[article] blood and iron

[jpmeyer]

My disclaimer for this article is that not only is building new decks in Type 1 freaking hard, but building combo decks are even harder because the benchmark is ridiculously high. You've got Draw-7 and Belcher, which both have a fair number of potential turn 1 kills if you want to go for speed, and if you want to go with more mid-game power, you have Dragon and its ability to draw three extra cards per turn. That said, I'm treating this more like an experiment and I'm giving it my best shot.

[Hi-Val]

I found it interesting that you didn't even consider putting it into something akin to Workshop Slavery. I've been playing around and found that you can use it to crank out fast Colossi or use Myr Incubator (sekrit T2 tech!) to make swarms to attack or sacrifice for more manas.

However, Ironworks decks also face the problem that Slavery does, being that they can turn into losestonullrod.dec pretty quickly.

[Tempe]

It doesn't seem like many new conclusions were made, but it was still a good read and article. I have had a deck a few cards off yours for over a about a week and a half. I haven't really been working on it because I found it to be too vulnerable, as with most new combo decks, to Force of Will and Null Rod, one of which is in almost every viable deck.

Some suggestions include scrapping lands for more artifact mana ([card]Talisman of Dominance[/card]?), [card]Helm of Awakening[/card] (infinite mana with 2x Retriever and Ironworks), [card]Myr Incubator[/card], and [card]Goblin Charbelcher[/card]. I also used Artifact Lands and [card]Thoughtcast[/card].

--Tempe

[Marton]

I was quite surprised to see your first decklist (the draw-7 deck) in your article. Merely a few hours before your article was posted, I had posted a similar decklist in theses forums. My original build sure isn't as good as yours, but however it did allow me to view your decklist from a different angle. First I would point out that your draw-7 deck has 61 cards. I have also noticed in my build that krark-clan ironworks cannot be played in much more than 1x multiple, because it is both hard to cast, and that like you noted the colorless mana isn't all that usefull. I started my build based on the original Long deck, and adding some 5th dawn cards to it. I tried playing with conjurer's bauble, with mixed success. I have looked back at my decklist following your article, and came basically to the conclusions that you should cut 2x krark-clan ironworks in your deck, going down to 1. I propose that the cutted cards be replaced with 1x retract. I would not replace the 2nd cut card, because I want the decklist to be 60 cards. I will quote myself from my original thread:


"I personally prefer to play duress instead of force of will. The reasoning behind it is that force of will is almost impossible to hardcast in this deck, and also duress can be used to add up storm counts. I can understand that it is playable with all the draw-7s, but I am left unsure that another blue card can be relied on to be there.

I am a bit unsure about the number of diminishing returns. Removing yawgmoth's will from the game can be very costly. I would perhaps go down to 2x diminishing returns. I would probably replace it with retract, underground sea, gemstone mine, burning wish, cunning wish, force of will or xantid swarm. Mostly, the wishes could be there to take care of null rods should they enter play. The force of will/xantid swarms are counter-stifle tech."


While it is true that the krark-clan ironworks colorless mana is not all that useful, it is pretty interesting to have one in play just before you play yawgmoth's will.

Other than that, good decklist, it sure beats the crap out of my original decklist

[yodoblec]

Very nice article. What you said about it not comboing out fast enough is alright, but it seems this deck would act a lot like FCG. It can just go aggro with it's creatures or it can go combo. If it doesn't play out like that please let me know.

[Bulls on Parade]

A well-timed, informative piece, I was very glad to see this article.

I, like others, have been working on the Ironworks/Clamp deck for a week or so now. However, since the very first list I threw together, I've been maindecking 3 Welders- they seemed like an auto-include to me. You obviously addressed this point yourself, with  "I built this deck for a pure goldfish", but I bring it up now just to ask what you'd cut from your list for the Welders.

For reference, the list I've been testing is so close to the one you presented in the article, it's merely
-1 Myr Moonvessel
-1 Yawgmoth's Will
-1 Ancestral Recall
-1 Time Walk
-1 Tinker
-1 Memory Jar
+3 Goblin Welder
+3 Frogmite

In retrospect, I can see that thing happened where I come up with what I think is a cool, viable, and most importantly innovative deck, and then not long after find out a more esteemed deck designer has come up with a list that's strictly better. For that, props to you for all 3 lists and the article.

[Liam]

I started working on JP's last list when the article came out, my new list is quite different now.  It still seems like a toy to me in playtesting (lots of cool synergies but no real "I win" combos) but it's getting better.  Myr Retriever really increases your resilience to Force of Will, however the smart opponent will counter Disciple of the Vault, without which winning is very clumsy (to the point where I now run 2 maindeck x-burn spells).

However, once the draw engine starts in proper, it's very hard to lose.  As a matter of fact, last game I played I got 2x clamp and an ironworks online turn 3, at which point I proceeded to draw my ENTIRE DECK, abuse yawgwill, and torch for the kill with 3 non-acadamy lands in play (I had over 70 mana, though I didn't use it all in case I needed to fire off the second torch after the first being countered).  That's impressive considering I started drawing with 2 available mana.

The arcbound ravagers don't fit the deck.  While they provide a second win condition outside of disciples, they're most often used to fuel the clamp, which is inefficient.  I feel thoughtcasts are a better inclusion, as they aren't dependant on clamp to dig through your deck.  The x-burn is a faster alternate win condition with less incidental inconveniences (blockers ,summoning sickness etc).  Because I don't have ravagers, the ornithopters are out in favor of shield sphere (even though thoptor can get clamped and swing for one )

Mind's Desire screams out for a slot here.  When you're generating mana, drawing cards, and dropping mana artifacts on the table, this thing is a beast.  Sometimes its dead, but when you're starting to fizzle, flipping over 8 cards almost always gaurantees you win right then (especially when you flip yawgwill, play the 6 nonland cards, drop artifacts out of your graveyard, and desire again for like 20).

Seat of the Synod > Ancient Tomb.  You need the coloured mana, and they can be fed to the ironworks.

I couldn't resist running mind twist.  When you're throwing around large amounts of off-colour/colourless mana, why would you NOT want it?



I really want to run shattering pulse.  Null rod, damping matrix, trinisphere, chalice for 1, random counter-imbued iscochron scepters all ruin my day.  I also want critter kill, as a quick fatty, goblin welder, or enemy disciple is fear.  I feel the correct way to handle this is cunning wish, but I don't know what to cut .  Despite all these vulnerablities, the real unfortunate thing is the deck requires both clamp AND ironworks in play to function.

Here's my decklist
// Lands
    4 Glimmervoid
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    1 Tolarian Academy
    4 Seat of the Synod

// Creatures
    4 Disciple of the Vault
    4 Myr Retriever
    4 Phyrexian Walker
    4 Shield Sphere

// Spells
    1 Tinker
    1 Time Walk
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Mind's Desire
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Memory Jar
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Mind Twist
    4 Thoughtcast
    1 Mox Ruby
    4 Krark-Clan Ironworks
    4 Skullclamp
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mana Crypt
    2 Kaervek's Torch

[Marton]

You might want to watch out with this deck, as it scoops to null rod. The problem is that you do not pack any counterspell/disruption (other than mind twist). As soon as your opponent counters your krark-clan ironworks, or render them useless, you scoop. I would rather play duress in the slots of thoughtcast for added security.