess what I really want to know and this thread hasn't addressed...

Why would you run a deck that focuses so hard on drawing cards without running better card drawers and psychatogs?

Alternately, why would you run Thirst for Knowledge and not things that win you the game when you pay four and sacrifice them?

A 12/12 seems pretty inferior to a lethal trampling psychatog or a slave lock.  Both of those are much more resiliant to say, Swords to Plowshares.

[Gabethebabe]

OK.

Anyone interested in buying 4 UNL Masks?

[bebe]

out of curiosity, has anyone tried messing around with Gromask? I think Bebe came up with the deck and it did have some success. Dryad would be a perfect complement to Masknought in a deck that packed multiple cantrips. Something like:

I had great success with gromask and put it aside when Gush was restricted. I also became rather bored with the deck. On the upside, Cunning Wish was a staple and with a b/u/g base it is easy enough to mdeal with Rods and hosers along with your counters. I would have to seriously look at the deck again. My feeling is it might be viable with Night's Whisper replacing the Gushes.
It was designed to hose aggro and control though. When Long, Dragon and WMud became popular the deck was no longer a meta choice.

For reference... the original deck

Hairy Mask

mana
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
Island
Mox Emerald
Mox Sapphire
Mox Jet
Sol Ring
Black Lotus
LoA

counters
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Voidmage Prodigy

utility
Berserk
Regrowth
Fastbond

draw
2 Cunning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Gush
4 Sleight of Hand
Merchant Scroll
Mystical Tutor
Time Walk
Ancestral Recall
Demonic Tutor

4 Illusionary Mask
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Quirion Dryad

sideboard: 15
2 Gilded Drake
2 Annul
2 Naturalize
2 Smother
Crumble
Dominate
BeB
Ebony Charm
Submerge
FoF
Berserk

That sideboard was before Oxidize became available. Note that a few new cards could be added. Sleight replaced by the new blue Scry, Whispers replacing Gush, etc. I think there might be room for some experimentation. It will have to be done by someone else though as I sold my Masks.  

[Gabethebabe]

Interesting deck, though everbody will probably jump on it saying that it is better to play Suck-a-Tog.

I can´t help but dislike the Voidmages in the deck (in any deck). Also the Berserk maindeck would not quickly be my choice (well, I haven´t got any choice, I only have 1 Berserk and in the SB it would be)

[bebe]

everbody will probably jump on it saying that it is better to play Suck-a-Tog.

It probably is. Non-the-less this deck can combo out pretty fast. Last time I played it I had three Dreads on the table, and a Voidmage under the Mask against Arend (specialk) turn three with FoW in hand.  But times have changed.

[Grand Inquisitor]

I'm really hoping its a typo, but where's the yawgmoth's will?  The only match I played against this build, I lost because of a topdecked Yawgwill, which is obviously nuts with Gush and Fastbond.  The fact that you can't play 'naughts out of the yard is inconsequential.