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Author Topic: Second Sunrise Affinity [Deck]  (Read 2491 times)
Ben Kossman
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« on: May 17, 2004, 05:27:16 pm »

I've been testing this in it's type2 form and it's pretty crazy. A lot of times
I kill the other guy without even having to attack. Second Sunrise is eerily
similar to Yawgmoth's Will with a Ravager or Tog in play. It sounds like
I'm exagerrating but check out the list thouroughly before passing Judgement...

Kill:20
4 Ravager
4 Atog
4 Disciple
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Frogmite

Brokenness:14
3 Second Sunrise
3 Thoughtcast
4 Skullclamp
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Timewalk
1 Ancestrall

Mana Base:20
4 Barbed Sextant
4 Glimmervoid
4 Ancient Den
3 Seat of the Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
1 Academy
5 Moxen
1 Lotus
1 Sol Ring

I plan on a third turn kill most games if I draw Disciple/Tog/Ravager anyway and Second Sunrise basically guarantees it. Second Sunrise
is insanely broken and should be restricted in a hurry once they realize
it doubles the number of Permanents you control...
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Nantuko Rice
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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2004, 05:32:17 pm »

Why Barbed Sextant? Why not Chromatic Sphere?

Mana Crypt? Mana Vault?

Your only skullclamp target appears to be a disciple, unless you sac your stuff to atog/ravager.

Second Sunrise is not insanely broken and will not get restricted. It probably is broken in some decks and just waiting to get broken. But it's a fairly costed spell at 3cc.

You play a third turn kill most of the times in your testing, what decks have you been testing against? Looks like any number of hate cards will leave you dead, damping matrix, null rod. Both commonly played at the moment.
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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2004, 06:06:53 pm »

This deck loses to Null Rod-almost EVERY mana source is screwed over.

You need to get a 3cc spell through without disruption.

Exactly what decks does this beat?  Combo is faster and gets to goldfish.  All control decks have Manadrain.  All blue decks have Force of Will to stop second sunrise.  Null Rod beats the deck. So what good matchups does this deck have?  What have you tested against?
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2004, 01:22:07 am »

Have you tested this deck?I think that it will get mana-screwed quite often. 4 glimmervoids is also quite a bad option. ONe more artifact land should be a better choice.
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2004, 02:52:43 am »

Quote
Second Sunrise is insanely broken and should be restricted in a hurry once they realize it doubles the number of Permanents you control...


In general, it is accepted practice to provide more detailed information than telling us that your deck is so overpowering that it requires modifications to the restricted list. Such bold statements are a way to make it likely that your post becomes locked. Providing an account of how your deck does in various matchups is what many consider to be a better approach.

Having sacrificed all of your artifacts to your Atog, should your Sunrise fail to resolve, then you will find it difficult to recover. Your "combo" is rather susceptible to control. And if you are going to run a combo deck which is easily disrupted, there are better, more consistent, and quicker options.

All in all, Sunrise seems to force you to put all of your eggs into one basket.

That said, I'll at least give you props for playing Atogs.
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2004, 09:17:51 am »

Untested deck with little else behind it. Moved.[/color]
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« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2004, 10:10:18 am »

Quote from: The Atog Lord

Having sacrificed all of your artifacts to your Atog, should your Sunrise fail to resolve, then you will find it difficult to recover.


Totally agreed. If you can fix this problem, however, it's certainly an interesting combo. If anything, it looks fun to pull off in some casual T1 someday.
However, in T2, it might have more potential.
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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2004, 01:40:41 pm »

this idea doesnt work for one reason

if you depend upon one card and u dont get it, you are screwed

its better to just make a focused affinity build
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« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2004, 01:12:22 am »

Quote from: Username?
this idea doesnt work for one reason

if you depend upon one card and u dont get it, you are screwed

its better to just make a focused affinity build


This deck doesnt depend on one card, it just contains one card which allows you to win more and seal your  win away and alternately. In fact i don;t hear you saying that about tog, which is completely depended on one card. Focused affinity

Actaully i played a secound sunrise deck in regionials a couple of week back and if it wasn;t for a dumb mistake in counting when i was exhuasted i would of top 8 out of 637 players 16 hours of spent in past times, but this is what i piloted for reference.

Bounce?
by Jason Clark

Beats
x4 arcbound ravanger
x4 arcbound worker
x4 myr enforcer
x4 frogmite
x3 ornipother <- all this does is give ravanger flying

Draw
x4 skull clamp
x3 thoughcast
x4 aetherspell bomb

Tech
x4 leonin elder <- MVP over and over again.
x3 displice of the vault
x2 secound sunrise
 
Mana
x3 taliman of impluse
x4 city of brass
x4 anciet den
x4 seat of synod
x4 vault whisper
x2 blinkmouth nexus

SB
x3 exalated angels
x4 mana leak
x1 secound sunrise
x3 echoing turth
x1 discplice of the valut
x3 gensis chamber

I did after alot of play testing for type 2 format only, that secound sunrise would be vaible beucase lack of "Hard Counter" There is simply Voidmage Prodigity and Vex (which is never runned due to how it crap out). In the format bouncing an opposing ravanger, which moves all counters to elsewhere or simply disapeer is king, and then secound sunrising allowing you to repeat the process, and with my elder gaining amazing life gain in the enviroment allowed me to smack down 6 out of 11 ravangers deck i faced that day with ease. Becuase TYPE 2 DECKS are so few and only 3 deck are competitive you can run a such deck. beucase of SECOUND SUNRISE it was a TYPE TWO TIME WALK, in hte format, where everything comes back into play UNTAPPED, and allowing you to do it all again. So since i am a type one player i made my deck unlike every other ravanger deck out and added to what i consider type one deck designs, of card advantage and redunecy and many layers of threats. Since the only really mass removal in type on is balance, secound sunrise hardly allows you to deal with oppents threats, but since ravanger does struggle with monowhite control, placing in bomb in this format only of secound sunrise from a vengance or wrath changes board positition once again. How do are you going to make this effective here i have no idea. Those would be the only reason why you would play Secound Sunrise, it just doesn;t find a home in Ravanger decks in type one YET, nor a strong choice for any other deck due to white unpowered colour.

Glimmer void is just plain horrid in the meta. In type two with 12 post and mono red land d attacking your manabase and pryclasm or fireballing glimmer void just tends to be left alone. even a secound turn oxide just blows up the land, this is type one where an oppent can blow up your other artifacts and you lose yet another land just for not meeting the requirements. City of brass is just a superior choice.

I also built my friend ravanger deck, and played with affinity with oversold cemetry sword of fire and ice, solab goblin tinker, and he also did perform as well as i did. even though you can say sure ravanger is hte best deck and bound to get finishes up there, every other builds were tuned to smash face. How many type 2 deck have come from that format and performed well in vintage, several, Tog and Madness come to mind, becuase they both had easy drawing enginies. Ravanger does not, skullclamp is just so eaten alive with null rods that it is hated out. Ravanger is also going to take the spash damage that mask nought takes also, artifact hate to due to workshop based decks.

And as other menitioned Null rod damping matrix gets you good, since the latter is the only threat in type 2, that is where bounecing comes in, echoing turth, and my counters mana leaks, therefore type one staples are needed.

Black and Blue spashing white for the same theme would be the main colour unlike my type two build where it is Blue and White spashing black. So Brainstorms, Force of the wills, workshop, thirst for knowledge, restricted goodness needed to be addeded to provide any impact, but one problem with ravanger is that it alsmost plays just like sligh does, becuase thier tempo is the same, it has no early game, and suffer even disruption that Suicide black carries.

so after all that let me ask you this why play ravanger affinity in type one? only one things comes to mind, surpise, and other surpise decks are zoo, and panderburst, which for a good reason are not played anymore. I couldn;t even classify Affinity as a rogue deck.

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Klep
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2004, 02:38:26 am »

Quote from: mask
This deck doesnt depend on one card, it just contains one card which allows you to win more and seal your  win away and alternately. In fact i don;t hear you saying that about tog, which is completely depended on one card. Focused affinity

The difference is that Tog actually has disruption, and can protect it's[/color] critical card, while you can't.  Tog runs 4 Force, 4 Drain, multiple Duresses, and a shit-ton more draw than your deck, which combine to make it a trivial matter for Tog to ensure that it's kill stays on the table.  You, on the other hand, fear Swords to Plowshares like nobody's business.

The rest of your post seems to be telling us how good this strategy is in Type 2 and how it differs from this Type 1 build.  Guess what: we don't care.  This is a Type 1 forum and this deck doesn't show any signs of being competitive in this format, particularly when you haven't done any testing in Type 1 and are making claims that a 3cc spell with double white in the casting cost is terribly broken and needs to be restricted.

You conclude by saying that the only reason to play Ravager in Type 1 is the surprise value, and that surprise decks suck.  If this is the case, why did you create this thread?

Lastly, your spelling and grammar suck.  Work on it.

If you're going to get all preachy, at least have the decency to be yourself correct.[/color]
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2004, 10:00:14 pm »

Quote from: Klep
Quote from: mask
This deck doesnt depend on one card, it just contains one card which allows you to win more and seal your  win away and alternately. In fact i don;t hear you saying that about tog, which is completely depended on one card. Focused affinity

The difference is that Tog actually has disruption, and can protect it's[/color] critical card, while you can't.  Tog runs 4 Force, 4 Drain, multiple Duresses, and a shit-ton more draw than your deck, which combine to make it a trivial matter for Tog to ensure that it's kill stays on the table.  You, on the other hand, fear Swords to Plowshares like nobody's business.

The rest of your post seems to be telling us how good this strategy is in Type 2 and how it differs from this Type 1 build.  Guess what: we don't care.  This is a Type 1 forum and this deck doesn't show any signs of being competitive in this format, particularly when you haven't done any testing in Type 1 and are making claims that a 3cc spell with double white in the casting cost is terribly broken and needs to be restricted.

You conclude by saying that the only reason to play Ravager in Type 1 is the surprise value, and that surprise decks suck.  If this is the case, why did you create this thread?

Lastly, your spelling and grammar suck.  Work on it.

If you're going to get all preachy, at least have the decency to be yourself correct.[/color]


Correct as you may be, don't write in red. That's for the mods.

I AM a mod. How do you think I edited his post?
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Robert the Swordsman
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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2004, 10:51:40 pm »

Excuse me for saying this, but that is not correct.

"Its" without the apostraphe is the possessive form of the term, whereas "it's", apostraphe included, is the conjuction of the words "it" and "is."

EDIT: I apologize for the off-topic comment.

In regards to the deck, what everyone is saying is rather legitimate; you don't really have any defense mechanisms, so if your key card is countered or disrupted in some fashion, you could have an extremely difficult time recovering.

In any case, good luck.
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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2004, 08:26:03 pm »

Quote from: Klep
Quote from: mask
This deck doesnt depend on one card, it just contains one card which allows you to win more and seal your  win away and alternately. In fact i don;t hear you saying that about tog, which is completely depended on one card. Focused affinity

The difference is that Tog actually has disruption, and can protect it's[/color] critical card, while you can't.  Tog runs 4 Force, 4 Drain, multiple Duresses, and a shit-ton more draw than your deck, which combine to make it a trivial matter for Tog to ensure that it's kill stays on the table.  You, on the other hand, fear Swords to Plowshares like nobody's business.

The rest of your post seems to be telling us how good this strategy is in Type 2 and how it differs from this Type 1 build.  Guess what: we don't care.  This is a Type 1 forum and this deck doesn't show any signs of being competitive in this format, particularly when you haven't done any testing in Type 1 and are making claims that a 3cc spell with double white in the casting cost is terribly broken and needs to be restricted.

You conclude by saying that the only reason to play Ravager in Type 1 is the surprise value, and that surprise decks suck.  If this is the case, why did you create this thread?

Lastly, your spelling and grammar suck.  Work on it.

If you're going to get all preachy, at least have the decency to be yourself correct.[/color]


my point still stands on tog, if they smack you around with rootwater theif three time against standard tog guess what, no more tog. does it matter if it has distrupution maybe, but the simple fact is it still depends on one card alone. Meddling mage both deed and tog, or you fail to resolve even one tog, or fail to actaully take your oppents life away. TOG IS ABOUT TOG and that is it, everything else is just snygergy with the deck and to protect the one card combo.

if you actaully read, i exclaimed in many cases how secound sunrise is garbage in type one, and also menitioned the reasoning why it was in ravanger affinity in hte first place. but excuse me all you do is look at grammer and not at thoughs. so shrugs i am the one getting left out. and yes i have done plenty of testing in type one with ravanger and it just simply sucks i menitioned what cards just shut it down completey where the player has to concede ect, but i guess you are so caught up in the fact that i can post a type two deck explain the reasoning for all the cards, and then go around and say how uselessly so many of cards in the deck for type one just doesn;t belong. forget it i don;t have time to waste on people who don;t listen.
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Moxlotus
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2004, 09:55:04 pm »

Nobody on this board or whole website cares about T2.  This is a type 1 website devoted solely to Type 1.  Stick to only Type 1 talk.
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