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Author Topic: [Help] 5d Article in progress  (Read 2047 times)
TheFram
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« on: May 23, 2004, 11:01:03 am »

I'm in the process of writing a vintage review of Fifth Dawn for SCG. I really don't want to include too many cards in the article, so I came up for the following criteria for inclusion.

I will NOT include cards that meet the following:

1) The card costs more than 5 and is not instantly game winning or an artifact.
2) The card costs more than one of either green, white, or red mana.
There are exceptions to this if the effect is sufficiently powerful (think True Believer or Roar of Reclamation) or the card has a niche in revitalizing a mono-colored deck (think Slith Firewalker).
3) The card is obviously worse than another card already vintage legal.
4) The card is emblematic of a strategy that has no place in vintage (life gain, creature pump, so on)


In this vein, i would like to gauge the reactions of the posters here. Can anyone think of a card in 5d that should be mentioned in a Type 1 centric review of the set that would be excluded by these criteria?

A secondary question would be: what cards are catching people's eyes in 5d?

Thanks in advance for all the help, last time I did this i made some mistakes (I left off Ravager!). I would really like to make this review complete.

-Avi Flamholz

***EDIT***
Forgot the 5th Criteria
5) If the card has combo potential ignore criteria 2-4 (1 still matters)
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Dr. Sylvan
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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2004, 11:11:55 am »

As to what's catching peoples' eyes: http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17425

Honestly, most of the cards are just obviously overcosted for Type One. I expect this set to have considerably lower utility for us than the last three have.
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johnstown713
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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2004, 12:07:47 pm »

The only nice type one card i can think of that isn't overcosted is Night's Whispers.  Sorry if this doesn't meet your criteria.

Night's Whisper
1B
Sorcery
You draw two cards and lose two life.
Uncommon
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Sawse
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2004, 12:34:58 pm »

Magma Jet
1R Instant
Magma Jet deals 2 damage to target creature or player
Scry 2

I think this *may* see play in U/r fish alongside in Fire/Ice for consistency and utility against GAT (kill early dryad), the mirror, FCG, as well as other decks. This needs to be looked at not for the 2 damage for removal, but for the Scry 2 for improving consistency.
In comparison, Fire/Ice is the same mana cost, but it is far more versatile. Magma Jet lets to rearrange the top of your library or just scrap the cards in general, for the same damage as Fire but it cannot be divided up.
I have not been looking at reviews for many 5D cards, so I do not know if the Scry abilitiy has been hyped much, but it is definately a good addition to diversify the game up.
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walkingdude
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2004, 04:09:11 pm »

Krark Clan Iron works, you may have this already, but I figured I’d mention it. If you have a mox it pays for itself, with two moxen on the table or a mox and a tapped vault you gain 2 mana. It’s possible it might be playable in decks that need a bunch of colorless mana fast but don’t require staying power, like belcher.
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2004, 04:38:51 pm »

I think possessed portal deserves at least an honorable mention.  This card is a one card lock, that probably requires a deck built around it.  It has obvious synergy with the core of workshop+welder+thirst for knowledge, I believe it will see play, as a tier 2 archetype or a tier one prison is yet to be seen.
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TheFram
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2004, 09:19:55 pm »

Let me put it this way.

When I apply these criteria (some of them are slightly subjective such as "powerful enough effect") to the spoiler currently at mtgnews.com, the following cards are the ones left on. (With reasoning)

White
Auriok Salvagers
*Leonin Squire
Roar of Reclamation
*Skyhunter Skirmisher
Steelshapers Gift

Blue
*Acquire
Artificer's Intuition
Condescend
*Eyes of the Watcher
Serum Visions

Black
*Blind Creeper
*Desecration Elemental
Devour in Shadow
Ebon Drake
*Fleshgrafter
Night's Whisper
Plunge into Darkness

Red
Magma Jet

Green
*Channel the Suns
Eternal Whitness
Joiner Adept
*Rite of Passage
Tel-Jilad Justice

Artifact
*Anodet Lurker
*Arcbound Wanderer
*Clock of Omens
*Composite Golem
Crucible of Worlds
*Door to Nothingness
Engineered Explosives
Eon Hub
*Etched Oracle
*Krark-Clan Ironworks
*Mycosynth Golem
Possessed Portal
Razormane Masticore
*Solarion
*Staff of Domination
*Summoners Egg
Synod Centurion
Vedalken Orrey

* Denotes cards that I am fairly certain will not see vintage play, but make my list with the given criteria.

I would like to be able to provide the reader with my criteria for inclusion up front to minimize complaints like "YOU LEFT OFF xCARDx, IT'S SUPER AWESOME!!!!11!!1"

These criteria also would establish (for the future) what is and is not playable in vintage.

So, a rearticulation of my above question:

1) Am I missing any important cards on the list above?
2) How can I set forth these criteria so as to minimize the need for listing cards like Composite Golem or Rite of Passage? Do I need more criteria for artifacts? How do I set forth these criteria such that they explain block specific things (ie: how sunburst will not be good in vintage)


Thanks
-Avi Flamholz
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Suckamouf37
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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2004, 10:53:26 pm »

Relentless Rats deserves a mention.

Some people might also wonder why Cosmic Larva and Veldalken Shackles aren't on, even though niether of them will see much play.
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TheFram
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2004, 11:06:07 pm »

Why does Rats merit mention? Is rat beatdown a viable vintage strategy?

@cosmic larva

Its strictly worse than blistering firecat in all situations I can think of (mono red does not run alot of land anyway), and it costs double red, which precludes it from consideration in general.

@Vedalken Shackles

Good point, will include.
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AIcOPed
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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2004, 11:19:13 pm »

Staff of domination and Crucible of worlds are worth looking at.
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but then again I think rain is wet, so who am I to judge?
Dr. Sylvan
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« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2004, 11:41:40 pm »

Quote
Staff of domination

No. I hate to be dismissive, but no. (See further: http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=289916#289916)
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